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Rifle Scopes First bolt gun, quality glass but budget friendly

J

JC PAINT WORKZ

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Minuteman
Oct 11, 2012
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Im getting ready to make my purchase (still debating the 700P or the 700 5R in .308. I'm looking for some quality glass but at a decent price with some functions. Original budget was 700ish for the weaver it really don't want to go more then the 1000 for the viper.

I was originally looking at the weaver 4-20x50 ffp as a member on another forum had a 700Vs for sale with this glass on it and it got sold before I could pick it up. So going by what he stated I was leaning towards that.

I was then Reffered to the vortex viper pst 6-24x50 ffp on here in my bolt gun thread. I like the fact they have a lifetime transferable warranty and I'm reading good things about their CS. Plus I like it is illuminated.

I'm still lost on MOA/MIL and have been reading up to find out what's best. I'm also lost on the two different reticles and have been reading up on which one would suit my needs

That leads me into my needs/wants. I would like to be able to swap this scope out on my AR15 if possible I'm really just wanting a really good setup for a beginner and something I can build into later. I'm goings to be mainly just hitting paper from 100-300 mainly and thinking about joining a club range that offers up to 1000 yards. My grandparents-in-laws have 350 acres about 3 hours away and we are down there few times a year as well. Their house is about the same distance to both 1000 yard ranges plus I could have meals fed to me and have a place to crash lol oh yea and no membership fees lol

I know this has been long but trying to get everything out in the open. Anything else I'm missing just ask. Thanks in advance.

Oh yea and suggestions for mounting options appreciated too. 1 piece rail system or 2 piece and rings?
 
Re: First bolt gun, quality glass but budget friendly

You will probably need to change ring height from flat top ar to rem 700 to get a good cheek weld. For example I use extra high rings on my ar and medium on my 700 with a 50mm objective. Someone else may have a better option.
Moa vs mil is preference. I would look at the math using each system and go with the one that makes more sense to me. Welcome and hope this helps
 
Re: First bolt gun, quality glass but budget friendly

I would reccomend theVortex PST FFP as a budget friendly scope with great features and service <1K. a 4-16X50 would work on a bolt or gas gun. IMHO
As for whether you want Mil or MOA adjustments, it is really a preference thing. I use MOA because it makes sense to me. it is what i learned and am comfortable with. i suggest you reaserch the way the work, pick one, and learn it.
if you are planning to move the scope bwtween guns a stated, i would work with Pic rails and quick detach rings. this will allow a similar base on each gun and ease transfer. There will likely still be some adjusting of the reticle due to potential differneces in the cant of the base, caliber changes, etc..
hope this starts you off well.
 
Re: First bolt gun, quality glass but budget friendly

My brother has used a Konus M30 6.5-25X44 Illuminated (red and blue can be chosen) scope on his Remy 308 SPS for over 2 years without any problems at all. I usually by Nightforce scopes and lately bought 2 Vortex PST 4-16 FFP scopes. When I compared the optical quality of his Konus to the PST I could not see any difference in clarity or resolution. Needing another scope for my SIG 516 I decided to get the Konus M30 and have not been disappointed. From SWFA the scope is $329.95 and I am very happy with it. Only thing I don't care for it has moa adjustments and a mil dot reticle but that isn't a game changer for me. A Nightforce it isn't but compares favorably to the Vortex scopes I bought.
 
Re: First bolt gun, quality glass but budget friendly

one more thing that ocured to me, make sure whatever scope you go with has matching turrets and reticle. MIL/MIL,or MOA/MOA
 
Re: First bolt gun, quality glass but budget friendly

JC Paint, do you reload or are you going to be buying ammo, I ask because match ammo costs. For a rifle its going to be hard to beat the 700 5R, these rifles are showing great accuracy out of the box. As for rings and bases, good quality is hard to beat but there some inexpensive options and weavers base seems to be one of them. For a scope, any quality scope with good glass that you can buy will work, whether its sfp or ffp, matching turrets or not. Keep looking in the used optics section for deals, since you are not competing, theres no need for bells and whistles.
 
Re: First bolt gun, quality glass but budget friendly

I just purchased my reloading set up about a month ago. I have been fooling around with .40 and have stuff to do .223. I have been depriming, resizing, and priming for now. I'm taking a class next week at a local supply shop to familiarize myself before getting in too deep, although I have researched for several months on the subject

I plan in the near future to reload .308 as well
 
Re: First bolt gun, quality glass but budget friendly

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JC PAINT WORKZ</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Im getting ready to make my purchase (still debating the 700P or the 700 5R in .308. I'm looking for some quality glass but at a decent price with some functions. Original budget was 700ish for the weaver it really don't want to go more then the 1000 for the viper.

I was originally looking at the weaver 4-20x50 ffp as a member on another forum had a 700Vs for sale with this glass on it and it got sold before I could pick it up. So going by what he stated I was leaning towards that.

I was then Reffered to the vortex viper pst 6-24x50 ffp on here in my bolt gun thread. I like the fact they have a lifetime transferable warranty and I'm reading good things about their CS. Plus I like it is illuminated.

I'm still lost on MOA/MIL and have been reading up to find out what's best. I'm also lost on the two different reticles and have been reading up on which one would suit my needs

That leads me into my needs/wants. I would like to be able to swap this scope out on my AR15 if possible I'm really just wanting a really good setup for a beginner and something I can build into later. I'm goings to be mainly just hitting paper from 100-300 mainly and thinking about joining a club range that offers up to 1000 yards. My grandparents-in-laws have 350 acres about 3 hours away and we are down there few times a year as well. Their house is about the same distance to both 1000 yard ranges plus I could have meals fed to me and have a place to crash lol oh yea and no membership fees lol

I know this has been long but trying to get everything out in the open. Anything else I'm missing just ask. Thanks in advance.

Oh yea and suggestions for mounting options appreciated too. 1 piece rail system or 2 piece and rings?</div></div>
SWFA also has nice optics for the price. If you can stick with fixed power $300 bucks will get you a 10x. They hold zero, track true, and have decent glass. More then your budget but the 5-20x50 is nice too. You can find them for sale in the optics section used for a nice price close to your budget.
 
Re: First bolt gun, quality glass but budget friendly

You are on the right track, buy good dies, they will make the job easier from the begining. Get the 5R, decent rings and mount, and as suggested a decent scope and go shooting. Honestly getting a good fixed power ike the SWFA 10X is an excellent idea.
 
Re: First bolt gun, quality glass but budget friendly

on a whim i picked up one of the Vortex Viper PA series. the 6.5-20 Mildot. Think i paid $429 for it on midway. Glass is good, turrets feel good and it tracks well. Honestly, I'm not a tactical shooter so the mil/mil and FFP didnt matter to me. Neither did a lum reticle. I still use the mil for ranging and for a more advantaged second shot. None the less, ive been pretty happy with it for a budget optic. To be fair its comparable to say a Nikon Monarch series.

http://www.vortexoptics.com/product/vortex-viper-6-5-20x44-pa-riflescope-mil-dot-reticle/reticle
 
Re: First bolt gun, quality glass but budget friendly

I have a Rem 5R with a SS 10x42 and I am very satisfied. I have the sense that SWFA scopes are a bargain for the money. If you want a higher quality scope, you'll have to pay considerably more. My 5R out of the box has been a tack driver. Again, you can get a custom rifle that could be much nicer and exactly what you want, but it will cost you lots more, also.
 
Re: First bolt gun, quality glass but budget friendly

I have a vortex in a quick detach mount to switch between two scar rifles one 223 and the other 308, great scope! i love Voretex!! binos, spotting scopes for the money, the best value i know of currently on the market!! I also own very high end stuff zeiss binos, 4 Night forces scopes leupold mark 4's and wish vortex was there whe i was purcahsing all that stuff would have saved alot of cash.
 
Re: First bolt gun, quality glass but budget friendly

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: quietbullet</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have a vortex in a quick detach mount to switch between two scar rifles one 223 and the other 308, great scope! i love Voretex!! binos, spotting scopes for the money, the best value i know of currently on the market!! I also own very high end stuff zeiss binos, 4 Night forces scopes leupold mark 4's and wish vortex was there whe i was purcahsing all that stuff would have saved alot of cash. </div></div>
Any suggestions on quick detach mounts? I might just end up putting the Aimpoint Pro on the AR since I dont get to use it past 100 yards at the range I take it too. That might change though once I get my 5R in and starting going to this other range. I have a feeling I'll be taking the AR out there a lot more too.

does it return to zero on your switches?
 
Re: First bolt gun, quality glass but budget friendly

If you get a quality 1 piece mount, you can put a riser on the AR rail to allow you the ability to use the same mount on both guns. Search on here to find great info on QD mounts and buy one to fit your bolt, and the riser will get you the extra hight you need on the AR. Obviously not as ideal as dedicated glass but it will be budget-friendly.
 
Re: First bolt gun, quality glass but budget friendly

On the scope it is really only between vertex and weaver in $500-$1000 range unless you want to pay $1250+ for a used SS 5-20 or Bushnell 3-21. On scope rings the only reasonably priced one priced mount I would consider is the Badger ordinance unit. The machining quality and attention to detail wont match Seekins or other high quality rings but its still a nice mount.
 
Re: First bolt gun, quality glass but budget friendly

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JC PAINT WORKZ</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: quietbullet</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have a vortex in a quick detach mount to switch between two scar rifles one 223 and the other 308, great scope! i love Voretex!! binos, spotting scopes for the money, the best value i know of currently on the market!! I also own very high end stuff zeiss binos, 4 Night forces scopes leupold mark 4's and wish vortex was there whe i was purcahsing all that stuff would have saved alot of cash. </div></div>
Any suggestions on quick detach mounts? I might just end up putting the Aimpoint Pro on the AR since I dont get to use it past 100 yards at the range I take it too. That might change though once I get my 5R in and starting going to this other range. I have a feeling I'll be taking the AR out there a lot more too.

does it return to zero on your switches? </div></div>

I have both my Vortex PST's and several Nightforce scopes in a Burris PERP detachable mount and it has worked out great for me. But I have never been able to switch a scope from one rifle to another without having to zero the scope all over again. Not a good idea IMO.
 
Re: First bolt gun, quality glass but budget friendly

About Vortex service - excellent in my experience. I have a Vortex PST 1-4x24 on my AR. Bought it from EuroOptics. Alex is a good guy to work with, BTW. It arrived and #3 illum setting was dead. Called Vortex. Had the return call tag (no chg to return ship) info in 2 hrs. Had it back in 10 days, no charge, including repair explanation (bad solder joint between switch and control PCB). Can't beat that.

I am using a Weaver 20 MOA aluminum base on my 40X action. I had to bed it to the top of action, as I think the fabrication drawings are slightly
in error on the angle of the forward contact surface to get a no-stress uniform receiver top contact. A better base will run you over $100, but may be worth it.
It is a one-time purchase for the rifle, so spending a little more is probably worth it.

I'd look at the ADM AD-RECON QC mount ($180 range, a lot less $ than the LaRue ($280 range), and nearly as good) in height to fit your scope-bolt gun combo.

Use a ½" riser block on your AR flat-top to mount the scope in the ADM mount on your AR at nominally the correct height.

Once you get your load dope for both rifles, you should be able to dial a zero adjustment on the scope and be within 0.5 mil (~2 MOA)
on your point-of-impact when switching (if you are consistent in installing and locking down the mount when changing). If the rifles shoot good
(sub-MOA accuracy), then 1 shot after change will give you the final zero adjustment. If you are just shooting paper at the range, you really
don't need to reset your turret zero position. I'd zero the scope on the bolt gun, find the zero correction when mounting on the AR, and make a dope chart
for the AR that has the offset elevation and windage zeros accounted for. PM me if you need further explanation on how to do this.

I think the Vortex PST or the Weaver Tactical will either be a good choice for your casual range use where extreme durability is not a major concern (you'll pay a lot more for that durability factor). If you are looking for bullseye accuracy at 600+ yds, you may find the fixed 10x scope a bit limiting, although a lot less $ than equivalent quality variable X model. I personally would look to at least 15-16x mag, and 20 to 25X max if your budget can handle it.

It is true what another responder said - consider the gear versus ammo price. Match-grade ammo in .308 is in the $1.50-$1.75 pr round range.
It costs me about $0.60/round in components (Varget powder, SMK175 bullets, primers, all bought in bilk quantity containers/lots/cases) to reload.
If you want to load accurate ammo, and have your brass last as long as possible, get the Redding S-type FL Match die set ($145 range) with the correct neck size bushing
($20) for your particular brass neck wall thickness, and you'll need the competition graduated shell holder set to optimize case sizing for your rifle's chamber.
Initial case prep takes time, and then I can load about 50-75 rounds/hr (running single stage press, and manual powder measure/trickle on a digital scale).
If you put a fair number of rounds down range on a regular basis, the ammo cost (components + time or factory ammo cost) quickly passes the all the gear costs.

Probably not what you want to hear :- (, but it is a fact and you need to account for it in your shooting budget.

I am painfully aware of budget considerations when acquiring gear to get set up for CF rifle shooting, as I am just getting back into it after 20+ years just shooting shotgun. I'm running a budget Weaver Kaspa scope right now ($225 range), but am saving to hopefully get the new Gen 2 Bushnell DMR scope early next year.

Long post, but hope that helps.
 
Re: First bolt gun, quality glass but budget friendly

A budget friendly rock-solid mounting system is the Leupold dual dovetail system. I align the rings then lap em. I absolutely hate a rail on a short action rifle as it hinders my big fingers from loading rounds and seems to turn the left raceway into a cartridge magnet. As for scopes on a budget I chose this:

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/229252/...x-reticle-matte

It has all the features I need:
7mm exit pupil for low-light shooting
Glass etched reitcle instead of wire
Besides that I ordered $317.98 worth of stuff which qualified me for $35 off $300 and then the $30 rebate gives me this scope for
$249.99 minus $35 minus $30 equals $184.99 for the scope and free shipping.
 
Re: First bolt gun, quality glass but budget friendly

5R .308
SWFA 10x Mil/MIl SS
EGW base
Badger rings
Triad Stock Pack
Harris 6-9 swivel bi-pod
TAB gear or Slip Cuff sling
 
Re: First bolt gun, quality glass but budget friendly

You might add the Bushnell Elite 6-24x50 G2DMR to your list...Liberty Otpics has great prices on them, cheaper than the PST FFP.
 
Re: First bolt gun, quality glass but budget friendly

TPS 30mm Rings (low)
Burris Tactical 30mm Rings (low)
Warne 20moa one piece Picatinney base
Super Sniper 10x HD Mil/Mil
Super Sniper 12x Mil/Mil
Super Sniper 16x Mil/Mil
Weaver 3-15 50mm Mil/Mil
Weaver 4-20 50mm Mil/Mil
Viper 4-16 50mm Mil/Mil

My recommendation however is to save your pennies for a few months and pick up a used Bushnell HDMR G2. Probably the best bang for the buck in the 1000 to 2000 dollar range. A close second would be the Super Sniper 5-20 HD Mil/Mil.

Good luck..
 
Re: First bolt gun, quality glass but budget friendly

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Santo</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JC PAINT WORKZ</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: quietbullet</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have a vortex in a quick detach mount to switch between two scar rifles one 223 and the other 308, great scope! i love Voretex!! binos, spotting scopes for the money, the best value i know of currently on the market!! I also own very high end stuff zeiss binos, 4 Night forces scopes leupold mark 4's and wish vortex was there whe i was purcahsing all that stuff would have saved alot of cash. </div></div>
Any suggestions on quick detach mounts? I might just end up putting the Aimpoint Pro on the AR since I dont get to use it past 100 yards at the range I take it too. That might change though once I get my 5R in and starting going to this other range. I have a feeling I'll be taking the AR out there a lot more too.

does it return to zero on your switches? </div></div>

I have both my Vortex PST's and several Nightforce scopes in a Burris PERP detachable mount and it has worked out great for me. But I have never been able to switch a scope from one rifle to another without having to zero the scope all over again. Not a good idea IMO.</div></div>

same, i use QD stuff on my semi's when im trying to store or transport in tight spaces. outside of the the thought of re-zeroing every time is a hassle.
 
Re: First bolt gun, quality glass but budget friendly

Ok I'm ordering the vortex 6-24x50 FFP and looking at the seekins rings and base for y 700 5R.

I'm trying to figure out which rings and base I need. I know I need 30mm rings but I see there is high/med/low rings, and 4screw and 4/6 screw rings

Then there is 0, 20, 30 MOA bases and #6, and #8 screws.

I totally lost on this. Does the 5R have #6 or 8 screws and what base
 
Re: First bolt gun, quality glass but budget friendly

#6. Go with the 20 MOA base. You will be fine with 4 screw rings.
 
Re: First bolt gun, quality glass but budget friendly

I ordered my scope from Opticsplanet they said it had a availability in 5-15 days when I placed my order. I got back on there today and their site is now showing 29-39 days for availability.

Are the PST's on backorder from Vortex or is this just a opticsplanet thing?
 
Re: First bolt gun, quality glass but budget friendly

From what I have seen they are in very high demand... almost impossible around here to find one.
 
Re: First bolt gun, quality glass but budget friendly

I started out long range with a 16X SWFA Super Sniper. Great scope, $300.00. Tracks perfectly, good glass. Having gotten a little more serious about LR, I have upgraded scopes with very good results. At 1,000 yards 16X didn't let me see enough to compete, but it WAS enough to get me hooked... 25X or more is better (condition dependent). Straight 16X is probably too high for a general use rifle.

Excellent glass for LR is $900+, great glass is, as you know, "the sky's the limit." Choose your reticle wisely for its intended use.

<span style="font-weight: bold">Anything you're going to buy, look through it first if at all possible.</span> I just examined a NIB variable-power "LR" scope in the $800 range and found that, when cranked above 20X, it wasn't clear at all, the field of view became noticeably oblong, and the eye box was intolerable. Very crisp and bright at lower power.
 
Re: First bolt gun, quality glass but budget friendly

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JC PAINT WORKZ</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Ok I'm ordering the vortex 6-24x50 FFP and looking at the seekins rings and base for y 700 5R.

I'm trying to figure out which rings and base I need. I know I need 30mm rings but I see there is high/med/low rings, and 4screw and 4/6 screw rings

Then there is 0, 20, 30 MOA bases and #6, and #8 screws.

I totally lost on this. Does the 5R have #6 or 8 screws and what base </div></div>

I have the Seekins 20 MOA Remington short action #6 screws base with Vortex medium Rings.

Fits 6-24 Vortex perfect.
 
Re: First bolt gun, quality glass but budget friendly

Did you order MOA or MIL?
I ordered mine from opticsplanet on the 12th of Oct.......knowing that it was out of stock. Still waiting....trying to be patient.
 
Re: First bolt gun, quality glass but budget friendly

Lots of great info here! Vortex PST is an awesome scope. Good luck!
 
Re: First bolt gun, quality glass but budget friendly

Bushnell Elite tactical with ADM mount
 
Re: First bolt gun, quality glass but budget friendly

I think I ordered on the 29 of Oct. it just raised their estimated time couple days ago<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sp2Pilot</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Did you order MOA or MIL?
I ordered mine from opticsplanet on the 12th of Oct.......knowing that it was out of stock. Still waiting....trying to be patient. </div></div>
 
Re: First bolt gun, quality glass but budget friendly

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JC PAINT WORKZ</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I think I ordered on the 29 of Oct. it just raised their estimated time couple days ago<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sp2Pilot</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Did you order MOA or MIL?
I ordered mine from opticsplanet on the 12th of Oct.......knowing that it was out of stock. Still waiting....trying to be patient. </div></div></div></div>

Dude, if I was you I would cancel your optics planet order and get this, Bushnell 3-21. It's FFP/MRAD. Built like a tank:
http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=3672216&gonew=1#UNREAD

The price is effectively a wash once you include the fact that this scope comes with 34mm Seekins rings. BTW, I run a Vortex Razor and my wife uses a 6-24PST; but, this is a good deal.

Opticsplanet pulls the BS of listing an item on their website, only to tell you it's on backorder after you've made the decision to purchase. On this forum I have read several posts from others have endured that inconvenience as well (they do make good recommendations on products if you're not sure on what to get or want suggestions on a substitute product, and they give no grief when you cancel the order).
 
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