700 or Savage .308 buy/build/upgrade Guidance

[demolitionman]

700 or Savage .308 buy/build/upgrade Guidance

Hello Snipershide! A little background and insight in hopes to answer any possible questions that may come up during my heavy barrel 400/800yd rifle purchase and this threads progression.*

I have alotted about 1400 for the rifle(possibly more if need be). I have 4x14x44 Bushnell Legend Ultra HD glass(fine hair mill dot) for now, and will replace it with a Vortex PST at some point in near future. I'm rather mechanically inclined, and willing to learn, although I currently don't have access to any machinework nor do I know any reputable gunsmiths. I have sent thousands of rounds of .223 downrange in my AR platform, as well as a few thousand through my late Savage 12fvss of which accounted for over 500 groundhog kills over the years.*

I have little knowledge of bedding(am willing to learn, and not scared to try), and I'll let it be known I'm a duck hunter looking for another expensive hobby to play with in the off season.*

Intended Use: primarily paper punching itty bitty groups at mid to long range. I have access to 1000 yd shooting out my back door for what that's worth. **
Most of the paper punching will be done off bags on a bench so I'm not afraid to get a heavy stout setup. I think I'd prefer a 26" barell and although i do not currently, I will be handloading soon. I do think I want to shoot 168 pills and up, and 190's eventually for longer range.*

Here's where I need some brotherhood *SNIPERSHIDE insight:
ACTIONS: I have no preferance nor bias towards the 700 action or the Savage Action. I Do have a personality of which i tend to change, upgrade, tinker and tweak my "toys" until they are perfect for me and long after I realized how much money I spent lol.*
Do any of you recommend starting out by buying a lesser rifle, say a Savage Stevens model just for the action, then replace the stock, trigger or possibly barrel all with aftermarket goodies and still fall within my budget constraints?*
Or say buy a new Remy 700 on the cheap just for the action and replace stock, trigger, barrel bed it etc etc?*
If that is a good idea, which it kinda appeals to me, where would I begin to order parts online? Im not real hip to the precision shooting aftermarket be it triggers, barrel or stock mfgers.

I'm not opposed at all to just plinking 1300 or so down on a rifle (not counting glass remember) and just keeping the stock, bedding the action to it, and * Focusing on handloads. It just seems like a "pieced together purpose built rifle" is cheaper to build of higher quality than what savage or Remington are offering off the shelf. The two off the shelf rigs I'm eyeing are the savage model 12 Bench Gun and the Remy 700p w/26" barrel. *Sidenote: I'm really wanting to stick to .308 because my best friend and shooting partner has that and together we are tying to keep the reloading gear all similar for now. A 6mmbr may be by next build if this 308 goes well.*

Thanks for your time and insight. I tried reading the FAQ's but the rifle links all would not load.*
Tight Groups all, and I look forward to being part of the discussions around this niche of the internet.*
God Bless.
Demolitionman

 

[strike33]

i would recommend a used remington 700 s/a. checkout bugholes.com for in stock barrels and mcmillan stocks. thirdgenerationshootingsupply.com also has a good supply of stocks and other supplies as well.
If your sticking to bench shooting there is no need for a DBM, so a BDL inlet and floor plate will suffice.
you could always start with remington 700 5R in 308 as a base and then upgrade in the future, I would recommend the 5R over the 700P.
If you go with a custom rebarrel and stock you will end up over the 1,300 but in the long run its a good investment.
Best of luck

 

[Masked]

I was originally facing the same dilemma but, went with a Savage over the 700.

The sole reason for my decision was the ease of changing calibers within 15 minutes and no need to visit a gunsmith.

I'd suggest buying the parts separately.

Get a Bartlein/Kreiger barrel, Savage action, Timney, Stock of your choice and you've essentially got a multi-platform rifle for about $2k...Can do whatever stock you want realistically, same goes for the barrel but, you get the point.

If down the line you want to change calibers...Just get the proper bolt head/barrel and you've now got a .223...270 ~ Whatever you want really.

IMO, the ability to change calibers is worth the small loss you'll take on resale (If you ever sell it).

 

[Hawk45]

There is just about the same support for Savage now as Remington. You can get Manners,McMillan, XLR, etc stocks for both. You can get CDI bottom metal to take AI mags. Timney, Rifle Basix, Sharp Shooter Supply make triggers if you don't like Accu-trigger. So all the parts are there to build either one. Now down the road you can order a prefit for the Savage and spin her on yourself at home with a few cheap tools. So that is a big plus in my book. I also like the floating bolt head and prefer Savages twists to Remington's for some rounds. The Remington's do have a smoother bolt throw.

So think about what you really plan to change and if a model is offered from the factory setup in stock the way you like it. I prefer a verticle grip b/c I shoot prone, as opposed to a sporter grip, so most actions get a new stock from jump, which is a factor when I order anything. In fact, sometime I'll order the stock first, then when have it order the rifle b/c the stocks take the longest to get usually.

Anyway, good luck!

 

[jdulaney]

I prefer Savage myself, like Masked said with some headspace gauges you can change calibers in a matter of minutes, bolt knobs are easy to change, look up mscott here on the hide he builds some nice ones. there is all kinds of stocks and chassis out there now for savages, im fond of manners myself. I have been using criterion barrels, because northland shooters supply usally has alot of barrels in stock. 700's are great but i like to do as much as i can myself. Hope this helps.

 

[BoilerUP]

I'm a Savage guy. Get a good stock, a Criterion barrel, an action with Accutrigger or a Rifle Basix SAV-1, throw it together yourself and you'll have a rig capable of half-MOA or better accuracy.

Savage actions and donor rifles tend to cost a fair bit less than 700s; flip side is their value at resale is lower too. Hang onto it and you don't have to worry, and often the value is higher parting out a Savage than selling it whole.

That said, the Rem-Age conversion truly is the best of both worlds...all the aftermarket of the 700 with the convenience of Savage's DIY barrel swaps via barrel nut.

 

[demolitionman]

Wow, great informative replies guys. Soon as I get out of this Komatsu and get home, I'm going to look up places and start piecing together a Savage action, to a Criterion barrel and find me a stock that will be compatible and useful for both prone and bench duty. I'm really liking the idea of the threaded savage action and it's versatility and ease of assembly especially since i have no gunsmith to speak of. Like Masked and JDulaney said themselves, I too am in the mind of wanting to do as much of the work in my own house without having to ship it out for machine work. I guess at this point, Savage it is. Now tonight I'm gonna get my whole list of tools I need for barrel assembly as well as all other misc. Hardware. I'll check back in here tonight when I have a keyboard and not an iPhone to start punching out some more details! Rock on!

 

[turbo54]

If it were me, I'd get a Savage 12 LRP in either 6.5CM or 260. For ~$900, not only can nothing else TOUCH it, nothing will get close. Comes with a nice heavy, fluted 26" barrel, a high quality stock, and a DBM, as well as the target action and target accutrigger.


I know, it's not a 308...

So buy a CBI 308 barrel for it.

 

[JWV]

If it were me, I'd get a Savage 12 LRP in either 6.5CM or 260. For ~$900, not only can nothing else TOUCH it, nothing will get close. Comes with a nice heavy, fluted 26" barrel, a high quality stock, and a DBM, as well as the target action and target accutrigger.


I know, it's not a 308...

So buy a CBI 308 barrel for it.

I agree with turbo. It is a heck of a lot of rifle for 900-1000 bucks. The target action alone retails for 450-525. Then with the HS-precision stock, target accu-trigger, which is much nicer than other accutriggers, and good heavy barrel. I have heard nothing but good. Also, Savage CS is top notch. Slap a CBI on there and it will be completely capable of match competition, as if it wasn't in stock form.

 

[demolitionman]

If it were me, I'd get a Savage 12 LRP in either 6.5CM or 260. For ~$900, not only can nothing else TOUCH it, nothing will get close. Comes with a nice heavy, fluted 26" barrel, a high quality stock, and a DBM, as well as the target action and target accutrigger.


I know, it's not a 308...

So buy a CBI 308 barrel for it.

I like the way you think! Say I buy an LRP in 6.5 CREED, to convert it to .308, is it simple as just a barrel swap, or will I have to track down some action or bolt parts? Of course I realize the headspace will need adjusted and they make tools to facilitate in that right? The LRP is single shot right? Which is fine! Just wanna make sure if inwent that route I wouldn't need a magazine kit.

 

[demolitionman]

I agree with turbo. It is a heck of a lot of rifle for 900-1000 bucks. The target action alone retails for 450-525. Then with the HS-precision stock, target accu-trigger, which is much nicer than other accutriggers, and good heavy barrel. I have heard nothing but good. Also, Savage CS is top notch. Slap a CBI on there and it will be completely capable of match competition, as if it wasn't in stock form.

What do you mean Savage CS is top notch? Customer Service? I have heard rumor Savage is no longer equipping their rifles with the HS stock, and it's some knock off now that isn't shown on savagearms. I freaking love the accutrigger, although I've looked at over 10 different savages in the lgs's and never seen a red one yet. I like the thought of going the route or the LRP and rebarreling with something nice in .308.

 

[turbo54]

I like the way you think! Say I buy an LRP in 6.5 CREED, to convert it to .308, is it simple as just a barrel swap, or will I have to track down some action or bolt parts? Of course I realize the headspace will need adjusted and they make tools to facilitate in that right? The LRP is single shot right? Which is fine! Just wanna make sure if inwent that route I wouldn't need a magazine kit.

Starting with the LRP in 6.5CM, to run 308 you'd need:

A 308 barrel
A 243/260/7-08/308 HS gage
Barrel nut wrench
action wrench
6.5CM HS gage (for switching back to 6.5CM)

No other changes whatsoever.

If you got the LRP in 260, you'd save the $30 because you wouldn't need 2 HS gages.

The LRP has a detachable box mag.

It's a sweet setup, ESPECIALLY for the price.

 

[demolitionman]

I agree with turbo. It is a heck of a lot of rifle for 900-1000 bucks. The target action alone retails for 450-525. Then with the HS-precision stock, target accu-trigger, which is much nicer than other accutriggers, and good heavy barrel. I have heard nothing but good. Also, Savage CS is top notch. Slap a CBI on there and it will be completely capable of match competition, as if it wasn't in stock form.

What do you mean Savage CS is top notch? Customer Service? I have heard rumor Savage is no longer equipping their rifles with the HS stock, and it's some knock off now that isn't shown on savagearms. I freaking love the accutrigger, although I've looked at over 10 different savages in the lgs's and never seen a red one yet. I like the thought of going the route of the LRP and rebarreling with something nice in .308.

 

[demolitionman]

Starting with the LRP in 6.5CM, to run 308 you'd need:

A 308 barrel
A 243/260/7-08/308 HS gage
Barrel nut wrench
action wrench
6.5CM HS gage (for switching back to 6.5CM)

No other changes whatsoever.

If you got the LRP in 260, you'd save the $30 because you wouldn't need 2 HS gages.

The LRP has a detachable box mag.

It's a sweet setup, ESPECIALLY for the price.

I'm calling my lgs now....note taken on the .260 chamber and hs gauges. THANKS

 

[demolitionman]

I've perused the savage arms website.....looks like neither the .260 nor the 6.5 Creed are available in the LRP chassis anymore..just the 6normaBR. Am I missing something?

 

[BoilerUP]

I've perused the savage arms website.....looks like neither the .260 nor the 6.5 Creed are available in the LRP chassis anymore..just the 6normaBR. Am I missing something?

http://www.savagearms.com/firearms/model/12LRP

Here's a 6.5 Creedmoor..the 260 is out of stock
http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/cPath/1050/products_id/71097

 

[demolitionman]

http://www.savagearms.com/firearms/model/12LRP

Here's a 6.5 Creedmoor..the 260 is out of stock
http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/cPath/1050/products_id/71097

Great post. Thanks for that. Locally I can have it shipped close by. Unfortunately, I think that's the same gun someone just ordered saying Savage now replaces the HS Precision stocks with their Acustock. I gotta get on the horn...I was on hold for 20 minutes for my lgs, then had to go.

 

[jsthntn247]

I went with the 700 and had a budget of 2,000. Thought I was gonna be able to keep smithing fees around 400. Well, that didn't happen and I'm up to 2900 now. Go savage and save some coin.

 

[demolitionman]

I just found a 6.5 Creedmore 12LRP at a local shop. They said they may be able to order it in the .260 in if I want that. This is the route I'm going for sure. I'm getting .260 if they can get it, if not, I'm going to run the LRP 6.5 Creedmore hard against my buddies .308 Remy. If it hangs well with his .308 I'll hold off for a little while on the .308 I guess. I'm reading great things about the cartridge, and it seems very conducive to a great handloading case. I'm kinda stressed about finding ammunition and or brass for either .260 or 6.5. The .260 looks a bunch cheaper to shoot.

Hey guys, about the HEADSPACING. The only difference in the 6.5 and the .260 actions in the Savage LRP if I go to swap to a .308 barrel, is simply just buying 2 gauges versus buying one gauge? Wow, this is an interesting turn of events for me, looks like I'll be shooting a typical off the shelf LRP chambered in, however temporarily, a kinda "wildcat" cartridge....at least it seems wildcat to me. I'm liking how the BC looks with both .260 and 6.5, those things scream and I'm sure they eat barrels too !

 

[JB02]

You will not be able to shoot the difference between 6.5 CM and 260 Rem. Both are good. I would like you to show me how 260 match ammo is cheaper than 6.5 CM match ammo (handloading doesn't count) ... The edge 260 has on 6.5 CM is that you can get Lapua Brass for it. The edge 6.5 CM has is that relatively low cost factory ammo is available (or at least it used to be before all the retardedness happened).

FYI, Southwestammunition.com makes 260 ammo. $2.50 per round. Hornady 6.5 CM 140 Amax is ~ $1.30 per round.

 

[demolitionman]

Im not real familiar with the 6mm stuff. LCDR, let me ask you this: do you think overall the 6.5 Creedmore is going to be hard to find as far as AMMO and brass goes compared to the .260? It's not a big concern, as I think I may rebarrel soon to .308, but will most likely end up with another rig. One for each caliber. I just wonder, I'm ordering my SAVAGE LRP tommorow after work and will be getting either .260 or 6.5 Creedmore whatever is available. I've heard the 6.5creed is one of the easiest for reloading.

 

[turbo54]

The 260 and 6.5cm are SO similar it surprises me Savage offers both. You truly can't go wrong with either. It is nonsensical to even argue about them. The fact you can have the 6.5 NOW vs the 260 "later" is as good a reason to choose it, as any.

I'm already tooled up for 260, so personally, it would be my pick. Factory ammo is more available for the Creed, but for hand loading, the 260 has more flexibility.

Again, its 6 of one and a half dozen of the other.

Lastly: the 260 and 6.5 creed make a 308 look like the fat kid at the track meet. Plus, they don't "eat" barrels.

 

[demolitionman]

The 260 and 6.5cm are SO similar it surprises me Savage offers both. You truly can't go wrong with either. It is nonsensical to even argue about them. The fact you can have the 6.5 NOW vs the 260 "later" is as good a reason to choose it, as any.

I'm already tooled up for 260, so personally, it would be my pick. Factory ammo is more available for the Creed, but for hand loading, the 260 has more flexibility.

Again, its 6 of one and a half dozen of the other.

Lastly: the 260 and 6.5 creed make a 308 look like the fat kid at the track meet. Plus, they don't "eat" barrels.

Turbo, right on right on. I will get whichever they have in stock, and hell, that 6.5Creed gives me something to play with if I ever get a .308 AR platform as well....or am I confusing it with the Grendel?....anyways not to get sidetracked, I'm totally pumped right now. Hopefully my travels take me by the LGS tommorow and I'll get that LRP ordered up or transferred by lunchtime! I'll let you know. Cheers!

 

[JB02]

Turbo, right on right on. I will get whichever they have in stock, and hell, that 6.5Creed gives me something to play with if I ever get a .308 AR platform as well....or am I confusing it with the Grendel?....anyways not to get sidetracked, I'm totally pumped right now. Hopefully my travels take me by the LGS tommorow and I'll get that LRP ordered up or transferred by lunchtime! I'll let you know. Cheers!

Unless you plan on handloading I would go with the 6.5 CM. Once this ammunition bubble pops it will be easy to get. Ditto for 308 win. If if you did handload, there really isn't much difference between the two (you can form 260 brass from 308 or 243 cases or buy 260 Lapua brass; Hornady prints its reloading recipe on the box). In full disclosure, I'm having a custom rifle built in 6.5 CM, but it was really challenging deciding between the two (yes, I handload).

 

[demolitionman]

I ordered a SAVAGE LRP in 6.5 Creedmoor today! They could give me absolutely NO expectation on when it will be coming in, so until its in, I'm going to just be making weekly 100 dollar payment kinda like a layaway. Here is what I find interesting about the special order: The only LRP they could get their hands on was an all blue-d smooth barrel. The only LRP's in 6.5 Creedmoor I've ever seen are stainless. Either way, I'm cool with it. I picked up the only two boxes of 6.5 Creed they had on the shelf which were 120 Amax's. I joked with the owner of the shop saying I might rebarrel it to .308 in the future and he laughed, looked straight at me, and said "soon as you shoot that next to your buddies .308, you'll know you made the right choice". Maybe it's a sales pitch, but he thought it was awesome that I had any interest in the 6.5 Creed, as he just went on and on about how great his is. Have any of you seen an LRP with the HS Precision Stock and a blue'd barrel? It's what I have coming!

**First things first. Where do you all reccomend I buy factory 6.5 ammunition online? Any loads I should stock up on to see what it likes best when I go to zero her in until I can handload for her?

 

[JB02]

Good choice. While you're waiting on it, think about a good scope to put on it. I recommend this Weaver "Grand Slam" as a starter:http://www.midwayusa.com/product/59...mm-1-10-mil-adjustments-mil-dot-reticle-matte

Midway also has a Vortex Viper HS mildot 5-15 that you can get during hunting season: http://www.midwayusa.com/product/18...us-1-10-mil-adjustments-mil-dot-reticle-matte

Personally, I'm a Vortex fan. They are good value, they work, and they have an unbeatable warranty. If you're in the mood for something mid range, check out the Viper PST line. Front focal plane scopes have advantages, but they are not essential. For something top notch, check out the Razor. The SWFA 5-20 HD and the Bushnell 3-21 are good choices too.

Don't skimp on rings and bases.

 

[demolitionman]

Don't skimp on rings and bases.

I was looking at a Vortex VIPER 6.5x20x50 tonight as well. It looked sharp, but had a BDC crosshair of sorts and I'm wanting a fine crosshair mildot style. I'm not so sure I'm going to go for a FFP just yet. I have alot of reloading gear to get settled and need to get my learn on with that. In the meantime, any places to buy 6.5creed 140 Grain facttory loads would be great info ! Thanks LCDR.

 

[Rlbol]

Nice choice
12lrp seems like a very nice rifle! I think savage just didn't make enough!

 

[JB02]

[MENTION=80598]demolitionman[/MENTION], you can shop for ammo online here: http://ammoseek.com/ I think Cabela's has some in stock.

BDC is a hunting reticle. They are fine, but probably not what you're looking for. I was suggesting the "PST" line, which come in 1-4, 2.5-10, 4-16, and 6-24. They have SFP and FFP variants (except the 2.5-10). They pop up for sale here on sniper's hide frequently. Whatever you get, my advice to you is to make sure the turrets and reticle are consistent ... don't get MOA turrets with a mildot or MRAD reticle. It doesn't really matter if you use MOA or mils, but IMO mils are more intuitive and user friendly.

 

[Randoman5]

What's the difference between the 12 and the model 10? Do they fit in the same stocks? Do they use the same replacement barrels? How much would a good .308 barrel run?

I've been debating a similar setup and desire the ability to run .308 or 6.5 creedmoor.

 

[korykhunter]

If Savage interests you I believe ershaw uses Savage actions. You can pick your barrel contour, twist, length and other options. Good luck in your search.

 

[Rlbol]

Model 12 is there target action. Smaller port stiffer action as well as large shank barrel.
i would take a 260 over a 308 any day

 

[demolitionman]

What's the difference between the 12 and the model 10? Do they fit in the same stocks? Do they use the same replacement barrels? How much would a good .308 barrel run?

I've been debating a similar setup and desire the ability to run .308 or 6.5 creedmoor.

Far as I know, the 10's are classified as Police/Tactical style rifles with a more basic stock and have the standard accutrigger and have shorter barrels up to 24" if I remember correct. The Model 12's are their "varminter" or "bench" models, they come in longer barrels (26") the lrp or lrpv 12's have the lighter pull target style acutrigger and are available in different twist rates on some models. There are others on this forum that can tell you more.

 

[demolitionman]

[MENTION=80598]demolitionman[/MENTION], you can shop for ammo online here: http://ammoseek.com/ I think Cabela's has some in stock.

They only have 120g VMAX in. I'm looking hard for the 140 grain loads from Hornady as well. Looks like those are on average grouping better than the 120 in most LRP's. Thanks again LCDR! Off to ammoseek I go.....

 

[thickstrings]

http://coppercreekammo.com/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=48&zenid=2d48ffd8ea5d69ca50ec77f5217e5a3c I just received 3 boxes yesterday.....He has all the flavors.....I am particular to the 130 vld's, but he has the 140's as well. Nice guy and great service. Top notch company........

 

[demolitionman]

http://coppercreekammo.com/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=48&zenid=2d48ffd8ea5d69ca50ec77f5217e5a3c I just received 3 boxes yesterday.....He has all the flavors.....I am particular to the 130 vld's, but he has the 140's as well. Nice guy and great service. Top notch company........

Cool. Never heard of them! Looks like they are handloading all the right recipes. I didn't see original factory Hornady Vmax140's but I did see their equivalent load. If I can't scratch up some factory loads I'll order some copper creek up. Thanks!