Ok I have a $1500 budget and a rem700 vsf .308 26" fluted barrel, badger 20moa base, badger tac knob, jewled and worked bolt, H&S stock,and a trigger job, and Im looking to get a scope. This is my only high power rifle and I shoot more then most people ( 60 times a year) so it will be at the range offen, But I also go hunting 2 or 3 times a year and this will come with. I would like to be able to hit 1000yards but that is not my goal. I realy want FFP, But do I need it? It has to be MOA/MOAand I would pefure 1/4 or 1/2 click values. I like the Nightforce line but Im not sure if I can afford a ffp nightforce thats why I ask if its that important. Iv never shot or even handled a ffp. Also please bare with me Im a newbie Im sure you have seen a million threads like this.
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Rifle Scopes Best all around scope $1500
- Thread starter SOTA
- Start date
Read these, and then ask your questions, in the unlikely outcome that you have any left:
http://www.snipershide.com/shooting/snipers-hide-rifle-scopes/55703-optics-selection.html
http://www.snipershide.com/shooting/snipers-hide-rifle-scopes/531-**-optics-faqs-**.html
http://www.snipershide.com/shooting/snipers-hide-rifle-scopes/55703-optics-selection.html
http://www.snipershide.com/shooting/snipers-hide-rifle-scopes/531-**-optics-faqs-**.html
If you really want FFP then I'd say get it weather you really need it or not. Under $1500 brand new the Bushnell HDMR is hard to beat. If you could do A little more you could buy a used Vortex Razor for $1600-1700.
I'm not sure if either of these scopes are offered in MOA/MOA...but judging from your newbie comment you may want to look into a MIL/MIL setup as well.
I'm not sure if either of these scopes are offered in MOA/MOA...but judging from your newbie comment you may want to look into a MIL/MIL setup as well.
Here are a couple of videos that might help explain moa vs mil.
Understanding Mils (Milliradians) - Rifle Shooting Technique - NSSF Shooting Sportscast - YouTube
Understanding Minute of Angle (MOA) - Rifle Shooting Technique - NSSF Shooting Sportscast - YouTube
Understanding Mils (Milliradians) - Rifle Shooting Technique - NSSF Shooting Sportscast - YouTube
Understanding Minute of Angle (MOA) - Rifle Shooting Technique - NSSF Shooting Sportscast - YouTube
Bushnell has quite an extensive line of optics. The HDMR, SMRS, LRS, and ERS lines are no Walmart exclusives, and neither are any of their Elite
line. I'm not sure what constitutes cool to you, but Fully multi coated ED argon purged Japanese glass built and assembled in 30 & 34mm tubes with good internal travel, 10 mil locking turrets on some models, a 6.5x erector and a plethora of purposeful reticles have many on here holding in very high regard. They offer 6 different mag ranges in FFP (1-6.5 1-8.5 3-12 6-24 3.5-21 4.5-30) are also lifetime warranted and come with a year 'no questions asked refund'
I think you'll be surprised if to see what they offer now, stretching past the $2,000 mark on new models. Expect to pay anywhere from $1,100-1,350 for 1st generation DMR
They do sell the low end products you've referenced but the company has expanded dramatically and is doing very well (competitive with higher priced options)
Solid scopes-
But none in MOA/MOA
Might want to consider US Optics if you have the cash or take a look into Sightron SIII (several long range matching MOA models, 6-24, 8-32 and 10-50) as well as Vortex's Viper PST
Good luck with your search-
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SOTA the easiest scope or reticle that I have found for novice shooters, including ten year olds, is the Horus Reticle. It is offered in, of course Horus Vision scopes, as well as many other top scope manufactures. Just something to take a look at.
if you are stuck on the 1500, go with the bushnell HDMR, my son has one loves it. go with ffp as if ranging only way to go and if i had someone just starting out would tell them to go mills as easyier and when talking the the other guys that shoot makes it easier and a easier system overall. just my opinion.
I've heard 'rumors' of new Burris (same plant as Steiner) scopes being release very shortly with 5x magnification, FFP, and MIL/MIL around the $1,200 range....
I have the Nightforce 3.5-15x55 SFP in the MOAR reticle and I love it... should be able to find it right around $1500.
Vortex Viper PST 6-24 FFP MOA/MOA. Spend another $60 bucks on a magnification throw lever and you will be a very happy man. I picked mine up on ebay for $850. Retail is $1050 I believe. Very good quality scope, 1/4 MOA clicks, and the best warranty in the business (I already had to use it cause I screwed up a set of rings, and I was extremely impressed). Yeah sure there's the Nightforce and this and that that's a lot more, but I can't imagine needing a nicer scope.
I really like my G2DMR/HDMR. I don't think it can be beat for the money. That and SSHD are both top picks under $1800 for FFP.
I prefer FFP scopes for hunting and SFP scopes for bustin' paper. Unless you're using a ranging reticle, whether mil-dots or some other, FFP isn't all that important. The reason I prefer FFP scopes for hunting is that the magnified reticles tend to hang around as light fades. If you just want to get out to 1000, you want a durable setup, you want pretty good glass, then look for a used NXS in whatever turret setup you deel most comfortable running.
Hahaha! I gave the same advice there too! Just bite the bullet and get Tim's NF~! If you want to check out my PST or SS 5-20 your still welcome. Just PM me on COAR. Cheers!
When I got my first Bushnell Elite 4200, it was about $500.
Now, the scope they're selling, which is essentially the same scope, is $950ish.
And even for $950, it has every feature I would want except a zero stop, which I really do wish it had.
The 3.5-21 that everyone is raving about looks to be a good unit with some interesting features, but still lacks the zero stop. I'm not sure that I would be willing to pay $1600 for it, based on what else is out there in that price range, but the 3.5 on the low end really is great and is comparable to the higher-end optics.
I recommend the Trijicon Accupoint 5-20x50. Amazing glass and I really love that micro green dot that is adjustable for brightness. It's SFP and somewhat heavy, but it's built like a tank and like I said, amazing glass.
I tested the vortex post 4-16x50, the Valdada 3-18x42, the Valdada 3.5-18x50, a US Optics 3.7-22x42 and the Bushnell 3.5-21x50 G2 DMR. I keep meaning to write up an extensive review but long story short I kept the Bushnell Elite Tactical 3.5-21. I too had difficulty at first with the "stigma" of the cheap Bushnell name but that all disappeared when I compared the optics to some of the best German glass. There are more applications and recomendations for MIL/MIL so I stuck with that. Like the OP I wanted a LR scope that could be used for comp as well as hunting and I'm very happy with my choice.
I was in the same situation as you after shooting my first tactical competition and realizing my 8.5x32x56 sightron iii SFP was not going to cut it. Glass is actually really good but there were times i really wished i had a FFP scope. So i just picked up the G2 DMR without ever even seeing one in person, just based on reviews here and i couldn't be happier. When i opened the box my first reaction was, WOW its a BEAST!(This is my first scope with a tube larger than 30mm) I love the G2 retical and for me i really like the locking turrets, as i would always bump them while hunting with the old scope. For the price i dont think you can beat it, as i really wanted a RAZOR, but I was able to get a Macrees chassies and DMR for basically the price of a new RAZOR. Good luck
Although it's not as new as some of the Bushnells, I'm still a HUGE fan of the SS 5-20 HD. Will get my vote almost every time in that price range.
I was just in your situation and I ended up getting the HDMR G2 reticule. The scopes I have used vary from the walmart special as a kid to nikons and leopulds. I have looked through a couple buddies ziess, swavorski, and night force and to be honest I haven't shot my rifle with the bushnell but from what I played with it is seems to be as clear and bright as the last three scope makers I mentioned. I am really happy with it and when I told my step dad about which scope I went with and he heard bushnell he was quite suprised that they had much good. He has been a leopuld man for 50+ years and when he looked through it he was amazed.
At the end of the day, a SFP scope is perfectly fine and a fair bit cheaper if you are either shooting at known ranges or can range (using a rangefinder) your target and do the necessary arithmetic for holdovers or work at the optimal magnification for the compensations of a BDC reticle. If, on the other hand, you are using the scope for ranging and/or shooting at unknown distances, FFP is your preferred choice.
As to selection, I somewhat spoiled myself by getting used to Zeiss Conquest RapidZ SFP reticles on my hunting rifles (they have great glass and take a licking and keep on ticking) and using a laser rangefinder so, given my advanced age (67), functional age of 1 knee (81) and 1 ankle (93), I'm very happy to avoid courses that require running or extensive hiking. Also, most of my target work is at fixed ranges, so for me all but one of my scopes are SFPs. I'm currently wrestling with choice between a Zeiss Conquest with Rapid Z1000 reticle (SFP) (about $800) as I shoot mostly .308 Win for targets using 175gr Sierra Match Kings for one of my precision rifles or a NightForce NXS (about $1,900) or Vortex PST (about $700 w/ SFP, $900 with FFP) or Razor (about $1,900 IIRC).
The most important determinant is what you will really use the rifle for.
I have 2 scopes, for example, for my .375 H&H hunting rifle, both mounted in Leupy QR rings to fit my QR bases. My 3-9x40 is useful when I'm using 260gr bullets for elk or moose (although I've seen only one moose and that in Rocky Mountain NP so he was quite safe)which at 2,700 fps nearly match the ballistics of a .30-06 shooting a 180gr bullet out to 275 yards or so and I put a 1.5-6x24 on when I'm anticipating big game (like a bear) up reasonably close and using 300gr bullets (if I'm going fishing in Alaska). I have a Zeiss 3.5-10x44 with a RapidZ800 reticle on my 7mm RM...I know where it will put things out to 800 yards at 9x using 160gr bullets. Since I have yet to take a hunting shot longer that 325 yards, I'm covered. Targets, not so much...
FH
As to selection, I somewhat spoiled myself by getting used to Zeiss Conquest RapidZ SFP reticles on my hunting rifles (they have great glass and take a licking and keep on ticking) and using a laser rangefinder so, given my advanced age (67), functional age of 1 knee (81) and 1 ankle (93), I'm very happy to avoid courses that require running or extensive hiking. Also, most of my target work is at fixed ranges, so for me all but one of my scopes are SFPs. I'm currently wrestling with choice between a Zeiss Conquest with Rapid Z1000 reticle (SFP) (about $800) as I shoot mostly .308 Win for targets using 175gr Sierra Match Kings for one of my precision rifles or a NightForce NXS (about $1,900) or Vortex PST (about $700 w/ SFP, $900 with FFP) or Razor (about $1,900 IIRC).
The most important determinant is what you will really use the rifle for.
I have 2 scopes, for example, for my .375 H&H hunting rifle, both mounted in Leupy QR rings to fit my QR bases. My 3-9x40 is useful when I'm using 260gr bullets for elk or moose (although I've seen only one moose and that in Rocky Mountain NP so he was quite safe)which at 2,700 fps nearly match the ballistics of a .30-06 shooting a 180gr bullet out to 275 yards or so and I put a 1.5-6x24 on when I'm anticipating big game (like a bear) up reasonably close and using 300gr bullets (if I'm going fishing in Alaska). I have a Zeiss 3.5-10x44 with a RapidZ800 reticle on my 7mm RM...I know where it will put things out to 800 yards at 9x using 160gr bullets. Since I have yet to take a hunting shot longer that 325 yards, I'm covered. Targets, not so much...
FH
I had a $1500 budget on my scope. Was in the same situation, Looking at IOR, Leupold, Vortex Razor, and Bushnell. Got a chance to see the PST, a Mark IV and a S&B. Well I wanted the S&B but that isn't happening for a few years so went with a filler scope for the time being and went with the Bushnell. Couldn't be happier. Had it out today for the first time. Picked it up new for $1100 bucks last weekend. Glass was clear, its beefy and feels pretty sturdy. I like the controls. and the best part is now I have $400 to spend on ammo and shooting. Wish it had zero stop, Wish it was illuminated but those features I can live with out.
Have you looked at the IOR Valdada 3-18x42 SH X1? It's FFP with an illuminated reticle comparable to Horus, extremely well-built too. Mine is on order so no personal feedback, but the peeps on these boards helped design it! I think that SWFA has it for just a few benjamins over your budget if you can swing it.
Fwiw, we had a Bushnell HDMR, a Vortex Razor, a SS 5-20, and a Nightforce 5.5-22 on the line today at Turtle Sniper's place, and we hung around to gauge lowlight performance. The SS and Vortex had slightly better low light performance. I liked the Bushnell's reticle best, with the Vortex second. The SS had the most usable illumination. Overall they're all close, I still prefer the Bushnell for overall value and options. The SS is behind only because of the reticle, and the Vortex because of price. The Nightforce clarity and reticle wasn't quite as good as the others, but is tough.
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Burris, FFP, 5x magnification (e.g. 4-20x50), MIL/MIL, $1,200ish. Not sure of the exactly release date....
I currently run the SWFA 5-20. Great scope for the money I am not sure I am sold on the reticle. It has some good features but being as it is not the norm of what I am use to (mil dot) It is taking some time getting use to. It is built like a tank though I feel like I could use it as a club if needed too and the click are great imo.
I was wondering why it hadn't shown up too. The SS 5-20 is one of the "best buys" out there. However, it's Mil/Mil and you're starting to get into the larger, heavier scopes which may or may not be suitable for your "hunting" purposes. Everything's a compromise however. It's a lot of scope for well under your budget. For $1500, you could find an illuminated SS and a nice set of rings.
What about the new Bushnell ERS 3.5-21x50 it's msrp is 1999 but it can be had for just over ur budget. Upgrades from the hdmr are the 10mil turrets and the zero stop. It's getting great reviews as I am in the market as well and have been doing a ton or research.
My opinion, shooting a grand is more the Indian than the bow, people have been doing it with 8x scopes and less since before nam. As far as a good general purpose scope the leupold 3.5-10 ffp m3 is not a bad option at all. I shot a nightforce for a while ( great scope/reticle combination for moa/moa) just like you said pricy. But I've made mistakes and take these words with a grain of salt, "buy once, cry once"
I know right, look how LAME they look. Just a stupid walmart scope. I amaze people about once a week that are ignorant to the fact that Bushnell makes a top quality product.
I bet they used to walk barefoot in the snow up hill to and from school.
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