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AR 10 VS M1A EBR

Re: AR 10 VS M1A EBR

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BigJoe</div><div class="ubbcode-body">yep i'm curious how you'll be doin said overwatch? from helo? then you'll have a hard time getting in the stack. or from a elevated position? if thats the case buy a 8" 300blk and run that and sling the long gun. i would never in a million years do clearence on a ship with a freaking long gun. you are insane. </div></div>

As i said before..... room clearing with a 20" is not horrible, BUT it is slower ( why im not the first or third in)

Again, as i said before..... the need for a DM is a must on the larger super tankers or military style ships.

You say sling the long gun? NOW im worried about getting catch on corners... that is the last thing i want going through bulkhead doors.
 
Re: AR 10 VS M1A EBR

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mike</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SS-8541-dono</div><div class="ubbcode-body">put iron sights on a gap 10 and try and shoot it at 1000 yards and let us know your results if its better than what an m1a can do and has done for the last 50 years i would be surpised. </div></div>

You're going to be surprised. Accuracy is accuracy. How is the sight configuration going to make a rifle more accurate? </div></div>

I beleive Dono's comment was in regards to how well the M14 was set up for its original design purpose which is its use of its excellent adjustable sights that lend itself extremely well to shooting out to 1K. Of course a Gap10 is a supeior scoped rifle but with most BUIS thats available it would kind of fall short at 1k.
 
Re: AR 10 VS M1A EBR

and carrying it isn't? your goin to be #3 through the door? with a 1000m gun? wow bro i'm done, best of luck to ya
 
Re: AR 10 VS M1A EBR

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Broker</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: hydra 67</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BigJoe</div><div class="ubbcode-body">the "recce" rifle is a idea for military that are limited to what they carry. Even at that most military "snipers" i know would never want to do CQC with their long gun. what optic do you plan on running on this 1000 meter gun? even with a back up doctor, RMR, irons, most guns that will put rounds effectively and regularly down range at 1000 are long and awkward for CQC. Since you instantly discounted mike's comments as false and immediately came back with a comeback i ask what are you? swat? mil? LEO? call of duty? the recce idea is awesome for a gun wanting to shoot between 100-4/500 yards in open ground and limited to 1 long gun. if i can i would carry a long gun on my back if i planned on engagements that far and carry somethign smaller more capable of the CQC type role. But what do i know i just stayed at a holiday in express last night. </div></div>

The rifle in question is for naval use. More specifically providing over watch for the boarding team then joining the bording team in the rear of the stack. Expected engagement ranges from 3-500yards ( tanker ships are very large and shots from heli) thus the need for range. I believe that explains the weapons AOE.
</div></div>

Your trying to argue with Joe and it's in regards to naval use... you're fucked... just sayin...

YG6vv.gif
</div></div>


He does have some merit in the things he says... I for sure as hell would not be clearing rooms with a long gun unless it was absolutely the only thing I had. But what do any of us internet commandos know...
 
Re: AR 10 VS M1A EBR

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: hydra 67</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DavidAR10</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Piston driven for 1000k and CQB?

You need to get out of your mother's basement more often.

killshot is too kind with you, but he has always been the gentleman. Me, not so much.

I really better not get the ban hammer for such a scrotumite thread. </div></div>

Have you EVER done room clearing before? Seen it done better with a 24" 700 then a punk with a SBR AR. I assume you have not. </div></div>

I have... and doing it with an M24 or M40 is nearly as far from ideal as you can get (shy of a 107). Just because someone was an idiot with an SBR does not make a bolt gun a room clearing gun.

Statements like the above do not go a long way to prove you an experienced professional. If you are, good for you- I as well as a lot of members of the board would tell you to start speaking like an experienced professional.

We, those who carry arms for a living... know that a weapon is only as good as the hands which employ it. That does not mean the hands that employ the weapon also make all weapons equal. Only a fool would, given the option use a 24" R700 for room clearing when they have an 11" AR available. Only slightly less ridiculous is using a 17lb 20" barreled AR10 for room clearing over an 11" AR.


Use the proper tool for the job- if this is for LE work as mentioned earlier, there is ZERO reason it has to be dual use when department price on S&W MP15's is under $800.


I'll offer you this- If you want dual use, you need to knock back your range and step down to a 16" barrel. This will still effectively hit 700 with reasonable authority, and using quality QD mounts on your LR optic and a reddot will allow swapping optics for the role.

Fact is, dual use tools require a compromise in both uses to be effective all-around. Worth remembering is that compromise does in-fact decrease the effectiveness for each individual use over that of a dedicated tool. What everyone is telling you is that a 20" AR10 is not a compromise tool- it is a specialized tool that you want to try to use in dual role. So the recommendation you are getting here is this:

1) Abandon the dual use idea and get two specialized tools for each job

2) Adjust your expectations for dual use and also adjust your tool into a general use tool instead of a specialized tool.



Good luck
 
Re: AR 10 VS M1A EBR

Well this was a complete disappointment. Should have assumed a website full of "snipers" would not understand the dual use of a rifle.

Thank you to those who are staying off the soap box, and to those others... thanks for the tax money. Ill be sure to spend it well.

If you would truely like to know more, the pm feature exists.

Cheers,
 
Re: AR 10 VS M1A EBR

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: hydra 67</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BigJoe</div><div class="ubbcode-body">yep i'm curious how you'll be doin said overwatch? from helo? then you'll have a hard time getting in the stack. or from a elevated position? if thats the case buy a 8" 300blk and run that and sling the long gun. i would never in a million years do clearence on a ship with a freaking long gun. you are insane. </div></div>

As i said before..... room clearing with a 20" is not horrible, BUT it is slower ( why im not the first or third in)

Again, as i said before..... the need for a DM is a must on the larger super tankers or military style ships.

You say sling the long gun? NOW im worried about getting catch on corners... that is the last thing i want going through bulkhead doors. </div></div>

Down_In_Flames.gif
 
Re: AR 10 VS M1A EBR

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: hydra 67</div><div class="ubbcode-body">website full of "snipers"</div></div>

LOL

My crystal ball shows you making many friends here...
 
Re: AR 10 VS M1A EBR

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mike</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What's a military style ship? </div></div>

The gray ones that are full of gay guys and guns. The big ones have airplanes too.

Civilian ones are the big white ones full of casinos and old people.
 
Re: AR 10 VS M1A EBR

Where were you in '83? What were you doing in '85-'86?

I earned this the Smith-Barney way:
PA020074.jpg


There's another member impressed by my hoodie and he is also on my scrotumite list. He had to fight for food as an infant.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: hydra 67</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DavidAR10</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Piston driven for 1000k and CQB?

You need to get out of your mother's basement more often.

killshot is too kind with you, but he has always been the gentleman. Me, not so much.

I really better not get the ban hammer for such a scrotumite thread. </div></div>

Have you EVER done room clearing before? Seen it done better with a 24" 700 then a punk with a SBR AR. I assume you have not. </div></div>
 
Re: AR 10 VS M1A EBR

Cleared a shit load of buildings and such. Could never imagine doing so with a long rifle. Sling it, use a pistol, subgun or SBR and moe along in stack. Long Rifle will just f up the flow.
 
Re: AR 10 VS M1A EBR

Oh boy... I should have read further... This is for use on a ship? Clearing on a ship... with a long gun... sounds like a wonderful idea!

The irony to this is he's here to get advise from "snipers"... (either he doubts there are snipers here or???)


And when it's given, from literally just about every segment that employs snipers... everyone is full of shit.

As I said before... good luck...
 
Re: AR 10 VS M1A EBR

Holy F*** ! Gecko45 got a new computer. But seriously did anyone notice he changed the range requirements for the gun 3 different times, from 1000y to 800y to 500y. Also the guy behind the gun career changed from law enforcement to navy.
 
Re: AR 10 VS M1A EBR

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BigJoe</div><div class="ubbcode-body">dono mike isn't saying it can't be done but historically the m1a takes a LOT more money to be even close to a ar10 that is pulled out of the box for half the cost. the m1a is a battle rifle, it has proven itself as a valid war platform, i carried one i do not discount it but it is not a 3/8moa gun and if you are trying to make it one you are goin to spend some money. ask GAP who built plenty of m1a's which is easier and cheaper to make accurate a ar10 or a m1a? i bet i know the answer. </div></div>

I built a no expense spared M1A, and shot a match prepped TRW NM for many years. They're expensive, they're a pain in the ass to keep in top shape, and they suck for optics.

Sold it and got an OBR. And an SR25EC.
 
Re: AR 10 VS M1A EBR

Not my cup of tea and not cheap but this will get you to 1000 in a relatively compact package. Don't expect more than MOA accuracy out of it. Although can you shoot better than MOA at 1000 in ocean wind conditions?
298867_259710467401309_202193666486323_706333_1953842547_n.jpg


22" M14 in rogue chassis. If you're LE or military you should have access to real M14s instead of just M1as.
 
Re: AR 10 VS M1A EBR

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Beef</div><div class="ubbcode-body">20" AR10, its simpler, lower/easier maintenance, can be lighter. Still a compromise. </div></div>

How in the world is any type on non-gas piston AR easier/less to maintain then a M14/M1a in a Sage? The AR type rifle will HAVE to be cleaned after every outing do to its gas system. If you add a can, it gets really dirty. Our MK11s were filthy after about 20 rounds of use with a can.

Now, I’ve never shot a M14 with a can, however do to its gas piston design it’s going to be ALOT cleaner.

The Marine Corps and Army records around 3/4 MOA from Sage M14s, these rifles are surplus post Vietnam barreled actions that have been in storage for 40+ years. If you add a medium weight barrel consistency and accuracy will improve.

We only had the DMR m14 (Mcmillan stock) and it was still preferred over the MK11.

Go for the M1a, get a loaded model from Springfield Armory, drop it into a Sage and have fun!
 
Re: AR 10 VS M1A EBR

A couple of things:

You come here and ask about a dual purpose rifle. Fair enough, then you don't like the responses. Step back and be objective.

I will take your statements at face value:

Problem:
You must provide overwatch as team sets up, then you must displace from overwatch position to assume duty as entry team member.

Possible solution:
Accurized semi-auto platform to serve both functions.

For arguments sake, we will assume .308 (since you mention the M1A).

This is where we run into trouble. A rifle so configured is a major compromise. While an 18" barrel is sufficient for the long ranges you may encounter, it is not optimal. It is however, quite workable.
As a matter of fact, this is the least of the problems associated with your intentions.

What you WILL have is a heavy, slow to bring to bear major caliber rifle. The optics will need to be highly specialized and will also be a compromise (think along the lines of the IOR 1-10 dual plane scope). Worse, you are going to have a fairly short barreled rifle. When on the interior of a ship, you are dealing with low overheads, narrow passage ways and very tight quarters. If you touch that rifle off inside the skin of the ship, you will disable your ENTIRE team. You will have a huge concussive blast and bright fireball, several times worse than a flash bang going off in your midst. Even wearing single hearing protection won't help much. You have now blinded and deafened your entire team. So, you say "I'll run a can", well, you just added another 7" to your barrel and over a pound of weight. You'll also need two loads, 175 for the long range precision and 110 tap for the interior work.

The real answer here is this:
A dedicated semi-auto precision rifle with collapsible or folding butt stock and a back pack to carry it in, coupled with a sub-gun or PDW, the Knights Armament PDW gets my vote.

If you can only have ONE rifle, then consider a MK12 SPR loaded with hornady tap 75 grain or MK262 mod1.

If you want more ooomph (and who doesn't) then consider an SPR in 6.8 spc II running SSA combat loads. The 110 accu-bond is accurate and very deadly. Figure on about half again the energy of the 75 grain 5.56 load.
 
Re: AR 10 VS M1A EBR

That M1A in a sage is gonna be heavy like a bitch. Ask me how I know.

An AR will have better ergos, more modularity, greater parts availability, and won't demand an overhaul of its internals to ensure top performance.
 
Re: AR 10 VS M1A EBR

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: hydra 67</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Hello all!!

Im looking at getting my foot in the door for long range shooting. I want a weapon that not only can reach to 1000 yards but also be used for room clearing if need be.

I have narrowed it down to AR 10 ( POF 308 20") or a M1A put in a SAGE EBR chassis.

Key details i need is...

1 MOA capable

Must be very reliable


Pros and cons to each system? I am familiar with the AR system but dont have any strong attachment to it.

Thanks for letting me pick your brains and sorry this is a repost.</div></div>

You said you want to pick my brain, dude, you just fried it. I am now just getting my uncontrollable involuntary laughter under control. I wish I had gotten into this thread earlier. I needed a good laugh.

Since you know what you need, can't you also conclude what will get the job done without advice. Let your experience guide you. Training outcomes will reveal whether your notions have merit.
 
Re: AR 10 VS M1A EBR

For those now just joining us, I took the liberty to make a summary Cliff Notes (with dinosaurs) of this lovely thread.

much thanks to BigJoe, DP425, BCP, and Broker for their guest appearances
laugh.gif

hydra67.png
 
Re: AR 10 VS M1A EBR

Tell me other folks,besides me, here have shot a short bbl'd 308 in doors and found it better as a flash bang than entry weapon?

Too fng loud

Too FNG Heavy

Go as directed before or dont moan when you die
 
Re: AR 10 VS M1A EBR

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tactical</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Tell me other folks,besides me, here have shot a short bbl'd 308 in doors and found it better as a flash bang than entry weapon?

Too fng loud

Too FNG Heavy

Go as directed before or dont moan when you die </div></div>

Took the words right outta my mouth.

Everyone in the stack is going to be really pissed when you actually do find a target and loose a .308 in a small, metal, room...

My 16" .308 got used in the CQB part of a match once. Never again. I make sure to take multiple guns. Different ones for different tasks.
 
Re: AR 10 VS M1A EBR

When I first put my 16" 308 together I used a PWS brake on the end of it. Not sure what I was thinking when I did that although it did scare the living hell out of everyone at the range.
 
Re: AR 10 VS M1A EBR

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: usmc1488</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Now, I’ve never shot a M14 with a can, however do to its gas piston design it’s going to be ALOT cleaner. </div></div>
Wrong. Run a issued weapon with a can that has wipes or whatever style of stack or core you want and get back to me on that,.... perception.
 
Re: AR 10 VS M1A EBR

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tactical</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Tell me other folks,besides me, here have shot a short bbl'd 308 in doors and found it better as a flash bang than entry weapon?

Too fng loud

Too FNG Heavy

Go as directed before or dont moan when you die </div></div>

No Frags or Concussions?
However when you what to instill in them you really mean business, gift them a Willy-Peter, an walk away while singing,...Don't worry,...be happy.
 
Re: AR 10 VS M1A EBR

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Beef</div><div class="ubbcode-body">20" AR10, its simpler, lower/easier maintenance, can be lighter. Still a compromise. </div></div>

ditto
 
Re: AR 10 VS M1A EBR

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sharfshutze</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mike</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SS-8541-dono</div><div class="ubbcode-body">put iron sights on a gap 10 and try and shoot it at 1000 yards and let us know your results if its better than what an m1a can do and has done for the last 50 years i would be surpised. </div></div>

You're going to be surprised. Accuracy is accuracy. How is the sight configuration going to make a rifle more accurate? </div></div>

I beleive Dono's comment was in regards to how well the M14 was set up for its original design purpose which is its use of its excellent adjustable sights that lend itself extremely well to shooting out to 1K. Of course a Gap10 is a supeior scoped rifle but with most BUIS thats available it would kind of fall short at 1k. </div></div>

the reason a gap 10 is being held to some sort of high and mighty accuracy platform is becuase people buy them put a high dollar scope on them and shoot them for groups at 100 yards and on steel out to 1000 i dont think to date anyone has bought one and used iron sights on it out to 1000 to really see some sort of accuracy advantage over a m1a with irons at that distance, i have a m1a loaded and can consistantly hit a 6" steel swinger at 630 yards with iron sights and can easily stay at 1 moa out to 1000 if thats not good enough put it in a sage chassis and it will do even better, otherwise do what everyone else is doing and buy a gap10 but from my exp i would rather have my m1a and save some coin and have something that shoots just as well.
 
Re: AR 10 VS M1A EBR

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SS-8541-dono</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sharfshutze</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mike</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SS-8541-dono</div><div class="ubbcode-body">put iron sights on a gap 10 and try and shoot it at 1000 yards and let us know your results if its better than what an m1a can do and has done for the last 50 years i would be surpised. </div></div>

You're going to be surprised. Accuracy is accuracy. How is the sight configuration going to make a rifle more accurate? </div></div>

I beleive Dono's comment was in regards to how well the M14 was set up for its original design purpose which is its use of its excellent adjustable sights that lend itself extremely well to shooting out to 1K. Of course a Gap10 is a supeior scoped rifle but with most BUIS thats available it would kind of fall short at 1k. </div></div>

the reason a gap 10 is being held to some sort of high and mighty accuracy platform is <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="color: #CC0000">becuase people buy them put a high dollar scope on them and shoot them for groups at 100 yards and on steel out to 1000 i dont think to date anyone has bought one and used iron sights on it out to 1000 to really see some sort of accuracy advantage over a m1a with irons at that distance</span></span>, i have a m1a loaded and can consistantly hit a 6" steel swinger at 630 yards with iron sights and can easily stay at 1 moa out to 1000 if thats not good enough put it in a sage chassis and it will do even better, otherwise do what everyone else is doing and buy a gap10 but from my exp i would rather have my m1a and save some coin and have something that shoots just as well. </div></div>

I'm not sure how to begin. The Gap is going to be more accurate with or without the use of a scope. The optic or no optic has nothing to do with the accuracy of the rifle itself.
 
Re: AR 10 VS M1A EBR

wow you should re read my post or ask someone else to reasd it and explain it to you.has anyone shot a gap10 at 1000 yards with iron sights ? all i can say is what i know and comparing a gap10 vs a loaded m1a at 100 yards for accuracy comes out to be pretty much even steven i know this as a fact in my case as i have tested both but maybee everyone elses gap 10 is some sort of unicorn gap10 and the one i have used must not be
 
Re: AR 10 VS M1A EBR

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SS-8541-dono</div><div class="ubbcode-body">wow you should re read my post or ask someone else to reasd it and explain it to you.has anyone shot a gap10 at 1000 yards with iron sights ? all i can say is what i know and comparing a gap10 vs a loaded m1a at 100 yards for accuracy comes out to be pretty much even steven i know this as a fact in my case as i have tested both but maybee everyone elses gap 10 is some sort of unicorn gap10 and the one i have used must not be </div></div>

You should re-read mine. Your post if full dumbass. Maybe you need someone to explain how rifles work?

One the Gap rifle is a more accurate rifle from the start. The gap rifle does not become less accurate because you choose to run Iron sites on it instead of a scope. The shooter becomes less accurate with that rifle. The rifle does not simply go from a 1/2 moa shooter to a 1 moa shooter because you decided not to run a optic. You took your extending aiming device (optic) and replaced it with a less refined aiming device (iron sights) and noticed you groups open up.

Congratufuckinglations you went full retard then decided to try to be a smart ass about it.
 
Re: AR 10 VS M1A EBR

again take the scopes off the gap10's and shoot them for groups at 100 and 1000 compare the results with a m1a and get back to us. like i said i have shot a magical gap10 for groups at 100 yards as well as a loaded m1a at 100 yards and they shoot about the same if i was going to be critical i would give the edge to the m1a but as i stated the gap 10 i have shot must have been an oddball since every other one made seems to shoot 3/8 moa or better?
 
Re: AR 10 VS M1A EBR

shit , i have a fal that i think will work for you how big is the target at 1000 hopefully like a barn yeah i could do it ,, and why would u want to shoot a 1000yds with open sites thats just stupid.. use a scope save ammo for zombies
 
Re: AR 10 VS M1A EBR

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SS-8541-dono</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> again take the scopes off the gap10's and shoot them for groups at 100 and 1000 compare the results with a m1a and get back to us. like i said i have shot a magical gap10 for groups at 100 yards as well as a loaded m1a at 100 yards and they shoot about the same if i was going to be critical i would give the edge to the m1a but as i stated the gap 10 i have shot must have been an oddball since every other one made seems to shoot 3/8 moa or better?</div></div>

This doesn't even make sense because you're specifically talking about the capability of the sights? Again, the sights does not an accurate rifle make. They're iron sights. Are you really taking that position? I can mount the EXACT same sights on both rifles and I guarantee the GAP will be more accurate because it's inherently more accurate. I've been around dozens of M1As that have had thousands of dollars thrown at them and it's rare...not impossible but rare...that you'll get one to consistently group inside 1 moa let alone .5 moa. So yes, the GAP-10 you shot was an oddball and I would have the owner send it back if it's not grouping under .5 moa. My personal GAP-10 shoots .5 all day every day.
 
Re: AR 10 VS M1A EBR

shooting targets at 1000 yards with iron sights isnt stupid its great markemanship and in my opinion should be mastered before putting a scope on a rifle and shooting 1000 yards, hell ask the vets that fought at Battle of Belleau Wood if shooting with rions at 1000 yards is stupid or better yet ask the germans that got shot to hell from those same marines if its stupid. whats stupid is someone who buys a bolt gun and puts a scope on it and shoots 1000 yards and thinks their some kind of tacticool sniper guy when they never actually learned the fundamentals of marksmanship.
 
Re: AR 10 VS M1A EBR

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: poorboyshooter</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> and why would u want to shoot a 1000yds with open sites thats just stupid.. </div></div>
You might want to rethink that a little as there are many, many, folks who shoot to 1K with irons. They even have/hold a match, or two. Lots of folks who think they know how to shoot, show up to watch an get a pointer or three. YMMV
 
Re: AR 10 VS M1A EBR

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SS-8541-dono</div><div class="ubbcode-body">shooting targets at 1000 yards with iron sights isnt stupid its great markemanship and in my opinion should be mastered before putting a scope on a rifle and shooting 1000 yards, hell ask the vets that fought at Battle of Belleau Wood if shooting with rions at 1000 yards is stupid or better yet ask the germans that got shot to hell from those same marines if its stupid. whats stupid is someone who buys a bolt gun and puts a scope on it and shoots 1000 yards and thinks their some kind of tacticool sniper guy when they never actually learned the fundamentals of marksmanship.</div></div>

So now you realize your argument holds no merit and so you're going to deflect to the capability of the shooter? The ol' bait and switch.
No one said shooting irons at 1K was stupid. What we are saying is stupid is that your position is the M1A is more accurate at 1K than a GAP AR because it has better iron sights? Irrelevant of the capability of the rifle, you're going to rely solely on the history of the M1A to make the argument that it's a more accurate rifle. I can guarantee you those soldiers at Belleau Wood had lots of "practice" too. Soldiers on both sides were killed at 1K with a three-band Enfield. Are we going to say it's a more accurate rifle too?

OK, poorboy said shooting irons was stupid. I completely disagree with that and was stating I do not think shooting irons at 1K is stupid and never said that.
 
Re: AR 10 VS M1A EBR

your right the gap10 is better i dont know what i was thinking if george could make more than 3 a month maybee the military should try to get some into the hands of our troops and get those shity m1a's they love so much back on the rack where they belong. i dont know what the world would have done without ga putting together hogans parts to create such a masterpiece. i stand corrected you guys are right and i am wrong please dont hold this against me i already know enough shame for my ignorance if i had a sword i would fall onto it.
 
Re: AR 10 VS M1A EBR

I have an 18.5" EBR setup and plan to get an 18" GAP-10 in the future. I think the GAP-10 will have the advantage just based on the design, but the EBR will still be my favourite.
 
Re: AR 10 VS M1A EBR

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: poorboyshooter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">shit , i have a fal that i think will work for you how big is the target at 1000 hopefully like a barn yeah i could do it ,, and why would u want to shoot a 1000yds with open sites thats just stupid.. use a scope save ammo for zombies
</div></div>

actually this person said shooting at 1000 with iron sights was stupid.
 
Re: AR 10 VS M1A EBR

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SS-8541-dono</div><div class="ubbcode-body">your right the gap10 is better i dont know what i was thinking if george could make more than 3 a month maybee the military should try to get some into the hands of our troops and get those shity m1a's they love so much back on the rack where they belong. i dont know what the world would have done without ga putting together hogans parts to create such a masterpiece. i stand corrected you guys are right and i am wrong please dont hold this against me i already know enough shame for my ignorance if i had a sword i would fall onto it. </div></div>

This is the point where you walk off and don't reopen this thread. It wasn't going well for you before....now your pissing in the wind.
 
Re: AR 10 VS M1A EBR

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SS-8541-dono</div><div class="ubbcode-body">your right the gap10 is better i dont know what i was thinking if george could make more than 3 a month maybee the military should try to get some into the hands of our troops and get those shity m1a's they love so much back on the rack where they belong. i dont know what the world would have done without ga putting together hogans parts to create such a masterpiece. i stand corrected you guys are right and i am wrong please dont hold this against me i already know enough shame for my ignorance if i had a sword i would fall onto it.</div></div>

Here you go again. You're losing the argument and so you deflect to the total capability of the rifle. No one said the M1A was not a capable killing platform. No one said it hasn't proven its worth time and time again on the battle field. No one said it was a POS. More people have died by a smoothbore musket than an M1A. Does that make the smooth bore musket a better battle rifle?

Stick to the topic. You're straying more than a drunk driver.
 
Re: AR 10 VS M1A EBR

Sight radius is a big factor when shooting irons, long.
 
Re: AR 10 VS M1A EBR

m1a's suck gap10's are better, i mean what was i thinking m1a's are not even black and they have wood on them whats with that? i bet our troops fell pretty dumb walking around with a rifle that has wood on it i mean geez its 2012. btw i was at the range yesterday and this guy had a pof and was shooting 3/4 moa and another guy had a gap10 and he was shooting under 1/4 moa all day i bet that guy with the pof was pissed.
 
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