What's Your Recipe for Tac Competition Bolt Gun?

[CUSTOM1911FAN]

Howdy all,

Well, some pals of mine down here in Texas shot a match that had some carbine work, and some long range precision work, out to 800meters. So, after years of shooting 3 gun, I now want to try an even harder, and more expensive hobby-long range tactical type match shooting. That said, I wonder if I am building the right tool for the job. Here's my build list, so far:

I have ordered a manners T2F (a folder), I have a Remington 700 Stainless short action receiver, I have a sure fire 30 cal muzzle brake, I have a Holland recoil lug, and Badger M5 bottom metal.

Now, the caliber that I have chosen is 6.5 Creedmoor, just based on its long range potential and the fact that I can buy factory match ammo, fairly easily. Now, what I am hemmin' and hawin' about is the length and contour of the barrel. I am figuring that 22" and a Rem Varmint contour would be a good compromise between a good heavy accurate barrel that wouldn't heat up too quickly, but not be too heavy for gettin up and goin' from position to position.

Now regarding stocks: what are guys running for stocks? I see that stocks have heavy fill, and lightweight versions, some are flat on the bottom, some are angled. A ton of choices. So, what are everybody's thoughts on which style of Manners or McMillan stock that would be appropriate for these kinds of matches?

Sorry for so many questions, but I would sure appreciate the feedback. I don't want to sink a few grand into a gun that won't be suited for my intended task. Pictures would be appreciated. Thanks Sniper's Hide.

 

[dk-1]

Re: What's Your Recipe for Tac Competition Bolt Gun?

You sound like you're on the right track, but the stocks are like women you really need to try before you buy. I spent years drooling over AICS chassis and Manners MCS T5's. I got to shoot a friend's AICS and hated it. I thought the T5 would be the ticket, so I picked one up. It didn't fit me either. I had shot extensively with a buddy's two T4 equipped rifles and something just felt "off"... I finally ordered a McMillan A3 and have found the winner in my book. Just to add, my other precision rifles had all been equipped with HS precision stocks, which got the job done but still wasn't the best fit.

I'm running a trued 700 action with a 23" Krieger #18 (real close to M24 countour) with that A3. The A3 is a pound lighter than the T5 was and makes the whole package feel lighter and more balanced. With the 23" barrel and RL22 I'm able to comfortably push a 140 VLD to 2785 fps, and getting faster as my tube breaks in.

 

[Pusher591]

Re: What's Your Recipe for Tac Competition Bolt Gun?

I currently run a Surgeon 591 21" barrel in M40/M24 contour and use a Nightforce 3.5-15x50. While its not the heaviest gun in the world it could be lighter.

Im currently gathering parts for a true comp build and it's listed as:

Single Point Trued 700
PTG 1 Peice Bolt w/Mini M16 extractor
Tubbs .300 Recoil Lug
Murphy Precison 700 20 MOA Base (Titanium Version)

Bartlein Fluted Med. Palma 25" front of recoil lug
Surefire Brake
R&D or Badger M5 Bottom Metal (Haven't decided yet)
Tuned Remington Trigger
Manners T4-A Stock

And a secret smith who has shown me what it means to be a true friend putting it all together after the first of the year.


I think this will be a well balanced combo. If you want to save even more weight go with a non-adjustable stock and build up a cheek peice on it. I've been spoiled to them thats why I chose one.

 

[JRWALLSIII]

Re: What's Your Recipe for Tac Competition Bolt Gun?

http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=3728282#Post3728282

 

[Rob01]

Re: What's Your Recipe for Tac Competition Bolt Gun?

Stretch the barrel out to 26". Everything else looks good. Stocks are personal preference. Rem action will do fine and the Badger DBM will give you the magazine capacity you need in a comp gun.

 

[steve123]

Re: What's Your Recipe for Tac Competition Bolt Gun?

I agree with Rob on barrel length.

I've been using a Tubb contour which has served well but the rifle is tad front heavy still for my liking when I leave prone.

A friend has a light palma. We can't tell any difference between his and mine as far as the barrel heating up and neither walk shots. I like how his rifle handles much better when doing anything positional. I think I'll do light palma next time and get a more a efficient muzzle brake.

 

[ccoker]

Re: What's Your Recipe for Tac Competition Bolt Gun?

I missed that match, was out hunting..
Want to do the next one..

If you want to try a Manners MCS-T out for fit I am located in Austin..

Could meet out at BOTW and let you shoot it (20" 308 with Kahles K312)

 

[CUSTOM1911FAN]

Re: What's Your Recipe for Tac Competition Bolt Gun?

Now that's what I needed! Thanks guys!

Well, based on that table of guns and gear used, I am struck by how the various 6mm calibers completely dominate the field.

A little off topic for this thread , but the next thing that struck me was the fact that I see less expensive scopes like Bushnell and Vortex, up in the top ten, along with Premiere and Schmidt and Bender.

I am leaning towards the MCMillan A3. I'll research the barrels more, now.

 

[Onemoretime]

Re: What's Your Recipe for Tac Competition Bolt Gun?

Another +1 for the longer barrel length.

 

[turbo54]

Re: What's Your Recipe for Tac Competition Bolt Gun?

The 22" barrel will do fabulously to 800m. For shots BEYOND 800m though, more barrel will be more better.

 

[CUSTOM1911FAN]

Re: What's Your Recipe for Tac Competition Bolt Gun?

Wow, thanks guys. Nice guns and good advice. Ccoker, I will give you a holler when I head out to BOTW in January. That will be the soonest I can escape my wife and my in-laws!

Like I said, still digesting the info coming in and trying to figure out which barrel and contour to go with. At least I am settled on my caliber-6.5 Creedmoor.

Oh, I failed to mention I want the option to go suppressed with this rifle. Will this affect my velocity much?, and would that figure in to barrel length selection? I know suppressors affect point of aim, but what about velocity?

My reason for suppressor is that a couple of my land use opportunities are in county land, that is pretty much surrounded by city zoned property. The best of them is minutes out of the city, and has a 500 yard pasture with a huge, tall, bluff behind it. Bullet impacts won't be an issue, and if I can keep the noise down a bit, I don't think the neighbors will complain and I won't be run off.

 

[Pat M]

Re: What's Your Recipe for Tac Competition Bolt Gun?

Rbros makes a great rifle

http://www.rbrosrifles.com/

 

[dieselgeek]

Re: What's Your Recipe for Tac Competition Bolt Gun?

When I shot 6.5 Creedmoor I had them both in AICS and both had 24 inch barrels. They were shooters, and like you I chose the caliber for the factory match ammo, and of course the 6.5s capability.

The first one (green and tan) had a Hart HV barrel, and the 2nd one (black and tan) had a fluted sendero contour, which I preferred to the super heavy HV. The .308 has a sendero contour 20 inch barrel which I really like as the whole rifle is 16lbs vs 20 and 18lbs of the other two rifles.

I bought a Manners T4 w/ a Mini-Chassis this last time around,and I have to say I feel like I fit behind it better. Although I just have a 20 inch .308 now, it still is a laser, and a blast to shoot.
I've ran Timneys in all of my match rifles, and Tab Slings as well.

 

[CUSTOM1911FAN]

Re: What's Your Recipe for Tac Competition Bolt Gun?

Looks like I am going with 26" Bartlein M24 profile barrel.

 

[Bruiser_Joe]

Re: What's Your Recipe for Tac Competition Bolt Gun?

24" GAP profile 6m surgeon in a KMW

all kinds of win

or a 22" GAP fluted 260 templar in a KWW

 

[CUSTOM1911FAN]

Re: What's Your Recipe for Tac Competition Bolt Gun?

Well, I have a Bartlein M24 1 in 8, 6.5 cal, 27" barrel blank on the way from bugholes.com. (Thanks Greg) I think I'll finish it at 26". my last precision gun was a tricked out 308 Rem 700 with 22" barrel, and I liked the balance of it, but it seems like the consensus is that longer is better to get to 1000 yards with the 6.5C, especially with factory loaded ammo-which I will be using.

I'll figure out which muzzle break I want when I see it. I don't know if the Sure Fire brake will work with that thick ass barrel? My builder should have it by Friday.

Now to decide on a stock. Oh, and a scope. Hmmmm......

Thanks for everybody's help, again.

 

[Pusher591]

Re: What's Your Recipe for Tac Competition Bolt Gun?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CUSTOM1911FAN</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Well, I have a Bartlein M24 1 in 8, 6.5 cal, 27" barrel blank on the way from bugholes.com. (Thanks Greg) I think I'll finish it at 26". my last precision gun was a tricked out 308 Rem 700 with 22" barrel, and I liked the balance of it, but it seems like the consensus is that longer is better to get to 1000 yards with the 6.5C, especially with factory loaded ammo-which I will be using.

I'll figure out which muzzle break I want when I see it. I don't know if the Sure Fire brake will work with that thick ass barrel? My builder should have it by Friday.

Now to decide on a stock. Oh, and a scope. Hmmmm......

Thanks for everybody's help, again.


</div></div>

Congrats but better eat your wheaties

As for the Surefire brake, the smith will turn the end down and thread to allow it to fit.

 

[Rob01]

Re: What's Your Recipe for Tac Competition Bolt Gun?

Surefire brake will work fine. I have two of them on Bartlein M24/40 contour barrels.

Good spec's on your build.

 

[CUSTOM1911FAN]

Re: What's Your Recipe for Tac Competition Bolt Gun?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Pusher591</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CUSTOM1911FAN</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Well, I have a Bartlein M24 1 in 8, 6.5 cal, 27" barrel blank on the way from bugholes.com. (Thanks Greg) I think I'll finish it at 26". my last precision gun was a tricked out 308 Rem 700 with 22" barrel, and I liked the balance of it, but it seems like the consensus is that longer is better to get to 1000 yards with the 6.5C, especially with factory loaded ammo-which I will be using.

I'll figure out which muzzle break I want when I see it. I don't know if the Sure Fire brake will work with that thick ass barrel? My builder should have it by Friday.

Now to decide on a stock. Oh, and a scope. Hmmmm......

Thanks for everybody's help, again.


</div></div>

Congrats but better eat your wheaties

As for the Surefire brake, the smith will turn the end down and thread to allow it to fit.</div></div>

lol Yes, I will eat my wheaties, but I will likely have the barrel fluted to take little weight off the front of the gun. I hope nobody thinks less of me for that.

Besides, I would imagine that it can't be any heavier than carrying a SAW with an optic and drum attached - plus body armor, 400 rounds of linked ammo, radio, frags, and a pistol! - or can it?

Either way, eating my wheaties.....

 

[JB02]

Re: What's Your Recipe for Tac Competition Bolt Gun?

I have two Badger FTEs that are great. If they can tame a 300 WM/300 WSM, then a 6.5CM will feel like a massage.

I've heard great things about the APA bastard and Surefire too, but never tried one.

I'm partial to Manners, especially my T3, but my wife's T5 feels good too. I also have a McMillan A5 that is quite nice as well, but I think I should've ordered the A3 or Manners T2 instead because I like the way the butt angles back. If you're looking to save weight, get a non adjustable option and a 90% carbon fiber.

What are you going to use for a trigger?

 

[PowerstrokeOBX]

Re: What's Your Recipe for Tac Competition Bolt Gun?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Pusher591</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CUSTOM1911FAN</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Well, I have a Bartlein M24 1 in 8, 6.5 cal, 27" barrel blank on the way from bugholes.com. (Thanks Greg) I think I'll finish it at 26". my last precision gun was a tricked out 308 Rem 700 with 22" barrel, and I liked the balance of it, but it seems like the consensus is that longer is better to get to 1000 yards with the 6.5C, especially with factory loaded ammo-which I will be using.

I'll figure out which muzzle break I want when I see it. I don't know if the Sure Fire brake will work with that thick ass barrel? My builder should have it by Friday.

Now to decide on a stock. Oh, and a scope. Hmmmm......

Thanks for everybody's help, again.


</div></div>

Congrats but better eat your wheaties

</div></div>

I agree! I have a 28" MTU contour and its a HEAVY pig. I need to eat more wheaties. But it doesnt move under recoil without a break.

 

[CUSTOM1911FAN]

Re: What's Your Recipe for Tac Competition Bolt Gun?

Thanks Rob.<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LCDR JGB</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have two Badger FTEs that are great. If they can tame a 300 WM/300 WSM, then a 6.5CM will feel like a massage.

I've heard great things about the APA bastard and Surefire too, but never tried one.

I'm partial to Manners, especially my T3, but my wife's T5 feels good too. I also have a McMillan A5 that is quite nice as well, but I think I should've ordered the A3 or Manners T2 instead because I like the way the butt angles back. If you're looking to save weight, get a non adjustable option and a 90% carbon fiber.

What are you going to use for a trigger?</div></div>

Roger that LCDR, I will likely stick with the Sure Fire, cuz I already bought it and am looking to get a SF suppressor as well.

I also like the same stocks as you, for the same reasons. I will most likely rock the manners T2 90% and send it to Dimension for some custom paint.

Now, regarding a trigger, ya know, I completely forgot about a trigger. I am an AR guy, I don't know crap about what is out there in bolt-gun triggers. I learned this game on a Rem 700 with a tuned up factory trigger set at 3 pounds, and I didn't mind it. If there's something out there that's better, great, but I want to err on the side of safety and durability-especially in a run and gun, type of match setting. Got any ideas??

 

[earthquake]

Re: What's Your Recipe for Tac Competition Bolt Gun?

Here's what I'm currently building:

M40 contour 8.5" twist Bartlein, .264" blank. Will chamber 6.5CM, 24"
Badger SS recoil lug
Bighorn SA tactical
McRees Precision chassis
Spuhr scope mount
Badger base
Scope: not sure, but leaning towards Vortex Razor
SAS Arbiter TOMB suppressor

YMMV.

 

[Pusher591]

Re: What's Your Recipe for Tac Competition Bolt Gun?

Touché in regards to the Wheaties and carry a SAW around

You'll have a sweet rig. I really like the T2 and T4's. I'm going T4 this time. I actually have a A3-5 on my Surgeon and I really like it too. Heres my current rig. Its not extremely heavy but for running and gunning or off hand shooting I would like something a few pounds lighter, which is what I'm trying to build now.

 

[CUSTOM1911FAN]

Re: What's Your Recipe for Tac Competition Bolt Gun?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Pusher591</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Touché in regards to the Wheaties and carry a SAW around

You'll have a sweet rig. I really like the T2 and T4's. I'm going T4 this time. I actually have a A3-5 on my Surgeon and I really like it too. Heres my current rig. Its not extremely heavy but for running and gunning or off hand shooting I would like something a few pounds lighter, which is what I'm trying to build now.

</div></div>

That is a beautiful rig, Sir. That reminds me, I forgot the forward rail. You also reminded me that I need to call up Manners and tell them to add 90% carbon to my build sheet.

I theorize that with a non-adjustable 90% T2 stock, a Murphy Titanium 20 moa base (thanks for that), alloy Badger rings, and fluting the barrel, I will hopefully have a rifle with a nice long velocity friendly tube, but that handles like a shorter, lighter gun.

I'm excited about this build and my builder will hopefully start it up on Friday. I can't say who he is, but the last rifle he built me was a 308 Rem 700 that shot .41" with Black Hills 175, with nothing more than "blueprinted" factory components. I am anxious to see what happens when I give him better components to work with.

Thanks for the advice. Let me know how your build goes. I will likely be out your way (Moyock, NC) putting this rifle through its paces and re-learning long range shooting, with this new rifle-around June. Maybe we can ding some steel together.

Cheers!

 

[JB02]

Re: What's Your Recipe for Tac Competition Bolt Gun?

I only have experience with single stage triggers, Jewell, Remington, and Timney. A Jewell is nice but expensive. Remington is good provided a gunsmith tunes it; if you already have one Mark Gordon at SAC charges $65 to tune one up. Timney is what I would if I didn't have anything at all. If you order from the factory, you can specify a pull weight; you can install a Timney yourself. I've heard good things about Rifle Basix, but have never tried one. As far as a two stage trigger, someone else would need to chime in.

 

[BoilerUP]

Re: What's Your Recipe for Tac Competition Bolt Gun?

Lemme preface this with the fact that I DON'T COMPETE.

The big difference between a McMillan A5 and the Manners T2, besides the butt hook, is the Manners has a larger palm swell. I loved my T2, but after picking up an A5 it just fit me better.

Also, my 260 is currently a 26" Savage Varmint contour (basically a Sendero) and it is damn front heavy without an integrated adjustable cheekpiece; with a thumbwheel cheekpiece it balances substantially better. Not a big deal off a bipod or rest, but offhand (even slung) isn't terribly comfortable to me. Then again, I probably need to eat more Wheaties too...

 

[idcastandblast]

Re: What's Your Recipe for Tac Competition Bolt Gun?

What kind of brake is on this gun. Looks awesome,

 

[CUSTOM1911FAN]

Here it is!! The gun that SH built.

Well, the build took me alot longer than I thought, due to scarcity of parts. But here we are.

So here's what I ended up with:

Manners T2A, in coyote tan/brown
Holland Lug
Stock trigger worked over a bit.
Squared/blueprinted Rem 700 S/A stainless receiver. Bolt lugs lapped for 100 % contact
Bartlein 5R M-24 profile 1-8 stainless barrel finished to about 26" and chamber cut for 6.5 Creedmoor.
I can't remember the bottom metal, but it takes AI mags.
Surefire 7.62 muzzle brake
Badger 20 MOA base.
Badger 34mm Rings
S&B PMII 3-20 scope with Horus H59 reticle.
I can't say who did the work, but it was expertly assembled, bedded, and Cerakoted.

A few notes:
I think it is a bit plain looking. I will add a nifty camo finish, at some point. I like Dimensions by Holmes's work.
The rings ended up being a bit high, I'll go lower.
The scope is an interim deal-I really want the 5-25 S&B, but it will take 16 weeks to order in it with the MSR reticle that I want, and I will have to pony up an other pile of cash to get it. So, in the meantime, I will play with this 3-20 and see what all the buzz is about regarding the Horus reticle. I learned on a Leupold TMR reticle, so I'll approach this Horus thing with a fresh perspective and give it a thorough evaluation. This setup will likely end up at Rifles Only course, later this year. After I get my 5-25 in, I will move this 3-20 over to a compact/lightweight - suppressed 7.62 folder build that I have going. That is, unless I end up hating the Horus reticle and end up selling the scope.

I am out and about for a bit, so my pals at home are gonna do a good break in and hopefully, I'll have some pictures of shot groups, soon. I hope to God it shoots well!

Thanks for all of your input.

<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/31582006@N05/8493459677/" title="Image by custom45fan, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8518/8493459677_32b29ac088_c.jpg" width="800" height="245" alt="Image"></a>

<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/31582006@N05/8494560340/" title="Image 2 by custom45fan, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8390/8494560340_e6e22aafae_c.jpg" width="800" height="266" alt="Image 2"></a>

<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/31582006@N05/8494562954/" title="Image 1 by custom45fan, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8242/8494562954_3446955d23_c.jpg" width="800" height="600" alt="Image 1"></a>

 

[M24_SWS]

That rifle looks very nice. I was looking at the Manners stocks yesterday and the T2 and T4 adjustable versions have really caught my attention.