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Which powder dispenser and scale setup??

K

Kubitza123

Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
Aug 15, 2012
806
35
44
Central Texas near Waco
Looking for a new powder dispenser and scale setup that's fast and as accurate as possible . Looking at RCBS,Pact (newest model), Isd .

I know Rcbs has great reviews but is the latest Pact up to par now with them for less $$$? Seems Pact has a better warranty as well.

I see the Isd for sale as cheap as $160 but are they very fast and accurate ?

Any input would be great thanks
 
Re: Which powder dispenser and scale setup??

The Chargemaster is a very good setup for the price. The Sartorius scale is as accurate as you can get. I have one and I use it to double check the Chargemaster. There are at least one or two threads about checking the Chargemaster against the Sartorius. I find the Chargemaster is usually with a couple of grains of powder, the highest variations I have seen is 4 grains. I just like to have each charge weight as accurate as possible.
http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/2011...-0005-of-grain/
 
Re: Which powder dispenser and scale setup??

Just buy two Chargemasters and double check them with a balance beam, and the rest I'm keeping quiet about.
 
Re: Which powder dispenser and scale setup??

I use a harrels thrower. I check it with a balance beam scale and go to town. It's very fast and accurate. I've had more improvements in accuracy from consistent neck tension and case capacity than better powder handling. I used to weigh every charge on beam scales, but I tested the throwing and measuring with actual performance down range and I can't find the difference. Wind will kick my ass before that .1 of a grain that I'm off.
You also don't have to worry about florescent lights, cell phones, etc. with a powder thrower and a beam scale. Maybe some static electricity...
The more time on the range the better...
 
Re: Which powder dispenser and scale setup??

Look at Target Master with a tuned Balance Scale
Bang for buck the best dispenser system
Also field portable - so great for accurate load development
 
Re: Which powder dispenser and scale setup??

Chargemaster. So easy and fast. Check in every 10 and against balance beam and its right on.
 
Re: Which powder dispenser and scale setup??

I hear the Prometheus gen 2 is the shit. ( Just kidding ya cobra). All in good fun
 
Re: Which powder dispenser and scale setup??

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 427Cobra</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Just buy two Chargemasters and double check them with a balance beam, and the rest I'm keeping quiet about. </div></div> <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Aimsmall55</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I hear the Prometheus gen 2 is the shit. ( Just kidding ya cobra). All in good fun </div></div>
Holy Shit, after the group hug, and getting together to bake some Toll House cookies, we have a fucking role reversal????
 
Re: Which powder dispenser and scale setup??

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: pshell</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I use a harrels thrower. I check it with a balance beam scale and go to town.
</div></div>
Agree with pshell. I use a Harrell's measure and, after running a number of tests, have found it to be extremely accurate and repeatable.

In one test, I threw and weighed 100 charges. The maximum deviation was 1/10th grain.

In another test, repeated twice on different days, I checked the Standard Deviation of thrown charges versus weighed charges (same powder, cartridge and rifle). Both times, the SD of the thrown charges was lower than the weighed charges.

I figured that if the benchrest shooters didn't weigh every charge, there certainly wasn't any need for me to do so.

Cheers,
Richard
 
Re: Which powder dispenser and scale setup??

The Chargemaster comes with two calibration weights, so you can check/recalibrate as often as you feel like. We've all seen ladder tests where a few tenths in either direction doesn't affect trajectory much at all, and weighing to less than 1/70,000 lb seems at least as error prone as other steps in the reloading process.
 
Re: Which powder dispenser and scale setup??

I have been through 4 different setups. From best (and most expensive) to worst (and least expensive).
1) Prometheus (thrown then trickle up)
2) Sartorius GD-503 + Lee Perfect Powder Measure + Omega Trickler (throw and then trickle up to weight)
3) Acculab VIC-123 (same as Sartorius AY-123) + Lee Perfect Powder Measure + RCBS manual trickler (throw and then trickle up to weight)
4) RCBS Chargemaster (100% trickle up)

The Prometheus is the fastest. A reprogrammed Chargemaster is a little bit slower than I am throwing and trickling up. I am also more accurate throwing and trickling up.

The Sartorius GD-503 is faster than the AY-123 because it is not as stable and I have to wait for it to settle out, I have to continually rezero, and I have to reweigh a bunch.

The Omega is a way to go for the trickler. I wish that Brand Cole sold the Prometheus trickler as a stand alone. It is a work of art.

Cost-wise, you are looking at $310 for the AY-123, $1325 for the GD-503, $70 for the Omega Trickler, and $30 for the Lee Perfect Powder measure.

So the costs of my setups are:
1) $3,000
2) $1,425
3) $355
4) $290

Accuracy is:
1) +/- .005 gr
2) +/- .005 gr
3) +/- .025 gr
4) +/- .088 gr

Time to throw a charge:
1) 18 seconds
2) 40 seconds
3) 70 seconds
4) 60 seconds

The first 3 setups are "good enough" for long range. The Chargemaster, is probably "good enough," but you lose a bit. In terms of concentration required, the Prometheus and Chargemaster requires much less intense concentration. To achieve those times with my thrower, scale, and trickler, I have to really focus.

Hopefully, this gives a good overview. I need to get a GD-503 back so I can truly look at the weights of Prometheus throws. I will probably create a thread for the comparison.
 
Re: Which powder dispenser and scale setup??

"I use a Harrell's measure ... found it to be extremely accurate and repeatable. In one test, ...The maximum deviation was 1/10th grain."

Without telling us the powder and approximate charge weight, you haven't told us much. ??
 
Re: Which powder dispenser and scale setup??

Lots of options. I'll probably go with a charge master and get a good scale to double check with. Most of the time I'll be shooting 500 yards or less so should work fine . Thanks for all your input fellas its much appreciated.
 
Re: Which powder dispenser and scale setup??

Obviously a lot depends on your scale. My PACT and RCBS 505 seem to be in the same ballpark, plus or minus .1 grain using check weights.

I load on an old PACT. If my dispenser breaks again I'll get a Chargemaster, it's been back twice in the last year or so. I've tried three set ups; my PACT, an Omega trickler with an RCBS 505 and RCBS Uniflow, and an RCBS manual trickler and the 505/Uniflow. Loading on all three set ups gave me 50 filled cases in 30 to 35 minutes. The Pact was the fastest, the manual RCBS trickler the slowest.

I can not tell any difference in the ammo from the three set ups shooting service rifle.
 
Re: Which powder dispenser and scale setup??

If you throw and then trickle it doesn't matter what powder measure you use because if you are within .2-.3 grains below the desired charge weight that's good enough to finish trickling with.

Concerning thrown charges....

I've found that every type of powder meters differently.

Ball powders meter well, they are temperature sensitive though. I throw ball powder for 223 plinking ammo.

Fine to medium granulated stick powders meter OK. You still have to watch out for bridging. Bridging is when the powder gets partially stuck in the measure during a throw giving a light charge but a bigger problem can be the next throw which can be what's left of the stuck powder plus a new throw. I'll let your imagination ponder what the consequences could be of severe over charge.

Course grain stick powders don't throw well. I'm not a fan of digital scales but I'd much rather use a Chargemaster for such rather than throw for course powders. I've had 3 digital scales over the years and I didn't like having to re calibrate while in the middle of loading besides that they all broke.
 
Re: Which powder dispenser and scale setup??

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: milo-2</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 427Cobra</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Just buy two Chargemasters and double check them with a balance beam, and the rest I'm keeping quiet about. </div></div> <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Aimsmall55</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I hear the Prometheus gen 2 is the shit. ( Just kidding ya cobra). All in good fun </div></div>
Holy Shit, after the group hug, and getting together to bake some Toll House cookies, we have a fucking role reversal????
</div></div>

We also polished off two 12 packs, and a bottle of Jack.
 
Re: Which powder dispenser and scale setup??

There is no question a Harrels is a fine piece of equipment, but powder selection plays a big role with any powder throw accuracy, as does a repeatable technique, inside 300 yards I doubt anybody can shoot the difference between thrown and measured powder charges, at further distances single digit ES/SD come into the picture, and nobody who throws charges has long term repeatable single digit spreads.
 
Re: Which powder dispenser and scale setup??

For what its worth I have a GD503, Harrels and an Omega. I put 53.5 grains of H4831SC in 10 shells measuring down to the flake of powder without rushing and averaged 25 seconds a charge. Its basically exactly as fast as a promethius, half the price and more useful because you can weigh other things like brass, bullets, case capacity, or a randon chunk of gold you might have sitting in the back of the safe
 
Re: Which powder dispenser and scale setup??

It takes you 15 seconds more per charge, and you have to do all the work, you have a fine set up, it's exactly what I would be using if I didn't have what I have.
 
Re: Which powder dispenser and scale setup??

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 427Cobra</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: milo-2</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 427Cobra</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Just buy two Chargemasters and double check them with a balance beam, and the rest I'm keeping quiet about. </div></div> <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Aimsmall55</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I hear the Prometheus gen 2 is the shit. ( Just kidding ya cobra). All in good fun </div></div>
Holy Shit, after the group hug, and getting together to bake some Toll House cookies, we have a fucking role reversal????
</div></div>

We also polished off two 12 packs, and a bottle of Jack. </div></div>

Dont forget the hookers
 
Re: Which powder dispenser and scale setup??

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: EagerNoSkill</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Look at Target Master with a tuned Balance Scale
Bang for buck the best dispenser system
Also field portable - so great for accurate load development </div></div>

I hear that's the system used by the new F/TR European Champion - Well done Mr. EagerNoSkill
smile.gif
 
Re: Which powder dispenser and scale setup??

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 1066</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: EagerNoSkill</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Look at Target Master with a tuned Balance Scale
Bang for buck the best dispenser system
Also field portable - so great for accurate load development </div></div>

I hear that's the system used by the new F/TR European Champion - Well done Mr. EagerNoSkill
smile.gif
</div></div>

Sshhhh. ...You know rumours like this may make people and me think I know what I am talking about!
 
Re: Which powder dispenser and scale setup??

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Carter Mayfield</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have been through 4 different setups. From best (and most expensive) to worst (and least expensive).
1) Prometheus (thrown then trickle up)
2) Sartorius GD-503 + Lee Perfect Powder Measure + Omega Trickler (throw and then trickle up to weight)
3) Acculab VIC-123 (same as Sartorius AY-123) + Lee Perfect Powder Measure + RCBS manual trickler (throw and then trickle up to weight)
4) RCBS Chargemaster (100% trickle up)

The Prometheus is the fastest. A reprogrammed Chargemaster is a little bit slower than I am throwing and trickling up. I am also more accurate throwing and trickling up.

The Sartorius GD-503 is faster than the AY-123 because it is not as stable and I have to wait for it to settle out, I have to continually rezero, and I have to reweigh a bunch.

The Omega is a way to go for the trickler. I wish that Brand Cole sold the Prometheus trickler as a stand alone. It is a work of art.

Cost-wise, you are looking at $310 for the AY-123, $1325 for the GD-503, $70 for the Omega Trickler, and $30 for the Lee Perfect Powder measure.

So the costs of my setups are:
1) $3,000
2) $1,425
3) $355
4) $290

Accuracy is:
1) +/- .005 gr
2) +/- .005 gr
3) +/- .025 gr
4) +/- .088 gr

Time to throw a charge:
1) 18 seconds
2) 40 seconds
3) 70 seconds
4) 60 seconds

The first 3 setups are "good enough" for long range. The Chargemaster, is probably "good enough," but you lose a bit. In terms of concentration required, the Prometheus and Chargemaster requires much less intense concentration. To achieve those times with my thrower, scale, and trickler, I have to really focus.

Hopefully, this gives a good overview. I need to get a GD-503 back so I can truly look at the weights of Prometheus throws. I will probably create a thread for the comparison. </div></div>

Great post carter!!!
 
Re: Which powder dispenser and scale setup??

I have a Hornady Lock and Load Auto Charge.

Seems to work well. But it takes a minute or so throw.
 
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