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loading 243AI

jwp6114

jwp6114

Gunny Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
Mar 8, 2008
1,035
5
Newnan, GA
#1
Did some searching and found plenty of info on how well the 105-115 bullets do, but i have a couple specific questions...

1, i will be shooting a factory Rem varmint 26" 9.25 twist barrel, will 105's (a-max) stabalize in the AI cartridge with the extra velocity,

2, are there any extra steps needed other than fire forming brass, I.E. neck turning ect... i will be using reading s type f/l dies for 40 degree shoulder...

3, where is a good place to start with the neck bushings for various manufactures brass to include: Lapua, Hornady, Winchester, Remington... looking for around .002 neck tention

4, I am of the beleife that the 87gr v-max's will preform best as a medium range 100-400 varmint load... any thoughts...

Thanks in advance and sorry for so long winded...
 
#2
Re: loading 243AI

I run a 270 bushing. The 105 amax should work in your barrel which I believe is a 9.125 twist. I load 47gr of 4831SC in mine IN FORMED Lapua brass. Don't worry about turning the necks. Reduce your charge and form your brass while you shoot or do the cream of wheat method.
 
#3
Re: loading 243AI

forgot to mention, i would like to use Varget if posible, i know there are more suited powders but i already use varget in .308 and have a cabnet full of about 8 different types of powders already... it never ends...
 
#9
Re: loading 243AI

if you guys that are shelling out data could give me a little more info about what velocities and charge your using along with barrel info that would help... Theres a hodge-podge of data here...

retumbo is a bit slower burning than H4350, wich woould make sence if your running a 30" barrel...

Published data shows Varget runs faster than H414 (which also requires a magnum primer) with sub 100gn bullets...

@ JCH: that makes sense...

@ goin'hot: whats your barrel length...what kind of velocity are you seeing...

I would like to stay away from needing a magnum primer...

(I know sounds picky)
 
#11
Re: loading 243AI

27" barrel. 107 SMK's at 3180 fps. I moved away from the Amax bullets when I started getting "fliers" at distance. I tried A BUNCH of powders and found 4831SC to give me the results I wanted.
 
#13
Re: loading 243AI

I have a straight 243 and the previous barrel liked 43.5gr of IMR-4350 with 107 SMKs, 87gr Vmax, and 105gr Amax. Have a 32" barrel now working up a load with Moly coated Nosler 105's. 45gr of IMR-4350 really shot well didn't have pressure signs but I want to double check to make sure.
 
#14
Re: loading 243AI

My .243AI has a barrel with 1:10 twist so I'm limited to about 90 grains max on bullet weight for stabilization purposes. I shoot the Berger 88 grain flat base low drag with H414, CCI BR2 primers. Velocity is 3150 fps and it has taken Antelope out to 580 yards. One note on case prep for the AI chamberings. I try to leave my cases as long as possible prior to fire forming. Once fire formed I will trim all cases to a uniform length.
 
#15
Re: loading 243AI

i suppose more velocity doesnt always = more accuracy... but i want to see an 87gn V-max hit a prarie dog at about 3500fps... me and a friend are building them as intermediate range varmint guns, not long range target guns, but we will see how the 105 A-max works for target shooting with our barrels (factory Rem 26" varmint barrels rechambered) another friend told me that the lighter 6mm bullets around 4000-4100 fps just rip'em open... (prarie dogs are not the only varmint we will shoot)
 
#16
Re: loading 243AI

Went pdog hunting twice 04 and 05. Was alot of fun. I found that anything inside 200yds will rip them open outside of that the rounds I was using (60gr Vmax, 75gr Amax in 223 and 125TNT and 155 Amax in 308) didn't produce the red mist vapor cloud. 87gr Vmax on Groundhogs is an impressive sight it will vaporize the pdogs. Have fun.
 
#18
Re: loading 243AI

Good luck on the varget, as said above, it may work well with lighter bullets, but not the heavy ones. Have tried it many, many times.
As far as the 105 amax's in your 9 twist goin as fast as you'd like, you may be alright but you may also see some puffs of smoke about 60 yards downrange.
I shoot alot of Retumbo and H4350 in my ackley's. Mostly with 115's and 105's in 7.5" and 8" twist barrels.
 
#19
Re: loading 243AI

what do you mean pufs of smoke???

after reading some more into powders i think i will try a pound of the H4350 to start with for the 105's, but i am going to try varget with the 87gn v-max and lighter...

I realy apreciate everyone's insight and am glad that such a forum exists, i have been away from the forum for a while and have noticed many positive attitude changes in many areas of the forum.
 
#20
Re: loading 243AI

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JWP6114</div><div class="ubbcode-body">what do you mean pufs of smoke???</div></div>

You won't run into this problem with a 9.125 twist barrel. What he's refering to is the old Amax bullets used to have thin jackets. If you over spun them in your barrel, the thin jacket and the high rotational forces would peel the bullets apart and they would only make it a short while before they would blow up. I've seen it many times and it's why I stopped shooting the Amax bullets. They have come out with their AMP jackets which was supposed to get rid of the issue.
 
#21
Re: loading 243AI

Yea, I hear more and more often about people pushin light bullets over 4000fps so I figure manufactures have started designing bullets that will take the abuse.
 
#22
Re: loading 243AI

The amount of storage area you have available is not a good reason for using a propellent that you already have on hand. Especially with a performance number such as the 243AI. This chambering deserves intelligent consideration. I think it is similar to reinventing the wheel, select those powders that yield the highest velocities with the best accuracy, and search all available resources for the answers. Curious; how or why did you punch a factory barrel to Improved?

To answer the question; I would try H414 for that range of bullet weight. H4831 is another, 4350, historically is a good choice. Another bullet to consider is the 70 gr. Nosler BT. Hornady makes a 80 gr. pistol bullet intended for Wichita type rigs, (used to?) that really does the red mist on PD's. Would it hold together at your velocities? Don't know. But, I know the 70Nosler can handle the speed. BB
 
#23
Re: loading 243AI

Well the idea started out wanting to do a varmint cartridge with more energy than 5.56 but faster than the .308, (already have both) bought a factory Rem 700 varmint SPS .243 26" NEW for 450 OTD, why would I pitch the factory pipe... Then you ask what's wrong with .243 standard... Well nothing really, anyone with any knowledge of Remington rifles know they have prety long throats, I wanted to shorten the throat anyway, why not improve it at the same time... Same price from gun smith. The rifle was cheap, gunsmiths work is very affordable...

I was just bitching a little about the fact that I stock about 9 different powders already and the hobby makes it seem never ending...

And trust me, I never claimed to be Intlegent.
 
#24
Re: loading 243AI

And, I never said anything about the 243Win. I happen to own both, however so bring a little experience to the table.

I have a personal objection to punching a factory barrel, unless you already know that it is comparable in accuracy to a premium barrel. Most o the time, the increase in capacity, versus the decrease in barrel length will cancel each other, or if not, you spent your money for nothing.

Example, I have a 700LVSF originally chambered in 223Rem and had it converted to 223Ackley, having never fired a shot. The net gain is about 50fps with a 55 grain VMax, based on what is printed on the Varget label. The cost including the Sako extractor was about $450. You never know, but I am of the opinion that a couple hundred dollars more would have been worth it, and I already knew better. Live and learn. BB

PS Intelligence and making an intelligent, informed decision are two different things.
 
#25
Re: loading 243AI

Another example of not knowing what you are getting/buying. I have a 22/243Midd that shoots 62 grain Bergers into tight little groups @3800fps. I also own a 22-250Ackley that uses a different powder and a 65 grain Berger and the MV is 3925fps. With about 4½ grains less capacity, but the barrel is a little longer. (edit: 1½") Both are 6 groove Hart. It does not add up, does it? BB
 
#26
Re: loading 243AI

is it not true that with the AI shoulder, brass and thoat ware can be moderatly reduced?

as far as barrel length, i shouldn't lose more than about .250 inches with the set back and re-chamber...

if you think it wasn't a wise discision, i would just like to know why...

shortening the throat for a little better accuracy, improving it for better throat and brass life... sound slike a win win...

didn't cost me an arm and a leg either.

set back / re chamber - 150$
true an action - 150
 
#27
Re: loading 243AI

Chambering the Ackley all things being equal should result in increased capacity and therefore increased velocity. I don't see why you believe throat erosion would be reduced? The other gain is in probably never having to trim for length again. How much you lose in barrel length is up to the guy that does the work. They generally like to cut new barrel threads and that would involve more than a quarter inch. I think it's up to you to decide if you did the right thing, but I do not think I would spend $150 to punch a 243 factory barrel as a matter of general principle. Blueprinting the action, yes but for another $250, more or less you can have a premium barrel chambered in your choice of contour and whatever cartridge your little heart desires, finished in whatever length with your choice of twist. For me, it's a win/win/win situation. That is a personal opinion, and it costs you nothing. BB
 
#29
Re: loading 243AI

Well my buddies rig is done... Mine is on the machines soon, should be done by end of Feb...

5d418916.jpg
 
#30
Re: loading 243AI

Well she's done, I want to thank everyone that gave positive feedback and helpfull load suggestions, and Doyle Englin of Dixie guns (the wizard)

during load development i settled at 42.5 grais of IMR-4350 with .002 neck tention at .008 jump with the 105 A-max, during load development our best group was near 1" @ 400 yards.

Took it out to Hard Rock and had a near half MOA 5 shot group with 3 in a 1.5' triangle @ 900 yards. a fluke if you ask me as the marige was kick'n

7959ac30.jpg


c113267f.jpg


 
#31
Re: loading 243AI

going to a 100 yard WMA range so i will post up some group pics.

although i think its crap shooting groups at 100 yards, i do all of my load development at 300 yards most of the time, and at 400 yards on this gun.
 
#32
Re: loading 243AI

44.5g H414 out of a 26" 10 twist push 87-90 grain pills about 3250

46g of R19 was very accurate pushing them around 3200.

43g of R17 pushes 105 Amax's out of an 8 twist around 3150

None of these loads are speed deamons, but have proved very accurate in my rifles.
 
#33
Re: loading 243AI

laerned all about speed does not always equate to accuracy when i got an 8 twist pipe installed. it is 28.5" and pushed 105 bergers at 3460 with 49gr of H4831SC, but did not perform well at thoes speeds. back'd it down to near 3000fps and acheived 1/3 moa groups out to 600yds.
 
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