Suppressors NC suppressor trust advise

[callen3615]

Hey guys, for too long I have watched from afar. I want to make a nfa trust and buy a suppressor. Im very sure that the CLEO in my, and surrounding counties will not sign any atf forms. I am not a lawyer, nor do I know any. I have seen where people are making their own trusts using software, Im not sure how many do, or how successful they are but I would really like to get a 223 can but dont have the cash to pay an attorney 400$-600$ just for a piece of paper. How risky is it to just fill out my own trust and have it notarized? There is a class 3 dealer a few towns over and im sure they would help me too, id just like to know how safe this is. I want a suppressor but if I have to pay 800$ before I can even buy one Im out until I have a real, full time job. If anyone has a suppressor trust in NC and wouldnt mind soliciting advice I would be much appreciative.

Thanks

 

[Stalking_Rhino]

Re: NC suppressor trust advise

There are some softwares out there that have been used for years and years with no issues.

The Gun Trust Lawyers will scare you saying that it may not be valid or will leave you open for who knows what bad things.

I haven't seen a single issue in the last 7 or 8 years that was due to a home software trust. The issues have been the cycling of new people through the trust and putting buddies on it and all that. ATF doesn't particularly approve of revolving trusts.

Get a copy of Quicken Will Maker 2009 it had the features for the Revocable Living Trust, fill it out, get it notarized and go about your business.

Remember NC has the fun statutes you need to work within for the lawful ownership of NFA toys.

 

[ZO6Dave]

Re: NC suppressor trust advise

I paid my attorney $250. $600 is just nuts.

 

[callen3615]

Re: NC suppressor trust advise

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: StalkingRhino</div><div class="ubbcode-body">T
Remember NC has the fun statutes you need to work within for the lawful ownership of NFA toys. </div></div>

And what does this mean?

I have hear people talk about NCs statutes, but I dont understand them. I do know that you cant get an MG through a trust, you have to have the CLEO sign off on that but all I want is a can.

 

[Stalking_Rhino]

Re: NC suppressor trust advise

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cpt. obvious</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: StalkingRhino</div><div class="ubbcode-body">T
Remember NC has the fun statutes you need to work within for the lawful ownership of NFA toys. </div></div>

And what does this mean?

I have hear people talk about NCs statutes, but I dont understand them. I do know that you cant get an MG through a trust, you have to have the CLEO sign off on that but all I want is a can. </div></div>

You can have a MG on a trust, you have to had a CLEO signoff to get it in the state and register it with your county.

In NC you can't legally own NFA for collection or investments purposes, it has to be for research and development purposes as they are considered "Weapons of Mass Destruction".

In the justification block you put "In accordance with NC general statute 14-288.8 & 14-409".

The quotes is what the ATF is looking for, anything but that will get it denied.

Just a hoop you have to jump through to play in NC.

 

[Matt.Cross]

Re: NC suppressor trust advise

PM me cpt. obvious, I went through all this in February and just got my suppressor back in early November. I'll put you in touch with someone who can tell you anything and everything you need to know about buying & owning a suppressor in NC.

 

[ScottNC]

Re: NC suppressor trust advise

Just a note:
I just got my Form 1 back approved, after being returned for correction, all they asked me to put in (i. State Why...) was "NC 14-288.8". FYI it was an Individual not a Trust, but I don't think that makes any difference. Hope this helps and doesn't cloud the "never for sure, but might be" getting a Stamp process!

 

[Stalking_Rhino]

Re: NC suppressor trust advise

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ScottNC</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Just a note:
I just got my Form 1 back approved, after being returned for correction, all they asked me to put in (i. State Why...) was "NC 14-288.8". FYI it was an Individual not a Trust, but I don't think that makes any difference. Hope this helps and doesn't cloud the "never for sure, but might be" getting a Stamp process!
</div></div>

Makes no difference whether it be a individual or an entity. NFA is illegal in NC without the research and development justification via NC 14-288.8

 

[Matt.Cross]

Re: NC suppressor trust advise

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ScottNC</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Just a note:
I just got my Form 1 back approved, after being returned for correction, all they asked me to put in (i. State Why...) was "NC 14-288.8".
</div></div>

On my Form 4, I simply listed "in accordance with NC general statute 14-288.8." in "for reason(s)" line. Passed with flying colors.

 

[Matt.Cross]

Re: NC suppressor trust advise

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: StalkingRhino</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
NFA is illegal in NC without the research and development justification via NC 14-288.8</div></div>

Incorrect:

(b) This section does NOT apply to any of the following:
(5) Persons who lawfully possess or own a weapon as defined in subsection (c) of this section in compliance with 26 U.S.C. Chapter 53, §§ 5801&#8209;5871. Nothing in this subdivision shall limit the discretion of the sheriff in executing the paperwork required by the United States Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms for such person to obtain the weapon.


Nothing to do with research and development. If you possess the NFA item in accordance with USC Chapter 53, Subsection 5801, you are exempted from NCGS 14-288.8.

 

[346ci]

Re: NC suppressor trust advise

I thought about the willmaker software but ended up finding a lawyer to do one for $75. Worked for #1, #2 and #3 are in the pipe line as we speak..

 

[Stalking_Rhino]

Re: NC suppressor trust advise

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Matt.Cross</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: StalkingRhino</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
NFA is illegal in NC without the research and development justification via NC 14-288.8</div></div>

Incorrect:

(b) This section does NOT apply to any of the following:
(5) Persons who lawfully possess or own a weapon as defined in subsection (c) of this section in compliance with 26 U.S.C. Chapter 53, §§ 5801&#8209;5871. Nothing in this subdivision shall limit the discretion of the sheriff in executing the paperwork required by the United States Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms for such person to obtain the weapon.


Nothing to do with research and development. If you possess the NFA item in accordance with USC Chapter 53, Subsection 5801, you are exempted from NCGS 14-288.8.
</div></div>

I guess Industry Operations has no idea whats going on then, thats the advice they have given me for years.

 

[Matt.Cross]

Re: NC suppressor trust advise

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: StalkingRhino</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Matt.Cross</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: StalkingRhino</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
NFA is illegal in NC without the research and development justification via NC 14-288.8</div></div>

Incorrect:

(b) This section does NOT apply to any of the following:
(5) Persons who lawfully possess or own a weapon as defined in subsection (c) of this section in compliance with 26 U.S.C. Chapter 53, §§ 5801&#8209;5871. Nothing in this subdivision shall limit the discretion of the sheriff in executing the paperwork required by the United States Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms for such person to obtain the weapon.


Nothing to do with research and development. If you possess the NFA item in accordance with USC Chapter 53, Subsection 5801, you are exempted from NCGS 14-288.8.
</div></div>

I guess Industry Operations has no idea whats going on then, thats the advice they have given me for years.</div></div>

Before December of last year, part 5 of that subsection was not law. What IO told you up to that point was applicable, but what I posted is the statute that has been in effect since December of last year, so in relative terms, it's a fairly recent development.

 

[Stalking_Rhino]

Re: NC suppressor trust advise

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Matt.Cross</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: StalkingRhino</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Matt.Cross</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: StalkingRhino</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
NFA is illegal in NC without the research and development justification via NC 14-288.8</div></div>

Incorrect:

(b) This section does NOT apply to any of the following:
(5) Persons who lawfully possess or own a weapon as defined in subsection (c) of this section in compliance with 26 U.S.C. Chapter 53, §§ 5801&#8209;5871. Nothing in this subdivision shall limit the discretion of the sheriff in executing the paperwork required by the United States Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms for such person to obtain the weapon.


Nothing to do with research and development. If you possess the NFA item in accordance with USC Chapter 53, Subsection 5801, you are exempted from NCGS 14-288.8.
</div></div>

I guess Industry Operations has no idea whats going on then, thats the advice they have given me for years.</div></div>

Before December of last year, part 5 of that subsection was not law. What IO told you up to that point was applicable, but what I posted is the statute that has been in effect since December of last year, so in relative terms, it's a fairly recent development. </div></div>

IO is sticking to the story as of the beginning of last week.

Doesn't matter thought just write the statute down and go about your business.

 

[Matt.Cross]

Re: NC suppressor trust advise

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 346ci</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I thought about the willmaker software but ended up finding a lawyer to do one for $75. Worked for #1, #2 and #3 are in the pipe line as we speak..</div></div>

Would you mind sending me a PM? I'm interested in who you used, and whether or not your trust is "NFA specific". If neither of those are something you want to disclose, just disregard. The reason I'm curious is because I've only managed to locate one attorney in NC who does "NFA trusts" and he's quite a long ways from me.

 

[Stalking_Rhino]

Re: NC suppressor trust advise

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Matt.Cross</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 346ci</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I thought about the willmaker software but ended up finding a lawyer to do one for $75. Worked for #1, #2 and #3 are in the pipe line as we speak..</div></div>

Would you mind sending me a PM? I'm interested in who you used, and whether or not your trust is "NFA specific". If neither of those are something you want to disclose, just disregard. The reason I'm curious is because I've only managed to locate one attorney in NC who does "NFA trusts" and he's quite a long ways from me. </div></div>

I would be interested in knowing this lawyer as well, I get that call often about who to go to for a Trust. Can send him alot of business.

 

[bunsen27]

Re: NC suppressor trust advise

I used Matthew J. Bergstrum of Arsenal Gun Trust and was quite pleased. Price wise he is well below David Goldman at Gun Trust Lawyer, but a little bit higher than using a local attorney <span style="text-decoration: underline"><span style="font-weight: bold">IF</span></span> you can find one that has experience with NFA Trusts.

Yes, it sucks having to pay for the legal paperwork in addition to the suppressor and the tax stamp, but IMO I'd rather pay a few hundred dollars now than risk loosing my right to own firearms later if NC DOJ gets a bug up their ass and decides to go after NFA item owners and their Trust's. BATF approval of your FORM 4 or 1 does not mean your Trust is 100% legal or correct. Pay the attorney to cover your ass in case of "what if". What is the old adage, "an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure"?

 

[ScottNC]

Re: NC suppressor trust advise

Your "Covered Ass" means nothing if the ATF says no...
just a thought

 

[callen3615]

Re: NC suppressor trust advise

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ScottNC</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Your "Covered Ass" means nothing if the ATF says no...
just a thought </div></div>

Care to explain that?

 

[Matt.Cross]

Re: NC suppressor trust advise

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cpt. obvious</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ScottNC</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Your "Covered Ass" means nothing if the ATF says no...
just a thought </div></div>

Care to explain that? </div></div>

If I had to venture a guess, I'd say it means that a bulletproof trust is no good if the BATFE decides they do not like it.

 

[Stalking_Rhino]

Re: NC suppressor trust advise

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Matt.Cross</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cpt. obvious</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ScottNC</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Your "Covered Ass" means nothing if the ATF says no...
just a thought </div></div>

Care to explain that? </div></div>

If I had to venture a guess, I'd say it means that a bulletproof trust is no good if the BATFE decides they do not like it. </div></div>

Nailed it!

If the ATF says you can't own it it won't matter that a Trust has it, it will be illegal, period. They wouldn't allow it to be owned by an entity and not by an individual.

If the state of NC makes it illegal to own the NFA then its illegal, no trust or corp or individual will be able to have it, plain and simple.

You get no added safety or security by having the Trust when it comes to someone with a higher pay grade than you from coming and changing what you enjoy.

 

[bunsen27]

Re: NC suppressor trust advise

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ScottNC</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Your "Covered Ass" means nothing if the ATF says no...
just a thought </div></div>

You might want to work on your reading comprehension because the "covered ass" was referring to the NC DOJ going after Trust's not the BATF.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: "Bunsen"</div><div class="ubbcode-body">...if NC DOJ gets a bug up their ass and decides to go after NFA item owners and their Trust's. <span style="text-decoration: underline">BATF approval of your FORM 4 or 1 does not mean your Trust is 100% legal or correct.</span> Pay the attorney to cover your ass in case of "what if". </div></div>

At no point did I indicated that just because a NFA item is held in a Trust; it is therefore legal to own. The point was if NC DOJ has your trust declared illegal you can find yourself on the wrong side of BATF (even though BATF approved it), loose your NFA items and possibly more.

It's okay though, you guys play internet lawyers. I paid a real attorney to handle my legal matters.

 

[Stalking_Rhino]

Re: NC suppressor trust advise

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Bunsen</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ScottNC</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Your "Covered Ass" means nothing if the ATF says no...
just a thought </div></div>

You might want to work on your reading comprehension because the "covered ass" was referring to the NC DOJ going after Trust's not the BATF.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: "Bunsen"</div><div class="ubbcode-body">...if NC DOJ gets a bug up their ass and decides to go after NFA item owners and their Trust's. <span style="text-decoration: underline">BATF approval of your FORM 4 or 1 does not mean your Trust is 100% legal or correct.</span> Pay the attorney to cover your ass in case of "what if". </div></div>

At no point did I indicated that just because a NFA item is held in a Trust; it is therefore legal to own. The point was if NC DOJ has your trust declared illegal you can find yourself on the wrong side of BATF (even though BATF approved it), loose your NFA items and possibly more.

It's okay though, you guys play internet lawyers. I paid a real attorney to handle my legal matters.

</div></div>

Doesn't matter if you paid the best lawyer in the world, if NC bans entity owned NFA items you are still up a creek.

Thats what sucks about reality.

 

[callen3615]

Re: NC suppressor trust advise

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: StalkingRhino</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Bunsen</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ScottNC</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Your "Covered Ass" means nothing if the ATF says no...
just a thought </div></div>

You might want to work on your reading comprehension because the "covered ass" was referring to the NC DOJ going after Trust's not the BATF.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: "Bunsen"</div><div class="ubbcode-body">...if NC DOJ gets a bug up their ass and decides to go after NFA item owners and their Trust's. <span style="text-decoration: underline">BATF approval of your FORM 4 or 1 does not mean your Trust is 100% legal or correct.</span> Pay the attorney to cover your ass in case of "what if". </div></div>

At no point did I indicated that just because a NFA item is held in a Trust; it is therefore legal to own. The point was if NC DOJ has your trust declared illegal you can find yourself on the wrong side of BATF (even though BATF approved it), loose your NFA items and possibly more.

It's okay though, you guys play internet lawyers. I paid a real attorney to handle my legal matters.

</div></div>

Doesn't matter if you paid the best lawyer in the world, if NC bans entity owned NFA items you are still up a creek.

Thats what sucks about reality. </div></div>

Agreed but we would have a notice. It wouldnt be like we woke up one day and we are all felons. we could sell or dispose of our soon to be illegal items right?

 

[Stalking_Rhino]

Re: NC suppressor trust advise

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cpt. obvious</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: StalkingRhino</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Bunsen</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ScottNC</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Your "Covered Ass" means nothing if the ATF says no...
just a thought </div></div>

You might want to work on your reading comprehension because the "covered ass" was referring to the NC DOJ going after Trust's not the BATF.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: "Bunsen"</div><div class="ubbcode-body">...if NC DOJ gets a bug up their ass and decides to go after NFA item owners and their Trust's. <span style="text-decoration: underline">BATF approval of your FORM 4 or 1 does not mean your Trust is 100% legal or correct.</span> Pay the attorney to cover your ass in case of "what if". </div></div>

At no point did I indicated that just because a NFA item is held in a Trust; it is therefore legal to own. The point was if NC DOJ has your trust declared illegal you can find yourself on the wrong side of BATF (even though BATF approved it), loose your NFA items and possibly more.

It's okay though, you guys play internet lawyers. I paid a real attorney to handle my legal matters.

</div></div>

Doesn't matter if you paid the best lawyer in the world, if NC bans entity owned NFA items you are still up a creek.

Thats what sucks about reality. </div></div>

Agreed but we would have a notice. It wouldnt be like we woke up one day and we are all felons. we could sell or dispose of our soon to be illegal items right? </div></div>

You would think so but not necessarily.

I think that if something like that would happen they would notify ahead of time with the new requirements, which would be in this case transferring all entity owned weapons to an individual as well as having them registered in each County. This HAS been talked about in the recent past.

Similar to California and the banning of the SKS rifles, they were given XXX days to dispose of or surrender, I would think given the NFA process if you could show proof of the transfer form submited that would suffice pending its approval.

Who knows if this would ever happen though I just know it has been discussed and as far as the discussion goes a Trust isn't bomb proof regardless of who makes it.