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Ar vs. scar/acr

R

rickey

Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
Nov 17, 2011
137
1
35
La Porte, TX
I'm new to semi auto rifles and was reading that the fn scar and Remington/ bushmaster acr are not as accurate as allot of the ar's in the same price range.... What makes the ar so much better...? I know the scar is different in allot of ways but the acr seams to have taken allot of of the same parts.... Are the ar's more accurate because they have been worked over or what am I missing....?

Thanks
 
Re: Ar vs. scar/acr

Many argue that the a DI system is more accurate. Additionally, we already know how to make an AR accurate; float the barrel, install a match barrel, and roll.
 
Re: Ar vs. scar/acr

Sorry what does di stand for? And could most of the things we know about how to make an ar more accurate translate over to the acr......
 
Re: Ar vs. scar/acr

DI= Direct impingement is a type of gas operation for a firearm that directs gas from a fired cartridge directly to the bolt carrier or slide assembly to cycle the action.

Ok, I might get hit up side the head by the piston crowd (waiting for killshot's response).... usually, a DI semi-auto is more accurate than a piston semi-auto.... OMG, I said it!! LOL (looks for cover from incoming piston fired rounds).... less moving parts? LOL, OK OK, I'll stop.

Doesn't someone have that "beating a dead horse" pic around here somewhere?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rickey</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Sorry what does di stand for? And could most of the things we know about how to make an ar more accurate translate over to the acr...... </div></div>
 
Re: Ar vs. scar/acr

Ok makes since. Maybe a dumb question but can you make a scar or acr into a di?
 
Re: Ar vs. scar/acr

i wouldn't worry about it.... that's what makes a scar a scar,,, it's a piston rifle.... some pep's might blow up here, but a scar is not a sub moa rifle, it's a battle rifle. You should be happy if you're getting 1-1/2" 5shot groups @ 100yards with a scar.

if you want a sub-moa semi-auto rifle, usually, but not all the time, you should get a DI AR in something other than .308 (like 6.5 creed or 260, but you better reload as the ammo is not easy to get / cost $$ money unlike .308) and with a nice heavy bull barrel,,,, BUT it's going to be a bench rifle...not a easy to carry battle rifle.

realistic world, yes, you might see under 1" 5shot groups with a scar once in a blue moon, but that's not what it is for... Scar is for heavy duty battle ass kicking fun. The scar is a 1-1/2"moa @ 100yards type of rifle dependant upon first the shooter, and then the glass you slap on it. Red dot or scope.

all rifles have different purpose and different design. scar's are nice light weight with really low recoil!!


<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rickey</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Ok makes since. Maybe a dumb question but can you make a scar or acr into a di? </div></div>
 
Re: Ar vs. scar/acr

Technically you can do anything with enough money. Realistically, no you can not convert them to DI.

All 3 weapon systems are good to go, I prefer the ACR because it uses AR-15 barrels and works for me, some prefer the Scar because of the weight, and others prefer the Ar15's because its the current military rifle and can be heavily modified for less than most rifles factory.
 
Re: Ar vs. scar/acr

Yea big dog those were some of the attractive features I saw as well. That and the charging handle. I hate the rear handle on the ar. I was looking at the scar and acr to possibly try a three gun competition but was a Lil concerned about the accuracy. I know I have to do my part but I just want to eliminate as many variables as possible. Then the only one I can blame is myself....;(
 
Re: Ar vs. scar/acr

When it's not the months/weeks/days leading up to an election, you can usually find 100 different versions of any AR part.

The (usual) abundance of parts and the ability of most people to build/maintain an AR with a few tools is probably the best reason to own an AR.

I shot a SCAR. I don't like reciprocating charging handles. The gun also felt big but felt relatively balanced.

I also shot an ACR. The ACR feels more compact in the hands than the SCAR, but is noticably heavier.

At the end of the day, you could build an AR with a couple different uppers for the price of a SCAR or ACR.
 
Re: Ar vs. scar/acr

Rickey,

First off, I will begin with my conclusion-don't buy the SCAR cuz it's the best bang for the buck in a 3 Gun rifle. Buy it cuz you think it f***ing cool, man.

Now, I've been running my Flat Dark Earth (FDE) SCAR 16 since about November 2010. I've shot thousands of rounds through it and participated in a whole bunch of carbine and multi-gun matches with it, as well. I've shot it fast, up close, and I've shot it accurately, at distance. So, here are some observations I've made:

It's not heavy. Well, not until you add an extended rail, a foregrip, and a light. But the extra weight is nice, it balances out the gun and keeps it from jumping around during rapid fire.

It is wonderfully reliable. I think I've cleaned it three times since I have purchased it. I just pour in more lube (TW25) and keep shooting. I've shot PRVI 75, Hornady 75, GI green tip, PMC 55, Winchester 55/62, Wolf 55/62/75, and a bunch of 62 grain reloads-it eats everything. I prefer metal mags. Every now and then, when I get all amped up, I can cause a malfunction by over-inserting a plastic Pmag. My favorite mags are C-Products steel mags, GI mags work fine, as well. Lancers have been hanging up on the first round, using PRVI 75 grain, so I am cautiously trying them out, but only at the range.

It is wonderfully accurate. I would dare say that it is consistently a 1 moa gun. I've taken my AR's out and shot both side by side, and my SCAR will keep up with my Noveske Afghan, as far as accuracy goes.

It is wonderfully ergonomic. Real comfy stock, easily adjustable length, comb (the top) of the stock pops up and puts you perfectly in line with your optic. Put rail covers on it-it gets hot around the piston. I would improve on the ergos by adding an extended rail system by VLTOR or PWS, to get your hand out farther and adopt the new high thumb-far forward support hand grip that many people prefer these days. More rail will also allow you to run a light for self-defense use, or night matches. I have a short Troy foregrip on mine, more as a hand-stop than anything-I also have my light's pressure switch attached to it. I like my VTac slings. The factory sights are AR 15 height and adequate. I went with Troy flip ups, myself-just out of preference.

Controls:
I've never had an issue with the reciprocating charging handle. It hit my thumb once while I was grabbing the magazine well, and I have never had it happen again. You can lock the bolt open with one hand, because the bolt catch and the charging handle can be configured on the same side. The safety is fine for me, somebody makes aftermarket safety levers, but I've never had issues. It has a gas system that allows regular and adverse settings, but I've never needed to switch to the adverse setting due to malfunctions, dirt, etc. The trigger is heavy and milspec, and the hammer is beefy and whacks the ever-living s**t out of primers. I would trade up to a Geisselle (sp?) match trigger if you want a smoother trigger on a dedicated 3Gun rifle. Its gonna cost you though.

It is wonderfully compact:
I had my barrel cut down to 14.5 inches (By High Desert Dog) and I pinned/welded on a Surefire Muzzle brake. I like the compact length and side folding stock. When folded, it fits in a High Speed Gear Discrete Rifle Bag, which I can walk out of the house with and it does not SCREAM rifle. For trips to "the Border" (I'm from there) I can fit the SCAR-loaded with 20 round mag, and a chest rig with 8 loaded mags, all in the D Bag.

SO, I've shot a bunch with it. I've had some good results in local matches and held my own in big matches. I am attaching some pics of matches I shot with it in different configurations. I use an Aimpoint H-1 red dot sight for close range matches, and a Leupold HAMR for longer range stuff. Like I said, the SCAR is plenty accurate. When I took it out to the Fallen Brethren 3 Gun match this past October, I went 5 for 5 on 9" plates at ranges from 250-360yds. The gun RUNS, man!

So, if you are looking for a dependable, accurate, easily transportable rifle for self defense and competition, and money is no object-get a SCAR. If you want a very accurate soft recoiling gun that is more budget friendly, you can get something like a Daniel Defense V5 with all good components and a good variable powered 1-4 scope, for about the same price as the SCAR alone. I am biased toward Noveske rifles with stainless barrels, as far as ARs are concerned. I've had lot of ARs, but Noveske is my favorite.

PM me if you have questions or need anything.

Texas Tactical Carbine Match, San Antonio, TX

Cedar Ridge SCAR 2 by CUSTOMGLOCKFAN, on Flickr

FB3Gun Match, - the targets are the little tombstones on the right

FB3G SCAR Helo1 by CUSTOMGLOCKFAN, on Flickr

NRA LE 3 Gun Match - Liberty Hill, TX

TPC 3G 1 by CUSTOMGLOCKFAN, on Flickr
 
Re: Ar vs. scar/acr

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rickey</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Yea big dog those were some of the attractive features I saw as well. That and the charging handle. I hate the rear handle on the ar. I was looking at the scar and acr to possibly try a three gun competition but was a Lil concerned about the accuracy. I know I have to do my part but I just want to eliminate as many variables as possible. Then the only one I can blame is myself....;(

</div></div>


As far as accuracy, all 3 of them should be MOA or less, I've had MOA groups consistently with my ACR's using pmc 55gr. I've had really good luck using hornady 75gr match rounds too, which makes me believe its closer to a 1/8 twist.

If you can, I'd give them all a try and see what you like. Keep in mind the ACR has a flash hider vs the Scar pws brake, so the recoil should be similar between the two.

I also agree with 1911 above, if you go ar15 get a Noveske, they are damn smooth rifles.
 
Re: Ar vs. scar/acr

Thanks Custom1911fan I really do like the looks of the scar and acr way better then any ar! Just thought everyone on here would just focus on that if I mentioned that.... Also I didn't want to pay more for a less accurate gun. However it doesn't sound like your having any problem with that! Nice pics and thank you!
 
Re: Ar vs. scar/acr

Like all the other guys say, a SCAR and a finely built AR are different animals not to be compaired I think. I dont take my SCAR out if I want to shoot tight and technical. The SCAR is my trunk monkey/hammer, It is a ass kicking tool. Just like my AR is built for SPR type shooting, it has a heavy barrel on it so its harder to shoot off hand, its ment for supported shooting and stacking lead.

photo4.jpg



scar5.jpg
 
Re: Ar vs. scar/acr

SCAR's just look "bulky" compared to the AR platform IMO

Take that with a grain of salt though, as I've never gotten behind one. Just my stand point from an initial appearance. Appearances may be deceiving though!
 
Re: Ar vs. scar/acr

Maverick26 scar looks bulky because of the extended rails. But I still like it
 
Re: Ar vs. scar/acr

The word of the day is modularity, you can make an ar into absolutely anything you want as your skills, tastes, missions dictate along the way, not so much with a scar or acr.

Now they are fine platforms but why not get a system you can adapt cheaper and more easily, just food for thought
 
Re: Ar vs. scar/acr

True VJJ, there is not much you can do with the SCAR other then shoot it.

Even with the extended rail my SCAR 17 weighs less then my AR. Not sure that will stay that way since I just got the new aluminum lower for the SCAR so I can run Pmags.
 
Re: Ar vs. scar/acr

My mission is for three gun competition rifle and hogs. I've never been an auto crazy guy. Don't get me wrong I love to go crazy with te trigger but its never been the type shooting I've done. And it gets expensive quick.... Just not sure what I need to adapt an at to do that the scar can't do or vice versa. Biggest thing I'm seeing is price. However just watched a YouTube video about berrettas new arx 160 and may have another rifle to look at when released..... I really liked how they have it in 22 as well that would be great for cheap fun/practice o decisions!... ; )
 
Re: Ar vs. scar/acr

Oh, I forgot to give you a picture of the last zero target I had. This was shot at 200 yards, with a light breeze from about 5 o'clock 86 degrees, overcast day, using PRVI 75 grain otm ammo. Barrel was dirty, probably 700 rounds since last cleaning. I did make two passes through the barrel with a dry bore snake, prior to shooting, though.

I forgot 20 round mags, so I was mostly shooting (mono-podding) off a 30 round magazine, on a wooden bench, using my HSG D bag for additional support.

Optic used was a Leupold HAMR 4 power scope, holding dead on for a 200 yard zero (that's the hold it's designed for).

I fired two - ten round groups-the bottom one was from a previous zero with 62 grain fmj. I made adjustments and shot the top group, which was pretty much centered, except for the two shots on the left-which I called "out," as soon as they broke. That center square measures about four inches, so I figured if I could do that off of a crappy rest at 200yds and with the horrendously heavy factory trigger, I could ding 9inch plates at 400 yards.

BTW, for me, PRVI match shoots better than ball ammo, but not as good as Black Hills 75 match. But it doesn't cost as much to shoot, in bulk. Hence, it is my favorite 3-gun round. If you are shooting steel at 200 plus, run the heavy stuff. Guys were having a hard time putting Larue targets down with 55grain ammo. They had to get solid hits, high up on the steel silhouette to make em fall-and they didn't count if they didn't fall. I think AIM Surplus had PRVI 75 on sale for 9 bucks a box. That's not bad, compared to alot of other stuff.

Take a little time deciding your rifle, but DO stock up on all the ammo you want, before next week.....


IMG_1069 by CUSTOMGLOCKFAN, on Flickr
 
Re: Ar vs. scar/acr

Nice shooting and thank you for actual range reports. It helps even more knowing that your already using the same gun I like to do the same competition as I would.

Thanks again
 
Re: Ar vs. scar/acr

I love ar's but one plus for the SCAR is the quick change barrel. It only takes a min. to go from carbine to rifle length without having multiple uppers.
 
Re: Ar vs. scar/acr

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CUSTOM1911FAN</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It has a gas system that allows regular and adverse settings, but I've never needed to switch to the adverse setting due to malfunctions, dirt, etc. </div></div>CUSTOM1911FAN-

First, great write up. I am also a big fan of the FN SCAR, and I appreciate the time you took in your write up. The only thing incorrect I recall reading, is the two gas settings quoted above. The normal setting is just that. The second setting is actually "suppressed" which has the opposite effect of an adverse setting. The "suppressed" setting effectively reduces the port diameter to counter the increased gas from the suppressor. If you were to ever get the SCAR so dirty as to require an "adverse" setting (don't think it's possible, I have had mine filthy after thousands of suppressed rounds with no fresh lube and it just keeps chugging,) you would want more gas, not less.

Otherwise, great job.

Here is mine:
2012-05-04101724-1.jpg
 
Re: Ar vs. scar/acr

Holy Crap! Thanks for the correction, bm11. I guess I shoulda read the manual! Thanks for the kudos, as well.

Nice rig, btw. That might very well be my next configuration....hmm.
 
Re: Ar vs. scar/acr

CUSTOM1911FAN and bm11:

Question. I have looked at getting a scar 16 off and on for over a year. This might seem ridiculous, but the only thing that has prevented me from getting one is the stock hinge and latch system. It just feels flimsy. What are your experiences?
 
Re: Ar vs. scar/acr

Just fondeled one a a gun shop I went to and man. I like it even more now! It was light and didn't feel cheap in my opinion... Just need to find a shop that has an acr to compare
 
Re: Ar vs. scar/acr

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jonthomps</div><div class="ubbcode-body">CUSTOM1911FAN and bm11:

Question. I have looked at getting a scar 16 off and on for over a year. This might seem ridiculous, but the only thing that has prevented me from getting one is the stock hinge and latch system. It just feels flimsy. What are your experiences?</div></div>

Hey JT,

I have never had an issue with operation of the folding stock latch. This is due to the fact that since I know it is made of plastic and that it was probably the one fragile part of the gun, I have been careful to slowly open the stock and push the button as I lock it in to place when opening/extending the stock. (I do this with all of my folders-FAL Para, AK side folder, AK underfolder, etc.) Once it's open, it's locked in place it feels pretty solid. If you shake the rifle, you might hear a little rattle from play in the telesoping part of the stock, and the pop-up cheek-piece. But all of that goes away when you get in position with a good cheek weld, in any shooting position. In operation, the stock is solid, comfortable, easily adjusted, and the pop-up cheek-piece is a definite aid to accuracy when using optics. The SCAR is like my HK P30, in that when I fire those two guns, they are so ergonomic that they move with you and you just shoot without really having the realization that there's a gun in your hands. It's the damnedest thing. If you ever experience that, lemme know, I can't imagine I'm the only one who's thought that.

I'll contrast the SCAR stock with the downright shitty flimsy Sig 556 folding stock that flexes considerably, as soon as you put pressure on it, resulting in a constantly changing sight picture and cheek-weld. Not to mention it makes the gun feel cheap. (The cheap ass stock was the number one reason I sold my 556 SWAT) But, the SCAR stock is solid and very useable. The only caution on the SCAR stock is that when you extend it, make sure that the adjustment button/latch pops back out and is locked in place. If it is in-between clicks, it will collapse all the way down when you shoot and it will make for a bit of hilarity for your shooting buddies.

Oh, some people make an issue that there's not alot of storage in the factory stock. Well, I've found that it has enough room for 2 CR123 batteries, and 2-2032 batteries, and allen wrenches to tighten down my optic mounts. The CR123 batteries are for my tac light, and the 2032s are for my Delta Point/HAMR, or my Aimpoint H1. For more storage, you can rock a MIAD grip, or some other grip with storage capability for an emergency cleaning kit, or whatever you want. Oh, I have storage space in my Troy fore-grip as well.

IF you REALLY have to have a different stock, with more storage space and a different shaped buttplate (some people complain about the buttplate angle and shape), then go with the VLTOR replacement stock.

Also, if you just want to upgrade the existing stock latch, then buy the Tango Down Aluminum replacement latch for the SCAR series of rifles.

In conclusion, as-is, the stock is plenty serviceable, but I wouldn't go and do 3-5 second rushes and use the old-school technique of slamming the butt of the rifle into the ground to break your fall, before rolling in to position. Buy the rifle and keep in touch, I'd like to know what you think.

Cheers!


TD Replacement latch:

scar8Crop by CUSTOMGLOCKFAN, on Flickr

VLTOR Replacement stock:

SCAR-STOCK_INS_%232__58457.1324576389.1280.1280 by CUSTOMGLOCKFAN, on Flickr

SCAR factory stock:

scarh03qp5 by CUSTOMGLOCKFAN, on Flickr
 
Re: Ar vs. scar/acr

I think the AR would be better over all. Easier to sell and modify. Plenty of parts on the market to make it fit you.
 
Re: Ar vs. scar/acr

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CUSTOM1911FAN</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Holy Crap! Thanks for the correction, bm11. I guess I shoulda read the manual! Thanks for the kudos, as well.

Nice rig, btw. That might very well be my next configuration....hmm. </div></div>No issues at all with the stock. I don't slam it either, the design doesn't really lend to being slammed into place, it works better if you open it to the point when the hinge just starts to engage the latch, then press the button.
 
Re: Ar vs. scar/acr

SCARs and ACRs are fun "I'm different" guns. I like ARs for their price:performance ratio.
 
Re: Ar vs. scar/acr

Thanks for the replies guys - that really makes sense. Like everything else, I suppose it would matter a great deal how you treat your weapon system: abuse it, something is bound to give out sooner rather than later. Be good to it, and it will operate as intended. Last I heard a lot of the magpul instructors were using scars - that alone says something. Again, thanks for the replies.
 
Re: Ar vs. scar/acr

Yea you cant get made about something breaking when you abuse you stuff....
Anyone in the Houston area that has a scar or acr that would like to meet up and shoot...?
 
Re: Ar vs. scar/acr

I bought a Scar15 in September impatient of waiting for the LM8 to come out. I saw it in person and held it and was really impressed. Light weight, great features etc. I put an 8x scope on it and proceeded to shoot several 1" 5shot groups. The stock trigger sucked however. So I sent it down to Bill springfield to do the trigger. I had issues with his work(another story) however after a little tweaking on my part it is perfect. I put on a 2.5x10 vortex pst and proceeded to sight in. Got it on paper and sighted at 100m with a 1" group. Then the fireworks started. I wanted to test it every 100m and figure out the mil dopes. 200m .70",went to 300m 1.875", 400m 1.875", next day shot 500 and got another 1.875"., next day I went out to 600m and shot 2 5/16". I keep thinking the previous group is a fluke and then shoot another excellent group. Mine is shooting well under half moa. I sure hope it stays this good. It is easily the easiest to shoot Semi .308 I have shot. Very smooth. The gun is phenomenal. Right now I have no plans for any other S/A .308. This is my new hunting rifle. I am shooting federal gold match 168hp with a tba suppressor. I think more people would see better results if they would put on a scope with some power and a good trigger. I feel incredibly smooth confident shots with this combo.
 
Re: Ar vs. scar/acr

I have an ACR that I have been shooting in our tactical rifle matches this year. Its not the most accurate semi auto I own, in fact its probably the least aacurate but it fits me the best and I find the ergonomics are the best feeling to me. I plan on changing the barrel this winter to try to make it accurate. The only real thing I don't like is the titanium firing pin, they break, I'm on my second pin and this one is starting to chip. The rifle does run, I haven't had any failures yet and I haven't cleaned it since I got it. And recoil is the mildest out of the three in my opinion. The other nice thing is the ACR takes any AR trigger.
 
Re: Ar vs. scar/acr

There are a lot of guys that get 3/4" groups with the scar 17 with factory match. Another one I saw a guy had an aftermarket barrel made by a vendor. It was a 21" stainless bull on his Scar17, he claimed it would shoot 1/2 moa all day.
 
Re: Ar vs. scar/acr

have we not learned anything on this semi-auto forum yet?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: solvovir</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> It was a 21" stainless bull on his Scar17, he claimed it would shoot 1/2 moa all day. </div></div>
 
Re: Ar vs. scar/acr

apparently not.....
anyone looked at the robinson arms xcr very similar to the others but it doesnt have the plastic stock like the other two....
 
Re: Ar vs. scar/acr

From the sounds of it I suggest going with a DI AR-15 and learn about the different platforms from there. If you bought a the scar or acr you would be spending waaaayyy more money then you need to.
 
Re: Ar vs. scar/acr

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rickey</div><div class="ubbcode-body">apparently not.....
anyone looked at the robinson arms xcr very similar to the others but it doesnt have the plastic stock like the other two.... </div></div>

I beat the hell out of my plastic stock on the ACR with no issues. Even though its Bushmaster's rifle, Magpul still makes the plastic parts
 
Re: Ar vs. scar/acr

Go with the AR-15 unless you have money burning holes in everything, if money is an issue get the AR and a couple thousand rounds for less then the scar or acr.
 
Re: Ar vs. scar/acr

The price differance isn't a big deal to me. The bigger concern is performance. I don't want to buy a rifle in that price range that doesn't perform well. However if its close to some of the better ar's I would prefer the acr/scar because of the ergonomics.... But I'm not in a rush I'm still reading and learning.

Thanks for all the feedback
 
Re: Ar vs. scar/acr

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rickey</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Ok makes since. Maybe a dumb question but can you make a scar or acr into a di?</div></div>

Making a SCAR into a DI rifle is about as stupid as making an AR15 into a PISTON rifle.
smile.gif


Anyhow, just go buy one and shoot the snot out of it. They'll all do fine... however I found the ACR to be front heavy.
 
Re: Ar vs. scar/acr

Greg Jordan was running a SCAR 16 in three gun this year and was killing it. He swears its a better platform than the AR.
 
Re: Ar vs. scar/acr

I have never shot a scar but it is on my list of guns to get. And your really cant go wrong with an AR. In my opinion you should start with an AR then get a SCAR!
 
Re: Ar vs. scar/acr

After looking at both in stores Im leaning towards a JP scr-11 or psc 11 Just have to talk to jp tomorrow about a few things. I just didnt like the fact that both scar and acr had a heavy trigger and weren't going to be as accurate as other rifles already are at a lower price point. so I looked for other options and found JP rifles and really liked the side charging handles. That was my biggest turn off to getting a Ar... we will see. Ill post picks as soon as I get one...
 
Re: Ar vs. scar/acr

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rickey</div><div class="ubbcode-body">After looking at both in stores Im leaning towards a JP scr-11 or psc 11 Just have to talk to jp tomorrow about a few things. I just didnt like the fact that both scar and acr had a heavy trigger and weren't going to be as accurate as other rifles already are at a lower price point. so I looked for other options and found JP rifles and really liked the side charging handles. That was my biggest turn off to getting a Ar... we will see. Ill post picks as soon as I get one... </div></div>

Rickey, let me know what you get. I've had a JP CTR 02 and it was a sweet rifle. Will you be able to make the Pirates of Texas Championship carbine match in Corpus-Feb 10? I will be down there with my new Rifle Dynamics AK74. It is going to be an AK kind of year, for short guns, anyways.

Hope to see you around!
 
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