- Thread starter Tack425
- Start date
Re: 6.5 or 6.8?
I just found a deal for $1200 for 6.8POF 14.6" upper with BCG and 40 rounds of ammo...what do you think?
I just found a deal for $1200 for 6.8POF 14.6" upper with BCG and 40 rounds of ammo...what do you think?
Re: 6.5 or 6.8?
gas
to me the piston system is to solve a problem that does not exist.
direct gas systems run 99.99 if you just use good ammunition and keep gas tube and extractor clean.
gas
to me the piston system is to solve a problem that does not exist.
direct gas systems run 99.99 if you just use good ammunition and keep gas tube and extractor clean.
Re: 6.5 or 6.8?
Understood on the gas vs piston. I know there are fans of both camps.
Understood on the gas vs piston. I know there are fans of both camps.
Re: 6.5 or 6.8?
Personally I think for Hogs and 400 yards or less the best bet would be a 300 AAC or Blackout.
I have many guns in the Ar platform and among them I have a 6.5 Grendel, 6.8 SPC, 300 AAC, 556, 7.62x39R and 7.62x51 Nato.
First the 6.5 gendel. I love this caliber! Right now I only have the one rifle, but I have 2 on order. The first build was a 24" SS Fluted barrel, aluminum tube W/bipod on a Magpul PRS. This set-up was for longer ranges, and is still sonic to 1200M. I would,'t use this caliber like I have for hunting. It is extremely accurate, very flat, but not a hunting round. Yes, I would not want to be shot by it, just I think for clean kills you may want more energy/weight.
The 6.8SPC, I have 4 in this caliber. It's a very good 600M and less gun. I do have one with a 24" SS barrel, and set-up like my Grenndel, exactly. I wouldn't really waste the money on another long barrel for this. I like it much better with a 20' to 16" barrel. more portable and very hard hitter. I think this is a great all around rifle, and the one I would grab first if trouble arose.
7.62x39 Truthfully, I like this caliber better on a AK style rife. I have a SKS and AK47 in this caliber and enjoy shooting much better then on a AR platform. Great round for 400M and less, veryhard hitter and feed better in a AK.
7.62x51 Heavy....We have three in this caliber, all AR-10's. Very heavy, we have a 24" 20' and 18" all DPMS and all work very well. The most accurate is the 24" barrel, but it also has the best trigger, stock and scope. I don't have nayhting negative to say about the 308W, its just heavy to carry, but is good for 1000-1100M with the right bullet. 308 is the best all around gun is a bolt action rifle, or I think so. I like it Ar form because it looks nice, recoil is less and is very accurate, just HEAVY
300AAC I just got this rifle a few months ago, and have only put about 40 rounds thruy it. I did not do any accuracy testing, but I think it more or less a 400M orless caliber. The round has mass, which is great, but lacks powder capacity which is the limiting factor. I haven't tried it with a suppressor, but I think that is where it may shine, as a close quarter rifle. You get alot of punch with a very little rifle. Who know's after some more time, it may become my go to rifle??
5.56 Wow, the caliber that started it all...I have always like this round, it is light, accurate and easy to reload. The quality of amunition is one area that has evolved a lot in the last 6 years. His has taken the 5.56 to new levels, and you can not go wrong with this caliber. Cheap to shot, no recoil, accurate, light and list goes on. Probally everyones first AR was a 5.56.
There is really only one more caliber i have not gotten, but want and that would be the 50 Beaowolf from Alaxander Arms. We have a 6.5 grendel from AA and they realy make nice equipment. One day I guess, if the market ever slows down. I must say, with rifles selling out so much, I have really added to my Pistol collection....7 of the last 10 gun purchases were pistols. I love the 1911, and hope to get one in 38 super, YES.
Personally I think for Hogs and 400 yards or less the best bet would be a 300 AAC or Blackout.
I have many guns in the Ar platform and among them I have a 6.5 Grendel, 6.8 SPC, 300 AAC, 556, 7.62x39R and 7.62x51 Nato.
First the 6.5 gendel. I love this caliber! Right now I only have the one rifle, but I have 2 on order. The first build was a 24" SS Fluted barrel, aluminum tube W/bipod on a Magpul PRS. This set-up was for longer ranges, and is still sonic to 1200M. I would,'t use this caliber like I have for hunting. It is extremely accurate, very flat, but not a hunting round. Yes, I would not want to be shot by it, just I think for clean kills you may want more energy/weight.
The 6.8SPC, I have 4 in this caliber. It's a very good 600M and less gun. I do have one with a 24" SS barrel, and set-up like my Grenndel, exactly. I wouldn't really waste the money on another long barrel for this. I like it much better with a 20' to 16" barrel. more portable and very hard hitter. I think this is a great all around rifle, and the one I would grab first if trouble arose.
7.62x39 Truthfully, I like this caliber better on a AK style rife. I have a SKS and AK47 in this caliber and enjoy shooting much better then on a AR platform. Great round for 400M and less, veryhard hitter and feed better in a AK.
7.62x51 Heavy....We have three in this caliber, all AR-10's. Very heavy, we have a 24" 20' and 18" all DPMS and all work very well. The most accurate is the 24" barrel, but it also has the best trigger, stock and scope. I don't have nayhting negative to say about the 308W, its just heavy to carry, but is good for 1000-1100M with the right bullet. 308 is the best all around gun is a bolt action rifle, or I think so. I like it Ar form because it looks nice, recoil is less and is very accurate, just HEAVY
300AAC I just got this rifle a few months ago, and have only put about 40 rounds thruy it. I did not do any accuracy testing, but I think it more or less a 400M orless caliber. The round has mass, which is great, but lacks powder capacity which is the limiting factor. I haven't tried it with a suppressor, but I think that is where it may shine, as a close quarter rifle. You get alot of punch with a very little rifle. Who know's after some more time, it may become my go to rifle??
5.56 Wow, the caliber that started it all...I have always like this round, it is light, accurate and easy to reload. The quality of amunition is one area that has evolved a lot in the last 6 years. His has taken the 5.56 to new levels, and you can not go wrong with this caliber. Cheap to shot, no recoil, accurate, light and list goes on. Probally everyones first AR was a 5.56.
There is really only one more caliber i have not gotten, but want and that would be the 50 Beaowolf from Alaxander Arms. We have a 6.5 grendel from AA and they realy make nice equipment. One day I guess, if the market ever slows down. I must say, with rifles selling out so much, I have really added to my Pistol collection....7 of the last 10 gun purchases were pistols. I love the 1911, and hope to get one in 38 super, YES.
Re: 6.5 or 6.8?
I looked into the 300BLK, but being from California (ya I know) we can not run suppressors so I didn't consider the 300BLK for my use. The AK is on the list of wants, as is a Wilson Combat CQB or Nighthawk GRP.
The reason I want to go with 6.8 or 6.5 is because the hard hitting, short barrel, lighter weight platform for pigs. Talking to other hunters I didn't think my 5.56 would be the best caliber for the200-400yd range even being a decent shooter. With that said, I have a 7.62 20" POF that I love to shoot and know its big enough to take a pig, but it's on the heavier side. Bipod, glass and a 20rd mag don't help with the weight also.
That's why the 6.5-6.8 question. I wanted information on the ballistics, performance, and the set ups that the experienced guys on SH have been using.
I looked into the 300BLK, but being from California (ya I know) we can not run suppressors so I didn't consider the 300BLK for my use. The AK is on the list of wants, as is a Wilson Combat CQB or Nighthawk GRP.
The reason I want to go with 6.8 or 6.5 is because the hard hitting, short barrel, lighter weight platform for pigs. Talking to other hunters I didn't think my 5.56 would be the best caliber for the200-400yd range even being a decent shooter. With that said, I have a 7.62 20" POF that I love to shoot and know its big enough to take a pig, but it's on the heavier side. Bipod, glass and a 20rd mag don't help with the weight also.
That's why the 6.5-6.8 question. I wanted information on the ballistics, performance, and the set ups that the experienced guys on SH have been using.
Re: 6.5 or 6.8?
For 400 yards id rather use a 77-80 grain 223 than a 300BO, the S.D. is horrible on the 300. Good round for 200 or less, definitely not for 400 on hogs.
For 400 yards id rather use a 77-80 grain 223 than a 300BO, the S.D. is horrible on the 300. Good round for 200 or less, definitely not for 400 on hogs.
Re: 6.5 or 6.8?
I cant vouch for 6.8 but i can tell you about my experience with 6.5 grendel. I built a 6.5 with a 20" dmr 6.5 saod barrel. The rifle has a yhm lower, rock river two stage trigger, adams arms low pro rifle length gas system. This is my hunting rifle so ive got a 1-6 x 30 vx6 leupold on it. I can shoot .75" at 100 with this setup. The ammo is cheap 120 gr wolf mpt for about 13-14 per box of 20. The saod chamber handles that and hornady without any issues. All ive killed so far is deer. Ive got 3 head shots, 1 lunger, and a heart shot. Head shots with wolf. The two body shots were with the amax. The deer ran about 30 yds on the two body shots.. both shots almost knocked the deer down before they ran. I love this set up gor hunting. The round is absolutely lethal. It will lay a deer down. I am sure the 6.8 will do the same thing but if you decide you want to try a long shot the 6.8 has limitations. My opinion go with the 6.5. Cheap ammo thats accurate. 6.5 is very accurate and shooting hogs accuracy counts.
I cant vouch for 6.8 but i can tell you about my experience with 6.5 grendel. I built a 6.5 with a 20" dmr 6.5 saod barrel. The rifle has a yhm lower, rock river two stage trigger, adams arms low pro rifle length gas system. This is my hunting rifle so ive got a 1-6 x 30 vx6 leupold on it. I can shoot .75" at 100 with this setup. The ammo is cheap 120 gr wolf mpt for about 13-14 per box of 20. The saod chamber handles that and hornady without any issues. All ive killed so far is deer. Ive got 3 head shots, 1 lunger, and a heart shot. Head shots with wolf. The two body shots were with the amax. The deer ran about 30 yds on the two body shots.. both shots almost knocked the deer down before they ran. I love this set up gor hunting. The round is absolutely lethal. It will lay a deer down. I am sure the 6.8 will do the same thing but if you decide you want to try a long shot the 6.8 has limitations. My opinion go with the 6.5. Cheap ammo thats accurate. 6.5 is very accurate and shooting hogs accuracy counts.
Re: 6.5 or 6.8?
When you run the ballistics of the Grendel vs. the 6.8, both from 16" barrels, the Grendel catches up at around 125yds for velocity and energy, having started 100fps slower.
Instead of comparing the 140gr Berger to the 123gr SST, you can compare the 120gr SST to the 123gr SST to keep it in the same weight class. We could just as easily compare the 140 Berger to the 140 Berger, and the 6.5 will win, even starting 200fps slower, just like it does with my .270 versus my .260 Rem.
One common thing I see is the idea that the Grendel is mainly a target caliber, but most people seem to be interested in it it for hunting. There are way more hunting pills for the Grendel, and more factory hunting loads than you will probably need:
90gr TNT
95gr VMAX
100gr AMAX
115gr Berger
120gr Barnes TTSX
120gr Nosler BT
123gr Wolf SP
123gr Hornady SST
129gr Hornady SST
130gr Nosler Accubond
130gr Swift Scirocco
Many of those are duplicated by both AA and Precision Firearms.
As to the Hornady data for the 16" barrel velocities, those are 14.5" velocities from a pinned muzzle device barrel that equals 16", so add about 100fps to them. Even so, a 14.5" Grendel will deliver the same energy as an 18" 6.8 at 400yds with factory loads comparing the 120gr SST and 123gr SST.
For the hand-loader, you have way more hunting pills to choose from than the 6.8 does, and higher Sectional Density equates to better penetration:
Now that brass availability is sucked up, you can still fire-form 7.62x39 for the Grendel, and the 120gr MPT load from Prvi Partisan under the Wolf Gold label can be had for $12.95 a box from AimSurplus.
Average mv loss with the Grendel from 24" to 16" is 18fps, not 30, but that is not a linear function either.
Both are great cartridges for hunting from the AR15 and micro-action bolt guns. I think the Grendel will do everything the 6.8 will +, which is why I chose it after weighing both options for a few years.
I think the 16" barrel is all you really need in the Grendel for both hunting and target work, which is the same opinion David Fortier came to as an owner of 12.5", 16", 20", and 24" Grendels.
When you run the ballistics of the Grendel vs. the 6.8, both from 16" barrels, the Grendel catches up at around 125yds for velocity and energy, having started 100fps slower.
Instead of comparing the 140gr Berger to the 123gr SST, you can compare the 120gr SST to the 123gr SST to keep it in the same weight class. We could just as easily compare the 140 Berger to the 140 Berger, and the 6.5 will win, even starting 200fps slower, just like it does with my .270 versus my .260 Rem.
One common thing I see is the idea that the Grendel is mainly a target caliber, but most people seem to be interested in it it for hunting. There are way more hunting pills for the Grendel, and more factory hunting loads than you will probably need:
90gr TNT
95gr VMAX
100gr AMAX
115gr Berger
120gr Barnes TTSX
120gr Nosler BT
123gr Wolf SP
123gr Hornady SST
129gr Hornady SST
130gr Nosler Accubond
130gr Swift Scirocco
Many of those are duplicated by both AA and Precision Firearms.
As to the Hornady data for the 16" barrel velocities, those are 14.5" velocities from a pinned muzzle device barrel that equals 16", so add about 100fps to them. Even so, a 14.5" Grendel will deliver the same energy as an 18" 6.8 at 400yds with factory loads comparing the 120gr SST and 123gr SST.
For the hand-loader, you have way more hunting pills to choose from than the 6.8 does, and higher Sectional Density equates to better penetration:
Now that brass availability is sucked up, you can still fire-form 7.62x39 for the Grendel, and the 120gr MPT load from Prvi Partisan under the Wolf Gold label can be had for $12.95 a box from AimSurplus.
Average mv loss with the Grendel from 24" to 16" is 18fps, not 30, but that is not a linear function either.
Both are great cartridges for hunting from the AR15 and micro-action bolt guns. I think the Grendel will do everything the 6.8 will +, which is why I chose it after weighing both options for a few years.
I think the 16" barrel is all you really need in the Grendel for both hunting and target work, which is the same opinion David Fortier came to as an owner of 12.5", 16", 20", and 24" Grendels.
Re: 6.5 or 6.8?
6.5 Grendel
The above post explains it in detail. Here are some visual aides to clarify...
Grendel on Hog @ 60 yds. Hornady 123 amax
Grendel between the eyes 90 yds
300BLK 150 yds
Grendel 60 yds
Grendel 60 yds.
Grendel 60yds
Grendel 60 yds.
Not that it cannot be accomplished, but if you shoot a Hog @ 400yds, expect to be following a blood trail for awhile, no matter the caliber. I have personally killed well over 100 hogs in the last year on hunts with others where we totaled over 370 step on kills from June till November.
Calibers ranged from 5.56, 300blk, 6.5 Grendel, 6.8, 7.62x39, .308 Winchester. 98% were night kills.
Hogs have a will to survive that is rivaled by few other North American animals.
Most of the kills last year were with a 5.56, but multiple hits were usually needed to stop them running. I tried various bullets. When hit with a grendel round, most of the time only one round was needed.
A recent article in Peterson's Hog Hunter magazine detailed caliber selection. The Author described how when a large Hog is hit with a small caliber, its thick fat/shield acts as a gasket and impedes the blood flow out of the wound prolonging the bleed out process. He advised he preferred a round that would penetrate through the animal leaving two holes a leaking.
This theory goes against what most hunters have learned in the past involving energy on target.
Today, I cleaned a Deer that had been killed with a .270 winchester using Barnes Triple Shock.
I do not have a picture, but Barnes is the king of killing shit. Their advertisements are 100% ACCURATE.
Go grendel or go Home
6.5 Grendel
The above post explains it in detail. Here are some visual aides to clarify...
Grendel on Hog @ 60 yds. Hornady 123 amax
Grendel between the eyes 90 yds
300BLK 150 yds
Grendel 60 yds
Grendel 60 yds.
Grendel 60yds
Grendel 60 yds.
Not that it cannot be accomplished, but if you shoot a Hog @ 400yds, expect to be following a blood trail for awhile, no matter the caliber. I have personally killed well over 100 hogs in the last year on hunts with others where we totaled over 370 step on kills from June till November.
Calibers ranged from 5.56, 300blk, 6.5 Grendel, 6.8, 7.62x39, .308 Winchester. 98% were night kills.
Hogs have a will to survive that is rivaled by few other North American animals.
Most of the kills last year were with a 5.56, but multiple hits were usually needed to stop them running. I tried various bullets. When hit with a grendel round, most of the time only one round was needed.
A recent article in Peterson's Hog Hunter magazine detailed caliber selection. The Author described how when a large Hog is hit with a small caliber, its thick fat/shield acts as a gasket and impedes the blood flow out of the wound prolonging the bleed out process. He advised he preferred a round that would penetrate through the animal leaving two holes a leaking.
This theory goes against what most hunters have learned in the past involving energy on target.
Today, I cleaned a Deer that had been killed with a .270 winchester using Barnes Triple Shock.
I do not have a picture, but Barnes is the king of killing shit. Their advertisements are 100% ACCURATE.
Go grendel or go Home
Re: 6.5 or 6.8?
Are these feral ones tasty? Or an.... "acquired taste"?
Are these feral ones tasty? Or an.... "acquired taste"?
Re: 6.5 or 6.8?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LRRPF52</div><div class="ubbcode-body">When you run the ballistics of the Grendel vs. the 6.8, both from 16" barrels, the Grendel catches up at around 125yds for velocity and energy, having started 100fps slower.
Instead of comparing the 140gr Berger to the 123gr SST, you can compare the 120gr SST to the 123gr SST to keep it in the same weight class. We could just as easily compare the 140 Berger to the 140 Berger, and the 6.5 will win, even starting 200fps slower, just like it does with my .270 versus my .260 Rem.
One common thing I see is the idea that the Grendel is mainly a target caliber, but most people seem to be interested in it it for hunting. There are way more hunting pills for the Grendel, and more factory hunting loads than you will probably need:
90gr TNT
95gr VMAX
100gr AMAX
115gr Berger
120gr Barnes TTSX
120gr Nosler BT
123gr Wolf SP
123gr Hornady SST
129gr Hornady SST
130gr Nosler Accubond
130gr Swift Scirocco
Many of those are duplicated by both AA and Precision Firearms.
As to the Hornady data for the 16" barrel velocities, those are 14.5" velocities from a pinned muzzle device barrel that equals 16", so add about 100fps to them. Even so, a 14.5" Grendel will deliver the same energy as an 18" 6.8 at 400yds with factory loads comparing the 120gr SST and 123gr SST.
For the hand-loader, you have way more hunting pills to choose from than the 6.8 does, and higher Sectional Density equates to better penetration:
Now that brass availability is sucked up, you can still fire-form 7.62x39 for the Grendel, and the 120gr MPT load from Prvi Partisan under the Wolf Gold label can be had for $12.95 a box from AimSurplus.
Average mv loss with the Grendel from 24" to 16" is 18fps, not 30, but that is not a linear function either.
Both are great cartridges for hunting from the AR15 and micro-action bolt guns. I think the Grendel will do everything the 6.8 will +, which is why I chose it after weighing both options for a few years.
I think the 16" barrel is all you really need in the Grendel for both hunting and target work, which is the same opinion David Fortier came to as an owner of 12.5", 16", 20", and 24" Grendels.
</div></div>
Too bad most of those hunting bullets were made to open at 260 Rem and 6.5 swed velocities. Bill Waites himself posted the photo of a 120gr TSX recovered from a deer. The petals had barely opened enough to make them wider than the original bullet diameter so no wonder they penetrate well, they work like a FMJ on game which is not what an ethical hunter wants.
Now just this year Hornady is making the 123SST which was designed to open at Grendel velocities. The 100TTSX and 100 Nosler are 2 more that will open up at Grendel velocities.
If you keep that in mind there are a lot more 6.8 bullets that work properly for hunting than there are 6.5 bullets that can be USED in the Grendel/264LBC. It's a different story for target bullets, there are more 6.5 target bullets than 6.8 target bullets since they don't have to expand to kill paper.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LRRPF52</div><div class="ubbcode-body">When you run the ballistics of the Grendel vs. the 6.8, both from 16" barrels, the Grendel catches up at around 125yds for velocity and energy, having started 100fps slower.
Instead of comparing the 140gr Berger to the 123gr SST, you can compare the 120gr SST to the 123gr SST to keep it in the same weight class. We could just as easily compare the 140 Berger to the 140 Berger, and the 6.5 will win, even starting 200fps slower, just like it does with my .270 versus my .260 Rem.
One common thing I see is the idea that the Grendel is mainly a target caliber, but most people seem to be interested in it it for hunting. There are way more hunting pills for the Grendel, and more factory hunting loads than you will probably need:
90gr TNT
95gr VMAX
100gr AMAX
115gr Berger
120gr Barnes TTSX
120gr Nosler BT
123gr Wolf SP
123gr Hornady SST
129gr Hornady SST
130gr Nosler Accubond
130gr Swift Scirocco
Many of those are duplicated by both AA and Precision Firearms.
As to the Hornady data for the 16" barrel velocities, those are 14.5" velocities from a pinned muzzle device barrel that equals 16", so add about 100fps to them. Even so, a 14.5" Grendel will deliver the same energy as an 18" 6.8 at 400yds with factory loads comparing the 120gr SST and 123gr SST.
For the hand-loader, you have way more hunting pills to choose from than the 6.8 does, and higher Sectional Density equates to better penetration:
Now that brass availability is sucked up, you can still fire-form 7.62x39 for the Grendel, and the 120gr MPT load from Prvi Partisan under the Wolf Gold label can be had for $12.95 a box from AimSurplus.
Average mv loss with the Grendel from 24" to 16" is 18fps, not 30, but that is not a linear function either.
Both are great cartridges for hunting from the AR15 and micro-action bolt guns. I think the Grendel will do everything the 6.8 will +, which is why I chose it after weighing both options for a few years.
I think the 16" barrel is all you really need in the Grendel for both hunting and target work, which is the same opinion David Fortier came to as an owner of 12.5", 16", 20", and 24" Grendels.
</div></div>
Too bad most of those hunting bullets were made to open at 260 Rem and 6.5 swed velocities. Bill Waites himself posted the photo of a 120gr TSX recovered from a deer. The petals had barely opened enough to make them wider than the original bullet diameter so no wonder they penetrate well, they work like a FMJ on game which is not what an ethical hunter wants.
Now just this year Hornady is making the 123SST which was designed to open at Grendel velocities. The 100TTSX and 100 Nosler are 2 more that will open up at Grendel velocities.
If you keep that in mind there are a lot more 6.8 bullets that work properly for hunting than there are 6.5 bullets that can be USED in the Grendel/264LBC. It's a different story for target bullets, there are more 6.5 target bullets than 6.8 target bullets since they don't have to expand to kill paper.
Re: 6.5 or 6.8?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Too bad most of those hunting bullets were made to open at 260 Rem and 6.5 swed velocities. Bill Waites himself posted the photo of a 120gr TSX recovered from a deer. The petals had barely opened enough to make them wider than the original bullet diameter so no wonder they penetrate well, they work like a FMJ on game which is not what an ethical hunter wants.
Now just this year Hornady is making the 123SST which was designed to open at Grendel velocities. The 100TTSX and 100 Nosler are 2 more that will open up at Grendel velocities.
If you keep that in mind there are a lot more 6.8 bullets that work properly for hunting than there are 6.5 bullets that can be USED in the Grendel/264LBC. It's a different story for target bullets, there are more 6.5 target bullets than 6.8 target bullets since they don't have to expand to kill paper.</div></div>
Would you agree that 1800fps is a common minimal expansion threshold for many hunting bullets? That takes us way beyond the capabilities of most hunters, with 350-400yds from the Grendel, and a bunch of hunting bullets that will do that from moderate, Grendel velocities:
85gr Sierra Varminter .225 BC
90gr Speer TNT .281 BC
95gr Hornady VMAX .365 BC
100gr Nosler Partition Flat-Base .326 BC
100gr Hornady SP .358 BC
100gr Nosler Ballistic Tip .350 BC
100gr Barnes TTSX .359 BC
120gr Barnes TSX .381 BC
120gr Remington Core-Lokt .323 BC
120gr Swift A-Frame .344 BC
120gr North Folk Soft Point Bonded Core
120gr Nosler Ballistic Tip .458 BC
120gr Speer Hot Cor .433 BC 1.09"
120gr Sierra Pro-Hunter .368 BC
120gr Barnes TTSX .443 BC
120gr Hornady GMX .450 BC
123gr Hornady SST .510 BC
125gr Nosler Partition .449 BC (1.17")
129gr Hornady SST .485 BC (1.30")
129gr Hornady Interbond .485 BC (1.25")
129gr Hornady Interlock Spire Point .445 BC (1.187")
129gr Nosler Accubond Long-Range .561 G1/.285 G7
130gr Sierra Game King HPBT .375 (1850-2400fps BC, .355 2400fps+)
130gr Nosler Accubond .488 BC (1.32")
130gr Berger Hunting VLD .552 G1/.282 G7 (1.389")
130gr Barnes TSX .365 BC (1.325")
130gr Swift Scirocco .571 BC (1.353")
We can push the 100gr pills at 2575-2700fps from a 16" barrel, 120's from 2400-2550fps, and 130's from 2275-2350fps. Those all will do at least 350, if not 400, and some 425yds for an 1800fps expansion. The 129gr Accubond-LR expands down to 1300fps, but does all that really matter when most hunters are taking medium game within 200yds?
I just stopped by almost every one of these manufacturers' booths at SHOT last week to confirm expansion thresholds, looking at tables of their bullets recovered at different impact velocities from 3000fps down to 1500fps, and I saw a lot of mushroomed bullets at 1800fps, laying there on the tables.
That high BC for the 6.5 helps out on animals just as well as it does on wind drift for ringing steel. 200yds is about the furthest most people punch paper, with steel being preferred at 300and beyond.
Grendel lets you do both hunting and recreational target shooting with the same gun, using a 16" barrel. Notice I didn't include the many GS Customs, Woodleigh, and other custom pills for the 6.5? Regarding 6.5 Swede Velocities, they are traditionally quite tame, since the actions for the original 6.5x55 were built in the late 1800's.
If you jump up to Scandic 6.5x55 loads for modern actions, then you can push to .260 Rem velocities, but 6.5 Swede has actually operated at speeds very close to the Grendel, and taken everything from varmints to elephants at those moderate velocities.
The "only good for punching paper" memo didn't make it into the in-boxes of all the animals that have been taken with the Grendel, especially those at distance, like Mark LaRue's 405yd elk, or the Antelope spine-lung shot at 752yds with a 123gr AMAX target bullet.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Too bad most of those hunting bullets were made to open at 260 Rem and 6.5 swed velocities. Bill Waites himself posted the photo of a 120gr TSX recovered from a deer. The petals had barely opened enough to make them wider than the original bullet diameter so no wonder they penetrate well, they work like a FMJ on game which is not what an ethical hunter wants.
Now just this year Hornady is making the 123SST which was designed to open at Grendel velocities. The 100TTSX and 100 Nosler are 2 more that will open up at Grendel velocities.
If you keep that in mind there are a lot more 6.8 bullets that work properly for hunting than there are 6.5 bullets that can be USED in the Grendel/264LBC. It's a different story for target bullets, there are more 6.5 target bullets than 6.8 target bullets since they don't have to expand to kill paper.</div></div>
Would you agree that 1800fps is a common minimal expansion threshold for many hunting bullets? That takes us way beyond the capabilities of most hunters, with 350-400yds from the Grendel, and a bunch of hunting bullets that will do that from moderate, Grendel velocities:
85gr Sierra Varminter .225 BC
90gr Speer TNT .281 BC
95gr Hornady VMAX .365 BC
100gr Nosler Partition Flat-Base .326 BC
100gr Hornady SP .358 BC
100gr Nosler Ballistic Tip .350 BC
100gr Barnes TTSX .359 BC
120gr Barnes TSX .381 BC
120gr Remington Core-Lokt .323 BC
120gr Swift A-Frame .344 BC
120gr North Folk Soft Point Bonded Core
120gr Nosler Ballistic Tip .458 BC
120gr Speer Hot Cor .433 BC 1.09"
120gr Sierra Pro-Hunter .368 BC
120gr Barnes TTSX .443 BC
120gr Hornady GMX .450 BC
123gr Hornady SST .510 BC
125gr Nosler Partition .449 BC (1.17")
129gr Hornady SST .485 BC (1.30")
129gr Hornady Interbond .485 BC (1.25")
129gr Hornady Interlock Spire Point .445 BC (1.187")
129gr Nosler Accubond Long-Range .561 G1/.285 G7
130gr Sierra Game King HPBT .375 (1850-2400fps BC, .355 2400fps+)
130gr Nosler Accubond .488 BC (1.32")
130gr Berger Hunting VLD .552 G1/.282 G7 (1.389")
130gr Barnes TSX .365 BC (1.325")
130gr Swift Scirocco .571 BC (1.353")
We can push the 100gr pills at 2575-2700fps from a 16" barrel, 120's from 2400-2550fps, and 130's from 2275-2350fps. Those all will do at least 350, if not 400, and some 425yds for an 1800fps expansion. The 129gr Accubond-LR expands down to 1300fps, but does all that really matter when most hunters are taking medium game within 200yds?
I just stopped by almost every one of these manufacturers' booths at SHOT last week to confirm expansion thresholds, looking at tables of their bullets recovered at different impact velocities from 3000fps down to 1500fps, and I saw a lot of mushroomed bullets at 1800fps, laying there on the tables.
That high BC for the 6.5 helps out on animals just as well as it does on wind drift for ringing steel. 200yds is about the furthest most people punch paper, with steel being preferred at 300and beyond.
Grendel lets you do both hunting and recreational target shooting with the same gun, using a 16" barrel. Notice I didn't include the many GS Customs, Woodleigh, and other custom pills for the 6.5? Regarding 6.5 Swede Velocities, they are traditionally quite tame, since the actions for the original 6.5x55 were built in the late 1800's.
If you jump up to Scandic 6.5x55 loads for modern actions, then you can push to .260 Rem velocities, but 6.5 Swede has actually operated at speeds very close to the Grendel, and taken everything from varmints to elephants at those moderate velocities.
The "only good for punching paper" memo didn't make it into the in-boxes of all the animals that have been taken with the Grendel, especially those at distance, like Mark LaRue's 405yd elk, or the Antelope spine-lung shot at 752yds with a 123gr AMAX target bullet.
Re: 6.5 or 6.8?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LRRPF52</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Too bad most of those hunting bullets were made to open at 260 Rem and 6.5 swed velocities. Bill Waites himself posted the photo of a 120gr TSX recovered from a deer. The petals had barely opened enough to make them wider than the original bullet diameter so no wonder they penetrate well, they work like a FMJ on game which is not what an ethical hunter wants.
Now just this year Hornady is making the 123SST which was designed to open at Grendel velocities. The 100TTSX and 100 Nosler are 2 more that will open up at Grendel velocities.
If you keep that in mind there are a lot more 6.8 bullets that work properly for hunting than there are 6.5 bullets that can be USED in the Grendel/264LBC. It's a different story for target bullets, there are more 6.5 target bullets than 6.8 target bullets since they don't have to expand to kill paper.</div></div>
Would you agree that 1800fps is a common minimal expansion threshold for many hunting bullets? That takes us way beyond the capabilities of most hunters, with 350-400yds from the Grendel, and a bunch of hunting bullets that will do that from moderate, Grendel velocities:
85gr Sierra Varminter .225 BC
90gr Speer TNT .281 BC
95gr Hornady VMAX .365 BC
100gr Nosler Partition Flat-Base .326 BC
100gr Hornady SP .358 BC
100gr Nosler Ballistic Tip .350 BC
100gr Barnes TTSX .359 BC
120gr Barnes TSX .381 BC
120gr Remington Core-Lokt .323 BC
120gr Swift A-Frame .344 BC
120gr North Folk Soft Point Bonded Core
120gr Nosler Ballistic Tip .458 BC
120gr Speer Hot Cor .433 BC 1.09"
120gr Sierra Pro-Hunter .368 BC
120gr Barnes TTSX .443 BC
120gr Hornady GMX .450 BC
123gr Hornady SST .510 BC
125gr Nosler Partition .449 BC (1.17")
129gr Hornady SST .485 BC (1.30")
129gr Hornady Interbond .485 BC (1.25")
129gr Hornady Interlock Spire Point .445 BC (1.187")
129gr Nosler Accubond Long-Range .561 G1/.285 G7
130gr Sierra Game King HPBT .375 (1850-2400fps BC, .355 2400fps+)
130gr Nosler Accubond .488 BC (1.32")
130gr Berger Hunting VLD .552 G1/.282 G7 (1.389")
130gr Barnes TSX .365 BC (1.325")
130gr Swift Scirocco .571 BC (1.353")
We can push the 100gr pills at 2575-2700fps from a 16" barrel, 120's from 2400-2550fps, and 130's from 2275-2350fps. Those all will do at least 350, if not 400, and some 425yds for an 1800fps expansion. The 129gr Accubond-LR expands down to 1300fps, but does all that really matter when most hunters are taking medium game within 200yds?
I just stopped by almost every one of these manufacturers' booths at SHOT last week to confirm expansion thresholds, looking at tables of their bullets recovered at different impact velocities from 3000fps down to 1500fps, and I saw a lot of mushroomed bullets at 1800fps, laying there on the tables.
That high BC for the 6.5 helps out on animals just as well as it does on wind drift for ringing steel. 200yds is about the furthest most people punch paper, with steel being preferred at 300and beyond.
Grendel lets you do both hunting and recreational target shooting with the same gun, using a 16" barrel. Notice I didn't include the many GS Customs, Woodleigh, and other custom pills for the 6.5? Regarding 6.5 Swede Velocities, they are traditionally quite tame, since the actions for the original 6.5x55 were built in the late 1800's.
If you jump up to Scandic 6.5x55 loads for modern actions, then you can push to .260 Rem velocities, but 6.5 Swede has actually operated at speeds very close to the Grendel, and taken everything from varmints to elephants at those moderate velocities.
The "only good for punching paper" memo didn't make it into the in-boxes of all the animals that have been taken with the Grendel, especially those at distance, like Mark LaRue's 405yd elk, or the Antelope spine-lung shot at 752yds with a 123gr AMAX target bullet. </div></div>
Those velocities seem very optimistic from a 16" barrel, most load data I have seen barely even touches those velocities out of a 20" barrel, AA has the 120's going at just under 2400fps out of a 20" barrel and Hodgdon has them at 2500fps from a 20" barrel. It seems to me a more realistic velocity for the 6.5 grendel out of a 16" barrel is 2300-2350fps for the 120's, and 2200-2250 for the 130's. For comparison, handloads for the 6.8 SPC spec II, when loaded to 55K PSI, with the 120gr. SST 2500-2550fps is achievable, 2480fps is what I have seen with the 130gr. Berger classic hunter that has a BC of .497, and we already have SSA's factory 140gr. load at 2401, although its BC is a bit lower than the classic hunter's at .487. This to me sets them pretty even to each other as both hunting rounds and target rounds, both can reach to 1000yds with 16" barrels and still be supersonic, the 6.8 has a slight energy advantage within hunting ranges, but thats to be expected with its velocity advantage, both are pretty much limited to 400-450yds max for proper expansion. You can't really go wrong with either, although for both, you should be wary as to which bullet you use to hunt with, as those that aren't designed for these rounds may have an expansion velocity too high to be properly utilized.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LRRPF52</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Too bad most of those hunting bullets were made to open at 260 Rem and 6.5 swed velocities. Bill Waites himself posted the photo of a 120gr TSX recovered from a deer. The petals had barely opened enough to make them wider than the original bullet diameter so no wonder they penetrate well, they work like a FMJ on game which is not what an ethical hunter wants.
Now just this year Hornady is making the 123SST which was designed to open at Grendel velocities. The 100TTSX and 100 Nosler are 2 more that will open up at Grendel velocities.
If you keep that in mind there are a lot more 6.8 bullets that work properly for hunting than there are 6.5 bullets that can be USED in the Grendel/264LBC. It's a different story for target bullets, there are more 6.5 target bullets than 6.8 target bullets since they don't have to expand to kill paper.</div></div>
Would you agree that 1800fps is a common minimal expansion threshold for many hunting bullets? That takes us way beyond the capabilities of most hunters, with 350-400yds from the Grendel, and a bunch of hunting bullets that will do that from moderate, Grendel velocities:
85gr Sierra Varminter .225 BC
90gr Speer TNT .281 BC
95gr Hornady VMAX .365 BC
100gr Nosler Partition Flat-Base .326 BC
100gr Hornady SP .358 BC
100gr Nosler Ballistic Tip .350 BC
100gr Barnes TTSX .359 BC
120gr Barnes TSX .381 BC
120gr Remington Core-Lokt .323 BC
120gr Swift A-Frame .344 BC
120gr North Folk Soft Point Bonded Core
120gr Nosler Ballistic Tip .458 BC
120gr Speer Hot Cor .433 BC 1.09"
120gr Sierra Pro-Hunter .368 BC
120gr Barnes TTSX .443 BC
120gr Hornady GMX .450 BC
123gr Hornady SST .510 BC
125gr Nosler Partition .449 BC (1.17")
129gr Hornady SST .485 BC (1.30")
129gr Hornady Interbond .485 BC (1.25")
129gr Hornady Interlock Spire Point .445 BC (1.187")
129gr Nosler Accubond Long-Range .561 G1/.285 G7
130gr Sierra Game King HPBT .375 (1850-2400fps BC, .355 2400fps+)
130gr Nosler Accubond .488 BC (1.32")
130gr Berger Hunting VLD .552 G1/.282 G7 (1.389")
130gr Barnes TSX .365 BC (1.325")
130gr Swift Scirocco .571 BC (1.353")
We can push the 100gr pills at 2575-2700fps from a 16" barrel, 120's from 2400-2550fps, and 130's from 2275-2350fps. Those all will do at least 350, if not 400, and some 425yds for an 1800fps expansion. The 129gr Accubond-LR expands down to 1300fps, but does all that really matter when most hunters are taking medium game within 200yds?
I just stopped by almost every one of these manufacturers' booths at SHOT last week to confirm expansion thresholds, looking at tables of their bullets recovered at different impact velocities from 3000fps down to 1500fps, and I saw a lot of mushroomed bullets at 1800fps, laying there on the tables.
That high BC for the 6.5 helps out on animals just as well as it does on wind drift for ringing steel. 200yds is about the furthest most people punch paper, with steel being preferred at 300and beyond.
Grendel lets you do both hunting and recreational target shooting with the same gun, using a 16" barrel. Notice I didn't include the many GS Customs, Woodleigh, and other custom pills for the 6.5? Regarding 6.5 Swede Velocities, they are traditionally quite tame, since the actions for the original 6.5x55 were built in the late 1800's.
If you jump up to Scandic 6.5x55 loads for modern actions, then you can push to .260 Rem velocities, but 6.5 Swede has actually operated at speeds very close to the Grendel, and taken everything from varmints to elephants at those moderate velocities.
The "only good for punching paper" memo didn't make it into the in-boxes of all the animals that have been taken with the Grendel, especially those at distance, like Mark LaRue's 405yd elk, or the Antelope spine-lung shot at 752yds with a 123gr AMAX target bullet. </div></div>
Those velocities seem very optimistic from a 16" barrel, most load data I have seen barely even touches those velocities out of a 20" barrel, AA has the 120's going at just under 2400fps out of a 20" barrel and Hodgdon has them at 2500fps from a 20" barrel. It seems to me a more realistic velocity for the 6.5 grendel out of a 16" barrel is 2300-2350fps for the 120's, and 2200-2250 for the 130's. For comparison, handloads for the 6.8 SPC spec II, when loaded to 55K PSI, with the 120gr. SST 2500-2550fps is achievable, 2480fps is what I have seen with the 130gr. Berger classic hunter that has a BC of .497, and we already have SSA's factory 140gr. load at 2401, although its BC is a bit lower than the classic hunter's at .487. This to me sets them pretty even to each other as both hunting rounds and target rounds, both can reach to 1000yds with 16" barrels and still be supersonic, the 6.8 has a slight energy advantage within hunting ranges, but thats to be expected with its velocity advantage, both are pretty much limited to 400-450yds max for proper expansion. You can't really go wrong with either, although for both, you should be wary as to which bullet you use to hunt with, as those that aren't designed for these rounds may have an expansion velocity too high to be properly utilized.
Re: 6.5 or 6.8?
http://68forums.com/forums/showthread.php?35981-120gr-SST-from-24-inch-BHW-barrel.
Heres some good info on what the 6.8 is capable of out of a 24" AR, seems pretty impressive to me, and seems to match up pretty evenly with a 24" 6.5 Grendel.
http://68forums.com/forums/showthread.php?35981-120gr-SST-from-24-inch-BHW-barrel.
Heres some good info on what the 6.8 is capable of out of a 24" AR, seems pretty impressive to me, and seems to match up pretty evenly with a 24" 6.5 Grendel.
Re: 6.5 or 6.8?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Nukes</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Are these feral ones tasty? Or an.... "acquired taste"?
</div></div>
Those are grill hogs. Perfect for a Weber.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Nukes</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Are these feral ones tasty? Or an.... "acquired taste"?
Those are grill hogs. Perfect for a Weber.
Re: 6.5 or 6.8?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LRRPF52</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Too bad most of those hunting bullets were made to open at 260 Rem and 6.5 swed velocities. Bill Waites himself posted the photo of a 120gr TSX recovered from a deer. The petals had barely opened enough to make them wider than the original bullet diameter so no wonder they penetrate well, they work like a FMJ on game which is not what an ethical hunter wants.
Now just this year Hornady is making the 123SST which was designed to open at Grendel velocities. The 100TTSX and 100 Nosler are 2 more that will open up at Grendel velocities.
If you keep that in mind there are a lot more 6.8 bullets that work properly for hunting than there are 6.5 bullets that can be USED in the Grendel/264LBC. It's a different story for target bullets, there are more 6.5 target bullets than 6.8 target bullets since they don't have to expand to kill paper.</div></div>
Would you agree that 1800fps is a common minimal expansion threshold for many hunting bullets? That takes us way beyond the capabilities of most hunters, with 350-400yds from the Grendel, and a bunch of hunting bullets that will do that from moderate, Grendel velocities:
85gr Sierra Varminter .225 BC
90gr Speer TNT .281 BC
95gr Hornady VMAX .365 BC
100gr Nosler Partition Flat-Base .326 BC
100gr Hornady SP .358 BC
100gr Nosler Ballistic Tip .350 BC
100gr Barnes TTSX .359 BC
120gr Barnes TSX .381 BC
120gr Remington Core-Lokt .323 BC
120gr Swift A-Frame .344 BC
120gr North Folk Soft Point Bonded Core
120gr Nosler Ballistic Tip .458 BC
120gr Speer Hot Cor .433 BC 1.09"
120gr Sierra Pro-Hunter .368 BC
120gr Barnes TTSX .443 BC
120gr Hornady GMX .450 BC
123gr Hornady SST .510 BC
125gr Nosler Partition .449 BC (1.17")
129gr Hornady SST .485 BC (1.30")
129gr Hornady Interbond .485 BC (1.25")
129gr Hornady Interlock Spire Point .445 BC (1.187")
129gr Nosler Accubond Long-Range .561 G1/.285 G7
130gr Sierra Game King HPBT .375 (1850-2400fps BC, .355 2400fps+)
130gr Nosler Accubond .488 BC (1.32")
130gr Berger Hunting VLD .552 G1/.282 G7 (1.389")
130gr Barnes TSX .365 BC (1.325")
130gr Swift Scirocco .571 BC (1.353")
We can push the 100gr pills at 2575-2700fps from a 16" barrel, 120's from 2400-2550fps, and 130's from 2275-2350fps. Those all will do at least 350, if not 400, and some 425yds for an 1800fps expansion. The 129gr Accubond-LR expands down to 1300fps, but does all that really matter when most hunters are taking medium game within 200yds?
I just stopped by almost every one of these manufacturers' booths at SHOT last week to confirm expansion thresholds, looking at tables of their bullets recovered at different impact velocities from 3000fps down to 1500fps, and I saw a lot of mushroomed bullets at 1800fps, laying there on the tables.
That high BC for the 6.5 helps out on animals just as well as it does on wind drift for ringing steel. 200yds is about the furthest most people punch paper, with steel being preferred at 300and beyond.
Grendel lets you do both hunting and recreational target shooting with the same gun, using a 16" barrel. Notice I didn't include the many GS Customs, Woodleigh, and other custom pills for the 6.5? Regarding 6.5 Swede Velocities, they are traditionally quite tame, since the actions for the original 6.5x55 were built in the late 1800's.
If you jump up to Scandic 6.5x55 loads for modern actions, then you can push to .260 Rem velocities, but 6.5 Swede has actually operated at speeds very close to the Grendel, and taken everything from varmints to elephants at those moderate velocities.
The "only good for punching paper" memo didn't make it into the in-boxes of all the animals that have been taken with the Grendel, especially those at distance, like Mark LaRue's 405yd elk, or the Antelope spine-lung shot at 752yds with a 123gr AMAX target bullet. </div></div>
1800? yes minimal.
The Amax is a thin skinned target bullet noted by Hornady to be explosive and not recommended on game animals. The G pushes it just fast enough for it to expand like a hunting bullet. Anyone can shoot animals with what ever they want, I will continue to use bullets that expand to .5 or double their dia. at the ranges I hunt at. Years ago I shot a Mulie at over 500 yds with a 180gr Nosler out of a 300 Win Mag. The deer died about 400yds from where i shot him. The bullet did not expand it acted like a fmj when it went through the bottom of both lungs. The deer took a step just about the time I squeezed off so by the time the bullet reached the deer it was back from where i aimed. Shit happens in the woods but I would rather go a little over board than under and take a chance on losing a buck with a 33"+ spread.
Do you know what it feels like when you see the biggest 8x8 bull you've ever seen in your life and you have a bow in your hand and the bull is at 60 yards walking away? I'm not saying this about the Grendel because I think it is a good round with the right bullets but you can use a 22LR to kill a good sized bear but would you actually go into the woods hunting a trophy black bear with a 22LR? All I am saying is use the right tool for the job. Caliber, rifle whatever.
edited- I don't think the 6.8 should be used with heavier bullets either or shot at game animals over 400yds. I did take a 5x5 meat elk for a friend at 370 yds using a 110gr Accubond leaving a 20" barrel at 2850. I didn't go in after elk but I had a tag and he wanted the meat and it was a perfect opportunity for a shot. I try to make the right decisions when it comes to being an ethical hunter so I don't lose game for no reason.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LRRPF52</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Too bad most of those hunting bullets were made to open at 260 Rem and 6.5 swed velocities. Bill Waites himself posted the photo of a 120gr TSX recovered from a deer. The petals had barely opened enough to make them wider than the original bullet diameter so no wonder they penetrate well, they work like a FMJ on game which is not what an ethical hunter wants.
Now just this year Hornady is making the 123SST which was designed to open at Grendel velocities. The 100TTSX and 100 Nosler are 2 more that will open up at Grendel velocities.
If you keep that in mind there are a lot more 6.8 bullets that work properly for hunting than there are 6.5 bullets that can be USED in the Grendel/264LBC. It's a different story for target bullets, there are more 6.5 target bullets than 6.8 target bullets since they don't have to expand to kill paper.</div></div>
Would you agree that 1800fps is a common minimal expansion threshold for many hunting bullets? That takes us way beyond the capabilities of most hunters, with 350-400yds from the Grendel, and a bunch of hunting bullets that will do that from moderate, Grendel velocities:
85gr Sierra Varminter .225 BC
90gr Speer TNT .281 BC
95gr Hornady VMAX .365 BC
100gr Nosler Partition Flat-Base .326 BC
100gr Hornady SP .358 BC
100gr Nosler Ballistic Tip .350 BC
100gr Barnes TTSX .359 BC
120gr Barnes TSX .381 BC
120gr Remington Core-Lokt .323 BC
120gr Swift A-Frame .344 BC
120gr North Folk Soft Point Bonded Core
120gr Nosler Ballistic Tip .458 BC
120gr Speer Hot Cor .433 BC 1.09"
120gr Sierra Pro-Hunter .368 BC
120gr Barnes TTSX .443 BC
120gr Hornady GMX .450 BC
123gr Hornady SST .510 BC
125gr Nosler Partition .449 BC (1.17")
129gr Hornady SST .485 BC (1.30")
129gr Hornady Interbond .485 BC (1.25")
129gr Hornady Interlock Spire Point .445 BC (1.187")
129gr Nosler Accubond Long-Range .561 G1/.285 G7
130gr Sierra Game King HPBT .375 (1850-2400fps BC, .355 2400fps+)
130gr Nosler Accubond .488 BC (1.32")
130gr Berger Hunting VLD .552 G1/.282 G7 (1.389")
130gr Barnes TSX .365 BC (1.325")
130gr Swift Scirocco .571 BC (1.353")
We can push the 100gr pills at 2575-2700fps from a 16" barrel, 120's from 2400-2550fps, and 130's from 2275-2350fps. Those all will do at least 350, if not 400, and some 425yds for an 1800fps expansion. The 129gr Accubond-LR expands down to 1300fps, but does all that really matter when most hunters are taking medium game within 200yds?
I just stopped by almost every one of these manufacturers' booths at SHOT last week to confirm expansion thresholds, looking at tables of their bullets recovered at different impact velocities from 3000fps down to 1500fps, and I saw a lot of mushroomed bullets at 1800fps, laying there on the tables.
That high BC for the 6.5 helps out on animals just as well as it does on wind drift for ringing steel. 200yds is about the furthest most people punch paper, with steel being preferred at 300and beyond.
Grendel lets you do both hunting and recreational target shooting with the same gun, using a 16" barrel. Notice I didn't include the many GS Customs, Woodleigh, and other custom pills for the 6.5? Regarding 6.5 Swede Velocities, they are traditionally quite tame, since the actions for the original 6.5x55 were built in the late 1800's.
If you jump up to Scandic 6.5x55 loads for modern actions, then you can push to .260 Rem velocities, but 6.5 Swede has actually operated at speeds very close to the Grendel, and taken everything from varmints to elephants at those moderate velocities.
The "only good for punching paper" memo didn't make it into the in-boxes of all the animals that have been taken with the Grendel, especially those at distance, like Mark LaRue's 405yd elk, or the Antelope spine-lung shot at 752yds with a 123gr AMAX target bullet. </div></div>
1800? yes minimal.
The Amax is a thin skinned target bullet noted by Hornady to be explosive and not recommended on game animals. The G pushes it just fast enough for it to expand like a hunting bullet. Anyone can shoot animals with what ever they want, I will continue to use bullets that expand to .5 or double their dia. at the ranges I hunt at. Years ago I shot a Mulie at over 500 yds with a 180gr Nosler out of a 300 Win Mag. The deer died about 400yds from where i shot him. The bullet did not expand it acted like a fmj when it went through the bottom of both lungs. The deer took a step just about the time I squeezed off so by the time the bullet reached the deer it was back from where i aimed. Shit happens in the woods but I would rather go a little over board than under and take a chance on losing a buck with a 33"+ spread.
Do you know what it feels like when you see the biggest 8x8 bull you've ever seen in your life and you have a bow in your hand and the bull is at 60 yards walking away? I'm not saying this about the Grendel because I think it is a good round with the right bullets but you can use a 22LR to kill a good sized bear but would you actually go into the woods hunting a trophy black bear with a 22LR? All I am saying is use the right tool for the job. Caliber, rifle whatever.
edited- I don't think the 6.8 should be used with heavier bullets either or shot at game animals over 400yds. I did take a 5x5 meat elk for a friend at 370 yds using a 110gr Accubond leaving a 20" barrel at 2850. I didn't go in after elk but I had a tag and he wanted the meat and it was a perfect opportunity for a shot. I try to make the right decisions when it comes to being an ethical hunter so I don't lose game for no reason.
Re: 6.5 or 6.8?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Those velocities seem very optimistic from a 16" barrel, most load data I have seen barely even touches those velocities out of a 20" barrel, AA has the 120's going at just under 2400fps out of a 20" barrel and Hodgdon has them at 2500fps from a 20" barrel. It seems to me a more realistic velocity for the 6.5 grendel out of a 16" barrel is 2300-2350fps for the 120's, and 2200-2250 for the 130's. For comparison, handloads for the 6.8 SPC spec II, when loaded to 55K PSI, with the 120gr. SST 2500-2550fps is achievable, 2480fps is what I have seen with the 130gr. Berger classic hunter that has a BC of .497, and we already have SSA's factory 140gr. load at 2401, although its BC is a bit lower than the classic hunter's at .487. This to me sets them pretty even to each other as both hunting rounds and target rounds, both can reach to 1000yds with 16" barrels and still be supersonic, the 6.8 has a slight energy advantage within hunting ranges, but thats to be expected with its velocity advantage, both are pretty much limited to 400-450yds max for proper expansion.</div></div>
I get 2650-2700fps out of my 16" using TAC and the 100gr NBT, and 2537fps with the 120gr SMK. Factory Precision Firearms 123gr Scenar runs 2450fps for me, with 7fps ES at .79 MOA.
The Hornady "16" data is really a 14.5" pinned, like I mentioned before. Hornady's new 9th edition has Grendel data from an 18" barrel, with the 123gr pills running 2500fps on top of Hodgdon's CFE223, which has been one of the most surprising powders for the Grendel. 16" and 18" Grendel data are virtually identical for some reason, as there doesn't seem to be a significant enough variance to separate the two. 20" and 24" are about the same as well, with 10-50fps difference being common, all other factors equal.
At common hunting distances of 50-200yds, we're well over 1800fps impact velocity, whether using standard cup & core, or premium bullets, and we can train with the carbine on the cheap with Wolf Gold for under $13/box.
I just finished co-authoring the first 6.5 Grendel Reloading Handbook, with manufacturer-supplied data from AA, Lapua/Vihtavuori, Accurate, Hodgon's, & Western Powders.
6.5 Grendel Reloading Handbook Announced
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Those velocities seem very optimistic from a 16" barrel, most load data I have seen barely even touches those velocities out of a 20" barrel, AA has the 120's going at just under 2400fps out of a 20" barrel and Hodgdon has them at 2500fps from a 20" barrel. It seems to me a more realistic velocity for the 6.5 grendel out of a 16" barrel is 2300-2350fps for the 120's, and 2200-2250 for the 130's. For comparison, handloads for the 6.8 SPC spec II, when loaded to 55K PSI, with the 120gr. SST 2500-2550fps is achievable, 2480fps is what I have seen with the 130gr. Berger classic hunter that has a BC of .497, and we already have SSA's factory 140gr. load at 2401, although its BC is a bit lower than the classic hunter's at .487. This to me sets them pretty even to each other as both hunting rounds and target rounds, both can reach to 1000yds with 16" barrels and still be supersonic, the 6.8 has a slight energy advantage within hunting ranges, but thats to be expected with its velocity advantage, both are pretty much limited to 400-450yds max for proper expansion.</div></div>
I get 2650-2700fps out of my 16" using TAC and the 100gr NBT, and 2537fps with the 120gr SMK. Factory Precision Firearms 123gr Scenar runs 2450fps for me, with 7fps ES at .79 MOA.
The Hornady "16" data is really a 14.5" pinned, like I mentioned before. Hornady's new 9th edition has Grendel data from an 18" barrel, with the 123gr pills running 2500fps on top of Hodgdon's CFE223, which has been one of the most surprising powders for the Grendel. 16" and 18" Grendel data are virtually identical for some reason, as there doesn't seem to be a significant enough variance to separate the two. 20" and 24" are about the same as well, with 10-50fps difference being common, all other factors equal.
At common hunting distances of 50-200yds, we're well over 1800fps impact velocity, whether using standard cup & core, or premium bullets, and we can train with the carbine on the cheap with Wolf Gold for under $13/box.
I just finished co-authoring the first 6.5 Grendel Reloading Handbook, with manufacturer-supplied data from AA, Lapua/Vihtavuori, Accurate, Hodgon's, & Western Powders.
6.5 Grendel Reloading Handbook Announced
Re: 6.5 or 6.8?
My dad and brothers are farmers and that puts pigs into the enemy number one position. We always try to kill as many as possible whenever we can. Dad has a 6.5 Grendel and has good luck using 123 amax's. we've all shot pigs with the 223 but it can be hard to stop a big one. I've had a 300 blk for about six months and really like it. Very similar performance to the 7.62x39 round but better bullet selection. The best thing is the low recoil and muzzle blast = super fast follow up shots. This is important if you want to drop more than one hog. Since suppressor a aren't an option (too bad bro) the 300 would look even better to me. If you really won't to shot em out to 400 yards better go with a Grendel though (an AR10 would be much better though). But if you really want to make a 200 plus pounder die right now, shoot him with a 460 bushmaster!
My dad and brothers are farmers and that puts pigs into the enemy number one position. We always try to kill as many as possible whenever we can. Dad has a 6.5 Grendel and has good luck using 123 amax's. we've all shot pigs with the 223 but it can be hard to stop a big one. I've had a 300 blk for about six months and really like it. Very similar performance to the 7.62x39 round but better bullet selection. The best thing is the low recoil and muzzle blast = super fast follow up shots. This is important if you want to drop more than one hog. Since suppressor a aren't an option (too bad bro) the 300 would look even better to me. If you really won't to shot em out to 400 yards better go with a Grendel though (an AR10 would be much better though). But if you really want to make a 200 plus pounder die right now, shoot him with a 460 bushmaster!
Re: 6.5 or 6.8?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: yknot</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Personally I think for Hogs and 400 yards or less the best bet would be a 300 AAC or Blackout.
I have many guns in the Ar platform and among them I have a 6.5 Grendel, 6.8 SPC, 300 AAC, 556, 7.62x39R and 7.62x51 Nato.
First the 6.5 gendel. I love this caliber! Right now I only have the one rifle, but I have 2 on order. The first build was a 24" SS Fluted barrel, aluminum tube W/bipod on a Magpul PRS. This set-up was for longer ranges, and is still sonic to 1200M. I would,'t use this caliber like I have for hunting. It is extremely accurate, very flat, but not a hunting round. Yes, I would not want to be shot by it, just I think for clean kills you may want more energy/weight.
The 6.8SPC, I have 4 in this caliber. It's a very good 600M and less gun. I do have one with a 24" SS barrel, and set-up like my Grenndel, exactly. I wouldn't really waste the money on another long barrel for this. I like it much better with a 20' to 16" barrel. more portable and very hard hitter. I think this is a great all around rifle, and the one I would grab first if trouble arose.
7.62x39 Truthfully, I like this caliber better on a AK style rife. I have a SKS and AK47 in this caliber and enjoy shooting much better then on a AR platform. Great round for 400M and less, veryhard hitter and feed better in a AK.
7.62x51 Heavy....We have three in this caliber, all AR-10's. Very heavy, we have a 24" 20' and 18" all DPMS and all work very well. The most accurate is the 24" barrel, but it also has the best trigger, stock and scope. I don't have nayhting negative to say about the 308W, its just heavy to carry, but is good for 1000-1100M with the right bullet. 308 is the best all around gun is a bolt action rifle, or I think so. I like it Ar form because it looks nice, recoil is less and is very accurate, just HEAVY
300AAC I just got this rifle a few months ago, and have only put about 40 rounds thruy it. I did not do any accuracy testing, but I think it more or less a 400M orless caliber. The round has mass, which is great, but lacks powder capacity which is the limiting factor. I haven't tried it with a suppressor, but I think that is where it may shine, as a close quarter rifle. You get alot of punch with a very little rifle. Who know's after some more time, it may become my go to rifle??
5.56 Wow, the caliber that started it all...I have always like this round, it is light, accurate and easy to reload. The quality of amunition is one area that has evolved a lot in the last 6 years. His has taken the 5.56 to new levels, and you can not go wrong with this caliber. Cheap to shot, no recoil, accurate, light and list goes on. Probally everyones first AR was a 5.56.
There is really only one more caliber i have not gotten, but want and that would be the 50 Beaowolf from Alaxander Arms. We have a 6.5 grendel from AA and they realy make nice equipment. One day I guess, if the market ever slows down. I must say, with rifles selling out so much, I have really added to my Pistol collection....7 of the last 10 gun purchases were pistols. I love the 1911, and hope to get one in 38 super, YES. </div></div>
This. Right the fuck here.
Keep your .38 Super, but what you say re; the 5.56 is the truth. I have a friend that builds 1911's starting around $5000, everything else is spot on. I have killed 400+ lbs hogs with a .223 to the head. they never moved. A light, .223 is potent medicine if you do your part: i.e. shoot those MF's in the the head, it's big enough.
yknot, please tell me me about your 6.5 Grendel, it makes my pee pee hard. 200-300 pigs would be easy with it. Your choice?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: yknot</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Personally I think for Hogs and 400 yards or less the best bet would be a 300 AAC or Blackout.
I have many guns in the Ar platform and among them I have a 6.5 Grendel, 6.8 SPC, 300 AAC, 556, 7.62x39R and 7.62x51 Nato.
First the 6.5 gendel. I love this caliber! Right now I only have the one rifle, but I have 2 on order. The first build was a 24" SS Fluted barrel, aluminum tube W/bipod on a Magpul PRS. This set-up was for longer ranges, and is still sonic to 1200M. I would,'t use this caliber like I have for hunting. It is extremely accurate, very flat, but not a hunting round. Yes, I would not want to be shot by it, just I think for clean kills you may want more energy/weight.
The 6.8SPC, I have 4 in this caliber. It's a very good 600M and less gun. I do have one with a 24" SS barrel, and set-up like my Grenndel, exactly. I wouldn't really waste the money on another long barrel for this. I like it much better with a 20' to 16" barrel. more portable and very hard hitter. I think this is a great all around rifle, and the one I would grab first if trouble arose.
7.62x39 Truthfully, I like this caliber better on a AK style rife. I have a SKS and AK47 in this caliber and enjoy shooting much better then on a AR platform. Great round for 400M and less, veryhard hitter and feed better in a AK.
7.62x51 Heavy....We have three in this caliber, all AR-10's. Very heavy, we have a 24" 20' and 18" all DPMS and all work very well. The most accurate is the 24" barrel, but it also has the best trigger, stock and scope. I don't have nayhting negative to say about the 308W, its just heavy to carry, but is good for 1000-1100M with the right bullet. 308 is the best all around gun is a bolt action rifle, or I think so. I like it Ar form because it looks nice, recoil is less and is very accurate, just HEAVY
300AAC I just got this rifle a few months ago, and have only put about 40 rounds thruy it. I did not do any accuracy testing, but I think it more or less a 400M orless caliber. The round has mass, which is great, but lacks powder capacity which is the limiting factor. I haven't tried it with a suppressor, but I think that is where it may shine, as a close quarter rifle. You get alot of punch with a very little rifle. Who know's after some more time, it may become my go to rifle??
5.56 Wow, the caliber that started it all...I have always like this round, it is light, accurate and easy to reload. The quality of amunition is one area that has evolved a lot in the last 6 years. His has taken the 5.56 to new levels, and you can not go wrong with this caliber. Cheap to shot, no recoil, accurate, light and list goes on. Probally everyones first AR was a 5.56.
There is really only one more caliber i have not gotten, but want and that would be the 50 Beaowolf from Alaxander Arms. We have a 6.5 grendel from AA and they realy make nice equipment. One day I guess, if the market ever slows down. I must say, with rifles selling out so much, I have really added to my Pistol collection....7 of the last 10 gun purchases were pistols. I love the 1911, and hope to get one in 38 super, YES. </div></div>
This. Right the fuck here.
Keep your .38 Super, but what you say re; the 5.56 is the truth. I have a friend that builds 1911's starting around $5000, everything else is spot on. I have killed 400+ lbs hogs with a .223 to the head. they never moved. A light, .223 is potent medicine if you do your part: i.e. shoot those MF's in the the head, it's big enough.
yknot, please tell me me about your 6.5 Grendel, it makes my pee pee hard. 200-300 pigs would be easy with it. Your choice?
Re: 6.5 or 6.8?
Another great set of hunting bullets for the Grendel are the 100gr and 125gr Nosler Partitions.
You can run the 100gr Nosler Partition at anywhere from 2550-2650fps from a 16" barrel.
With a 20", you can get over 2744fps with H335, at 49,700psi in the chamber according to the Hodgdon's data I'm looking at here in the new 6.5 Grendel Reloading Handbook.
You can run the 125gr Nosler Partition at 2400-2500fps from a 16", and get up to 2650fps with a 20".
Another great set of hunting bullets for the Grendel are the 100gr and 125gr Nosler Partitions.
You can run the 100gr Nosler Partition at anywhere from 2550-2650fps from a 16" barrel.
With a 20", you can get over 2744fps with H335, at 49,700psi in the chamber according to the Hodgdon's data I'm looking at here in the new 6.5 Grendel Reloading Handbook.
You can run the 125gr Nosler Partition at 2400-2500fps from a 16", and get up to 2650fps with a 20".
Re: 6.5 or 6.8?
I hope this information is helping others out as much as it is helping me. Thank you all for your input to my question.
I hope this information is helping others out as much as it is helping me. Thank you all for your input to my question.
Re: 6.5 or 6.8?
In my part of the world we get some good size deer. I have been lucky the past few with my grendle and taken 3 deer all over 300lbs. First up was only about a 40 yard shot with 123 AMAX. Shot was a dbbl lung and the deer made about two bounds and went down. both entry and exit were much smaller than I like to see but the lungs were jelly.
Next up was a real slob. Not sure what he went on the hoof but gutted he went 319lbs. I didnt really like the AMAX so I went with a 125gr Nosler Partition. Shot was a bit over 100 yards lung/heart shot. Deer went about 20 yards and all over with. The exit was not huge but more than I would have needed to put down a good trail. The heart and lungs were in bad shape no way that deer was going far.
The third was about 20 feet and I shot through the lungs and out the far side shoulder. The nosler made it all the way leaving a big exit and the deer droped in it's tracks.
I also used a 300blk this year on a medium doe. I was standing on a trail as the farm next door was doing a drive. The deer ran down the trail right at me. I put my dot right on her chest and let it rip when she was about 10 feet from me and about to run my ass over. I hit her dead center in the brisket. The bullet yawed and came out just behind her left shoulder. She went down but got back up running so I put my next one through her lungs and into the farside shoulder. I should note I was shooting a Nosler Partition but forget what grn.
In my part of the world we get some good size deer. I have been lucky the past few with my grendle and taken 3 deer all over 300lbs. First up was only about a 40 yard shot with 123 AMAX. Shot was a dbbl lung and the deer made about two bounds and went down. both entry and exit were much smaller than I like to see but the lungs were jelly.
Next up was a real slob. Not sure what he went on the hoof but gutted he went 319lbs. I didnt really like the AMAX so I went with a 125gr Nosler Partition. Shot was a bit over 100 yards lung/heart shot. Deer went about 20 yards and all over with. The exit was not huge but more than I would have needed to put down a good trail. The heart and lungs were in bad shape no way that deer was going far.
The third was about 20 feet and I shot through the lungs and out the far side shoulder. The nosler made it all the way leaving a big exit and the deer droped in it's tracks.
I also used a 300blk this year on a medium doe. I was standing on a trail as the farm next door was doing a drive. The deer ran down the trail right at me. I put my dot right on her chest and let it rip when she was about 10 feet from me and about to run my ass over. I hit her dead center in the brisket. The bullet yawed and came out just behind her left shoulder. She went down but got back up running so I put my next one through her lungs and into the farside shoulder. I should note I was shooting a Nosler Partition but forget what grn.
Re: 6.5 or 6.8?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Hooper</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Nukes</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Are these feral ones tasty? Or an.... "acquired taste"?
</div></div>
Those are grill hogs. Perfect for a Weber. </div></div>
Perhaps I should give 'em a try.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Hooper</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Nukes</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Are these feral ones tasty? Or an.... "acquired taste"?
Those are grill hogs. Perfect for a Weber. </div></div>
Perhaps I should give 'em a try.
Re: 6.5 or 6.8?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Strykervet</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The 6.5 will have more energy transfer at longer ranges vs. any other round with a similar weight. It has the highest BC of any round you can run through an AR. 6.8 was designed to have more knockdown power within the average range of the M4 --which is considered to be 300m.
The 6.5, and I graphed this myself against data I found and had from many different barrel lengths and loads, will retain more energy per grain than 7.62 with similar barrel lengths and "average" bullet weights, so 120gr. for 6.5 and 155-168 or so for 7.62. 7.62 starts out faster with more energy, but that changes. At about 600m, the 7.62 slows down to the point that it and the 6.5 are sort of equal in velocity (though 6.5 started out slower) and by 1000m, the 6.5 will generally be travelling faster than the 7.62 will. Also, as you can probably guess from the above, the drop is less severe in the 6.5 too.
For all practical purposes, the 6.5 does everything the 7.62 does at long range, but in a lighter package with a slightly smaller bullet. It is more accurate. At close range, it is significantly more powerful than 5.56, but not nearly as powerful as 7.62 up close.
For your ranges, yeah, I'd say you could use either of your rifles you have now. But I have a 6.5G and it is my favorite of all my rifles. .33MOA (mine best with handload 100gr. Hornady AMAX for some reason) good to 1000m (with a heavier bullet) light AR platform. It could very easily be a "do it all" rifle, deer, hogs, coyote, target, competition, 3-gun, defense, whatever. Energy transfer? It hits plates as hard or harder at 200m than the .300BLK firing 125gr. loads, similar to 7.62x39. Both hit much harder than 5.56 and will swing the hell out of a 12" plate on chains with one shot.
6.8, and I don't own one but I did look a lot into it, just didn't cut the mustard for an accurate weapon to 600m, much less 1000. It has a relatively poor BC, and that translates into significant loss of energy over distance, and a greater, accelerating drop at longer ranges. Basically, the 6.5 can do everything 6.8 can and more. It also has greater range in bullet weight than 6.8. At close range, they both do about the same thing when firing the same bullet weight. Oh, and 6.5 bullets are more common, they are used in other calibers, so for handloading that is a plus.
Now I mentioned .300BLK, you look into that? To 300m, it does great, much better than I had anticipated. Like I said, the 125gr. load is nearly equivalent to the x39. But unlike the x39, .300BLK probably has the greatest bullet weight range of any AR loading. It will essentially use every .30 bullet from around 100 grains to 220 grains, and some handle 240's okay too. With the 220's, it is very, very quiet. No ear pro at all needed, you can clap your hands louder. Now if you had that, you'd be able to put a suppressor on it and choose between subs or supers. For hunting hogs, you may want to keep with the supers, likely 125's, but you can also use the middle weight bullets, like the 147 to 155. The .300 I have shoots about 1MOA with good ammo (I haven't loaded any yet) and it outperformed my expectations in every way.
In a nutshell, if you want long range capability in an AR platform with laser beam performance at close range, the 6.5 is it (I honestly think it is the caliber that maxes out what the AR platform is capable of). If you only want 300m performance and good knockdown power (and the ability to suppress subsonic loads and supersonic loads along with all the various bullet types it can handle) then .300BLK is it.
Oh, and not sure about 6.8, but .300BLK and 6.5G both function well with short barrels, they don't lose a whole lot of energy like say, the 5.56.
Finally, I understand the ultimate hog gun is the .50Beowulf, but you have to get within 200m of them with lighter bullets, 100 or so with heavier ones. It knocks them down like a thunderbolt. At and after 200m with 334gr. bullets, they start to drop like a rock. I have one of these as well, and it is definitely a blast! But very limited in what you can do with it.
Hope that helps, I'm an AR nut and I love the high performance, relatively obscure cartridges.</div></div>
What he said... I am of the same opinion go with 6.5, I did. But I definitely did not do THAT much research on it. I am told by a few guys shooting the 6.8 that they are accurate and can kill out past 400 yds and those guys told me that after 400/500 is where you get the difference of the 6.5. Mine is on order, about a month out... so all I can offer you is second hand hear say.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Strykervet</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The 6.5 will have more energy transfer at longer ranges vs. any other round with a similar weight. It has the highest BC of any round you can run through an AR. 6.8 was designed to have more knockdown power within the average range of the M4 --which is considered to be 300m.
The 6.5, and I graphed this myself against data I found and had from many different barrel lengths and loads, will retain more energy per grain than 7.62 with similar barrel lengths and "average" bullet weights, so 120gr. for 6.5 and 155-168 or so for 7.62. 7.62 starts out faster with more energy, but that changes. At about 600m, the 7.62 slows down to the point that it and the 6.5 are sort of equal in velocity (though 6.5 started out slower) and by 1000m, the 6.5 will generally be travelling faster than the 7.62 will. Also, as you can probably guess from the above, the drop is less severe in the 6.5 too.
For all practical purposes, the 6.5 does everything the 7.62 does at long range, but in a lighter package with a slightly smaller bullet. It is more accurate. At close range, it is significantly more powerful than 5.56, but not nearly as powerful as 7.62 up close.
For your ranges, yeah, I'd say you could use either of your rifles you have now. But I have a 6.5G and it is my favorite of all my rifles. .33MOA (mine best with handload 100gr. Hornady AMAX for some reason) good to 1000m (with a heavier bullet) light AR platform. It could very easily be a "do it all" rifle, deer, hogs, coyote, target, competition, 3-gun, defense, whatever. Energy transfer? It hits plates as hard or harder at 200m than the .300BLK firing 125gr. loads, similar to 7.62x39. Both hit much harder than 5.56 and will swing the hell out of a 12" plate on chains with one shot.
6.8, and I don't own one but I did look a lot into it, just didn't cut the mustard for an accurate weapon to 600m, much less 1000. It has a relatively poor BC, and that translates into significant loss of energy over distance, and a greater, accelerating drop at longer ranges. Basically, the 6.5 can do everything 6.8 can and more. It also has greater range in bullet weight than 6.8. At close range, they both do about the same thing when firing the same bullet weight. Oh, and 6.5 bullets are more common, they are used in other calibers, so for handloading that is a plus.
Now I mentioned .300BLK, you look into that? To 300m, it does great, much better than I had anticipated. Like I said, the 125gr. load is nearly equivalent to the x39. But unlike the x39, .300BLK probably has the greatest bullet weight range of any AR loading. It will essentially use every .30 bullet from around 100 grains to 220 grains, and some handle 240's okay too. With the 220's, it is very, very quiet. No ear pro at all needed, you can clap your hands louder. Now if you had that, you'd be able to put a suppressor on it and choose between subs or supers. For hunting hogs, you may want to keep with the supers, likely 125's, but you can also use the middle weight bullets, like the 147 to 155. The .300 I have shoots about 1MOA with good ammo (I haven't loaded any yet) and it outperformed my expectations in every way.
In a nutshell, if you want long range capability in an AR platform with laser beam performance at close range, the 6.5 is it (I honestly think it is the caliber that maxes out what the AR platform is capable of). If you only want 300m performance and good knockdown power (and the ability to suppress subsonic loads and supersonic loads along with all the various bullet types it can handle) then .300BLK is it.
Oh, and not sure about 6.8, but .300BLK and 6.5G both function well with short barrels, they don't lose a whole lot of energy like say, the 5.56.
Finally, I understand the ultimate hog gun is the .50Beowulf, but you have to get within 200m of them with lighter bullets, 100 or so with heavier ones. It knocks them down like a thunderbolt. At and after 200m with 334gr. bullets, they start to drop like a rock. I have one of these as well, and it is definitely a blast! But very limited in what you can do with it.
Hope that helps, I'm an AR nut and I love the high performance, relatively obscure cartridges.</div></div>
What he said... I am of the same opinion go with 6.5, I did. But I definitely did not do THAT much research on it. I am told by a few guys shooting the 6.8 that they are accurate and can kill out past 400 yds and those guys told me that after 400/500 is where you get the difference of the 6.5. Mine is on order, about a month out... so all I can offer you is second hand hear say.
Re: 6.5 or 6.8?
Some people have voiced concerns here about the Grendel not being able to generate enough velocity to get Barnes TSX or TTSX bullets to fully expand on game.
A guy just posted the results of his axis deer, blackbuck, and meat hog hunt this past week, using the AA-loaded factory 120gr TSX. Results:
4 Axis does
one old Blackbuck ram
one meat hog which weighed approximately 80 lbs
4 of the critters were DRT, other 2 piled up within 30yds.
Shots ranged from 100 to 230yds.
Exit holes were nickel-sized.
One shot DRT'd 2 does, with the farside doe not seen at the time until they saw them both drop. The TSX went through and through both does, passing through the neck of the first, through the entire chest cavity of the second, destroying the off-side shoulder before exiting. That 2-deer shot was at 200yds.
6.5 Grendel 120gr TSX Performance
This is also the load that Mark LaRue used for his Elk hunt several years ago, where he scored a 405yd shot and piled up a rather large bull.
Another guy in Georgia scored a double-kill on Coyotes with the 123gr AMAX as well. Even though the 123gr AMAX is a target bullet, it seems to behave like a 120gr Nosler Ballistic Tip.
Some people have voiced concerns here about the Grendel not being able to generate enough velocity to get Barnes TSX or TTSX bullets to fully expand on game.
A guy just posted the results of his axis deer, blackbuck, and meat hog hunt this past week, using the AA-loaded factory 120gr TSX. Results:
4 Axis does
one old Blackbuck ram
one meat hog which weighed approximately 80 lbs
4 of the critters were DRT, other 2 piled up within 30yds.
Shots ranged from 100 to 230yds.
Exit holes were nickel-sized.
One shot DRT'd 2 does, with the farside doe not seen at the time until they saw them both drop. The TSX went through and through both does, passing through the neck of the first, through the entire chest cavity of the second, destroying the off-side shoulder before exiting. That 2-deer shot was at 200yds.
6.5 Grendel 120gr TSX Performance
This is also the load that Mark LaRue used for his Elk hunt several years ago, where he scored a 405yd shot and piled up a rather large bull.
Another guy in Georgia scored a double-kill on Coyotes with the 123gr AMAX as well. Even though the 123gr AMAX is a target bullet, it seems to behave like a 120gr Nosler Ballistic Tip.
Re: 6.5 or 6.8?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bustin</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Too bad most of those hunting bullets were made to open at 260 Rem and 6.5 swed velocities. Bill Waites himself posted the photo of a 120gr TSX recovered from a deer. The petals had barely opened enough to make them wider than the original bullet diameter so no wonder they penetrate well, they work like a FMJ on game which is not what an ethical hunter wants.
Now just this year Hornady is making the 123SST which was designed to open at Grendel velocities. The 100TTSX and 100 Nosler are 2 more that will open up at Grendel velocities.
If you keep that in mind there are a lot more 6.8 bullets that work properly for hunting than there are 6.5 bullets that can be USED in the Grendel/264LBC. It's a different story for target bullets, there are more 6.5 target bullets than 6.8 target bullets since they don't have to expand to kill paper. </div></div>
When speaking of velocities a bullet will "open up", you really cannot count on this data for hogs. You are comparing the data required in "Thin skinned" game to the density a Hog's shoulders have.
First you must penetrate the armor a Hog to get to the good stuff.
You need a bullet that will retain its weight. This is why the Barnes bullets shine.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bustin</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Too bad most of those hunting bullets were made to open at 260 Rem and 6.5 swed velocities. Bill Waites himself posted the photo of a 120gr TSX recovered from a deer. The petals had barely opened enough to make them wider than the original bullet diameter so no wonder they penetrate well, they work like a FMJ on game which is not what an ethical hunter wants.
Now just this year Hornady is making the 123SST which was designed to open at Grendel velocities. The 100TTSX and 100 Nosler are 2 more that will open up at Grendel velocities.
If you keep that in mind there are a lot more 6.8 bullets that work properly for hunting than there are 6.5 bullets that can be USED in the Grendel/264LBC. It's a different story for target bullets, there are more 6.5 target bullets than 6.8 target bullets since they don't have to expand to kill paper. </div></div>
When speaking of velocities a bullet will "open up", you really cannot count on this data for hogs. You are comparing the data required in "Thin skinned" game to the density a Hog's shoulders have.
First you must penetrate the armor a Hog to get to the good stuff.
You need a bullet that will retain its weight. This is why the Barnes bullets shine.
Re: 6.5 or 6.8?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Hooper</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bustin</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Too bad most of those hunting bullets were made to open at 260 Rem and 6.5 swed velocities. Bill Waites himself posted the photo of a 120gr TSX recovered from a deer. The petals had barely opened enough to make them wider than the original bullet diameter so no wonder they penetrate well, they work like a FMJ on game which is not what an ethical hunter wants.
Now just this year Hornady is making the 123SST which was designed to open at Grendel velocities. The 100TTSX and 100 Nosler are 2 more that will open up at Grendel velocities.
If you keep that in mind there are a lot more 6.8 bullets that work properly for hunting than there are 6.5 bullets that can be USED in the Grendel/264LBC. It's a different story for target bullets, there are more 6.5 target bullets than 6.8 target bullets since they don't have to expand to kill paper. </div></div>
When speaking of velocities a bullet will "open up", you really cannot count on this data for hogs. You are comparing the data required in "Thin skinned" game to the density a Hog's shoulders have.
First you must penetrate the armor a Hog to get to the good stuff.
You need a bullet that will retain its weight. This is why the Barnes bullets shine. </div></div>
yeah I've been hunting hogs since the mid 70s starting with big heavy slow bullets out of an old 30-30. They didn't work so well. The 270 and 308 with 150gr and lighter bullets performed much better. I have been using Barnes TSXs since 2006 but the ones I use open up AND retain 95% + of their weight when used on hogs or deer. Never seen armor on a hog. I've seen thick hide and fat that broadheads zip right through. I've seen a little 85gr Barnes at 2800fps hit a 200lb + hog square in the shoulder and exit the opposite ham. Complete pass through diagonal.
The rest is not directed at you, just added in.
If you want to use a bullet that acts like a FMJ on deer go right ahead, I'll continue to use bullets that expand and offer better terminal performance. It doesn't matter if it's long range or a slow starting velocity. If it's slower than what is needed to make them open up like Barnes designed them to they aren't doing the damage as designed. Why don't people hunt with fmjs? Because most know they don't work well. Why is it illegal to hunt game animals with fmjs?
So What happens when someone shoots a hog or deer with a Grendel /264 and a 140 Nosler or 129SST some other heavy slow bullet that is recommended by the fan boys and it goes through like a fmj and they loose the animal. Do you think they will be impressed with the performance of the Grendel/264? So I have to ask some are you really helping the round by advising someone to use bullets that do not perform well just so you can say look at all the bullets we have to choose from?
I like the 6.8, hunting bullets under 120gr only. I like the 6.5G/264 too, 123gr bullets and under except for the 120 TSX. I've shot hundreds if not thousands of these bullets in the 6.5g/264, 260 Rem and my 6.5-08AI. They work great in the 6.5-08 as a matter of fact it is my favorite bullet in that rifle. Shoot that bullet in gel at 300yds out of a 6.5G/264 with a hunting length barrel and it will not open up as designed. In the end it is the choice of the user, I'm just not going to suggest using a bullet that doesn't perform as designed.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Hooper</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bustin</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Too bad most of those hunting bullets were made to open at 260 Rem and 6.5 swed velocities. Bill Waites himself posted the photo of a 120gr TSX recovered from a deer. The petals had barely opened enough to make them wider than the original bullet diameter so no wonder they penetrate well, they work like a FMJ on game which is not what an ethical hunter wants.
Now just this year Hornady is making the 123SST which was designed to open at Grendel velocities. The 100TTSX and 100 Nosler are 2 more that will open up at Grendel velocities.
If you keep that in mind there are a lot more 6.8 bullets that work properly for hunting than there are 6.5 bullets that can be USED in the Grendel/264LBC. It's a different story for target bullets, there are more 6.5 target bullets than 6.8 target bullets since they don't have to expand to kill paper. </div></div>
When speaking of velocities a bullet will "open up", you really cannot count on this data for hogs. You are comparing the data required in "Thin skinned" game to the density a Hog's shoulders have.
First you must penetrate the armor a Hog to get to the good stuff.
You need a bullet that will retain its weight. This is why the Barnes bullets shine. </div></div>
yeah I've been hunting hogs since the mid 70s starting with big heavy slow bullets out of an old 30-30. They didn't work so well. The 270 and 308 with 150gr and lighter bullets performed much better. I have been using Barnes TSXs since 2006 but the ones I use open up AND retain 95% + of their weight when used on hogs or deer. Never seen armor on a hog. I've seen thick hide and fat that broadheads zip right through. I've seen a little 85gr Barnes at 2800fps hit a 200lb + hog square in the shoulder and exit the opposite ham. Complete pass through diagonal.
The rest is not directed at you, just added in.
If you want to use a bullet that acts like a FMJ on deer go right ahead, I'll continue to use bullets that expand and offer better terminal performance. It doesn't matter if it's long range or a slow starting velocity. If it's slower than what is needed to make them open up like Barnes designed them to they aren't doing the damage as designed. Why don't people hunt with fmjs? Because most know they don't work well. Why is it illegal to hunt game animals with fmjs?
So What happens when someone shoots a hog or deer with a Grendel /264 and a 140 Nosler or 129SST some other heavy slow bullet that is recommended by the fan boys and it goes through like a fmj and they loose the animal. Do you think they will be impressed with the performance of the Grendel/264? So I have to ask some are you really helping the round by advising someone to use bullets that do not perform well just so you can say look at all the bullets we have to choose from?
I like the 6.8, hunting bullets under 120gr only. I like the 6.5G/264 too, 123gr bullets and under except for the 120 TSX. I've shot hundreds if not thousands of these bullets in the 6.5g/264, 260 Rem and my 6.5-08AI. They work great in the 6.5-08 as a matter of fact it is my favorite bullet in that rifle. Shoot that bullet in gel at 300yds out of a 6.5G/264 with a hunting length barrel and it will not open up as designed. In the end it is the choice of the user, I'm just not going to suggest using a bullet that doesn't perform as designed.
Re: 6.5 or 6.8?
That's just the thing of it. The hunting pills already available for 6.5mm do open up at Grendel velocities, since the minimum expansion thresholds are way beyond the common hunting distances anyway.
The 120gr TSX that was just used to kill 2 does at once opened up to .465", and destroyed the off-side shoulder of the second deer, and that was at 200yds.
Even the 123gr AMAX behaves like a Nosler Ballistic Tip on game, and Grendel hunters have been using it to kill hogs, coyotes, and deer like it was a hunting pill, even though it's not.
You don't need 2800fps mv to get the 6.5mm hunting pills to perform within 300-350yds, and many of them will still perform at 400+ yards when launched at moderate speeds. Like I said, I've seen the recovered pills across the impact velocity spectrum. It certainly isn't an issue at 250yds and less, and I'm curious as to what bullets act like an FMJ, other than the pelt-taker Lapua Cutting Edge 100gr FMJ, Norma 120gr FMJ, and Lapua 144gr FMJ.
Here's how the new 123gr SST behaves on deer:
Here's some results with the 120gr TSX:
<span style="font-weight: bold">Two of those does were taken with one shot at 200yds, and they both DRT'd.</span>
I've also seen what the Grendel does when shot at 2890fps mv with an experimental Hornady GMX cut down to 94gr, and it isn't pretty.
This was after he washed the carcass down, as it sprayed blood all over the forest, creating a grizzly scene.
There also was a Grendel hunter who used the 85gr Sierra Hollow Point, which is a varmint pill all day long. He shot a deer at 300yds, hit the shoulder, and it exited the off-side shoulder. Internals were annihilated.
That's just the thing of it. The hunting pills already available for 6.5mm do open up at Grendel velocities, since the minimum expansion thresholds are way beyond the common hunting distances anyway.
The 120gr TSX that was just used to kill 2 does at once opened up to .465", and destroyed the off-side shoulder of the second deer, and that was at 200yds.
Even the 123gr AMAX behaves like a Nosler Ballistic Tip on game, and Grendel hunters have been using it to kill hogs, coyotes, and deer like it was a hunting pill, even though it's not.
You don't need 2800fps mv to get the 6.5mm hunting pills to perform within 300-350yds, and many of them will still perform at 400+ yards when launched at moderate speeds. Like I said, I've seen the recovered pills across the impact velocity spectrum. It certainly isn't an issue at 250yds and less, and I'm curious as to what bullets act like an FMJ, other than the pelt-taker Lapua Cutting Edge 100gr FMJ, Norma 120gr FMJ, and Lapua 144gr FMJ.
Here's how the new 123gr SST behaves on deer:
Here's some results with the 120gr TSX:
<span style="font-weight: bold">Two of those does were taken with one shot at 200yds, and they both DRT'd.</span>
I've also seen what the Grendel does when shot at 2890fps mv with an experimental Hornady GMX cut down to 94gr, and it isn't pretty.
This was after he washed the carcass down, as it sprayed blood all over the forest, creating a grizzly scene.
There also was a Grendel hunter who used the 85gr Sierra Hollow Point, which is a varmint pill all day long. He shot a deer at 300yds, hit the shoulder, and it exited the off-side shoulder. Internals were annihilated.
Re: 6.5 or 6.8?
I like the new 123SST it was made to open at slower velocity. It shoots with the exact same loads as the 123 Amax. It may very well be the best bullet for the 6.5G/264. I have not had a chance to test the 120 TTSX yet...could be another good one. We Tested the 120 TSX,130 TSX, 130 Scirocco, 130 Accubond and 129SST a few years ago in gel at 300yds. They didn't open up very well.
You say the G offers extended range hunting because of the high BC bullets. Those are the big heavy high BC bullets but they are going slow enough at 300 that they don't open up the way they were designed. They were designed for 260 velocities. If they had the lower expansion threshold that the 123 SST does I think they would expand much better. Or they need to be used at shorter ranges where the vel is higher. Anyone can hunt with whatever they want, it's a personal choice. I'm just not going to recommend the heavier bullets to those buying the barrels I sell or anyone on a forum. Other bullets work better IMO.
I like the new 123SST it was made to open at slower velocity. It shoots with the exact same loads as the 123 Amax. It may very well be the best bullet for the 6.5G/264. I have not had a chance to test the 120 TTSX yet...could be another good one. We Tested the 120 TSX,130 TSX, 130 Scirocco, 130 Accubond and 129SST a few years ago in gel at 300yds. They didn't open up very well.
You say the G offers extended range hunting because of the high BC bullets. Those are the big heavy high BC bullets but they are going slow enough at 300 that they don't open up the way they were designed. They were designed for 260 velocities. If they had the lower expansion threshold that the 123 SST does I think they would expand much better. Or they need to be used at shorter ranges where the vel is higher. Anyone can hunt with whatever they want, it's a personal choice. I'm just not going to recommend the heavier bullets to those buying the barrels I sell or anyone on a forum. Other bullets work better IMO.
Re: 6.5 or 6.8?
If your hunting parameters start at 300yds and go outwards from there, you probably should be looking at a case capacity of the .308 or more, in my opinion. Nowhere do I advocate the common hunter to lean towards a micro-action case as their primary long-range hunting platform.
Has it been done with a Grendel? Yes, to include large bull and cow elk, antelope, deer, and even rams in Alaska. Once you become proficient with your carbine or rifle to the point that you know you can place hits in a vital zone at those distances, it's your call.
This is what the 130gr Swift Scirocco looks like at 1810fps impact velocity:
When fired from a Grendel at 2350fps, that still keeps it over 1800fps out to 375yds at sea level, even when we use a reduced BC of .545 for the Scirocco. If you're looking for deep penetration, you have a great bullet with the 130gr Swift Scirocco.
If you want rapid expansion at closer ranges, run the 100gr TTSX, 100gr Nosler Partition, or 100gr NBT. Another amazing bullet is the Wolf Gold Line 120gr MPT, which has a tapered jacket thickness. It has a very thin jacket at the nose, but gets thicker and thicker until reaching the base, so it mushrooms nicely, but retains the weight of the core, and it's only $13 a box.
There are plenty of choices in the 6.5mm that will cover your hunting needs. I would argue that at Grendel velocities at common hunting distances, you have more controlled expansion, rather than a violent loss of the projectile nose. You get a nice balance of expansion and penetration.
If your hunting parameters start at 300yds and go outwards from there, you probably should be looking at a case capacity of the .308 or more, in my opinion. Nowhere do I advocate the common hunter to lean towards a micro-action case as their primary long-range hunting platform.
Has it been done with a Grendel? Yes, to include large bull and cow elk, antelope, deer, and even rams in Alaska. Once you become proficient with your carbine or rifle to the point that you know you can place hits in a vital zone at those distances, it's your call.
This is what the 130gr Swift Scirocco looks like at 1810fps impact velocity:
When fired from a Grendel at 2350fps, that still keeps it over 1800fps out to 375yds at sea level, even when we use a reduced BC of .545 for the Scirocco. If you're looking for deep penetration, you have a great bullet with the 130gr Swift Scirocco.
If you want rapid expansion at closer ranges, run the 100gr TTSX, 100gr Nosler Partition, or 100gr NBT. Another amazing bullet is the Wolf Gold Line 120gr MPT, which has a tapered jacket thickness. It has a very thin jacket at the nose, but gets thicker and thicker until reaching the base, so it mushrooms nicely, but retains the weight of the core, and it's only $13 a box.
There are plenty of choices in the 6.5mm that will cover your hunting needs. I would argue that at Grendel velocities at common hunting distances, you have more controlled expansion, rather than a violent loss of the projectile nose. You get a nice balance of expansion and penetration.
Re: 6.5 or 6.8?
I'm pretty decent with my .308 and .223 platforms. The .308 is a POF 20" P308 and shoots great when I take my time with the shot. But the area I will be hunting in will have shots around 100-200 yes and 400 being the maximum. I don't want to try to pull off a kill shot using my .223 at 400yds but don't want to pack the .308 for a few days, hence the original question.
Thank you to everyone who has weighed in on my question. I have learned volumes so far and I hope it helps others as well
I'm pretty decent with my .308 and .223 platforms. The .308 is a POF 20" P308 and shoots great when I take my time with the shot. But the area I will be hunting in will have shots around 100-200 yes and 400 being the maximum. I don't want to try to pull off a kill shot using my .223 at 400yds but don't want to pack the .308 for a few days, hence the original question.
Thank you to everyone who has weighed in on my question. I have learned volumes so far and I hope it helps others as well
Re: 6.5 or 6.8?
http://68forums.com/forums/showthread.php?33178-6.8-SPC-Bullet-Performance/page8
There is some good information in this thread about how 6.8 bullets perform, the page linked talks about the 300 yard test, judging from the test, the bullets shown ought to still be able to expand reliably at 400 yards, maybe even further. I have no doubt that either the 6.5 or the 6.8 can perform at this range, both have been proven time and time again to be able to do so. Anything past this, I would look at something a bit more powerful such as a 260 or 7mm-08, maybe a magnum.
http://68forums.com/forums/showthread.php?33178-6.8-SPC-Bullet-Performance/page8
There is some good information in this thread about how 6.8 bullets perform, the page linked talks about the 300 yard test, judging from the test, the bullets shown ought to still be able to expand reliably at 400 yards, maybe even further. I have no doubt that either the 6.5 or the 6.8 can perform at this range, both have been proven time and time again to be able to do so. Anything past this, I would look at something a bit more powerful such as a 260 or 7mm-08, maybe a magnum.
Re: 6.5 or 6.8?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bustin</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Hooper</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bustin</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Too bad most of those hunting bullets were made to open at 260 Rem and 6.5 swed velocities. Bill Waites himself posted the photo of a 120gr TSX recovered from a deer. The petals had barely opened enough to make them wider than the original bullet diameter so no wonder they penetrate well, they work like a FMJ on game which is not what an ethical hunter wants.
Now just this year Hornady is making the 123SST which was designed to open at Grendel velocities. The 100TTSX and 100 Nosler are 2 more that will open up at Grendel velocities.
If you keep that in mind there are a lot more 6.8 bullets that work properly for hunting than there are 6.5 bullets that can be USED in the Grendel/264LBC. It's a different story for target bullets, there are more 6.5 target bullets than 6.8 target bullets since they don't have to expand to kill paper. </div></div>
When speaking of velocities a bullet will "open up", you really cannot count on this data for hogs. You are comparing the data required in "Thin skinned" game to the density a Hog's shoulders have.
First you must penetrate the armor a Hog to get to the good stuff.
You need a bullet that will retain its weight. This is why the Barnes bullets shine. </div></div>
yeah I've been hunting hogs since the mid 70s starting with big heavy slow bullets out of an old 30-30. They didn't work so well. The 270 and 308 with 150gr and lighter bullets performed much better. I have been using Barnes TSXs since 2006 but the ones I use open up AND retain 95% + of their weight when used on hogs or deer. Never seen armor on a hog. I've seen thick hide and fat that broadheads zip right through. I've seen a little 85gr Barnes at 2800fps hit a 200lb + hog square in the shoulder and exit the opposite ham. Complete pass through diagonal.
</div></div>
I have seen those miracle shots too. I shot some hogs last year with a 5.56 that were huge and did somer saults upon being hit. DRT. Wish I had it on video.
But on a consistent basis? NO
Can you shoot a Large Hog broadside and have pass throughs most of the time? NO
I do not like shooting a Hog and looking for it past 20 yds from where I hit it. So, I will use a Grendel and try headshots and heart lung shots.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bustin</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Hooper</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bustin</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Too bad most of those hunting bullets were made to open at 260 Rem and 6.5 swed velocities. Bill Waites himself posted the photo of a 120gr TSX recovered from a deer. The petals had barely opened enough to make them wider than the original bullet diameter so no wonder they penetrate well, they work like a FMJ on game which is not what an ethical hunter wants.
Now just this year Hornady is making the 123SST which was designed to open at Grendel velocities. The 100TTSX and 100 Nosler are 2 more that will open up at Grendel velocities.
If you keep that in mind there are a lot more 6.8 bullets that work properly for hunting than there are 6.5 bullets that can be USED in the Grendel/264LBC. It's a different story for target bullets, there are more 6.5 target bullets than 6.8 target bullets since they don't have to expand to kill paper. </div></div>
When speaking of velocities a bullet will "open up", you really cannot count on this data for hogs. You are comparing the data required in "Thin skinned" game to the density a Hog's shoulders have.
First you must penetrate the armor a Hog to get to the good stuff.
You need a bullet that will retain its weight. This is why the Barnes bullets shine. </div></div>
yeah I've been hunting hogs since the mid 70s starting with big heavy slow bullets out of an old 30-30. They didn't work so well. The 270 and 308 with 150gr and lighter bullets performed much better. I have been using Barnes TSXs since 2006 but the ones I use open up AND retain 95% + of their weight when used on hogs or deer. Never seen armor on a hog. I've seen thick hide and fat that broadheads zip right through. I've seen a little 85gr Barnes at 2800fps hit a 200lb + hog square in the shoulder and exit the opposite ham. Complete pass through diagonal.
</div></div>
I have seen those miracle shots too. I shot some hogs last year with a 5.56 that were huge and did somer saults upon being hit. DRT. Wish I had it on video.
But on a consistent basis? NO
Can you shoot a Large Hog broadside and have pass throughs most of the time? NO
I do not like shooting a Hog and looking for it past 20 yds from where I hit it. So, I will use a Grendel and try headshots and heart lung shots.
Re: 6.5 or 6.8?
Yes thats why I am looking into the 6.5 or 6.8 caliber. The .308 I have while great, just a little heavy to pack for a couple of days, maybe Im getting too old ha ha ha. But ounces=pounds and pounds=pain.
Yes thats why I am looking into the 6.5 or 6.8 caliber. The .308 I have while great, just a little heavy to pack for a couple of days, maybe Im getting too old ha ha ha. But ounces=pounds and pounds=pain.
Similar threads
