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KAC EMC vs. SCAR 17...which one...

T

titus7

Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
Jun 1, 2008
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Ridgecrest, California
Alright guys, if you owned a KAC EMC would you ever sale it to purchase a SCAR 17? Or maybe this would be easier if you were in a situation gone bad and there was an EMC and a SCAR17 laying on the floor next to each other which one would you grab and why?

Thanks in advance for your input
 
Re: KAC EMC vs. SCAR 17...which one...

Having shot both pretty extensively. Leaving pricing out of it. I would pick the KAC. The SCAR is a great rifle, but its a battle rifle and I dont like the short rail, reciprocating charging handle, and stock. The EMC has the rifle length rail, rifle gas system, and is a soft soft shooter. The EMC is more of a precision rig, with some battle rifle mixed in.

Again, leaving price out of this the EMC wins hands down in my opinion

<span style="font-size: 17pt">
<span style="font-weight: bold">CAN we leave the KAC bashing out of this and possibly have a informative thread?</span></span>
 
Re: KAC EMC vs. SCAR 17...which one...

For a "situation gone bad" I'd pick the 17S with the stipulation that I also had the magazines to run with it. Right now magazines are still in short supply and high demand. For an all around rifle though, its hard to beat a 7.62 rifle that starts at about eight pounds. Its accurate enough to use at decent ranges, yet handy enough to use close up, too. Robust as all shit as well, have not had a single malfunction in mine.
 
Re: KAC EMC vs. SCAR 17...which one...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Alright guys, if you owned a KAC EMC would you ever sale it to purchase a SCAR 17?</div></div>

Hell no. Not in this lifetime or any other.
 
Re: KAC EMC vs. SCAR 17...which one...

I think it would really come down to purpose.

If you wanted more of a "battle rifle" (not saying the KAC EMC is not), then I would get the scar17. If you are going with a red dot or 1-6 var scope maybe. More light weight, but hard to get mags. Has little to no kick. My friend usually gets about 1.5 to 2. moa with this scar, but then again it could just be him...

If you wanted more of a precision AR (not saying the SCAR17 is not), then I would get the KAC EMC. Something more with a 4-16 or more scope type of thing. If you are going 200yards / 300yards plus, then the KAC EMC.

Just my 2pc, hopefully this helps.
 
Re: KAC EMC vs. SCAR 17...which one...

SCAR 17
Weight/ unloaded- 8.0lbs
16.25" barrel 1:12 twist

SR25 EMC
Weight/unloaded 8.5lbs
16" barrel 11 twist


Again you are comparing a battle rifle and quasi precision rifle with battle rifle tendencies
 
Re: KAC EMC vs. SCAR 17...which one...

Is there anything else laying on the floor? Samurai sword, flame thrower, BFG-9000?

Also I'm almost 100% positive that the EMC is listed in Cali so you can't get it. Maybe if you're in law enforcement but I don't know about that either.
 
Re: KAC EMC vs. SCAR 17...which one...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Deadly0311</div><div class="ubbcode-body">SCAR 17
Weight/ unloaded- 8.0lbs
16.25" barrel 1:12 twist

SR25 EMC
Weight/unloaded 8.5lbs
16" barrel 11 twist


Again you are comparing a battle rifle and <span style="color: #FF0000">quasi precision
rifle</span> with battle rifle tendencies </div></div>

They're quasi pecision, the margarine of precision, the diet coke of precision. Just 1 moa, not precision enough.
MontanaKid1
 
Re: KAC EMC vs. SCAR 17...which one...

ok, have you shot them or is that something you read?
 
Re: KAC EMC vs. SCAR 17...which one...

KAC Hands down. I really tried to like the Scar i was going to buy one but went with the LMT MWS instead. Which is pretty much a KAC twin brother. I fell that the plastic parts of the Scar would wear out faster over time . it felt like a kids water gun to me . I just couldn't see spending close to 3k on it maybe 1500ish or so would be a good price point on it.
 
Re: KAC EMC vs. SCAR 17...which one...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sinister</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Alright guys, if you owned a KAC EMC would you ever sale it to purchase a SCAR 17?</div></div>

Hell no. Not in this lifetime or any other. </div></div>


Pretty much this.

Moar pictures...
DSC_0480.jpg


DSC_0471.jpg
 
Re: KAC EMC vs. SCAR 17...which one...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: OldGuardShooter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I really tried to like the Scar i was going to buy one but went with the LMT MWS instead. </div></div>

This I don't see the point of the SCAR. The LMT MWS is built like a brick shithouse and MOA or better accurate. Also, OP if you are reading this - you can get the LMT MWS in Cali. So if you want a battle rifle carbine and have some bucks to spend there you go.
 
Re: KAC EMC vs. SCAR 17...which one...

EMC.

The SCAR just feels cheap to me. Its lightweight, sure, but its got a short forend, (I tend to shoot with a grip further forward on the rifle) expensive mags , and it achieves its low felt recoil by using a brake.

The EMC, while more expensive, feels better balanced to me, has a low, smooth recoil impulse without the use of a brake, and uses the same manual of arms as my AR15. Mags are cheaper and easier to get as well.

I was looking at purchasing either a SCARH, an OBR, or an SR25 when I was looking for a semi .308. In the end I went with the SR25 because it was the best value for the money, and I don't regret it.
 
Re: KAC EMC vs. SCAR 17...which one...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Deadly0311</div><div class="ubbcode-body">ok, have you shot them or is that something you read? </div></div>

I'd love some owners of these to post in this topic http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=3523625&gonew=1#UNREAD

I shot my EMR the other day with the intent of posting in that thread but ran out of time before I complete all 6 groups. I shot 3 groups under 1/2 MOA (best being 0.40) then looked at my watch and shot the next group at 1.5 MOA and another as fast as I could at just under 1 MOA.

We all read both sides of the argument regarding KAC - accurate vs inaccurate, I'd love to see how well one of their chrome lined guns shoots.




Good luck
 
Re: KAC EMC vs. SCAR 17...which one...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mo_Zam_Beek</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Deadly0311</div><div class="ubbcode-body">ok, have you shot them or is that something you read? </div></div>

I'd love some owners of these to post in this topic http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=3523625&gonew=1#UNREAD

I shot my EMR the other day with the intent of posting in that thread but ran out of time before I complete all 6 groups. I shot 3 groups under 1/2 MOA (best being 0.40) then looked at my watch and shot the next group at 1.5 MOA and another as fast as I could at just under 1 MOA.

We all read both sides of the argument regarding KAC - accurate vs inaccurate, I'd love to see how well one of their chrome lined guns shoots.




Good luck

</div></div>

Ill try and get out in the next week or so and shoot some groups with this thing.

SR25ECC2.jpg
 
Re: KAC EMC vs. SCAR 17...which one...

I only have one semi-auto .308, it's a KAC! No complaints here. The SCAR is a nice weapon, just not my choice.
 
Re: KAC EMC vs. SCAR 17...which one...

The SCAR will shoot MOA...handles better for short and medium. It also does not shit all over itself.
I think most of you are AR fags at heart and are biased. I own 3 AR's but not a good choice in a battle rifle.
IMG_3375a.jpg
 
Re: KAC EMC vs. SCAR 17...which one...

I would like to see six (6) five (5) round groups from this too. Are you willing to do that and post them?


Good luck
 
Re: KAC EMC vs. SCAR 17...which one...

oh lord, here we go.


<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 7.62gunr</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The SCAR will shoot MOA...handles better for short and medium. It also does not shit all over itself.
I think most of you are AR fags at heart and are biased. I own 3 AR's but not a good choice in a battle rifle.
IMG_3375a.jpg
</div></div>
 
Re: KAC EMC vs. SCAR 17...which one...

"AR fags"....Really??? I think you discounted your opinion before you even finished it above.

Badass Grip Pod though:)
 
Re: KAC EMC vs. SCAR 17...which one...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 7.62gunr</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The SCAR will shoot MOA...handles better for short and medium. It also does not shit all over itself.
I think most of you are AR fags at heart and are biased. I own 3 AR's but not a good choice in a battle rifle.
IMG_3375a.jpg
</div></div>

I may be an AR fag, but you ooze the FN Fag which is only slightly worse than the HK Fag. I am in awe of your burris and grip-pod. Likewise, can you explain to me why the AR platform isn't a good choice for a battle rifle?
 
Re: KAC EMC vs. SCAR 17...which one...

I own one FN. I have talked to the SF guys that actually use the Mk17 to kill people and they like it very much. I also work on M110's which are a boat anchor and don't shoot much better than the Mk17.
 
Re: KAC EMC vs. SCAR 17...which one...

M110 isnt a battle rifle its a sniper rifle/dmr gun. The EMC is. Lets compare apples to apples. Ive talked to SF guys that hate the Mk17 due to all the plastic.


So again, can you answer my as to why the AR platform doesn't make a good battle rifle platform, being that you are a bad ass armorer and all.
 
Re: KAC EMC vs. SCAR 17...which one...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Deadly0311</div><div class="ubbcode-body">M110 isnt a battle rifle its a sniper rifle/dmr gun. The EMC is. Lets compare apples to apples. Ive talked to SF guys that hate the Mk17 due to all the plastic.


So again, can you answer my as to why the AR platform doesn't make a good battle rifle platform, being that you are a bad ass armorer and all. </div></div>
You have talked to them and they hate it.......bullshit.
What's your MOS shitbag? Are you even prior service?
Do you think SOCOM picked the SCAR for it's cheap price tag? Do you have any idea just how finicky the Stoner gas system is? How shitty the mags are? The fact it can't really run dry? KAC does actually have the manufacturing ability to supply us but SOCOM has no interest. The next DMR will be a SCAR variant.
Go back to your mall ninja bullshit. How many of you people on here actually shoot past 400m? I have held man size at 800m with my SCAR and 30 year old Port surplus.....this is with a 6x DMR scope not some 24X nightforce.
 
Re: KAC EMC vs. SCAR 17...which one...

Id go with the Scar. Lighter weight, Piston, Better balance, Battle ready, Will do MOA.

KAC is a fine rifle too though.
 
Re: KAC EMC vs. SCAR 17...which one...

I did happen to be at a Comp recently where a couple of Extremely HSLD guys ran their tuned up M17s over the course of a week against equally HSLD teams from across the spectrum of HSLD stuff.
As I recall they finished well down in the Pack, first was 110s and OBRs dominated the remainder of the field.
The M17 operators were not speaking exactly High on their blasters, and on this, I am not forced to guess one bit as I personally held a lengthy conversation with them on just this subject.


I am certain Sinister witnessed this same show.
 
Re: KAC EMC vs. SCAR 17...which one...

...on another note had a gentleman call me over the other day to admire his matching Scar-17 and Scar-16. I was surprised how light it was. Shooting offhand it must balance well.

The thing most memorable about the showing was that the guy had both rifles sitting on the shooting table balanced standing up on their mag wells. The 17 was close to the edge of the table and I was thinking to myself man he has a lot of balls balancing his $5-6K in rifles on the edge of a peiced together picnic table.

A thrid party was called over to admire the Scars and he promptly bumped the table causing the 17 with scope to crash to the concrete. The 16 stayed on the table.

The sound of a Scar smacking concrete sounds just as bad as the sound of any other rifle hitting concrete but the crash of plastic and metal on concrete was somewhat muffled by the sound of the owners erect penis going limp light speed fast and swishing against the material of his undershorts.
 
Re: KAC EMC vs. SCAR 17...which one...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: pmclaine</div><div class="ubbcode-body">...on another note had a gentleman call me over the other day to admire his matching Scar-17 and Scar-16. I was surprised how light it was. Shooting offhand it must balance well.

The thing most memorable about the showing was that the guy had both rifles sitting on the shooting table balanced standing up on their mag wells. The 17 was close to the edge of the table and I was thinking to myself man he has a lot of balls balancing his $5-6K in rifles on the edge of a peiced together picnic table.

A thrid party was called over to admire the Scars and he promptly bumped the table causing the 17 with scope to crash to the concrete. The 16 stayed on the table.

The sound of a Scar smacking concrete sounds just as bad as the sound of any other rifle hitting concrete but the crash of plastic and metal on concrete was somewhat muffled by the sound of the owners erect penis going limp light speed fast and swishing against the material of his undershorts. </div></div>


Oh Noes! Scarus interruptus!


My 1st .308 was an FN FAL, imported by Steyr, had two more from Gun South. I thought that FN could do no wrong. Then came the CAL.

After that, FN just didn't do it for me.

Take your SCAR and try to sell it. I'll try to sell my EMC. I wonder who's rifle would sell 1st, and which one would recoup a higher percentage of the original purchase price?

Parts?

Aftermarket parts?

Mags?

Service?


A weapon system that is a good fit for an army, may or may not be the rifle of choice for a civilian living in the States, for many reasons. At this point, the SCAR is still a boutique rifle with limited appeal. FN's turds are not white and odorless.
Neither are Knight's.

Is that bipod/vert grip made by Tapco?

A SCAR over an EMC? LOL.That's hysterical.
 
Re: KAC EMC vs. SCAR 17...which one...

Not having a dog in this fight seems to me the Nam GI's and Marines hated the Mattell M16A1. Turned out to be a darn god rifle. I own an LMT MWSE and really like it. I also own a SCAR 16S. Except for the lousy trigger pull it's a great shooter usually at or close to 1 moa.
 
Re: KAC EMC vs. SCAR 17...which one...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 7.62gunr</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Deadly0311</div><div class="ubbcode-body">M110 isnt a battle rifle its a sniper rifle/dmr gun. The EMC is. Lets compare apples to apples. Ive talked to SF guys that hate the Mk17 due to all the plastic.


So again, can you answer my as to why the AR platform doesn't make a good battle rifle platform, being that you are a bad ass armorer and all. </div></div>
You have talked to them and they hate it.......bullshit.
What's your MOS shitbag? Are you even prior service?
Do you think SOCOM picked the SCAR for it's cheap price tag? Do you have any idea just how finicky the Stoner gas system is? How shitty the mags are? The fact it can't really run dry? KAC does actually have the manufacturing ability to supply us but SOCOM has no interest. The next DMR will be a SCAR variant.
Go back to your mall ninja bullshit. How many of you people on here actually shoot past 400m? I have held man size at 800m with my SCAR and 30 year old Port surplus.....this is with a 6x DMR scope not some 24X nightforce. </div></div>

You obviously don't know me at all. I am a Retired Marine, was with STA platoon 3 of my 5 years. And if you had any common fucking sense you could read my name on here and it PLAINLY says my MOS. I have talked to SOTIC instructors, SEALs, Force Recon, Marsoc and the likes.

Likewise, I used to do alot of military sales for Hensoldt, talking to some Delta guys, SEALs, MARSOC and so on. You are an armorer, Ive held man sized silhouettes with my SR25 with an 8 power CQBSS out to 1K.

It looks to me that you fantabulous SCAR has at least a 14 power scope up top
confused.gif
 
Re: KAC EMC vs. SCAR 17...which one...

This is usually what happens when a dumbass runs his mouth... he meets someone that will challenge his "knowledge" with experience.

capalistic society men... choose as you will... I'll take an AR platform

2emh2jn.jpg
 
Re: KAC EMC vs. SCAR 17...which one...

Does the SCAR still use that lame ass reciprocating charging handle?

My brother, Austin, owner of Griffin Armament was part of the Field T&E with the scar in Iraq in 2008/2009.

I think if i recall right from memory he noted about 6 pages worth of deficiencies. One of them being the suppressor damn near welded to the barrel after a thousand rounds or so of shooting. And that was intermittent burst fire and high volume semi auto cycles... alot like the shooting schedules the carbine course attendees do. My point, (not full auto torture).

I never T&E'd it but I know from everything he said about it I never plan on owning one.

Today he owns an LMT MWS, for what its worth.
 
Re: KAC EMC vs. SCAR 17...which one...

Well, I have the smaller version of each (5.56) and I think they both are fantastic. The SCAR I run as a 10" CQC and I really like the folding stock and they way it just plain RUNS. The KAC is an SR-15e3 mod 1 SBR (14.5") and I love the smooth recoil pulse and the overall refined feeling.

Neither are for sale as I fully enjoy both.
2012-06-22193837.jpg

2012-05-04101724.jpg
 
Re: KAC EMC vs. SCAR 17...which one...

11b same shit I said but nobody wants to listen I stopped trying
 
Re: KAC EMC vs. SCAR 17...which one...

K_4c,
What kind of muzzle devices are you running there, if you don't mind me asking?

To the op,
I own a Scar heavy and an SR25 ECC (and an OBR 7.62) and all i'll add to this discussion is that if SHTF, regardless of which one of my battle rifles I happened to grab, I feel i'd be very well equipped. They all kick ass in their own ways.
 
Re: KAC EMC vs. SCAR 17...which one...

Lets step off the drama train for a little bit....

Both are good rifles.
The KAC will most likely be a little more accurate it will also be a bit heavier and cost almost twice what a SCAR costs. Its tuned to run on M118LR ammo and does great with that stuff. However many are hit or miss reliability wise with other ammo.

The SCAR needs some upgrades in my opinion to get it up to speed such as the PWS rail extention and the removal of the PWS brake. I have yet to find some .308 ammo that it wont run reliably. It runs everything from 110gn TAP to 175gn FGMM and all sorts of mil surplus inbetween. With quality ammo it will hold an honest 1.5 MOA.

For ME the SCAR is a better choice. It runs and runs on anything you feed it is lighter and less expensive even with the upgrades has a folding stock (which I never thought I'd use but actually use quite a bit) and is accurate enough to be a DMR. The KAC is a fine weapon and if you can afford to feed it M118LR it will serve you well.


Ok the drama train is back in the station so all aboard!
 
Re: KAC EMC vs. SCAR 17...which one...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Falsecrack</div><div class="ubbcode-body">K_4c,
What kind of muzzle devices are you running there, if you don't mind me asking?

To the op,
I own a Scar heavy and an SR25 ECC (and an OBR 7.62) and all i'll add to this discussion is that if SHTF, regardless of which one of my battle rifles I happened to grab, I feel i'd be very well equipped. They all kick ass in their own ways. </div></div>

TBAC 30-BA brake with the thread protector.
 
Re: KAC EMC vs. SCAR 17...which one...

I owned the SCAR17, SCAR16, EMC and SR15E3. After a good deal od shooting all 4 I prefer the KAC products so I sold the FN products. Reliability was not an issue for all 4. I have owned a lot of rifles and varients. I do not get emotionally attached to tools much. But I like that EMC much more than anything I have owned to date which has been a pretty good list.
 
Re: KAC EMC vs. SCAR 17...which one...

I would agree with KG Mauserman, if we were speaking of the old SR25s. The new EMC/ECC rifles are leaps and bounds ahead of the older SR25s. At the end of the day, 762gunr has still not given me any reason as to why the AR platform is a shitty battle rifle.
 
Re: KAC EMC vs. SCAR 17...which one...

I was in the first group to go through sniper school using both the M110 and the M24. We did our official quals with the 24 but we shot the 110's quite a bit. After the first day I had to swap lowers with my shooter/spotter every time I would shoot because mine would randomly shoot 2-3 round bursts. When I got back to my unit we recieved 10 brand new M110's, 3 immediately went back to the factory because of trigger issues. I understand the M110 and EMC are different rifles but they are obviously very similar. I personally would not buy a KAC rifle because of my experience with them, although I know some guys love them. I'm waiting for Noveske to release a gen 2 N6!
 
Re: KAC EMC vs. SCAR 17...which one...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: B4forever</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I was in the first group to go through sniper school using both the M110 and the M24. We did our official quals with the 24 but we shot the 110's quite a bit. After the first day I had to swap lowers with my shooter/spotter every time I would shoot because mine would randomly shoot 2-3 round bursts. When I got back to my unit we recieved 10 brand new M110's, 3 immediately went back to the factory because of trigger issues. I understand the M110 and EMC are different rifles but they are obviously very similar. I personally would not buy a KAC rifle because of my experience with them, although I know some guys love them. I'm waiting for Noveske to release a gen 2 N6! </div></div>

weird... hmmm
 
Re: KAC EMC vs. SCAR 17...which one...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: titus7</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Alright guys, if you owned a KAC EMC would you ever sale it to purchase a SCAR 17? Or maybe this would be easier if you were in a situation gone bad and there was an EMC and a SCAR17 laying on the floor next to each other which one would you grab and why?

Thanks in advance for your input </div></div>

While the SCAR is far from perfect, I feel that it has a lot of potential. However it would require time and money invested to bring out its full capabilities. In its current form, I think the SCAR gets the job done, although it is rough around the edges.

In the bad situation scenario, I'd probably grab the EMC, use it, then sell it for a SCAR in the future.
 
Re: KAC EMC vs. SCAR 17...which one...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: B4forever</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I was in the first group to go through sniper school using both the M110 and the M24. We did our official quals with the 24 but we shot the 110's quite a bit. After the first day I had to swap lowers with my shooter/spotter every time I would shoot because mine would randomly shoot 2-3 round bursts. When I got back to my unit we recieved 10 brand new M110's, 3 immediately went back to the factory because of trigger issues. I understand the M110 and EMC are different rifles but they are obviously very similar. I personally would not buy a KAC rifle because of my experience with them, although I know some guys love them. I'm waiting for Noveske to release a gen 2 N6! </div></div>

Probably trigger group a friend of mine had an issue with his he didnt trust it sold it for geisselle. Duds happen but for what he paid he was pissed.
 
Re: KAC EMC vs. SCAR 17...which one...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 7.62gunr</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The SCAR will shoot MOA...handles better for short and medium. It also does not shit all over itself.
I think most of you are AR fags at heart and are biased. I own 3 AR's but not a good choice in a battle rifle.
IMG_3375a.jpg
</div></div>

Nice grip pod.......fag.
 
Re: KAC EMC vs. SCAR 17...which one...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BigJoe</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: B4forever</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I was in the first group to go through sniper school using both the M110 and the M24. We did our official quals with the 24 but we shot the 110's quite a bit. After the first day I had to swap lowers with my shooter/spotter every time I would shoot because mine would randomly shoot 2-3 round bursts. When I got back to my unit we recieved 10 brand new M110's, 3 immediately went back to the factory because of trigger issues. I understand the M110 and EMC are different rifles but they are obviously very similar. I personally would not buy a KAC rifle because of my experience with them, although I know some guys love them. I'm waiting for Noveske to release a gen 2 N6! </div></div>

weird... hmmm </div></div>

actually this is not wierd... many early M110's had horrible trigger issues, and scope mount issues. One of my sections 2 m110's had a trigger go bad. About half of the snipers I talked to had triggers go bad, so much so that many didnt bring them over the pond but instead just took m24's.

I heard that most bad M110s were in the first 500 serial range which my units guns fell under.
 
Re: KAC EMC vs. SCAR 17...which one...

I'm not a big fan man that was sarcasm, I have thousands of rounds through m110's and I bought I gap10
 
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