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Garand Reloading

Blue Streak

Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
Mar 27, 2010
182
0
56
KY via Oklahoma
I need some help reloading my Garand and my M1A, specifically resizing the brass.

I typically set my resizing die up so that my press "cams" over and I leave it at that. I have had no problems with this set up and my rifles run just fine. But, I'm wondering if I'm doing this incorrectly and sacrificing brass life and accuracy.

Should I be measuring the headspace of fired brass and only size the shoulder a couple thou? I think by "cramming" my press over that I'm bumping the shoulder back a lot more than a couple thou.
 
Get a hornady headspace guage or something similar. You'll know exactly how much your sizing your brass once you learn to use it. It's simple and worth the $$$.
 
For measuring proper headspace for brass fired through a gas gun I have found the RCBS Precision Mic to work the best. Brass tends to get deformed on extraction and the RCBS will provide accurate measurement regardless. I would recommend setting the shoulder back between .003 and .005 for gas guns. I would also recommend getting a case gauge as a quick way to check sized brass. The main thing you are trying to achieve is reliable cycling. For the Garand, I would recommend uniforming the primer pockets to achieve proper and consistent primer seating depth. For my Garand, I like 47 gr. of IMR 4895 behind 150 bullets with CCI 34 primers.
 
Thanks for the comments.

I not had any reliability issues with just letting my press cam over but I think I'm probably setting the shoulder back too far,...in the .013 - .010 range,...which I'm sure is over working my brass and probably having a negative affect on accuracy. Would this have a negative affect on accuracy?
 
Oversizing brass will shorten its life and can affect accuracy. The Garand is not known for having a strong bolt camming cycle, so be sure to set the shoulder back a few thousandths. IIRC military semi auto chambers are known to be cut a little on the big side to aid the extraction and feeding cycle, so you should also check the brass for base growth. Clean the chamber, resize your brass, open the bolt and hold the rifle muzzle down. Drop sized cases in and shake vertically to see if the case is free in the chamber or if it is binding. If it is, you may need "small base" dies.

As far as shoulder set back is concerned, strip the bolt (remove the op rod, the bolt, then remove the extractor and ejector) and try to manually close the stripped bolt on a sized case. If any effort is required, the case is inadequately sized (too big). You don't want to make a Garand work to close the bolt, this is very hard on the op rod. If you do adjust your dies for this rifle, then the ammo is for this rifle.
 
I set up my dies for the Garand based on a N/M technique that is very old.

I disassemble my bolt so there are no internals, then assemble the stripped bolt and oprod (properly lubed) on the bare barreled action.

I take an unresized, fired case, insert it completely into the chamber by hand, and then tilt the rifle muzzle straight down. The bolt should slide closed. If the bolt can be rotated any further by hand, or not rotated fully closed at all, the case is large/long enough to use for testing the die setup.

I set the dies up first so the 'resized' case does not allow any further bolt rotation, this indicates that there is room for improvement.

I then adjust the die to resize a smidge further at a time, until the bolt rotates further than before, after the case is resized.

The resizing die is adjusted precisely enough when rifle, held about 30 degree muzzle down from horizontal, will just barely close the bolt fully on the resized case, with no other influence besides basic gravity at work. Pushing the right hand bolt lug further will produce no additional bolt rotation, it is against the stop completely on its own.

If you really want to gild the lily, you can stop adjusting when the R/H bolt lug has just a small discernible additional rotation to the stop under light finger pressure.

This establishes something similar to the small degree of bolt closure drag that is desirable with a bolt rifle; but I will not guarantee that feed and function will be ideal with the Garand at this adjustment

Essentially, you are taking up the stacking tolerances in the bolt/oprod/receiver system. You are taking up the available slop without imposing any preload against the bolt face. You would have to try it and see how well it functions this way.

The Garand, and most other semi's, are often given a bad rep regarding diminished case life, because a lot of folks overly resize their brass.

Do it this way, and keep the loads conservative, and you could find your Garand yields just as much case life as a properly reloaded bolt rifle.

My Garand load is the HDY 3037 150gr .308 FMJBT W/C, 50.0gr of IMR-4064, and the CCI-200 assembled in Remington Brass.

I use a basic Redding 2-die setup, loaded progressively on a Dillon RL-550B, no charge weight checking beyond initial setup of the measure. The goal here is to use whatever the setup will consistently produce, the Garand is not sensitive enough to such minor charge weight variances to warrant more precision.

Accurate, true to the sights increments, and ample yet conservatively stoked for the Garand. I do not believe the Garand is anything but an effective and robust rifle when properly fed, but I also prefer to keep it restrained to a reasonable length leash with a 150gr bullet, and to confine its primary distance to 600-800yd.

Beyond there, I like a robust .280 Rem Bolt Gun with a 150gr Nosler BT; also conservatively adequate. The '06 case capacity and a 150gr projectile is my idea of an ideal maximum energy package, with the bore diameter reduced to 7mm/.284" for distances beyond 800yd. All of my '06 based case capacity rifles employ some form of energy absorbing recoil pad, including my Garand.

Greg
 
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Greg has the most accurate way of checking the brass for your Garand.

On your M-1A, to get a pretty accurate way to get your brass measured form your chamber is to turn the gas spindle off and fire 5-10 rounds and cycle the action manually.
The M-1A is pretty rough on the brass in the extraction/ejection process and actually blow the cases out on ejection, giving you false readings. You can then measure the shoulder of the cases fired with the gas off with your Hornady gauge and set your die to bump the shoulder .003".005".
 
Sorry for what might be a stupid question but how do you turn the gas system off? What Gas Spindle ? lol I have a old Super Match, it's been a few years since Iv'e shot it but I don't recall it having adjustment on the gas system.
Thanks in adavnce
Pete

Greg has the most accurate way of checking the brass for your Garand.

On your M-1A, to get a pretty accurate way to get your brass measured form your chamber is to turn the gas spindle off and fire 5-10 rounds and cycle the action manually.
The M-1A is pretty rough on the brass in the extraction/ejection process and actually blow the cases out on ejection, giving you false readings. You can then measure the shoulder of the cases fired with the gas off with your Hornady gauge and set your die to bump the shoulder .003".005".
 
Sorry for what might be a stupid question but how do you turn the gas system off? What Gas Spindle ? lol I have a old Super Match, it's been a few years since Iv'e shot it but I don't recall it having adjustment on the gas system.
Thanks in adavnce
Pete

You just never looked for it. It's there. See Figures #37-41 in this article. Shows you how to turn the gas on or off. http://www.surplusrifle.com/m14m1a/rifledisassembly/index.asp
 
Blue Streak,

It sounds as though you were setting the shoulders back too far, and yes, a case gage is the only way to fly for setting dies up. Especially true when dealing with gas guns. You want to make sure that you're setting those shoulders back at least .003" or more, out to a max of around .006". As to brass life, however, that's not really that much of an issue. I hate to be the bearer of bad news here, but you need to toss your cases after the third cycling through a Garand. Ditto for an M1A or M14. They're first and foremost combat rifles, made to function reliably in all conditions. I can assure you John Garand never lost a moment's sleep concerning himself with case life or the reloadability of brass fired in his rifles. As a result, both of these guns are brutally, horribly, viciously hard on brass. Some folks are perfectly willing to go four firings, I suggest three, but anything beyond this is just asking for trouble. We're all issued two eyes and ten fingers, and trying to save a few bucks on brass is a foolish way to gamble them, if you get my drift.

Shoot safe.
 
ksthoms,..yes I'm with you,..I toss it after 3 - 4 firings.

I think I am pushing the should back too far,....can that be a safety issue and / or an accuracy issue?
 
Blue Streak,

Unless you're really doing something drastic, you shouldn't really have too much of a safety issue here with pushing the shoulder back, but it's definately not ideal. Not by any means. Use the case gages, and I promise you, they'll save yoiu a lot of frustration. You want the shoulders bumper at least .003". Service guns aren't like your bolt guns, and they do indeed need a different approach when reloading for them. You WANT that extra room, just to make sure that there's no issues with their chambering smoothly and effortlessly. Ideally, you want to stop that set-back at not over about .006". That's as far as you really want it to go, and the only way to know that for sure is to measure with the gages. Technically, accuracy can be impacted here, but not likely to the point that you'll be able to see it with a Service Rifle. An extremely accurate bolt gun, possibly, but not at all likely with a gas gun. At the very least, you'd have to be talking an exceptionally accurate, match-built, competitive Service Rifle, and even then, one that's in top notch condition to see anything measureable on target from headspace issues alone.
 
Garand/M14/M1A's beat up brass several ways.

First, they extract very quickly after the firing pressure cycle, which may catch the brass before it has completed shrinking back down from its expanded condition. This can accentuate the stretch that can bring case head separations, and also place excess stress at the case rim where the extractor applies its force.

Excess headspace can combine case expansion with resizing to create internal rings where the brass is substantially thinner, just above the extractor groove and internal case wall taper, contributing to accelerated case head separation.

They may also bash the brass against the Oprod hump during ejection, denting case mouths and shoulders.

Employing propellants at the faster end of the burn rate selection range can provide lower port pressures, which can, in turn, reduce internal case pressures and operating forces at the extraction stage of the operating cycle. This is desirable.

Greg