• Watch Out for Scammers!

    We've now added a color code for all accounts. Orange accounts are new members, Blue are full members, and Green are Supporters. If you get a message about a sale from an orange account, make sure you pay attention before sending any money!

  • The site has been updated!

    If you notice any issues, please let us know below!

    VIEW THREAD

Statement from Kestrel. Battery corrosion. Must Read.

Christopher Rance

CR2 Shooting Solutions
Full Member
Minuteman
Dear Snipers Hide Members,

We have reviewed the threads relating to instances of battery corrosion in our Kestrel units and I am writing to outline what we know here at Kestrel and the actions we are taking in response to the completely understandable frustration around this issue. We recognize that a Kestrel ballistics meter is a big investment for each of you, and that having a $600 investment destroyed by $2 worth of batteries, as one member succinctly put it, is really upsetting.

All alkaline batteries are prone to leaking potassium hydroxide, particularly as they near full discharge. As batteries discharge, they release a small amount of hydrogen gas, which exerts pressure inside the battery and may eventually rupture its seals. Once a leak has occurred, the potassium hydroxide and carbon dioxide from the air form potassium carbonate crystals that grow and follow along the metal electrodes to the circuit board, causing oxidation of the circuit and components. Damage caused by leaking batteries is often irreversible, as some of you have unfortunately learned. If caught early, it is sometimes possible to clean the corrosion and restore the unit, and instructions for doing this will be posted here. We have tested many brands and manufacturers of batteries, including the various “pro” and industrial varieties, and have seen no difference in the rate of leakage. A small percentage will leak – sometimes in storage, but usually in operation. (We have definitely observed that the “no-name” batteries are much worse, which is why we ship only with name brand and try to source American made as well.) The AAA cells which can be counted on not to leak are lithium AAA cells. This is due both to chemistry, and to the fact that lithium is quite toxic so these batteries are constructed with a much high level of sealing. So,

ACTION 1: Today I directed that we immediately begin shipping all Kestrel ballistics meters with only lithium AAA batteries. Although these batteries are roughly eight times the cost of standard AAA’s, we are going to absorb this cost difference and not change the price of the Kestrel ballistics meters.

Despite the fact that alkaline batteries are prone to leakage, and manufacturers uniformly do not cover damage by leaking batteries (even for substantially more expensive items, like high-end cameras), it is clear to me that we need to do more to alleviate the financial pain caused by this problem. Accordingly,

ACTION 2: I have directed that we replace battery-corrosion damaged Kestrel ballistics meters returned to NK at a heavily discounted price of $279 for a non-Bluetooth unit and $333 for a Bluetooth unit. This price is a 55% discount off of retail and represents our actual manufacturing cost on the replacement unit. This price is only available when the unit is returned to NK and cannot be repaired by our staff.

Another Snipers Hide member also correctly pointed out that there is no discussion of battery corrosion prevention in the instruction manual. This is true.

ACTION 3: We will be adding a detailed statement to the user manual and our website providing guidelines on avoiding battery corrosion damage from alkaline batteries. A copy of this statement will also be added to this forum for user reference. Note, these are good guidelines for ANY product that uses alkaline batteries, not just a Kestrel meter.

We have already been gathering and evaluating data surrounding possible additional causes of this problem. All Kestrel meters function the same with respect to logging data while off, and there does not seem to be a measurable trend with respect to any model having this problem more than others. However, the sniper community is fairly unique in the information offered by this forum, so I have challenged our engineers to run further tests and brainstorm root cause with the additional information posted here.

ACTION 4: We will publish follow up information on the results of these tests as soon as they are completed.

We appreciate the information and feedback we get from the members of this forum. I hope these actions reassure the members that we at Kestrel do not ignore this, or any other reliability or product improvement suggestion we receive from our customers. We will continue to work to mitigate this issue as much as possible now and in the future. In the meantime, feel free to email me directly with problems or suggestions at [email protected].

Sincerely
Alix James, CEO

=====================================

Preventing Battery Leakage and Corrosion
Your Kestrel meter is shipped with two high-quality alkaline AAA batteries. All alkaline batteries are prone to leaking potassium hydroxide, particularly as they near full discharge. As batteries discharge, they release a small amount of hydrogen gas, which exerts pressure inside the battery and may eventually rupture its seals. Once a leak has occurred, the potassium hydroxide and carbon dioxide from the air form potassium carbonate crystals that grow and follow along the metal electrodes to the circuit board, causing oxidation of the circuit and components. Damage caused by leaking batteries is often irreversible, and is NOT covered under the Kestrel warranty. Therefore, it is important to take these steps to reduce the likelihood of a battery leak and resulting corrosion and damage:

· Use US-made, name-brand batteries wherever possible. Do not mix brands of batteries.
· Do not mix batteries of different ages or usage – replace both batteries at the same time with new batteries that have not reached their expiration date.
· Remove batteries for long-term storage (more than one month of non-use). Even when powered down, the Kestrel continues to log data and slowly discharge the batteries.
· To avoid fully discharging your batteries, try to change your batteries when below 20% capacity.
· Inspect your batteries occasionally (at least every three months) and remove immediately if you notice ANY moisture or white crystalline material at either end.
· Always store your Kestrel meter within the specified temperature limits: -22.0 °F to 140.0 °F | -30.0 °C to 60.0 °C. Be particularly careful not to leave a Kestrel meter with batteries installed inside a hot car in the summer.
· Consider using Lithium AAA cells which are virtually leak proof and provide up to 50% additional capacity in Bluetooth equipped models as well as improved cold weather performance.

If you notice you have a leaking battery, be careful not to touch it with your bare skin or allow it to come in contact with your eyes as the leaking material is very caustic. Remove and dispose of both batteries. If possible, loosen and vacuum out any white powder. DO NOT BLOW INTO THE COMPARTMENT TO REMOVE THE POWDER – it can cause eye or skin damage and will be driven further inside the unit. You may attempt to use a cotton swab moistened with white vinegar to clean the contacts and gently swab out the battery compartment. Do not exert any force against the contacts inside the battery compartment or you may bend or break them. Allow the battery compartment to dry completely and try installing fresh batteries. If your unit powers up – great! If not, you may contract Kestrel Support to inquire about our Customer Loyalty Trade-In Program which provides a significant discount towards a replacement Kestrel meter.
 
Last edited:
This progress, I am glad to see. Thank you Sniper for bringing this to Ms. James attention. And thank you Ms. James, for addressing the issue.

There are many here, who appreciate it.

--Now if there were a way to turn the device 'Off-Off', instead of just 'Off', then there wouldn't be a constant drain on the batteries, to which there wouldn't be a continuous threat upon them. Of any brand.

And yes, "Off-Off" now IS, a technical term. HA. (OCD Works For Me :) )
 
Last edited:
OP, Thanks very much. I dont yet own a Kestrel meter but I plan on buying one in the future. I was honestly waiting because I was a little nervous about buying one because of these battery issues that i have been hearing about. Im glad to see it being fixed. The lithium batteries might be more expensive but if that means the batt leakage wont happen, to me its well worth it. This thread just goes to show the awesome service that you give to your customers. Thanks again.
Ha Ha, Crap, now I need to buy one!!
 
Checking mine now. Didn't know that tidbit on lithium batts. Thanks for the heads up! Now that's a good to go company!
 
That's a phukin stand up thing for kestrel to do. After reading this, I can assure you that I will only purchase Kestrel.

Everyone has problems, it's how you handle them is what defines you.

Thanks for going the extra mile.

Cheers,
Breeze
 
After thinking about this a bit I have to say that they need to redesign the battery compartment and should take care of any and all customers having this problem with a brand new unit. Did not ship originally with lithium batteries and knew there was a problem.
 
Last edited:
I just got a Kestrel a month ago and after reading the OP's post, my hat is off to you sir...and I will be installing lithium batteries tomorrow.
 
Kestrel reacting this fast and in this manner assures me of the commitment to a quality product. I won't buy from anyone else with a stand up warantee and customer service like this.
 
"manufacturers uniformly do not cover damage by leaking batteries (even for substantially more expensive items, like high-end cameras)"

What do the policies of other manufacturers have to do with consumers, aka snipershide? So Alix, I respectfully ask do you believe your above quoted statement with regards to your company's products which are geared towards a specific consumer limited in demographic composition (gender majority, income level, age, etc...) outside of military contracts; a broad industry comparison sweetened by allowing the already misfortunate consumer to have the ability to purchase another unit regardless of discount as an applicable solution?

I knew there was something more than just your quote that rubbed me the wrong way (reason for this edit) and that's your offer to purchase another unit at your company's cost. In effect, you already collected the profit from the previous purchase and unwilling to relinquish any of the company gain. By then offering another unit at cost is just a slap in the face to the consumer.

Why not share in the cost and just replace their units for free? Make the consumer whole and the small loss, if at all any to your company, would speak volumes about you as a CEO.
 
Last edited:
Nice to see a company standing for their customers and making things right. After all the reading on bad gunsmiths and the like, its nice to see something good happen for a change. Maybe I'll deal with Kestrel in the future, they're at the top of my list now.
 
Just shows that NK cares and will improve their customer based support of their product. Two thumbs up to you! I use Lithium AAA's on my Kestrel with Atrag ever since I bought the awesome product. Keep up the good work!
 
I met Alix and the rest of the Kestrel crew at SHOT this year. They all seemed to be very honest good people. When I saw this battery issue surface recently I thought that as soon as Alix and her engineers caught wind of this they'd be all over it....all over it like a Kardashian on a black dude.

Thanks Alix for the response and the very quick action taken. I'm also a dealer for your product so this gives me more confidence in offering these great units.
 
Great to see Kestrel taking action in response to the concerns voiced here on the Hide.

However...


ACTION 2: I have directed that we replace battery-corrosion damaged Kestrel ballistics meters returned to NK at a heavily discounted price of $279 for a non-Bluetooth unit and $333 for a Bluetooth unit. This price is a 55% discount off of retail and represents our actual manufacturing cost on the replacement unit. This price is only available when the unit is returned to NK and cannot be repaired by our staff.

Another Snipers Hide member also correctly pointed out that there is no discussion of battery corrosion prevention in the instruction manual. This is true.

Surely, if a manufacturer knows that there is a danger of leakage using a specific type of batteries but still goes ahead and fits said batteries as standard, from-the-factory specification WITHOUT providing any warning as to the possible damage it may cause....the manufacturer has full liability for the damage caused, even if the batteries are from somebody else?

Giving a chemistry lesson and saying nobody else does it....it's just damage limitiation.

If the problem is not widespread (as some previous posts have implied) I would see the free replacement of affected units as a fantastic opportunity for the company to score a major kudos/marketing/CS win with the shooting comminity it's products serve?

ACTION 1: Today I directed that we immediately begin shipping all Kestrel ballistics meters with only lithium AAA batteries. Although these batteries are roughly eight times the cost of standard AAA’s, we are going to absorb this cost difference and not change the price of the Kestrel ballistics meters.

Great for those who have yet to buy.

But let's not lose sight of the fact that a manufacturers cost prices are (or at least should be!) significantly lower than retail prices. IME, manufacturers costs are anywhere between 50% and 20% of actual retail prices

...so this is not a big deal on a couple of batteries per unit that costs up to $600 a pop. Just an easy fix that could/should have been done a long time ago?


ACTION 3: We will be adding a detailed statement to the user manual and our website providing guidelines on avoiding battery corrosion damage from alkaline batteries. A copy of this statement will also be added to this forum for user reference. Note, these are good guidelines for ANY product that uses alkaline batteries, not just a Kestrel meter.

Another very simple and easy-to-do fix. I'm sure some people will ask why has it taken so long?

On the whole a positive move - great to see a company listening to concerns and acting (albeit somewhat late?)

I'll certainly look at Kestrel now this appears to have been addressed.
 
Last edited:
It makes me feel very good to see a company doing its best to work "with" the consumer, instead of "around" the consumer. Any company that is willing to post on open forums and allow people to say what they want about their products, such as this one, will get my business over the others. I am in Afghanistan right now and my snipers use Kestrels everytime we go on mission or to the range. They have stood the test of time and weather better than we could have ever expected. We run lithium batteries in our units because se have never seen a set of lithiums leak.

Thank you Kestrel for your excellent customer service and willingness to correct and improve your products to fit your consumer. I hate to say it, but that is a dying practice in the business world these days.

Thanks and keep it up.

Dave
 
From a third party perspective that has yet to purchase a kestrel meter this seems like a adequate solution and definetly sways me toward purchsing a company product. But, and everyone knows that everything before the "but" is just BS........For the OP of the other thread , he's still out a ton of money. In the end he is going to end up with a $1000 kestrel because of a design feature that accelerates a flawed(?) battery design.

If the Kestrels were shipped with lithiums and people were swithing to alkalines to save money, not kestrel's problem. But that isn't the case. If the manual read "do not store with a alkaline batteries", not kestrel's problem. From what I read, also not the case. Futhermore, like has already been pointed out, Kestrel's solution isn't putting them out at all for what I can only see as a mistake on thier part. They already have thier profit from the first device. I think that replacing the device for free would have been truely standup with a minimum of splitting the cost(production cost) with the consumer 50/50.

This is a solution but in my eyes, not a great one, at least for the poor guys that have already been burnt.

Just my two cents.
 
One point that seems to be missing in both threads, and seems to be missed by so many, is the CAUSE of the leaking batteries. Don't you think that the constant drain on the batteries, even while turned OFF, is the problem?

How many of ya'll unplug your appliances when you're finished using them? How many of ya'll go and drain your fuel tanks, when you park your car? None, right, because when you turn your car off, it stops using the fuel. (properly maintained, of course)

The whole issue here, is NOT the batteries. It just seems that the batteries are being used as a scapegoat, and "don't look over here, the bad people are over there" tactic. The ACTUAL ISSUE here, is the Kestrel actually needs a mode of "OFF-OFF" plainly pointed out, and selectable. Simply because not everyone needs to use the 'constant monitoring while turned off' when their Kestrel is sitting in the range bag, for the duration of the week to get out to the range next weekend, or whatever.

Yes, the Lithium batteries are a bandage for the problem, but when the problem is a broken leg to begin with, the bandage just isn't going to cut it.

And considering how small circuits are, and their components, it would take practically nothing to make an option to actually have an "OFF" setting on the device where there is actually a "CEASE AND DESIST OF ALL FUNCTION". That way, there would not be a drain on the power supply, ergo preventing an overdrain on the batteries (of any type) therefore preventing the probability of ANY AND ALL BATTERIES FROM LEAKING.

Simple, isn't it? Turn the damn thing off, and stop blaming the batteries. Because truly, the 'batteries' aren't the problem to begin with.


"These aren't the droids you're looking for,,,,, move along!"
 
Last edited:
How about using low self-discharge NiMH batteries such as the Eneloop batteries? Not sure how there design structure compares to lithium but I have not had any problems with batteries for the past 6 years in other applications.
 
ACTION 1: Today I directed that we immediately begin shipping all Kestrel ballistics meters with only lithium AAA batteries. Although these batteries are roughly eight times the cost of standard AAA’s, we are going to absorb this cost difference and not change the price of the Kestrel ballistics meters.

Energizer two pack AAA li batteries are $3.95 for two at the consumer level. I don't see how you "absorb this cost difference" makes you any kind of hero on a $800 unit. Even it you were getting the original batteries for free and had to pay retail for the replacements you would be under 1/2% of your retail cost. In the real world you will probably be under 1/4% increase in your cost. And this is likely a problem because your unit over drains the batteries and should have been designed with AA in the first place. I do not see Kestral as a hero here.

Every time one of us has to replace one of these units out of our pocket, it is going to hurt. But if this is a rare occurrence then for Kestral to replace them out of their pocket would be a small expense to them. On the other hand, if so many of these are going bad due to this issue then it is clearly a design problem. No Nikon will not replace your camera if the batteries wreck it. When is the last time you heard of that happening? Hint, for me it has been a long time.

What Kestral has done so far is damage control. I do not see this as stepping up to the plate. This is their product they should stand behind it.
 
I have had a few elec gizmos over the years ruined by cheap and/or alkaline batts. After a little research I now use LI in my higher end stuff. The batts ruined the units, not the other way around. Should they have provided info that alkalines leak? Sure. I have seen that info with other high end electronics. The other thing folks can do is stop using those shitty, 10 bucks for 50 batts, you pick up at Harbor Freight.
 
Kudos to Kestrel for finally addressing this issue. I do hope that the "brainstorming root cause" activity results in an improved circuit design with low-voltage cut-off.

How about using low self-discharge NiMH batteries such as the Eneloop batteries?

That will not address the issue, since the problem isn't self-discharge of the batteries themselves (an aspect of performance in which alkaline batteries excel) but rather over-discharge due to the unit's inability to cease drawing current when in the Off mode.

Also note that repeated discharge below 0.9V will likely cause permanent damage to NiMH cells, and in some cases may eventually cause leakage of potassium hydroxide. That would effectively put the unit at the same risk of damage from over-discharged alkaline batteries.

One point that seems to be missing in both threads, and seems to be missed by so many, is the CAUSE of the leaking batteries.

This point was not missed in the previous thread:

http://www.snipershide.com/shooting/showthread.php?t=179468&p=2386361&viewfull=1#post2386361

As an electrical engineer and designer of embedded systems, I completely agree that the unit needs to have some mechanism by which to avoid over-discharge of the batteries.
 
Good to see Kestrel addressing and taking steps to fix the problem.

With all this battery talk, what is the stance on rechargeable batteries?
 
I want to reiterate that the battery issue isn't a problem with the majority of Kestrel users. Like I have stated before in other threads, we have received only a few complaints and that is why we are here to address the issue and to establish a line of communication to better assist the customer.

Please contact myself or Alix if you want to speak with us one on one. Our lines are always open.

Again I'm sorry for the customers that have had this problem and we will do our best to come up with a resolution.
 
I want to reiterate that the battery issue isn't a problem with the majority of Kestrel users. Like I have stated before in other threads, we have received only a few complaints and that is why we are here to address the issue and to establish a line of communication to better assist the customer.

Please contact myself or Alix if you want to speak with us one on one. Our lines are always open.

Again I'm sorry for the customers that have had this problem and we will do our best to come up with a resolution.

Not a problem with the majority of users? So if 49% of them had the issue, your statement would be true.

IMO, despite the clapping and ra ra above, this is a piss poor response and customer service action.

1. You should have been supplying Quality batteries from the get go. I assume you have electrican engineers on staff, And they did not just discover this new fangled Lithium battery thingy in the last month. Complaing about a 8x cost (which is bullshit, and does not show the real dollar difference. $.10/.80 is much different than $.50/4.00. Even if your manufacturing costs went up slightly, it would protect your brand equity and not make you guys look the douchbags) is petty and I don't honestly care. You are responsible for any OEM items you supply with the unit.

2. Nothing has been said about the design issue. Most likley beacuse you want to save face and not admit to the issue. Electrical engineers and people who work in the electronics industry have already identified one of the reasons that they are corroding. Lithium batteries are treating the symtoms not the root cause (Love me some Lean Six and TOC). Redesign the hardware or software to fix this issue. This would reduce the ammount of batteries leaking from overcharge and less people complaing means more people buying.

3. Your offer to replace them at 50% is a pretty shitty response. You are the reason the defects (yes this is a design and supply defect, even if latent) are destroying these devices. Look we all understand that no product is perfect and items get revised and modified to improve reliability/features/cost/ect. How you respond to the problem is what will set your company apart. If by your words, "We have a had a few complaints on this issue, but 99.9 % of the units we field haven't malfunctioned", then why can't you replace the less than 0.1% of units that have this problem. If less than 1 in a thousand units need to be replaced, you are talking about 1/1000 of your profit and 1/1000 of your cost. Both are less than $600. Do the math and quickly you will find that the goodwill from taking care of your customers will be far more profitable then letting issues like this spread like a wildfire in the community.

Any business or PR goober can sit there and say things like "were working on it, we will do everything we can, We will do out best, ect". Actions are all that matters. So far, your companies actions and your latests statements to your planned actions are unsat. I am going to go on a limb and say this was already a known issue. There is no fucking way in hell that so many people here (relitive) are having the same issue, yet everyone in the Mil/LE/Sniper isin't. Most likley their shit breaks they just buy a new one. Or this is a known issue to your company and you are not being forthright for fear of effecting the bottom line. This is damage control, and a shitty example of it.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Sassayousefi
I personally want to thank Kestrel for addressing this issue and coming on to Sniper's Hide to directly address our membership.

I understand you can't please everyone and with some things there is no clear solution, but I think the fact you are here talking and offering something should be recognized.

Of course a few will complain that your steps do not go far enough, which is understandable they are frustrated, but there are a lot of things to consider from each side here.

Again, thanks for address this and the members, and we at SH appreciate the response and support.
 
I like the fact that you have come forward and addressed this problem publicly. I will still buy one of your weather meters. I do however after hearing some of the replies feel that Kestrel is probably liable for this issue since they shipped the unit with the batteries that caused the problem. I'm sure that you were aware of the problem prior, or soon after having some reports from customers. So do these three things and you will be golden in my eyes and I'm sure in the eyes of many of your customers.

1. Do everything that you said you are going to do in your earlier response.

2. Just replace the OP's unit for free, it's really not gonna kill your company. Make the man happy.

3. Please put some kind of "off, off" on your units so this never happens again. I'm sure there is an inexpensive fix for this.

Just my humble opinion. Best of luck to everyone involved.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Sassayousefi
The fact that their response is to make the guy pay for Kestrel's screw up is enough for me not to purchase their product. You dont make your consumer pay for your screw up in supplying the wrong type of battery for your circuitry that has a design flaw. Terrible way to do business in my opinion.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Sassayousefi
I fail to see how this is Ketrel's fault unless you get the device from them with the batteries allready leaking. Everyone here is old enough to have had at least one remote controlled car, tv remote, radio, flashlight, or some sort of electronic device that has had the battery acid leak out inside. I don't ever remember my parents throwing a fit and angrilly calling the manufacturers, but I do remember my dad telling me that I should have checked and taken better care of my things. I have since then started using either lithium or rehargable batteries, because they are far less prone to craking and leaking. Since my shift to lithuim batteries I have never had to deal with this issue. I just don't understand what everyone thinks should be covered under the warranty and put into their manuals. Kestrel has come back and stated clearly what they intend to do to try and help out their customers. If they come through on their word and do everything that they say, then I would be happy. If all it takes is to remove the batteries after use to possibly save a $600 device then I just remove the batteries. If that causes me to wait an extra 5 minutes for the device to recalibrate, then I think that is a small discomfort to save $600.

Putting cheap batteries into an valuable shooting tool is like putting corrosive ammo through an AI AE MKIII.
 
I would like to verify that Sanyo Eneloop's are or are not GTG? I was told by the lady at the Kestrel booth at SHOT that they are. I just want to make sure that still holds true. Can you confirm that?
 
I am not a battery expert, but most of the highend rechargables are GTG. Sanyo is also know for producing great quality batteries but I also know that every companywill produce a lemon so I still would just remove the batteries when done. A good set of rechargable batteries coupled with a quality charger (one that discharges the batteries completley before recharging and will shut off or trickle charge when finished) will serve you well.

For everyone that might have questions about batteries; below is a link to a forum that is based around highend flashlights and batteries. They would be able to provide the best info on quality batteries. Some of the lights that these guys use cost more that the Ketrels in question so you can bet that they are not using cheap batteries.

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/
 
Kestrel,

As another poster stated. This tragedy is an opportunity for your company to demonstrate how important this demographic is to your current and future business. And, it is a great opportunity to demonstrate that you not only offer a superior product, but superior service as well.
Lastly, who is to say it is not the batteries you placed in the damaged units that caused them to fail? Wouldn't that make Kestrel wholly responsible for the failure?
You really do need to replace the damaged units at no charge.
 
That will not address the issue, since the problem isn't self-discharge of the batteries themselves (an aspect of performance in which alkaline batteries excel) but rather over-discharge due to the unit's inability to cease drawing current when in the Off mode.

Also note that repeated discharge below 0.9V will likely cause permanent damage to NiMH cells, and in some cases may eventually cause leakage of potassium hydroxide. That would effectively put the unit at the same risk of damage from over-discharged alkaline batteries.


This point was not missed in the previous thread:

http://www.snipershide.com/shooting/showthread.php?t=179468&p=2386361&viewfull=1#post2386361

As an electrical engineer and designer of embedded systems, I completely agree that the unit needs to have some mechanism by which to avoid over-discharge of the batteries.

I agree that it would be a great idea on the part of the manufacturer to have a real "off" for everyone who wants to turn it off - and not remove the batteries. However, while it certainly could occur in theory that the NiMH batteries leak - I haven't seen any indication that the Kestrels would discharge the NiMH batteries enough to actually cause this to occur. The testing done at candlepowerforums seem to indicate that to get the NiMH rechargables to leak takes a huge discharge - in fact simply shorting the NiMH's and recharging them, over and over wasn't enough to cause them to leak.

So while it seems its possible in theory to trigger the leakage in rechargeable NiMH, I didn't see any real evidence that it has actually occurred on any by a very very limited basis (which is likely well within the QC margin of error).
 
my concern is that kestrel will soon be out of business and unable to warranty them anyway. Because, if the claimed $333 mfg cost for a unit that can be found online for 400 max and even less if you find the right retailer, then they arent going to last too long.

this is part of what bothers me about their attempt to "help" the original guy out, i would guess their cost is about half that if not less, at least i wouldhope so for their sake


eta: unles they are talking about a horus model, then thats not AS far fetched
 
Last edited:
my concern is that kestrel will soon be out of business and unable to warranty them anyway. Because, if the claimed $333 mfg cost for a unit that can be found online for 400 max and even less if you find the right retailer, then they arent going to last too long.




eta: unles they are talking about a horus model, then thats not AS far fetched

In your calculation did you just account for materials and labor going into 1 unit or are you also factoring in the infrastructure cost, logistics, R&D costs, sales costs, etc.? I bet they are. We have to in our mfg process.

L
 
Last edited:
That doesn't matter, I'm just hoping they aren't splitting a profit of $67 max with their retailers!

Again,only if they aren't quoting those costs for horus models.
 
Volume and averaged costs per unit across lines. I'm betting they will be around for awhile.

Also, if that is the cost per unit after paying all the bills then that split is pure profit.

L
 
Last edited:
I have a suspicion it's the cost to their retailers, not the actual manufacturing cost. Cost per unit to manufacture is more likely a little under $100 (again, omitting design costs, etc).

I'm also curious how badly damaged most of these really are from the battery acid. I had a meter go bad from battery acid (my fault for storing it with alkaline batteries), and simply replaced the battery contacts and all was good again.
 
I have a suspicion it's the cost to their retailers, not the actual manufacturing cost.

Good point. I think their offer is pretty decent though. Given batteries have been leaking in stored electronics since the beginning of time and I thought that was something everyone learned fairly early. Usually the hard way.
 
Most corner stores, radio shacks, grocery stores, etc. They are pretty common nowadays. They will be about 2x the price if not more than alkaline.

L
 
Last edited:
Kestrel,

As another poster stated. This tragedy is an opportunity for your company to demonstrate how important this demographic is to your current and future business. And, it is a great opportunity to demonstrate that you not only offer a superior product, but superior service as well.
Lastly, who is to say it is not the batteries you placed in the damaged units that caused them to fail? Wouldn't that make Kestrel wholly responsible for the failure?
You really do need to replace the damaged units at no charge.

Due respest to the other involved parties, but I have to agree that I am somewhat bewildered as to how anyone can think that this is an appropriate response to the issue? The item comes from the manufacturer with a warranty correct?

We guarantee every Kestrel Pocket Weather Meter to be free of defects in materials and workman-ship for a period of FIVE YEARS from their date of first consumer purchase. NK will repair or replace
any defective product or part when notified within the warranty period, and will return the product via
domestic ground shipping or NK’s choice of method of international shipping at no charge.

this is very clearly a defect in material and or workmanship in which the design is causing a castastrophic failure of the device. Furthermore the device is shipped from the factory with a supplied set of batteries. If those batteries prove to make the device fail still in no way excuses the company from its obligation under the terms of the warranty. If I fill up my petrol engine with diesel and it fails its not the fault of the engine or the fault of the diesel, similarly if I fire a .40 out of the barrel of a 9mm it is not the fault of the gun or the cartridge, except in this case the device was shipped arealdy supplied with the item in question, regardless if it does or does not contribute to the failure in the first place.

"Kestrels hardly
ever break, but if they do, they're covered by a five-year warranty"

The following shall be excluded from warranty coverage: damage due to improper use or neglect
(including corrosion); damage caused by severe or excessive impact, crushing or mechanical harm;
modifications or attempted repairs by someone other than an authorized NK/Kestrel repair agent;
impeller failure not caused by a manufacturing defect; normal usage wear; failed batteries; and accuracy
issues resolvable by recalibration. Recalibration is provided free of charge within thirty (30) days of
purchase if necessary


Unless the company is able to prove negligence on the part of the user which fits the language included in the warranty, or a widespread defect on the part of the battery itself which I think we can all agreee is unlikely, I don't see how they can even entertain anything besides honoring their warranty guarantee as it is stated.

I think if push came to shove that legally this would be the case as well.

Frankly as someone pointed out earlier, asking the consumer to purchase their replacement which is essentially saying that even with all that being said, you are still electing to keep the your profit that was made on that individual and now destroyed item instead of at the very least meeting the customer somewhere in between or perhaps keeping some of your profit through a product upgrade, let alone honor your warranty that even if your not legally bound to do (which I still would not guarantee) would certainly display a good amount of superior customer service and probably earn you the profits your are electing to withhold a few times over in free positive press, and customer devotion and repeated sales.

The only time that I am asked to pay for a replacement part of simial qualit and backing at 'price' is when I have either damaged or destroyed teh part in such a way that was the result of unintentional damage not covered under warranty but early on in the warranty timeframe and on a case by case basis, or after the warranty period has expired. or most often as a discounted rate for a upgrade or replacement to due to an improved design.
 
Last edited:
I really like to see manufacturers monitoring the customer base. While not completely ideal, this is an adequate solution for the problem. I have been aware of battery corrosion since a very young age, observing the fact that flashlights dimmed and failed as the corrosion increased. It's also reasonable to expect we should always use a superior battery--for heaven's sake alkalines fail terribly in cold weather. I use lithiums for that reason alone. I wouldn't have been able to shoot at all this winter without electronic support from my GPS, rangefinder, and weather meter. Unless I went hardcore. Well. I didn't.