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AIAE MkIII Cold Bore Issues *update*

H

hypno02

Not Politically Correct
Banned !
Minuteman
Jul 23, 2006
1,431
463
South Dakota
I have a brand new mkIII 24" .308 with less that 100 rounds down the tube. Luckily enough, my load (155amax 47gr varget)for the .308 I sold shoots under .5moa pretty easily.

Problem:

My cold bore is .2mil low time after time. Doesn't matter what range, it's been consistently .2mil low out past 800yds. After the first shot the next however many I decide to shoot pile up into less than .5moa at my POA what seems like every time.

I've read that in the past, this is a torque problem with the action screws. When ordering the rifle, Sean at MHS assured me the rifle would be properly torqued to 88.5" lbs.

Any suggestions other than buying my own $100+ torque wrench?

Thanks Fellas
 
Re: AIAE MkIII Cold Bore Issues

If the cold bore is repeatable as you said. Aim 2-tenths high for your cold bore and then followup with normal POA - done.
 
Re: AIAE MkIII Cold Bore Issues

That's what I've been doing. But if there's a way to fix it I'd rather it be perfect. There's no reason a $4,000 rifle should have cold bore shift.
 
Re: AIAE MkIII Cold Bore Issues

Honestly, I find it hard to believe the whole "cold bore" thing. Try this, next time you go out, get a buddy's rifle, an see if you get the cold bore shot with his, then since you have already "warmed up" to shooting for that day, see if you still get this first round flyer. I thought I was having this problem once, but after dry firing a good bit before shooting proved me wrong.
 
Re: AIAE MkIII Cold Bore Issues

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: hypno</div><div class="ubbcode-body">That's what I've been doing. But if there's a way to fix it I'd rather it be perfect. There's no reason a $4,000 rifle should have cold bore shift. </div></div>

If it is as repeatable as you say then you should be happy with it. Just hold slightly high or dial in 2 tenths and you should be nailing all of you cold bore shots.
 
Re: AIAE MkIII Cold Bore Issues

Sorry to hear about your AIAE having issues. Nothing spoils the 'sweetness' of a $4k rifle, than it not performing like you want it to. That being said, a Sako TRG-22 was the ONLY rifle I have ever owned in which there was NO change in the POI from cold bore to string fire. It would put 10 shots in the size of a dime at 100 yards, time after time.

The issue of "cold bore" is well documented, and is something regularly accounted for in BOTH the US Marines and US Army sniper schools. It is real, and repeatable. A book I just finished reading, "Triggermen" has James Gilliland even talking about cold-bore adjustments, and he gave what his M-24 rifle had to be adjusted for. I'm NOT saying your AIAE is supposed to have a cold-bore shift, but I am saying that I understand it's a real phenomenon, and most shooters simply document its effects, and adjust accordingly.

Hope this helps.
 
Re: AIAE MkIII Cold Bore Issues

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: remau308</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Honestly, I find it hard to believe the whole "cold bore" thing. Try this, next time you go out, get a buddy's rifle, an see if you get the cold bore shot with his, then since you have already "warmed up" to shooting for that day, see if you still get this first round flyer. I thought I was having this problem once, but after dry firing a good bit before shooting proved me wrong. </div></div>

This ^^^

Your rifle very well could have a cold bore shift, but I've found that on my custom guns, there is no shift at all. If there is any, it is me. Even on a Rock River LAR-8 Varmint model, I've put 10 shots into a 1/2 moa hole, that included the cold bore shot.

Anytime I go shooting anymore, I try to dry fire a few times before taking the first shot. It's vastly improved my first round it percentage.
 
Re: AIAE MkIII Cold Bore Issues

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: hypno</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have a brand new mkIII 24" .308 with less that 100 rounds down the tube. Luckily enough, my load (155amax 47gr varget)for the .308 I sold shoots under .5moa pretty easily.

Problem:

My cold bore is .2mil low time after time. Doesn't matter what range, it's been consistently .2mil low out past 800yds. After the first shot the next however many I decide to shoot pile up into less than .5moa at my POA what seems like every time.

I've read that in the past, this is a torque problem with the action screws. When ordering the rifle, Sean at MHS assured me the rifle would be properly torqued to 88.5" lbs.

Any suggestions other than buying my own $100+ torque wrench?

Thanks Fellas </div></div>

Same thing happen to my AI AE MK III 24" .2 mil below zero. I did try to torque to 89 in/lbs. Problem solved!

cold bore first five shot @ 100 yards using pulled SMK175
8092207474_0cdb4e827c_b.jpg



This is 2 months ago using Hornady 168gr HBPT after I re-torque my action to 89 in/lbs. Can't remember which group I shot my cold bore.

7715088966_4b0be535ff_c.jpg


My rifle:
8092177393_082459bc29_b.jpg
 
Re: AIAE MkIII Cold Bore Issues

Cold bore is a thing you always have to pay attention to. There is nothing wrong with your rifle. I dont believe the shooter error for first round I have only seen a couple rifles print the same as the following rounds going down range. my m24 I used in box always shot 2 moa down and 1.5 moa to the left and every chance I got before I had to go run around I would shoot a round on the fob range to get rid of the CB. Just like some people posted earlier just document and continue shooting.
 
Re: AIAE MkIII Cold Bore Issues

Funny I don't a single rifle that has cold bore issues. This includes my factory Remington's to my AIAE. Used to have cold shooter problems, got over it. YMMV.
 
Re: AIAE MkIII Cold Bore Issues

Is this issue being experienced after cleaning your rifle, or if you just let it sit and cool down?
 
Re: AIAE MkIII Cold Bore Issues

Sure it isn't that you're not used to the stock shape? Give it a little time.
 
Re: AIAE MkIII Cold Bore Issues

I agree I wasn't used to the thumb hole and thought my Mk III had a cold bore shift. I tried dry firing it before I shot and noticed I was pushing the gun high and to the right on the first shot.
 
Re: AIAE MkIII Cold Bore Issues

The first question I would ask is what do you typically do to the rifle between the last shot on the previous range trip, and the next "cold-bore" shot that is always 0.2 mil low. Do you clean your bore every time you shoot and are your "cold-bore" shots taken from a sparkly-clean bore? If so, you might try an extra few dry patches after cleaning before putting it away. Even a trace of residual oil or solvent in the bore can change your POI for the first shot by raising the pressure. The first shot will blow or burn most of it out, so you rarely see any effect by the second round. Also, if your low "cold-bore" shot has usually been taken from a clean barrel, try not cleaning after a range trip and see whether it's still low the next time out. Good luck.
 
Re: AIAE MkIII Cold Bore Issues

I rarely clean my rifles, and have yet to put anything but bullets down this barrel. Before I shoot, I typically dry fire to warm up like some of you have mentioned.

Perhaps it's me, perhaps not. Judging by some prior posts I've digged up from the dead and RonPogi's testimonial, this has been an issue with different AE rifles in the past.

I'll probably end up buying a decent torque wrench to verify just strictly for peace of mind. (and hopefully a solution) I'll need one to swap barrels in the future anyways.
 
Re: AIAE MkIII Cold Bore Issues

I always clean my rifle after shooting it from the range but to be honest I don't really see any difference clean or not. I already used it twice without cleaning and it still works perfectly.
 
Re: AIAE MkIII Cold Bore Issues

If the rounds "walk", meaning they string into the original POA, then you might find a solution with Torque,

However if only one shot is is out of the group and the rifle is fouled, I recommend looking at the shooter. This is usually a Cold Body / Cold Mind issue and not a rifle problem.

Adjusting the torque can fix certain issues with AE rifles, but they are usually much more pronounced and not very small, where one round is out and the rest group. Usually it is something more troubling as I mentioned, the "walk".

I have worked with a lot of AEs, including those who claimed to have cold bore issues and sent them in, in most cases, it's not the rifle. In some simply adjusting the torque helps, although I have seen a few hard cases where the first few shots are off, require the barrel torqued as well. However, the majority where one round is out, generally speaking NOT the rifle.

Here is what an issue looks like:

IMG_2158.jpg


That is an example of a problem.

Shoot something else first, as suggested, then go to the AE after you get the flinch out of your system and see what happens.

Cold Body / Cold Mind is real, it has been proven and defeated by several methods, to including dry firing and using a different rifle. We have taken those who claimed to have a cold bore deviation and reduced it or completely removed it by simply understanding it is there, then working to combat it.
 
Re: AIAE MkIII Cold Bore Issues

I'll look into it, dry fire about 800 times before my next trip out, and if all else fails buy a torque wrench. I'll keep all yall updated.

Thanks for the help!
 
Re: AIAE MkIII Cold Bore Issues

What torque wrenches do you all use for this? I have the wrench to change the barrel but it does not allow for a bit to put an allen wrench in.
 
Re: AIAE MkIII Cold Bore Issues

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: hypno</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'll look into it, dry fire about 800 times before my next trip out, and if all else fails buy a torque wrench. I'll keep all yall updated.

Thanks for the help! </div></div>

Invest in a torque wrench regardless. You invested in a top-tier rifle, throw out the relatively minimal extra cash to properly support it (and other rifles).
 
Re: AIAE MkIII Cold Bore Issues

Well I do have a FAT wrench which has worked for everything up until now. >65"lbs
 
Re: AIAE MkIII Cold Bore Issues

For non AE owners - what are you torquing? The barrel to the action or the action to the stock?

TIA


Good luck
 
Re: AIAE MkIII Cold Bore Issues

<span style="color: #FF0000"><span style="font-size: 20pt"><span style="font-weight: bold">Update</span></span></span>

I pulled the barrelled action, retorqued the screws and got back out and shot the rifle.

After re-torquing, the fellas at AINA suggested I shoot three shots to 'settle' the receiver into the chassis. Well, being a college kid who lived 30+ miles from the closest shooting location this was not an option. So I shoot my first shot at 100 yards. .2 mils low. The rifle continued to hammer the rest of the day after that first shot so I figured I'd get over it and live with it. (I could send it to AINA and they'd fix it free of charge if it was a true issue, but hunting season is much too close.)

Next time out my first shot at 100yds was dead on at 100yds, along with the next two. Next time out, first shot at 500yds was right on...along with the next one.

Perhaps the chassis needed to settle, needed to be retorqued. Maybe the barrel needed to be 'more' broken in. Perhaps I'm getting more used to the rifle. Either way, the problem seems to have been eliminated which I am thankful for.

Thanks for the help everyone.
 
Re: AIAE MkIII Cold Bore Issues

Grahams AE does the exact same thing. He calculates .2 for cold bore, takes it off for the follow up shot and its money every time. Its completely a factual condition OF THE RIFLE.
But its known to him, and well documented, and identical every time, so it is an issue, but is easily overcome.
 
Re: AIAE MkIII Cold Bore Issues

I had an issue with mine this weekend where the cold bore round was way off to the right. When I got home I found the action screws could be tightened slightly more. Hoping this takes care of the issue. What torque wrenches are you all using for the action screws. What bits use the allen screws?
 
Re: AIAE MkIII Cold Bore Issues

For Ae rifles, a 5mm metric bit must be used. Per the guys at aina, they instructed me to snug the front bolt, snug the rear, then torque the front then the rear. Do all of this with the muzzle in the air in order to assure the recoil lugs sits properly in the chassis.

I bought a craftsman "lb wrench from sears. The one with the 90 day warranty. According to reviews on the net, it wasn't very reliable. So I technically borrowed it from sears
wink.gif


I'll buy a more expensive one when the time comes to swap barrels.
 
Re: AIAE MkIII Cold Bore Issues

Thanks hypno. I bought the big torque wrench from AI to torque the barrel. Wish there was a bit available to use the same wrench. Without the right wrench I just tightened the hell out of the screws and will try again this week.
 
Re: AIAE MkIII Cold Bore Issues

SNAP-ON has an inch/pound wrench that also is newton meters that I have used for 20 years. It's is very accurate down in the low numbers from 15 in/lbs to 110 in/lbs. But then I have the set from this to 750 ft/lbs so I have not looked into the smaller T-handle driver torque wrenches.

Good luck
...MJ...
 
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