Primer pockets loosening up, primers leaking, stuck bolt handles..... I have been reloading for 18 years now, and have never had a primer pocket loosen up, or any of these other pressure related issues. I guess I don't see the reasoning in cramming as much powder as possible in a case and seeing if I can squeeze out another 8fps. Why do so many folks see the need to beat their gear up? I am not trying to be critical, I am realing trying to see if anyone can give me a compelling reason to do this.
- Thread starter nso123
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Re: Why do so many folks want to load ammo so hot?
well here's my take on it...
they're sheep, just following the herd...
first we'll address the average "hunter", he thinks like Tim "the toolman" Taylor.... "MORE POWER"
then we have "target shooters", they see top competitors talking about milking a few more FPS out of a round (at the top a few FPS for a flatter trajectory or a little less wind drift might actually help) and they think that .1 MOA matters in their shooting too, so they follow the herd...
same reason you see guys that never shoot over a couple hundred yards, and they're shooting a 26" heavy barreled rifle, that weighs 20lbs... and they're shooting 3 shot groups
well here's my take on it...
they're sheep, just following the herd...
first we'll address the average "hunter", he thinks like Tim "the toolman" Taylor.... "MORE POWER"
then we have "target shooters", they see top competitors talking about milking a few more FPS out of a round (at the top a few FPS for a flatter trajectory or a little less wind drift might actually help) and they think that .1 MOA matters in their shooting too, so they follow the herd...
same reason you see guys that never shoot over a couple hundred yards, and they're shooting a 26" heavy barreled rifle, that weighs 20lbs... and they're shooting 3 shot groups
Re: Why do so many folks want to load ammo so hot?
Well I can only speak for myself and what I have seen on these forums..
I am new to reloading, but I know for one I don't have a chrono and haven't seen many posts about what kind to buy and I haven't seen a post in the "I am new to reloading what should I buy" posts that say from one of the vets on this site to get a chrono.
So I would say the reason for the hot loads are no chrono info to know what really the rounds are doing coming down the barrel...
I don't have my Hornady Book with me but I am pretty sure the values they list for fps are not out of the same length barrel I have so right now it is a guessing game till what I get a chrono and see what is really going on.
Well I can only speak for myself and what I have seen on these forums..
I am new to reloading, but I know for one I don't have a chrono and haven't seen many posts about what kind to buy and I haven't seen a post in the "I am new to reloading what should I buy" posts that say from one of the vets on this site to get a chrono.
So I would say the reason for the hot loads are no chrono info to know what really the rounds are doing coming down the barrel...
I don't have my Hornady Book with me but I am pretty sure the values they list for fps are not out of the same length barrel I have so right now it is a guessing game till what I get a chrono and see what is really going on.
Re: Why do so many folks want to load ammo so hot?
Force_Multiplier pretty much summed it up. It's a Guy thing, bigger is better in pretty much anything from boobs to horsepower to tires to scopes to fps. They seem to worry about those last fps for wind and less elevation adjustment they say but if you can't hit it then that really fast miss going by don't do much for ya.
A case is designed for a certain weight bullet to run within a certain speed corridor, if you want to go faster you step up to a larger case designed for that instead of pushing your little Festiva to try and keep up with a Corvette.
I'll take more hits with less wear on barrel/cases/equipment and a few fps slower over a screeming zinger that eats barrels faster than I can order them and toss the brass after each shot.
Topstrap
Force_Multiplier pretty much summed it up. It's a Guy thing, bigger is better in pretty much anything from boobs to horsepower to tires to scopes to fps. They seem to worry about those last fps for wind and less elevation adjustment they say but if you can't hit it then that really fast miss going by don't do much for ya.
A case is designed for a certain weight bullet to run within a certain speed corridor, if you want to go faster you step up to a larger case designed for that instead of pushing your little Festiva to try and keep up with a Corvette.
I'll take more hits with less wear on barrel/cases/equipment and a few fps slower over a screeming zinger that eats barrels faster than I can order them and toss the brass after each shot.
Topstrap
Re: Why do so many folks want to load ammo so hot?
The idea is to see what your barrel shoots best. How do you know your getting the most accurate load if you don't test it to the max ? What do you do, just stop when your get an ok group or keep checking different loads to see what is best.
When I started reloading I was told to load into the lands and check for pressure in order to see what is your max, then you know not to go over that. Then change your charge weight and COL to get your best group.
If the guys shooting competition and winning them do something why should we not do the same. Faster may not be better but how would you know if you don't check ?
The idea is to see what your barrel shoots best. How do you know your getting the most accurate load if you don't test it to the max ? What do you do, just stop when your get an ok group or keep checking different loads to see what is best.
When I started reloading I was told to load into the lands and check for pressure in order to see what is your max, then you know not to go over that. Then change your charge weight and COL to get your best group.
If the guys shooting competition and winning them do something why should we not do the same. Faster may not be better but how would you know if you don't check ?
Re: Why do so many folks want to load ammo so hot?
I think you'll find as you get closer to your rifles max, ES/SD decreases, where problems come into the picture is the tools used to create such rounds, a super accurate scale is an absolute must, close to the edge every kernel counts.
I think you'll find as you get closer to your rifles max, ES/SD decreases, where problems come into the picture is the tools used to create such rounds, a super accurate scale is an absolute must, close to the edge every kernel counts.
Re: Why do so many folks want to load ammo so hot?
Testosterone! This can't be my reason, I'm devorced!!!! Back in my day (1970's) everyone ran hot and fast. I have now started to slow things down because of replacement costs.Example: my dad still is diapointed that I quit shooting in a match(Iwas 14) when my bullet wasn't making it to the target and my last shot made the bolt lift so stiff I had to take the gun out off the bench to apply enough force to open the bolt. Three reloading before case split was considered normal in the hot varmit calibers.
Testosterone! This can't be my reason, I'm devorced!!!! Back in my day (1970's) everyone ran hot and fast. I have now started to slow things down because of replacement costs.Example: my dad still is diapointed that I quit shooting in a match(Iwas 14) when my bullet wasn't making it to the target and my last shot made the bolt lift so stiff I had to take the gun out off the bench to apply enough force to open the bolt. Three reloading before case split was considered normal in the hot varmit calibers.
Re: Why do so many folks want to load ammo so hot?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: NSO123</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Primer pockets loosening up, primers leaking, stuck bolt handles..... I have been reloading for 18 years now, and have never had a primer pocket loosen up, or any of these other pressure related issues. I guess I don't see the reasoning in cramming as much powder as possible in a case and seeing if I can squeeze out another 8fps. Why do so many folks see the need to beat their gear up? I am not trying to be critical, I am realing trying to see if anyone can give me a compelling reason to do this. </div></div>
They don't know any better? That said I have certainly found times myself pushing the pressure limit when exploring a new load trying to make it to the next accuracy node. But for the most part I found this just means I need to change powders for a given bullet and weight or accept a slightly slower velocity.
I think for a given bullet and case volume you will get the best results by finding a powder that puts you very close to 100% case fill and the calculated OBT. Sometimes slower is better and sometimes faster is better. I have tried this idea using QuickLoad and my PVM21 chrono and it seems to work out fairly close. Anecdotal evidence seems to confirm the OBT theory works well or at the very least that there is a relationship between barrel time and observed accuracy nodes. You can reverse the calculation for popular factory ammo and common barrel lengths and it seems to line up for the most part pretty well.
HTH!
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: NSO123</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Primer pockets loosening up, primers leaking, stuck bolt handles..... I have been reloading for 18 years now, and have never had a primer pocket loosen up, or any of these other pressure related issues. I guess I don't see the reasoning in cramming as much powder as possible in a case and seeing if I can squeeze out another 8fps. Why do so many folks see the need to beat their gear up? I am not trying to be critical, I am realing trying to see if anyone can give me a compelling reason to do this. </div></div>
They don't know any better? That said I have certainly found times myself pushing the pressure limit when exploring a new load trying to make it to the next accuracy node. But for the most part I found this just means I need to change powders for a given bullet and weight or accept a slightly slower velocity.
I think for a given bullet and case volume you will get the best results by finding a powder that puts you very close to 100% case fill and the calculated OBT. Sometimes slower is better and sometimes faster is better. I have tried this idea using QuickLoad and my PVM21 chrono and it seems to work out fairly close. Anecdotal evidence seems to confirm the OBT theory works well or at the very least that there is a relationship between barrel time and observed accuracy nodes. You can reverse the calculation for popular factory ammo and common barrel lengths and it seems to line up for the most part pretty well.
HTH!
Re: Why do so many folks want to load ammo so hot?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 427Cobra</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I think you'll find as you get closer to your rifles max, ES/SD decreases, where problems come into the picture is the tools used to create such rounds, a super accurate scale is an absolute must, close to the edge every kernel counts. </div></div>
This. It seems that the best load for any rifle is always on the edge. The next lower node is often well off the max capability of the chambering. It is hard to give up that extra performance even if the results on target don't always show it helping.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 427Cobra</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I think you'll find as you get closer to your rifles max, ES/SD decreases, where problems come into the picture is the tools used to create such rounds, a super accurate scale is an absolute must, close to the edge every kernel counts. </div></div>
This. It seems that the best load for any rifle is always on the edge. The next lower node is often well off the max capability of the chambering. It is hard to give up that extra performance even if the results on target don't always show it helping.
Re: Why do so many folks want to load ammo so hot?
Why?? Because if shoots if it shoots. Hot or not. Example. I currently run 72.9 grains of r22 w/ a 208 amax in my .300 win mag. Book says 72.4. At 1200 yards I was shooting 10" groups. A gun likes what it likes.
Why?? Because if shoots if it shoots. Hot or not. Example. I currently run 72.9 grains of r22 w/ a 208 amax in my .300 win mag. Book says 72.4. At 1200 yards I was shooting 10" groups. A gun likes what it likes.
Re: Why do so many folks want to load ammo so hot?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Force_Multiplier</div><div class="ubbcode-body">well here's my take on it...
they're sheep, just following the herd...
first we'll address the average "hunter", he thinks like Tim "the toolman" Taylor.... "MORE POWER"
then we have "target shooters", they see top competitors talking about milking a few more FPS out of a round (at the top a few FPS for a flatter trajectory or a little less wind drift might actually help) and they think that .1 MOA matters in their shooting too, so they follow the herd...
same reason you see guys that never shoot over a couple hundred yards, and they're shooting a 26" heavy barreled rifle, that weighs 20lbs... and they're shooting 3 shot groups </div></div>
I disagree. I'm sure that there are many out there just like you describe, however not all of us are like that.
Both my 308's and 338's loads are on the higher end of the pressure scale. I wasn't purposefully chasing more FPS. However I let the accuracy do the talking. Both of them had much better accuracy and ES/SD spreads in the higher pressure accuracy node.
I have an AR and I run cheap underpowered tula ammo through the AR, because with a red dot and off hand, It's more than enough. However with my bolt guns I expect a much higher standard of accuracy and lower round counts. So I load whatever my rifle likes best.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Force_Multiplier</div><div class="ubbcode-body">well here's my take on it...
they're sheep, just following the herd...
first we'll address the average "hunter", he thinks like Tim "the toolman" Taylor.... "MORE POWER"
then we have "target shooters", they see top competitors talking about milking a few more FPS out of a round (at the top a few FPS for a flatter trajectory or a little less wind drift might actually help) and they think that .1 MOA matters in their shooting too, so they follow the herd...
same reason you see guys that never shoot over a couple hundred yards, and they're shooting a 26" heavy barreled rifle, that weighs 20lbs... and they're shooting 3 shot groups </div></div>
I disagree. I'm sure that there are many out there just like you describe, however not all of us are like that.
Both my 308's and 338's loads are on the higher end of the pressure scale. I wasn't purposefully chasing more FPS. However I let the accuracy do the talking. Both of them had much better accuracy and ES/SD spreads in the higher pressure accuracy node.
I have an AR and I run cheap underpowered tula ammo through the AR, because with a red dot and off hand, It's more than enough. However with my bolt guns I expect a much higher standard of accuracy and lower round counts. So I load whatever my rifle likes best.
Re: Why do so many folks want to load ammo so hot?
My 243 win can easily handle 100g's at over 2800 fps, yet for 500 yards it actually prefers to run closer to 2600 for better consistency. I'm sure most who been around a while (or who read up on this sport, or are trained) discovered that long before I did. So while I'm sure there are lots of folks who like them hot, there are those who aim for consistency and that's not necessary the hottest.
My 243 win can easily handle 100g's at over 2800 fps, yet for 500 yards it actually prefers to run closer to 2600 for better consistency. I'm sure most who been around a while (or who read up on this sport, or are trained) discovered that long before I did. So while I'm sure there are lots of folks who like them hot, there are those who aim for consistency and that's not necessary the hottest.
Re: Why do so many folks want to load ammo so hot?
I don't chase hot I had a good friend chase it for me many many years ago.He said that after putting many barrels on the same action got to old and costed him to much.After that he chased up to 2900 fps with accuracy,then stopped while finishing with tweaking the load in the length of the round.Been working for me now all most 15 years and still running the same barrels.
Hint they have lots of money to buy and have barrels put back on.No,I have no clue to why other than its just something they want or need to do.Reloading is to each is their own.
I don't chase hot I had a good friend chase it for me many many years ago.He said that after putting many barrels on the same action got to old and costed him to much.After that he chased up to 2900 fps with accuracy,then stopped while finishing with tweaking the load in the length of the round.Been working for me now all most 15 years and still running the same barrels.
Hint they have lots of money to buy and have barrels put back on.No,I have no clue to why other than its just something they want or need to do.Reloading is to each is their own.
Re: Why do so many folks want to load ammo so hot?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Radar86</div><div class="ubbcode-body">My 243 win can easily handle 100g's at over 2800 fps, yet for 500 yards it actually prefers to run closer to 2600 for better consistency. I'm sure most who been around a while (or who read up on this sport, or are trained) discovered that long before I did. So while I'm sure there are lots of folks who like them hot, there are those who aim for consistency and that's not necessary the hottest. </div></div>
Wow, a guy on here actually runs a 243 with a 100 gr bullets at 2800! You are a rare one, I thought I was backed off shooting my 115's at 2950! Most are in that 3000-3100 range. I have decided that lower pressure equals longer case, barrel life and is way more reliable.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Radar86</div><div class="ubbcode-body">My 243 win can easily handle 100g's at over 2800 fps, yet for 500 yards it actually prefers to run closer to 2600 for better consistency. I'm sure most who been around a while (or who read up on this sport, or are trained) discovered that long before I did. So while I'm sure there are lots of folks who like them hot, there are those who aim for consistency and that's not necessary the hottest. </div></div>
Wow, a guy on here actually runs a 243 with a 100 gr bullets at 2800! You are a rare one, I thought I was backed off shooting my 115's at 2950! Most are in that 3000-3100 range. I have decided that lower pressure equals longer case, barrel life and is way more reliable.
Re: Why do so many folks want to load ammo so hot?
I agree seems everyone wants hot reloads. I try to replicate factory ammo as close as possible, because I will be forced to use factory ammo in certain instances.
My brother-in-law wanted to come over and use my equipment to in his words "soup up" his loads for his 22-250. Are you kidding me like someone already said buy a .300 Win mag if the 22-250 is not cutting it for you.
I agree seems everyone wants hot reloads. I try to replicate factory ammo as close as possible, because I will be forced to use factory ammo in certain instances.
My brother-in-law wanted to come over and use my equipment to in his words "soup up" his loads for his 22-250. Are you kidding me like someone already said buy a .300 Win mag if the 22-250 is not cutting it for you.
Re: Why do so many folks want to load ammo so hot?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: NSO123</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Primer pockets loosening up, primers leaking, stuck bolt handles..... </div></div>
These things happen sometimes during load development, especially working with powders that are not in manuals yet.
I've never heard of anyone loading to these levels, for their everyday go-to load.
And yes, near the top, ES SD does tend to settle down.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: NSO123</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Primer pockets loosening up, primers leaking, stuck bolt handles..... </div></div>
These things happen sometimes during load development, especially working with powders that are not in manuals yet.
I've never heard of anyone loading to these levels, for their everyday go-to load.
And yes, near the top, ES SD does tend to settle down.
Re: Why do so many folks want to load ammo so hot?
Here are top good reasons to run hot:
1) Staying 20% above the speed of sound at distance
2) You find that accuracy increases at a higher node
3) You find that ES/SD increases at a higher node
Here are top bad reasons to run hot:
1) To fight the wind better
2) To shoot flatter
3) Your cartridge is only showing "mild" pressure signs
In a 308, in order to be competitive at 1,000 yards, you have to beat the speed of sound by a wide margin. This applies especially to your higher BC bullets, which tend to become more unstable as they approach the transonic region (>mach and <1.2 mach).
Some people swear that faster is tighter. It is very often that I will find a great accuracy node at low velocity that will not take me to 1,000 yards at above the speed of sound. That is great for 100 yard comps like Smack the Smiley, but not good for long distance shooting, which is what most people here are about.
Speed to beat wind or to shoot flatter is stupid. If you need flatter or less wind correction, you need a different projectile or a different cartridge.
A lot of people push the 308 to do what the 308 was not really meant to do. Blame FTR for that. The effective range of the 308 is supposed to be 800 yards. You have to do some craz ythings to do it well at 1,000. But then, that is the fun of it.
Here are top good reasons to run hot:
1) Staying 20% above the speed of sound at distance
2) You find that accuracy increases at a higher node
3) You find that ES/SD increases at a higher node
Here are top bad reasons to run hot:
1) To fight the wind better
2) To shoot flatter
3) Your cartridge is only showing "mild" pressure signs
In a 308, in order to be competitive at 1,000 yards, you have to beat the speed of sound by a wide margin. This applies especially to your higher BC bullets, which tend to become more unstable as they approach the transonic region (>mach and <1.2 mach).
Some people swear that faster is tighter. It is very often that I will find a great accuracy node at low velocity that will not take me to 1,000 yards at above the speed of sound. That is great for 100 yard comps like Smack the Smiley, but not good for long distance shooting, which is what most people here are about.
Speed to beat wind or to shoot flatter is stupid. If you need flatter or less wind correction, you need a different projectile or a different cartridge.
A lot of people push the 308 to do what the 308 was not really meant to do. Blame FTR for that. The effective range of the 308 is supposed to be 800 yards. You have to do some craz ythings to do it well at 1,000. But then, that is the fun of it.
Re: Why do so many folks want to load ammo so hot?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MontanaMarine</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: NSO123</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Primer pockets loosening up, primers leaking, stuck bolt handles..... </div></div>
These things happen sometimes during load development, especially working with powders that are not in manuals yet.
I've never heard of anyone loading to these levels, for their everyday go-to load.
And yes, near the top, ES SD does tend to settle down.</div></div>
Another great point. I also worked up a load that was showing no signs at normal temps and then on a hot day with ammo exposed, I started piercing primers.
There are some who run like this, but I agree, this is the exception, not the rule.
And if I find myself in this situation at a match, I will probably stupidly try to finish the match before I decide to duck out. The testosterone is not so much "bigger, better" as it is the competitive streak.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MontanaMarine</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: NSO123</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Primer pockets loosening up, primers leaking, stuck bolt handles..... </div></div>
These things happen sometimes during load development, especially working with powders that are not in manuals yet.
I've never heard of anyone loading to these levels, for their everyday go-to load.
And yes, near the top, ES SD does tend to settle down.</div></div>
Another great point. I also worked up a load that was showing no signs at normal temps and then on a hot day with ammo exposed, I started piercing primers.
There are some who run like this, but I agree, this is the exception, not the rule.
And if I find myself in this situation at a match, I will probably stupidly try to finish the match before I decide to duck out. The testosterone is not so much "bigger, better" as it is the competitive streak.
Re: Why do so many folks want to load ammo so hot?
Well I got caught up in the 260's. 123gr SMK's at 3000fps would be one heck of a 600 yd rifle. Got a Stiller action, Manners stock, Rifle Basix trigger, brand X barrel. Couldn't get 3000. Took Brand X off and screwed Brand Y on. I still can't get 3000. All I want is a 260 that will shoot 3k fps and shoot a 1/2moa group. I'm basically $2000 into this. Everything you read, barrel makers, bullet makers, 3000fps ain't asking too much for a 260 with a 123gr bullet. This is how you get caught up in the velocity #'s game. And I haven't given up yet! krw
Well I got caught up in the 260's. 123gr SMK's at 3000fps would be one heck of a 600 yd rifle. Got a Stiller action, Manners stock, Rifle Basix trigger, brand X barrel. Couldn't get 3000. Took Brand X off and screwed Brand Y on. I still can't get 3000. All I want is a 260 that will shoot 3k fps and shoot a 1/2moa group. I'm basically $2000 into this. Everything you read, barrel makers, bullet makers, 3000fps ain't asking too much for a 260 with a 123gr bullet. This is how you get caught up in the velocity #'s game. And I haven't given up yet! krw
Re: Why do so many folks want to load ammo so hot?
Well... in all honesty I also run 243's beyond 3000fps <smile>, but with a caveat.
With Nosler's Partition 100g & 31.6 of IMR4895 it performs very consistent for me to mid-range right at 2600. And when I move up in speed (just to 2800 or 2850) this particular pill its not as consistent for as the lighter load and I didn't try pushing it any further because I could see it was not getting better. It's okay, but not as consistent as the lighter load. Go figure.
Another fav load I like is SMK 70g HPBT w/33.7 of H322 which results an avg speed of slighly above 3100 (between 3110 and 3132) and is a consistent tack driver all the way to mid-range also. It results in excellent SD for me. But as you know, 70g can still be pushed much faster to at least to 3400 with a Varget load.
I have some other fav's .243 loads that also are above 3000.
But my point is that not everyone here is trying to get the hottest load, admittely lots of folks are. <smile>
Well... in all honesty I also run 243's beyond 3000fps <smile>, but with a caveat.
With Nosler's Partition 100g & 31.6 of IMR4895 it performs very consistent for me to mid-range right at 2600. And when I move up in speed (just to 2800 or 2850) this particular pill its not as consistent for as the lighter load and I didn't try pushing it any further because I could see it was not getting better. It's okay, but not as consistent as the lighter load. Go figure.
Another fav load I like is SMK 70g HPBT w/33.7 of H322 which results an avg speed of slighly above 3100 (between 3110 and 3132) and is a consistent tack driver all the way to mid-range also. It results in excellent SD for me. But as you know, 70g can still be pushed much faster to at least to 3400 with a Varget load.
I have some other fav's .243 loads that also are above 3000.
But my point is that not everyone here is trying to get the hottest load, admittely lots of folks are. <smile>
Re: Why do so many folks want to load ammo so hot?
I don't load for speed I just load for where my rifles like to shoot and whatever the speed is that is what it is. My .243 with the 105 Hyrbids shoots really nice at ~3250fps that is with 45gr of N160 and molly coated. And the rifle holds for an entire 20 round string plus sighters. The primers come out tight so it's not pushing it to the max. Now I could go hotter but I don't.
My 280. Rem is running comfortably around 2890fps with 175 SMK's. I could push that more and get to the low 2900's where it does shoot well but the primer pockets really open up.
The palma rifle with the 185 LRBT's and 45gr of Varget (moly coated) yeah that load is a little stiff, but it shoots really well at 1k.
In general I will find the nodes where the gun shoots. And then say look at the best two. If the faster of the two isn't that much faster I will go to the slower one. But it needs to be within reason.
I don't load for speed I just load for where my rifles like to shoot and whatever the speed is that is what it is. My .243 with the 105 Hyrbids shoots really nice at ~3250fps that is with 45gr of N160 and molly coated. And the rifle holds for an entire 20 round string plus sighters. The primers come out tight so it's not pushing it to the max. Now I could go hotter but I don't.
My 280. Rem is running comfortably around 2890fps with 175 SMK's. I could push that more and get to the low 2900's where it does shoot well but the primer pockets really open up.
The palma rifle with the 185 LRBT's and 45gr of Varget (moly coated) yeah that load is a little stiff, but it shoots really well at 1k.
In general I will find the nodes where the gun shoots. And then say look at the best two. If the faster of the two isn't that much faster I will go to the slower one. But it needs to be within reason.
Re: Why do so many folks want to load ammo so hot?
There's a difference between loading your rounds to get speed and unsafe loading like primers popping and leaking. I load my rounds to get as much velocity as possible without giving up accuracy or safety. I might not get as much life out of my brass but it's the cost of competing. Primer pockets start getting loose? Toss the brass. That doesn't mean you are being unsafe.
There's a difference between loading your rounds to get speed and unsafe loading like primers popping and leaking. I load my rounds to get as much velocity as possible without giving up accuracy or safety. I might not get as much life out of my brass but it's the cost of competing. Primer pockets start getting loose? Toss the brass. That doesn't mean you are being unsafe.
Re: Why do so many folks want to load ammo so hot?
Youth...ah, those were the days when the loads were hot and the women were hotter!
Youth...ah, those were the days when the loads were hot and the women were hotter!
Re: Why do so many folks want to load ammo so hot?
Agree with your statement completely. I know people who run loads way way to hot and on the first firing they are loosing primers, yeah that is to hot. But also no people on the other end one guy in particular that has 3k rounds on his 6.5x284. He doesn't win any matches cause his loads doesn't allow him to be competitive but he will talk about his barrel life and how you don't need to shoot hotter loads. My loads are right with pretty much everyone else who shoots LR and in some cases there are some whose loads are even a little hotter. John Whidden is getting probably another 100fps on his .243 with the 105 vld's and he isn't shooting unsafe loads.
It is the Indian and not the arrow, but your loads do need to be hot enough to allow you to be competitive.
Agree with your statement completely. I know people who run loads way way to hot and on the first firing they are loosing primers, yeah that is to hot. But also no people on the other end one guy in particular that has 3k rounds on his 6.5x284. He doesn't win any matches cause his loads doesn't allow him to be competitive but he will talk about his barrel life and how you don't need to shoot hotter loads. My loads are right with pretty much everyone else who shoots LR and in some cases there are some whose loads are even a little hotter. John Whidden is getting probably another 100fps on his .243 with the 105 vld's and he isn't shooting unsafe loads.
It is the Indian and not the arrow, but your loads do need to be hot enough to allow you to be competitive.
Re: Why do so many folks want to load ammo so hot?
i first loaded for my 22-250 hunting rifle and loaded hot. with a 100 yd zero i like to be able to hold on fur out to 300 yds and hit coyotes.
i first loaded for my 22-250 hunting rifle and loaded hot. with a 100 yd zero i like to be able to hold on fur out to 300 yds and hit coyotes.
Re: Why do so many folks want to load ammo so hot?
It's the American way.
More power Scottie, I need more power. Aye, Jim, I'm giving it all I can, any more and she'll come apart.
Scottie, I need more power.
It's the American way.
More power Scottie, I need more power. Aye, Jim, I'm giving it all I can, any more and she'll come apart.
Scottie, I need more power.
Re: Why do so many folks want to load ammo so hot?
I'd been reloading almost thirty years before I got a chronograph in '93. I had a very accurate .243 deer load my manual said should be giving me about 2950 with a 100 gr. cup and core bullet that killed very dependabily, never lost one with it.
Alas! My shiney new PACT Pro chronograph revealed it didn't quite make 2,700 fps. But I still shoot that same load, it still kills white tail just as well as my .30-06/150 gr. loads and I've never felt the urge to hot rod either rifle.
Now, my old original Browning/Sako HB varminter in .22-250 with a 1 1/2" 12x Unertl ... well, that's a different 4,200 fps/.350" MOA story!
I'd been reloading almost thirty years before I got a chronograph in '93. I had a very accurate .243 deer load my manual said should be giving me about 2950 with a 100 gr. cup and core bullet that killed very dependabily, never lost one with it.
Alas! My shiney new PACT Pro chronograph revealed it didn't quite make 2,700 fps. But I still shoot that same load, it still kills white tail just as well as my .30-06/150 gr. loads and I've never felt the urge to hot rod either rifle.
Now, my old original Browning/Sako HB varminter in .22-250 with a 1 1/2" 12x Unertl ... well, that's a different 4,200 fps/.350" MOA story!
Re: Why do so many folks want to load ammo so hot?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Carter Mayfield</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Some people swear that faster is tighter. It is very often that I will find a great accuracy node at low velocity that will not take me to 1,000 yards at above the speed of sound. That is great for 100 yard comps like Smack the Smiley, but not good for long distance shooting, which is what most people here are about.</div></div>
I have a nice light load that shoots better inside 300 yards than my long range load. This load is so light The necks will crack before the body is even stressed. Case life is approximately infinite. 155 Scenars, 43.6gr Varget CCI primers.
I have a nice long range load that is just inside sane pressure limits. How do I know its inside? Well, I get 30+ reload cycles on Win brass without ever loosing a primer pocket. How close to the edge is it? 155 Scenar 47.8 gr Varget, CCI primer OAL 2.948.
The light load has shot 0.18MoA while the long range load has never shot under 0.33MoA.
I thik the problem is that people just want a load that works and to heck with the rest. I did a complete survey of the gun+barrel+chamber to see that there are 2 OCW nodes and another pretty tollerable load over teh spectrum of charge weight. Few do this. Sad really.
Mitch
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Carter Mayfield</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Some people swear that faster is tighter. It is very often that I will find a great accuracy node at low velocity that will not take me to 1,000 yards at above the speed of sound. That is great for 100 yard comps like Smack the Smiley, but not good for long distance shooting, which is what most people here are about.</div></div>
I have a nice light load that shoots better inside 300 yards than my long range load. This load is so light The necks will crack before the body is even stressed. Case life is approximately infinite. 155 Scenars, 43.6gr Varget CCI primers.
I have a nice long range load that is just inside sane pressure limits. How do I know its inside? Well, I get 30+ reload cycles on Win brass without ever loosing a primer pocket. How close to the edge is it? 155 Scenar 47.8 gr Varget, CCI primer OAL 2.948.
The light load has shot 0.18MoA while the long range load has never shot under 0.33MoA.
I thik the problem is that people just want a load that works and to heck with the rest. I did a complete survey of the gun+barrel+chamber to see that there are 2 OCW nodes and another pretty tollerable load over teh spectrum of charge weight. Few do this. Sad really.
Mitch
Re: Why do so many folks want to load ammo so hot?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Stranded</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Testosterone! </div></div>
+1
My guess it that women would be more likely for comply with load books.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Stranded</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Testosterone! </div></div>
+1
My guess it that women would be more likely for comply with load books.
Re: Why do so many folks want to load ammo so hot?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mk12bill</div><div class="ubbcode-body">In a word, testosterone
</div></div>+1
"you cant fix stupid"
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mk12bill</div><div class="ubbcode-body">In a word, testosterone
"you cant fix stupid"
Re: Why do so many folks want to load ammo so hot?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: krw</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Well I got caught up in the 260's. 123gr SMK's at 3000fps would be one heck of a 600 yd rifle. Got a Stiller action, Manners stock, Rifle Basix trigger, brand X barrel. Couldn't get 3000. Took Brand X off and screwed Brand Y on. I still can't get 3000. All I want is a 260 that will shoot 3k fps and shoot a 1/2moa group. I'm basically $2000 into this. Everything you read, barrel makers, bullet makers, 3000fps ain't asking too much for a 260 with a 123gr bullet. This is how you get caught up in the velocity #'s game. And I haven't given up yet! krw </div></div>
How long and what powder are you using?
I get nearly 3200fps with 123s out of my 26" barrel using RL17; H4350 gets me close to 3100.
That said, with 123s I prefer 39.3gr Varget @ 2930fps...stupidly accurate and "fast enough".
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: krw</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Well I got caught up in the 260's. 123gr SMK's at 3000fps would be one heck of a 600 yd rifle. Got a Stiller action, Manners stock, Rifle Basix trigger, brand X barrel. Couldn't get 3000. Took Brand X off and screwed Brand Y on. I still can't get 3000. All I want is a 260 that will shoot 3k fps and shoot a 1/2moa group. I'm basically $2000 into this. Everything you read, barrel makers, bullet makers, 3000fps ain't asking too much for a 260 with a 123gr bullet. This is how you get caught up in the velocity #'s game. And I haven't given up yet! krw </div></div>
How long and what powder are you using?
I get nearly 3200fps with 123s out of my 26" barrel using RL17; H4350 gets me close to 3100.
That said, with 123s I prefer 39.3gr Varget @ 2930fps...stupidly accurate and "fast enough".
Re: Why do so many folks want to load ammo so hot?
Well 43.0gr H4350 with Lapua brass, BR-2 Primer, and 123SMK gets me 2875fps. 38.5gr Varget will get 2866fps. 41.0gr IMR 4064 will get 3055fps with 25 extreme spread with avg dev of 13. I cannot get the velocitys some of ya'll post on here. Elev difference, Humidity? Would sure like to shoot some of ya'lls blistering 260's in SW Arkansas and see if they will do it here.
Well 43.0gr H4350 with Lapua brass, BR-2 Primer, and 123SMK gets me 2875fps. 38.5gr Varget will get 2866fps. 41.0gr IMR 4064 will get 3055fps with 25 extreme spread with avg dev of 13. I cannot get the velocitys some of ya'll post on here. Elev difference, Humidity? Would sure like to shoot some of ya'lls blistering 260's in SW Arkansas and see if they will do it here.
Re: Why do so many folks want to load ammo so hot?
With 123s in Lapua brass, you should be safe running 44.5-45.0gr of H4350, maybe a little more.
With 123s in Lapua brass, you should be safe running 44.5-45.0gr of H4350, maybe a little more.
Re: Why do so many folks want to load ammo so hot?
Be careful when listening to competitors when they reveal their loads. One way to eliminate competition is to watch the other guy's firarm spit out pieces where pieces aren't supposed to come out.
I figure that if I have to shoot farther I'll just buy a gun that is up to the task----------or call in an air strike
Be careful when listening to competitors when they reveal their loads. One way to eliminate competition is to watch the other guy's firarm spit out pieces where pieces aren't supposed to come out.
I figure that if I have to shoot farther I'll just buy a gun that is up to the task----------or call in an air strike
Re: Why do so many folks want to load ammo so hot?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 2shots</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Radar86</div><div class="ubbcode-body">My 243 win can easily handle 100g's at over 2800 fps, yet for 500 yards it actually prefers to run closer to 2600 for better consistency. I'm sure most who been around a while (or who read up on this sport, or are trained) discovered that long before I did. So while I'm sure there are lots of folks who like them hot, there are those who aim for consistency and that's not necessary the hottest. </div></div>
Wow, a guy on here actually runs a 243 with a 100 gr bullets at 2800! You are a rare one, I thought I was backed off shooting my 115's at 2950! Most are in that 3000-3100 range. I have decided that lower pressure equals longer case, barrel life and is way more reliable. </div></div>
count me in that mix also. the majority of my target stuff is silly soft. i found a node in the 29gn area using 85gn pills. i load that for 100-300 yd days. Which i s90% plus of my shooting. I have some hot stuff that cooks also, but hate to waste the money or extra wear and tear. Not to mention, i get a free bullets worth of powder every 3 throws..
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 2shots</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Radar86</div><div class="ubbcode-body">My 243 win can easily handle 100g's at over 2800 fps, yet for 500 yards it actually prefers to run closer to 2600 for better consistency. I'm sure most who been around a while (or who read up on this sport, or are trained) discovered that long before I did. So while I'm sure there are lots of folks who like them hot, there are those who aim for consistency and that's not necessary the hottest. </div></div>
Wow, a guy on here actually runs a 243 with a 100 gr bullets at 2800! You are a rare one, I thought I was backed off shooting my 115's at 2950! Most are in that 3000-3100 range. I have decided that lower pressure equals longer case, barrel life and is way more reliable. </div></div>
count me in that mix also. the majority of my target stuff is silly soft. i found a node in the 29gn area using 85gn pills. i load that for 100-300 yd days. Which i s90% plus of my shooting. I have some hot stuff that cooks also, but hate to waste the money or extra wear and tear. Not to mention, i get a free bullets worth of powder every 3 throws..
