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6.5 or 6.8?

Tack425

Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
  • Apr 19, 2011
    705
    1,260
    California
    Gentlemen,
    I am looking to get a 6mm upper. I am open to suggestions and value the input and knowledge base in SH. I already have a complete POF 415 5.56 in 16" and a complete POF P308 20". Both have quality triggers Timney and Geissele respectively. I have the short range covered with the 5.56 and longer range covered with the 7.62 so hence the question.

    I am looking for the intermediate round of the 6mm for hogs. Ranges no more than 400yds for hogs where I am hunting. Im looking for the knock down and energy transfer, but don't want to carry a 20" 7.62 around all day...

    Your thoughts?
     
    Re: 6.5 or 6.8?

    My thoughts are you have enough in either platform to kill hogs at your range. Why not dump that money burning a hole in your pocket on ammo for the two you already have?
     
    Re: 6.5 or 6.8?

    Understood on the ammo Dragbag. I have about 1k rounds for each right now. White Mamba, would you go gas or piston for the 6.8?
     
    Re: 6.5 or 6.8?

    I prefer DI just beacause its lighter and i can run a longer free float handguard over the gas block. Cleaning is a non issue for me since i have a dedicated hog gun and only shoot a few bullets at a time.
     
    Re: 6.5 or 6.8?

    The 6.5 will have more energy transfer at longer ranges vs. any other round with a similar weight. It has the highest BC of any round you can run through an AR. 6.8 was designed to have more knockdown power within the average range of the M4 --which is considered to be 300m.

    The 6.5, and I graphed this myself against data I found and had from many different barrel lengths and loads, will retain more energy per grain than 7.62 with similar barrel lengths and "average" bullet weights, so 120gr. for 6.5 and 155-168 or so for 7.62. 7.62 starts out faster with more energy, but that changes. At about 600m, the 7.62 slows down to the point that it and the 6.5 are sort of equal in velocity (though 6.5 started out slower) and by 1000m, the 6.5 will generally be travelling faster than the 7.62 will. Also, as you can probably guess from the above, the drop is less severe in the 6.5 too.

    For all practical purposes, the 6.5 does everything the 7.62 does at long range, but in a lighter package with a slightly smaller bullet. It is more accurate. At close range, it is significantly more powerful than 5.56, but not nearly as powerful as 7.62 up close.

    For your ranges, yeah, I'd say you could use either of your rifles you have now. But I have a 6.5G and it is my favorite of all my rifles. .33MOA (mine best with handload 100gr. Hornady AMAX for some reason) good to 1000m (with a heavier bullet) light AR platform. It could very easily be a "do it all" rifle, deer, hogs, coyote, target, competition, 3-gun, defense, whatever. Energy transfer? It hits plates as hard or harder at 200m than the .300BLK firing 125gr. loads, similar to 7.62x39. Both hit much harder than 5.56 and will swing the hell out of a 12" plate on chains with one shot.

    6.8, and I don't own one but I did look a lot into it, just didn't cut the mustard for an accurate weapon to 600m, much less 1000. It has a relatively poor BC, and that translates into significant loss of energy over distance, and a greater, accelerating drop at longer ranges. Basically, the 6.5 can do everything 6.8 can and more. It also has greater range in bullet weight than 6.8. At close range, they both do about the same thing when firing the same bullet weight. Oh, and 6.5 bullets are more common, they are used in other calibers, so for handloading that is a plus.

    Now I mentioned .300BLK, you look into that? To 300m, it does great, much better than I had anticipated. Like I said, the 125gr. load is nearly equivalent to the x39. But unlike the x39, .300BLK probably has the greatest bullet weight range of any AR loading. It will essentially use every .30 bullet from around 100 grains to 220 grains, and some handle 240's okay too. With the 220's, it is very, very quiet. No ear pro at all needed, you can clap your hands louder. Now if you had that, you'd be able to put a suppressor on it and choose between subs or supers. For hunting hogs, you may want to keep with the supers, likely 125's, but you can also use the middle weight bullets, like the 147 to 155. The .300 I have shoots about 1MOA with good ammo (I haven't loaded any yet) and it outperformed my expectations in every way.

    In a nutshell, if you want long range capability in an AR platform with laser beam performance at close range, the 6.5 is it (I honestly think it is the caliber that maxes out what the AR platform is capable of). If you only want 300m performance and good knockdown power (and the ability to suppress subsonic loads and supersonic loads along with all the various bullet types it can handle) then .300BLK is it.

    Oh, and not sure about 6.8, but .300BLK and 6.5G both function well with short barrels, they don't lose a whole lot of energy like say, the 5.56.

    Finally, I understand the ultimate hog gun is the .50Beowulf, but you have to get within 200m of them with lighter bullets, 100 or so with heavier ones. It knocks them down like a thunderbolt. At and after 200m with 334gr. bullets, they start to drop like a rock. I have one of these as well, and it is definitely a blast! But very limited in what you can do with it.

    Hope that helps, I'm an AR nut and I love the high performance, relatively obscure cartridges.
     
    Re: 6.5 or 6.8?

    Strykervet,
    Awesome write up on your experiences. This is the info I was looking for. I am looking for something that is more "all around" but the hog hunting would be its primary function. The ranges of 400yds is because of my experience at those ranges and closer. When Im better at longer distances I will stretch it out, but I want to take an ethical shot so I try to keep it where I am more comfortable with. I am not going to try California hogs with my 5.56.

    For the 300BLK, I did look into it and as you stated, I am not sold on its performance just yet. Being in California, suppressors aren't even an option for me, so another reason I wasn't looking into the 300BLK. For the .50 Beowulf that looks like a hoot to shoot, but the 200m limit just ins't the flexibility I am looking for.

    I like the 6.5options, anyone want to weigh in on the 6.8?
     
    Re: 6.5 or 6.8?

    Either will be great on hogs/deer out to 400. Theyre virtually identical out to that distance. Ammo is usually a little easier to find for the 6.8 ( although nothing is available for much of anything right now) I have both and theyre both great guns. 6.8 has a slight advantage with shorter barrels due to the faster powders it utilizes. 6.5 has the advantage at shooting long distances but does do better withlonger barrels.

    300BO for hogs at 400yds??? Its a good round, but thats twice the dustance you should be shootng hogs with it.
     
    Re: 6.5 or 6.8?

    The 6.8 is a great hunting cartridge out to around 400 yards, maybe even 500 if you are a real good shot, but the 6.5 does have the advantage of of higher BC bullets. Out of the same barrel length, though, both perform very similarly and can shoot targets out to 1000 yards with the right load. I posted this comparison between factory ammunition between these two rounds in another thread, here are some numbers between them, both set of numbers are out of a 16" barrel:

    6.5grendel 16" barrel
    factory 123gr. Amax 2350fps according to Hornady
    600 yards: 1558fps 19.6 MOA drop
    1000 yards: 1139fps 45.6 MOA drop

    6.8 spc 16" barrel
    factory 140gr. Berger vld 2401fps according to SSA
    600 yards: 1564fps 18.6 MOA drop
    1000 yards: 1126fps 44.37 MOA drop

    The 6.8 is just starting to develop as a target gun, people are starting to try heavier rounds in the 120-140gr. range to try to increase its range and the 6.8 has proven itself capable of shooting targets out far.

    With all that said, both perform equally in my eyes, just pick one that you feel comfortable with and that appeals to you the most, I went the 6.8 route only because I went for a lefty AR, and they don't make lefty 6.5's.
     
    Re: 6.5 or 6.8?

    I just went through the 6.8 vs 6.5 debate and went with the 6.5 for all of the reasons listed above. Not sure what you're looking to spend, but it seems like there are more options available for 6.8 barrels than 6.5 barrels.
     
    Re: 6.5 or 6.8?

    I run a 6.8 for hunting as it is hard to beat out to 400yds on game. Accuracy is on par with the 6.5, not sure where the fan boys get that idea from unless they have never shot a 6.8.

    I'm building a .264 gARP for some long range steel banging to replace my .308. I plan to run the factory Hornady 6.5G ammo until I get dies...

    Both are great choices and offer the most from the AR15 platform IMO. The better BC of the .264 bullets offers an advantge when you are talking long distances as the drop and wind is less. The 6.8 has a lot more support with more coming this year. Stay tuned at SHOT show news for cheap ammo.
     
    Re: 6.5 or 6.8?

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Strykervet</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
    Oh, and not sure about 6.8, but .300BLK and 6.5G both function well with short barrels, they don't lose a whole lot of energy like say, the 5.56.
    </div></div>

    That is the 6.8's sweet spot, short barrels, it preforms better than both the 300BO or .264/6.5. I see no reason to go less than a 16" for a .264, after that you are giving up any advantage it has. The 300BO does do well with SBR setups but lacks the performance when compared to either the 6.8 or .264.
     
    Re: 6.5 or 6.8?

    I'll take $6.80 over $6.50. That's my analysis of it.
    grin.gif
     
    Re: 6.5 or 6.8?

    Do you reload? I do, so im not as up to date on factory ammo, but you might look into it for your decision. With SSA, wilson combat and hornady all reloading for the 6.8, with tough hunting bullets like the barnes 95ttsx, nosler 100 and 110 grain accubonds , and the hornady sst, you might find there are a lot more loads designed for hunting for the 6.8. Im not sayimg there arent hunting rounds loaded for the 6.5, but i think its been more target/competition oriented and there arent as many loads on the market. If you reload, you cant and wont go wrong with either.
     
    Re: 6.5 or 6.8?


    You want a 6mm upper? Neither 6.5, nor 6.8 is it. They won't fit down the barrel, numbskulls. The question was about 6mm though framed as 6.5/6.8. Either the op or the responders are confused.

    In any event, neither 6.5 nor 6.8 are nearly as superior in performance at 6AR, Turbo, RAT, WO, BRX. 105Amax @2850? This is where its at. Superior bullets available. Superior ballistics. Superior accuracy. Anything else?

    P.S. If you don't hand load, get started. All there is to know can be learned right here on the internet.
     
    Re: 6.5 or 6.8?

    Its a but confusing but from the looks of his topic heading, post, and his reply, it looks to me like hes wanting a comparison of the "6mm range" hunting cartridges. Using 6mm as a reference sort of like we would saying "30 caliber" encompassing everything from 300bo up through 30-378. Thats how I read it anyway. With the thread title , 6.5 or 6.8 I believe hes looking at those two.

    6mm have less wind drift and drop, but shooting tough animals like pigs at 400, the 6.5 and 6.8 are superior IME.
     
    Re: 6.5 or 6.8?

    6.5 does just fine out of short barrels. 800ft lbs of energy @ 370 yards from a 12.5" barrel. Factory ammo? Hornady 123Amax and SST.
     
    Re: 6.5 or 6.8?

    The 6.5 is decent with a short barrel, I didnt say it was bad, but that the 6.8 has an advantage with the short barrel. It has less effect on the 6.8 than the 6.5.

    Amax isnt a hunting load, its a thin jacketed target bullet. From the disection pictures ive seen, hornady didnt do well with the SST. Its an amax with a cannelure. They should have made it with thicker walls like they did the 6.8 SST. disapointing IMHO. There are threads on the amax and sst on the grendel forum right now. That said, I didnt say there are no factory loads, just that there are more hunting loads available for the 6.8 at the moment. Its a consideration for the OP depending on whether he handloads or not.
     
    Re: 6.5 or 6.8?

    Lets not forget that the 6.8 was designed around the 14.5-16" barrels commonly in use by the military and civilian markets, out of 16" barrels the 6.8 outperforms all the others in its class with more energy and a velocity advantage over the 6.5 that helps its lower BC rounds reach as far as the 6.5, the 6.5 gets better with longer barrels since it gains a bit more velocity per inch than the 6.8 does (something like 30-40fps per inch for the 6.5 vs around 20-25fps per inch for the 6.8), nothing beats the 6.8 in terms of energy out of a 16" barrel, its probably true out of 20" barrel as well, but I'm not familiar with the numbers of the 6.5 out of a 20" barrel.
     
    Re: 6.5 or 6.8?

    Gentlemen,
    Thanks for all the information. I am learning a lot. As stated earlier I should have said 6.5 and 6.8 and not the 6mm. I want to also clarify I won't be hand loading right away, but will get into it when I have the space to do so. Im really looking for an upper that is "do most" and can work with either of the lowers I already have. Not looking for a complete rifle, I would go a bolt for that. Im looking for something in the middle of the 5.56 and 7.62 that will "do most" and will drop California hogs.

    Sorry for not clarifying that in the OP
     
    Re: 6.5 or 6.8?


    Tack, check in with our friend here on the Hide who builds AR's in Arizona.
    He's reliable. Don't recall his name but someone will tell us.
     
    Re: 6.5 or 6.8?

    I have a 6.8 and mags already, but never see mags for 6.5. What mags does it take and how is cost and availability?
     
    Re: 6.5 or 6.8?

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: adrenaline junkie</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The 6.5 is decent with a short barrel, I didnt say it was bad, but that the 6.8 has an advantage with the short barrel. It has less effect on the 6.8 than the 6.5.

    Amax isnt a hunting load, its a thin jacketed target bullet. From the disection pictures ive seen, hornady didnt do well with the SST. Its an amax with a cannelure. They should have made it with thicker walls like they did the 6.8 SST. disapointing IMHO. There are threads on the amax and sst on the grendel forum right now. That said, I didnt say there are no factory loads, just that there are more hunting loads available for the 6.8 at the moment. Its a consideration for the OP depending on whether he handloads or not. </div></div>

    Again, the Grendel does just fine with a short barrel. The example I gave was with a 12.5 inch barrel and it has as much energy at 370 yards as a 6.8 does launching a factory SSA 120 accupoint from a 16" barrel. The SST info from the Grendel Forum:

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Called Hornady about the SST construction. Doug in Technical Service told me the 6.5 123 SST and the 6.5 123 A-MAX have different jackets. The SST jacket is thicker on the bearing surface and has an internal interlock construction. OK that it, straight from the horses mouth.</div></div>
     
    Re: 6.5 or 6.8?

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: rusty815</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Lets not forget that the 6.8 was designed around the 14.5-16" barrels commonly in use by the military and civilian markets, out of 16" barrels the 6.8 outperforms all the others in its class with more energy and a velocity advantage over the 6.5 that helps its lower BC rounds reach as far as the 6.5, the 6.5 gets better with longer barrels since it gains a bit more velocity per inch than the 6.8 does (something like 30-40fps per inch for the 6.5 vs around 20-25fps per inch for the 6.8), nothing beats the 6.8 in terms of energy out of a 16" barrel, its probably true out of 20" barrel as well, but I'm not familiar with the numbers of the 6.5 out of a 20" barrel. </div></div>

    Really? The example I gave was from a 12.5" barrel. Sure the 6.8 120 SSA accupoint load has roughly 100 ft lbs more energy out to 370 yards, but it also has 3.5"s more barrel. A 16" Grendel is in a dead heat with the 6.8.
     
    Re: 6.5 or 6.8?

    I don't think you can really go wrong with either as many have already stated. Personally i think getting the 6.8 parts are easier to include mags, because more people are running that set up. My go to AR is a 6.8 16" Bison Upper, which has a SF brake and Evo rail with an STS Billet lower, Geiselle S3G trigger among other upgrades. I run either barrett or PRI mags and they've been flawless so far.
     
    Re: 6.5 or 6.8?

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Reaper130</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I don't think you can really go wrong with either as many have already stated. Personally i think getting the 6.8 parts are easier to include mags, because more people are running that set up. My go to AR is a 6.8 16" Bison Upper, which has a SF brake and Evo rail with an STS Billet lower, Geiselle S3G trigger among other upgrades. I run either barrett or PRI mags and they've been flawless so far. </div></div>
    I'm with reaper. Although, I have a different set up.
    I use ACS & CPD mags. PRIs & Barretts are $$. Plus, Barretts only load to 2.26 COAL.

    Anyhoo, in a nutshell. The the 6.5G/.264LBC & 6.8 are pretty dead even out to 350-400y. The 6.5 takes over from there due to BC. (Although, the 140gr Berger, 120 SST & 110 Accubond are hot on their tails.)
    The 6.8 does have more industry support.
    Both are excellent calibers! You won't go wrong with either!

    As for the .300blk: It's external ballistics are just a little better than the 7.62x39AK. So, 300yards is really pushing it.

     
    Re: 6.5 or 6.8?

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cjgemm</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Again, the Grendel does just fine with a short barrel. The example I gave was with a 12.5 inch barrel and it has as much energy at 370 yards as a 6.8 does launching a factory SSA 120 accupoint from a 16" barrel.</div></div>

    SSA factory 110gr. accubond has 850ft/lbs of energy at 400 yards, the 140gr. berger round has 800ft/lbs of energy at 510 yards out of a 16" barrel.

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cjgemm</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Really? The example I gave was from a 12.5" barrel. Sure the 6.8 120 SSA accupoint load has roughly 100 ft lbs more energy out to 370 yards, but it also has 3.5"s more barrel. A 16" Grendel is in a dead heat with the 6.8.</div></div>

    Didn't you see my comparison posted above? I compared the 140gr. SSA berger to the 123gr. amax out of a 16" barrel, SSA doesn't make a 120gr. round and I don't believe there is a 120gr. accupoint for the 6.8.
     
    Re: 6.5 or 6.8?

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Strykervet</div><div class="ubbcode-body">...At close range, it is significantly more powerful than 5.56, but not nearly as powerful as 7.62 up close...</div></div>

    Some elaboration on the meaning of "powerful" may be helpful.

    If you mean kinetic energy, a physical value that is neither equivalent nor convertible to "terminal ballistics," yes the 7.62 "has more energy."

    To make a meaningful comparison of terminal ballistics, one must specify variables such as projectile, intervening cover, and terminal velocity.

    Why? One example, 5.56 NATO and 7.62 NATO milspec FMJ fired from 16" barrels will have virtually the same terminal effect on a human being out to 100-150 meters. Introduce cover or better projectiles or distance or other variable and the game changes.

    All that said, I gave the same thought to the choice as Strykervet described and I agree >>> 6.5 Grendel.

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Casey Simpson</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
    Tack, check in with our friend here on the Hide who builds AR's in Arizona.
    He's reliable. Don't recall his name but someone will tell us. </div></div>

    Scott Milkovich
    http://www.specializeddynamics.com
     
    Re: 6.5 or 6.8?

    Gentlemen,
    Thanks so far for all the information thus far. My head is spinning a little on all the information. So far it seems that industry supports the 6.8 a little bit more, but sounds like the 6.5 has growing support. Both look like they will preform at distances over 500 which at this time is past what I can comfortably shoot. And it looks like both will allow me to stretch that distance when I can get some more training and trigger time under my belt, but work, wife and kids all get in the way of that. Lastly sounds like stay around the 16" barrel length whichever route and caliber I go with?
     
    Re: 6.5 or 6.8?

    IMHO, with the way things are right now, your best bet is to try to find one. Any one you can, and feel lucky you found it at a decent price.
    wink.gif
    Luckily, you already have the lower, it should be a little easier to find an upper. You will probably have an easier time finding a 6.8 since there are a few more manufacturers producing them, and many of the 6.5 makers were behind on barrels even before the SHTF due to demand.

    Yes you are right though, either will work perfectly for what you're wanting to do, the 6.8 does have a bit better support while the 6.5 is improving all the time. 16-18 is perfect for hunting, and some target shooting for most distances.
     
    Re: 6.5 or 6.8?

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: rusty815</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cjgemm</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Again, the Grendel does just fine with a short barrel. The example I gave was with a 12.5 inch barrel and it has as much energy at 370 yards as a 6.8 does launching a factory SSA 120 accupoint from a 16" barrel.</div></div>

    SSA factory 110gr. accubond has 850ft/lbs of energy at 400 yards, the 140gr. berger round has 800ft/lbs of energy at 510 yards out of a 16" barrel.

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cjgemm</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Really? The example I gave was from a 12.5" barrel. Sure the 6.8 120 SSA accupoint load has roughly 100 ft lbs more energy out to 370 yards, but it also has 3.5"s more barrel. A 16" Grendel is in a dead heat with the 6.8.</div></div>

    Didn't you see my comparison posted above? I compared the 140gr. SSA berger to the 123gr. amax out of a 16" barrel, SSA doesn't make a 120gr. round and I don't believe there is a 120gr. accupoint for the 6.8. </div></div>

    Oops my bad. I meant 110 accubond, but that's where it stops. I'm not sure what bal. Computer your running, but the 110 is about 100 ft lbs less in JBM and Shooter respectively. ie 748 ft lbs @ 400 yards. The 123 is 760 ft lbs at the same distance from a 12.5" barrel. Now the 140 is a more even match out of 16" barrels, it retains more energy across the board albeit not much. Also most 6.5 16" tubes can push a 123 amax factory load about 100 ftps more than your figure above.
     
    Re: 6.5 or 6.8?

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cjgemm</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: rusty815</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cjgemm</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Again, the Grendel does just fine with a short barrel. The example I gave was with a 12.5 inch barrel and it has as much energy at 370 yards as a 6.8 does launching a factory SSA 120 accupoint from a 16" barrel.</div></div>

    SSA factory 110gr. accubond has 850ft/lbs of energy at 400 yards, the 140gr. berger round has 800ft/lbs of energy at 510 yards out of a 16" barrel.

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cjgemm</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Really? The example I gave was from a 12.5" barrel. Sure the 6.8 120 SSA accupoint load has roughly 100 ft lbs more energy out to 370 yards, but it also has 3.5"s more barrel. A 16" Grendel is in a dead heat with the 6.8.</div></div>

    Didn't you see my comparison posted above? I compared the 140gr. SSA berger to the 123gr. amax out of a 16" barrel, SSA doesn't make a 120gr. round and I don't believe there is a 120gr. accupoint for the 6.8. </div></div>

    Oops my bad. I meant 110 accubond, but that's where it stops. I'm not sure what bal. Computer your running, but the 110 is about 100 ft lbs less in JBM and Shooter respectively. ie 748 ft lbs @ 400 yards. The 123 is 760 ft lbs at the same distance from a 12.5" barrel. Now the 140 is a more even match out of 16" barrels, it retains more energy across the board albeit not much. Also most 6.5 16" tubes can push a 123 amax factory load about 100 ftps more than your figure above. </div></div>

    The figure quoted above is straight from hornady, just like the velocity for the 140gr. is straight from SSA. the 110gr. accubond out of a 16" barrel at 2630fps with a BC of .37 has 870ft/lbs (my last figure was an estimation, this is what i get when plugging it all in) of energy at 375 yards according to Strelok ballistic calculator for android, while the 123gr. amax at 2350fps (straight from Hornady) out of a 16" barrel has 910ft/lbs of energy, which is understandable given the weight of the bullet. For comparison, the 140gr. berger at 2401fps (straight from SSA) from a 16" barrel has 1070ft/lbs of energy at 375 yards, thats a difference of 160ft/lbs as opposed to the 40ft/lbs difference between the 110gr. accubond and the amax. For an even more extreme comparison, at 1000 yards the 140gr. round has 400ft/lbs of energy while the 123gr. round has 350ft/lbs, both have nearly identical velocities at 1000 yards. the energy advantage of the 140gr. round at 1000 yards is still greater than the energy advantage the 123gr. round has over the 110gr. round at 370 yards!

    Edit: the 100gr. accubond that SSA has has 750ft/lbs at 400 yards
     
    Re: 6.5 or 6.8?

    All i know is i'm glad i finished up my 6.8 when i did and bought a bunch of mags from Hamlund before all this nonsense started happening. You can't find anything AR related, unless you're willing to pay out the ass for any components.
     
    Re: 6.5 or 6.8?

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: rusty815</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cjgemm</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: rusty815</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cjgemm</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Again, the Grendel does just fine with a short barrel. The example I gave was with a 12.5 inch barrel and it has as much energy at 370 yards as a 6.8 does launching a factory SSA 120 accupoint from a 16" barrel.</div></div>

    SSA factory 110gr. accubond has 850ft/lbs of energy at 400 yards, the 140gr. berger round has 800ft/lbs of energy at 510 yards out of a 16" barrel.

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cjgemm</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Really? The example I gave was from a 12.5" barrel. Sure the 6.8 120 SSA accupoint load has roughly 100 ft lbs more energy out to 370 yards, but it also has 3.5"s more barrel. A 16" Grendel is in a dead heat with the 6.8.</div></div>

    Didn't you see my comparison posted above? I compared the 140gr. SSA berger to the 123gr. amax out of a 16" barrel, SSA doesn't make a 120gr. round and I don't believe there is a 120gr. accupoint for the 6.8. </div></div>

    Oops my bad. I meant 110 accubond, but that's where it stops. I'm not sure what bal. Computer your running, but the 110 is about 100 ft lbs less in JBM and Shooter respectively. ie 748 ft lbs @ 400 yards. The 123 is 760 ft lbs at the same distance from a 12.5" barrel. Now the 140 is a more even match out of 16" barrels, it retains more energy across the board albeit not much. Also most 6.5 16" tubes can push a 123 amax factory load about 100 ftps more than your figure above. </div></div>

    The figure quoted above is straight from hornady, just like the velocity for the 140gr. is straight from SSA. the 110gr. accubond out of a 16" barrel at 2630fps with a BC of .37 has 870ft/lbs (my last figure was an estimation, this is what i get when plugging it all in) of energy at 375 yards according to Strelok ballistic calculator for android, while the 123gr. amax at 2350fps (straight from Hornady) out of a 16" barrel has 910ft/lbs of energy, which is understandable given the weight of the bullet. For comparison, the 140gr. berger at 2401fps (straight from SSA) from a 16" barrel has 1070ft/lbs of energy at 375 yards, thats a difference of 160ft/lbs as opposed to the 40ft/lbs difference between the 110gr. accubond and the amax. For an even more extreme comparison, at 1000 yards the 140gr. round has 400ft/lbs of energy while the 123gr. round has 350ft/lbs, both have nearly identical velocities at 1000 yards. the energy advantage of the 140gr. round at 1000 yards is still greater than the energy advantage the 123gr. round has over the 110gr. round at 370 yards!

    Edit: the 100gr. accubond that SSA has has 750ft/lbs at 400 yards </div></div>

    I re-read your original post and saw you were quoting Hornadys web site, but by the time my phone had data back you had already posted. Tried to look for some rel world data for the 140's but had no luck from a 16" tube.

    Checked out Strelok, definitely different results. So far JBM, Shooter and Loadbase pretty much agree. Strelok seems to be 100 ft lbs of energy more. The reticle part is cool. I like loadbase the best because you can print out DA charts(can with JBM too).

    Look all I'm saying is the Grendel holds its own in 16" (12.5" is great too 2275 fps with factory Hornady)barrels.
     
    Re: 6.5 or 6.8?

    Heres the 140's on SSA's website:

    http://www.ssarmory.com/6.8_spc_ammo_140gr_VLD_Berger.aspx

    heres a chart for the load, my numbers arent too far off, you can see their test barrel is 16"

    http://www.ssarmory.com/images/products/detail/140LRDrop_Table.3.jpg

    keep in mind I have strekok set so that weather conditions mirror what I see here out west, which is why some numbers are high, I did the same for the 123gr. as I did for the others, so my numbers are comparable.

    I'm not saying the 6.5 doesn't hold its own, it does, and it is comparable to the 6.8, both have roughly the same range and similar trajectories, but I would take the 6.8's speed advantage over the 6.5's BC advantage for hunting, both are adequate for target shooting out to 1000 yards though.
     
    Re: 6.5 or 6.8?

    Now that the Grendel is SAAMI approved, it will gain the mfr support it deserves from ammo and arms makers. Either round will definitely get the job done out to 400 on hog/deer sized game. My personal go-to AR15 is a 14.5 Grendel truck gun that does not leave me wanting. But to be fair a .450 Bushy upper is my ultimate hog gun (DRT); just as a particular .556 upper is my all-around varmint tube, but the .204 is my favorite. But then that is what is so great about AR15's----one lower and all the uppers ya want! Hell, get em both!
     
    Re: 6.5 or 6.8?

    I absolutely would LOVE to have both 6.5 and 6.8 uppers to fit in between the 5.56 and 7.62's. but unfortunately my lotto ticket has yet to hit and I can only do one upper for now. Hence the reason for posting the original question.

    That said would you guys go gas or piston for the 6.5 or 6.8? I know that can be another debate, but don't know if someone has good experience with either. I'm running pistons in the other calibers and they are working well for me so far.
     
    Re: 6.5 or 6.8?

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BERTMAN77MK2</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Now that the Grendel is SAAMI approved, it will gain the mfr support it deserves from ammo and arms makers. Either round will definitely get the job done out to 400 on hog/deer sized game. My personal go-to AR15 is a 14.5 Grendel truck gun that does not leave me wanting. But to be fair a .450 Bushy upper is my ultimate hog gun (DRT); just as a particular .556 upper is my all-around varmint tube, but the .204 is my favorite. But then that is what is so great about AR15's----one lower and all the uppers ya want! Hell, get em both! </div></div>

    A dream of mine is to have a lefty 6.5 AR, don't know why, but I want one. Too bad no one even makes a bolt for a left handed AR and the grendel, thats was the primary reason I went to the 6.8 instead of the 6.5 to be honest.
     
    Re: 6.5 or 6.8?

    Rusty,
    Im a lefty also. Are you shooting a left handed AR in 6.8? Does it work well for you?
     
    Re: 6.5 or 6.8?

    I don't have one atm but I have shot the one owned by a cousin in arizona, he had the 5L, I ordered the 7HL, and it did feel a little more comfortable for me, I know the brass shooting out in front of my face distracts me sometimes, so its nice not having that anymore, and when shooting off shoulder there isn't a chance of me getting pelted in the face anymore, so thats always good.
     
    Re: 6.5 or 6.8?

    I don't have one atm but I have shot the one owned by a cousin in arizona, he had the 5L, I ordered the 7HL, and it did feel a little more comfortable for me, I know the brass shooting out in front of my face distracts me sometimes, so its nice not having that anymore, and when shooting off shoulder there isn't a chance of me getting pelted in the face anymore, so thats always good.
     
    Re: 6.5 or 6.8?

    i would go with the 6.8
    not a long range "sniper round" like the 6.5 G is touted as, but it kills quick and is fairly flat like a 77 smk out to 400 yards or so.
     
    Re: 6.5 or 6.8?

    Don't really see the need of a 6.8 piston rifle unless you plan on getting it real dirty, gas will be just fine.
     
    Re: 6.5 or 6.8?

    Don't really see the need of a 6.8 piston rifle unless you plan on getting it real dirty, gas will be just fine.
     
    Re: 6.5 or 6.8?

    Don't really see the need of a 6.8 piston rifle unless you plan on getting it real dirty, gas will be just fine.
     
    Re: 6.5 or 6.8?

    Don't really see the need of a 6.8 piston rifle unless you plan on getting it real dirty, gas will be just fine.