Hunting & Fishing 20x47L for PD's in the works

[steve123]

3 weeks ago I stumbled onto a short article at the Woodchuck den about the 20x47 Lapua wildcat. It's a perfect long range solution for me for prairie dogs because I shoot 6x47L already in my tactical rifle, have lots of brass and I can switch barrels on my "go to" rifle for varmint hunting.

I ordered a PTG reamer a week ago and have a barrel set aside at Krieger. Dies will be ordered next week.

The cartridge won't be easy on barrels so I plan on using it for the longer shots only.

Here's the numbers for the 55 grain Berger.
3900 fps/.381BC/9000DA/100y zero/5mph-3 oclock.Drop=E Drift=W in mils.

200Y .2E .1W
300Y .5 .2
400Y .9 .2
500Y 1.3 .3
600Y 1.8 .4
700Y 2.4 .4

I'll keep posting when stuff starts showing up.

Can't wait till spring!

Anybody else run a 20x47L?

 

[snaglytooth]

Re: 20x47L for PD's in the works

Steve,
There are a bunch of guys around here that are all about the 20. I built an 18" with a carbon wrapped benchmark barrel.I have been very impressed with how it shoots. Just wish the 55gn bergers were more available locally! The guy that got me hooked on it shoots his in the matches and does very well with it.

What powder are you going to use?

 

[steve123]

Re: 20x47L for PD's in the works

Hey Eric,

What 20's are you guys shooting and how are you liking them?

I used to have a Cooper 21 in 204R for PD's but about 5 years ago the they got scarce around here from disease and I sold it. I'm glad they're making a comeback now. I liked 204 better than most of the cartridges I've used for varmints.

Got a CZ527 17Rem showing up in a week for 200Y to 500Y on PD's and as a coyote rifle. I used to have one of them also. Easy to see hits with a 17.

Also getting a 17-6.5G AI built in 2013 on a benchrest rifle. 30 grainers at 4000-4200.

Next spring is gonna be fun!

 

[5spd]

Re: 20x47L for PD's in the works

I am building a 20x45, (20 pract) not going to be as fast or for heavies like yours, it will be a coyote/p-dog gun though.

 

[phxfa]

Re: 20x47L for PD's in the works

Steve,
Thats a lot of gun for Seligman,,,JK!

 

[snaglytooth]

Re: 20x47L for PD's in the works

Steve,
No kidding your going to be hell on those poor p-dogs!
Everybody up here is doing the 20x47 lapua. Most are die hard coyote hunter and swear by it.

Let us know how it turns out. I know your going to love it.

 

[steve123]

Re: 20x47L for PD's in the works

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 5spd</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I am building a 20x45, (20 pract) not going to be as fast or for heavies like yours, it will be a coyote/p-dog gun though. </div></div>

Nice! Let us in on the specs.

 

[steve123]

Re: 20x47L for PD's in the works

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tom Olson</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Steve,
Thats a lot of gun for Seligman,,,JK! </div></div>

Haha, I used a 6-284 before the 204. That was a lot of gun for PD's! We should talk about doing PD shoot this spring with Brad and the AZPRC bunch.

 

[steve123]

Re: 20x47L for PD's in the works

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lastshot101</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Steve,
No kidding your going to be hell on those poor p-dogs!
Everybody up here is doing the 20x47 lapua. Most are die hard coyote hunter and swear by it.

Let us know how it turns out. I know your going to love it. </div></div>

Will do Eric!

If you get a chance please ask some of those 20x47L guys to contact me about load advice.

 

[phxfa]

Re: 20x47L for PD's in the works

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: steve123</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tom Olson</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Steve,
Thats a lot of gun for Seligman,,,JK! </div></div>

Haha, I used a 6-284 before the 204. That was a lot of gun for PD's! We should talk about doing PD shoot this spring with Brad and the AZPRC bunch.

</div></div>
Yep, talk to you at the match.
I go to SD every year and Im trying to build something thats has spectactular results at distance,,,400-600 yds and winds a mofo there. 6mmBR?

 

[steve123]

Re: 20x47L for PD's in the works

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tom Olson</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: steve123</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tom Olson</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Steve,
Thats a lot of gun for Seligman,,,JK! </div></div>

Haha, I used a 6-284 before the 204. That was a lot of gun for PD's! We should talk about doing PD shoot this spring with Brad and the AZPRC bunch.

</div></div>

Yep, talk to you at the match.
I go to SD every year and Im trying to build something thats has spectactular results at distance,,,400-600 yds and winds a mofo there. 6mmBR? </div></div>

It's a tough decision.

All out accuracy and efficiency probably goes to 6BR, 6BRX, 6 Dasher, built on a benchrest rifle shot off a rest. So say the record books anyways.

Other side of the coin is the advantage of wind deflection and drop ruled by cartridges like 20x47L.

I had a 6PPC bench rifle. It was in it's own league, .3" on average with 68 grain flat base. I was shocked if they weren't all touching at 100Y. It got built into a 6.5-284 before I got to try it on PD's.

Had a 6BR benchrest rifle too. I couldn't get it to shoot any better than our tactical rifles do. It even had a new Bartlien barrel on it??? I was shooting 105 Berger VLD's at 2900 fps/30" barrel. It did OK in the wind but not great.

If I can get .4" groups out of this 20x47L combined with it's drop, drift and low recoil, Then it'd be hard to imagine a better combo for PD's at less than 800Y.

 

[steve123]

Re: 20x47L for PD's in the works

Wilson seater die and Krieger barrel ordered.

Found some form dies and will fireform some cases to send off to Warner tool and die so I can use my Warner 6x47L body die.

Getting closer

 

[steve123]

This is my M700 MAK. Usually a 6x47L but for the next month a 20x47L.

Finally at long last the 20x47L project is nearing completion, all I have to do is work up a load!

I got a new S&B 5-25 PM11 mil/mil FFP with H-59 reticle about a month ago. Man am I liking it!

Rings are ARC, "American Rifle Co".

The barrel is a fluted Krieger #18 light varmint finished at 27"s with 9 twist.

Yesterday I got my form dies from Redding and necked down 50 cases, then today I fireformed 50 brass with cream of wheat, trimmed, turned off .002 on the necks = .233" loaded round, cleaned and loaded up a 24 round double ladder test in .5 grain increments from 38 grains up to 43 grains of H-4831SC (I would have tried H4350 but there's none to be had), 55 Bergers seated .010 into the lands.

Chamber has a .235 neck.
Fireformed cases had the shoulder datum expanded out .005", shoulder moved forward .006, .0015" expansion on the case web.

Next calm day, hopefully tomorrow morning, I'll get to try out my 20x47

 

[steve123]

Well, I did a ladder test earlier this week with H-4831SC and Berger 55's, Starting from 38 grains to 43 grains in .5 grain increments. 4 rounds, 41-41.5-42-42.5 went into a inch vertical at 400Y. The whole test (starting at 38 grains) was only 5 inches of vertical which showed me H-4831 is too slow for 20x47, a ladder with normal dispersion would be almost twice the vertical as this one in the pic and would show the nodes much more clearly. My friend had our chrono at his house so I wasn't able to get velocities that day.

The 4 shots I was referring to are left and about even with the red target, highest shot was 43 grains.

Today I went out for a miserable hour (cold and windy) to shoot a few groups at 100Y and get some baseline velocities to see whether I should stay with H-4831 or not. I only chronoed the 2cnd lowest charge of the ladder which was 38.5 grains at 3359 fps and highest at 43 grains was 3778 fps. I shot two 4 shot groups, 42.2 grains at 3736 fps went into .5" and 41.8 grains at 3674 fps into a little over 1.1", the first shot ruined the group, other 3 were .4".

Said friend just got in 16lbs of H-4350 so I'm going to try that next.

 

[ranger1183]

those prairie dogs don't stand a chance!

 

[steve123]

I hope that's the case, LOL. I'm in a mad rush to work up a load, only have to the end of March to try the 20x47 out on PD's, then season won't open till June 15th, Oh well plenty of time for load refinement then.

 

[Wyfox]

Very nice!! Love my 204 Ruger, now I want one of these too!

 

[RTH1800]

I am working on a similar project. I have not decided on the 20-250 or 20x47L. Identical case capacity. I have a case of Lapua brass for each. The 250 offers no case forming and a bit less ideal shoulder. Where can the 55 grain Berger's be found. I have barrels and actions on order. Scopes and mounts are in my hands now. Mine is to be a suppressed coyote rifle.
I am using a 20 TAC and a .204 now. Can't wait to get this rolling.

 

[Southbreeze]

Steve-0,

I'm living vicariously through you. That thing looks absof'inglootely insane. I have to believe the destruction on critters is going to be serious! Like Bohem was telling me about another insane wildcat, that kind of energy will have some of the remains partially cooked upon impact. Like shooting a raw egg and finding cooked bits of eggwhite laying all over the ground.

Waiting on Pix of the carnage!

Cheers,
Breeze

 

[steve123]

I am working on a similar project. I have not decided on the 20-250 or 20x47L. Identical case capacity. I have a case of Lapua brass for each. The 250 offers no case forming and a bit less ideal shoulder. Where can the 55 grain Berger's be found. I have barrels and actions on order. Scopes and mounts are in my hands now. Mine is to be a suppressed coyote rifle.
I am using a 20 TAC and a .204 now. Can't wait to get this rolling.

I looked at all the standard places and couldn't find the 55B's, even called Berger hoping to get some from them, no luck, they weren't doing another run till April or May. Only reason I found some is a guy on another Forum saw them on the shelf at his local gun store, I bought all 600!

Let me know how your 20 project goes!

 

[steve123]

Steve-0,

I'm living vicariously through you. That thing looks absof'inglootely insane. I have to believe the destruction on critters is going to be serious! Like Bohem was telling me about another insane wildcat, that kind of energy will have some of the remains partially cooked upon impact. Like shooting a raw egg and finding cooked bits of eggwhite laying all over the ground.

Waiting on Pix of the carnage!

Cheers,
Breeze

I tried a ladder test yesterday with H-4350 unsuccessfully. I guessed too high on the lightest charge by a couple grains. I went from 37 grains in half grain increments and hit pressure (sticky bolt) at 39.5, velocity was 3887 fps. H-4350 is a lot faster in burn rate than H-4831, surprised me, I wasn't getting excessive pressure signs with the H4831 even at 43 grains.

Another ladder is ready from 35 grains in .3 grain increments.

I'm pretty sure I could get over 4000 fps with R-17 but I'm not going to try because the barrel will get burned out quick and I don't like the temp sensitivity of it. So it is what it is and looks like I'm going to end up in the low 3800's somewhere when load work is done.

I'll bring back some carnage pics if I can get out next Saturday.

 

[RTH1800]

Thanks,
I have them on order so they will arrive prior to the barrels.
I wonder if anyone has tried one with the 40 grain bullets for a fast 500 yard deal??
What twist are you using. My barrels are to be 9 twist on the recommendation of both Todd Kinder and Krieger. I hope that is enough.

 

[jcfd2201]

Steve, why let March 30th be the end of PD whacking? There are some good towns up on the Rez and it's only $30 a year for the permit!!! I may even be talked into going and showing you a couple decent towns that are shootable out to 1000yds, it would of course mean trying out that 20x47 so I can compare it to the 20 Vartarg.

 

[steve123]

Thanks,
I have them on order so they will arrive prior to the barrels.
I wonder if anyone has tried one with the 40 grain bullets for a fast 500 yard deal??
What twist are you using. My barrels are to be 9 twist on the recommendation of both Todd Kinder and Krieger. I hope that is enough.

Mine is a 9 twist. I almost wish I had a 8 twist so I could try the 64 grain Unmusigs, supposed to have a BC of almost .5, .5 BC bullet moving at 3500 would be amazing!

 

[steve123]

Steve, why let March 30th be the end of PD whacking? There are some good towns up on the Rez and it's only $30 a year for the permit!!! I may even be talked into going and showing you a couple decent towns that are shootable out to 1000yds, it would of course mean trying out that 20x47 so I can compare it to the 20 Vartarg.

You definitely have a deal on that offer if I can talk you into to it! I've been reading a lot about the 20VT and I'd like to shoot yours a little too.

Shoot me a PM when you get a chance,

Thanks

 

[steve123]

I made it out early to do my next ladder. Too my delight there was little wind.

I shot 15 shots at 400Y from 35 grains up to 39.2 grains in .3 grain increments. As you can see the ladder went well and better than I had hoped. Shots 11 through 15 or 38 to 39.2 grains went into less than an inch. This 20x47L is looking like it might be one accurate rifle when all the load work is done!!!

I forgot to take the windage off the scope from the other day so on the #1 shot it hit way right and just out of the pic. I dialed left for shots 2 and 4 till I was centered. Shots 1 through 4 appear to be the low node based on the vertical, which I won't be using though.

Shots 5 through 10 look to be out of the node as the shots are scattered.

Next outing I'll shoot some groups from 38.4 to 38.8 in .1 grain increments and pick whichever shoots best with low SD, then confirm. Onto seating depth after that.

 

[Southbreeze]

Hey steve-0, have you tried the H380?

Holy shit, did I read that correct @400yds? I'll say this, sure will be glad when you quit screwing around with this project and get into something accurate at distance

Those are the kind of results that can make a fellow sit back and grin. Bub, you nailed it. That's M.O.P.D.T. Minute of prarie dog testicles!

 

[steve123]

Hey steve-0, have you tried the H380?

Holy shit, did I read that correct @400yds? I'll say this, sure will be glad when you quit screwing around with this project and get into something accurate at distance

Those are the kind of results that can make a fellow sit back and grin. Bub, you nailed it. That's M.O.P.D.T. Minute of prarie dog testicles!

Thanks Southbreeze for following along! I was surprised myself for sure, being this was at 400Y and 1.5 grains difference between shots 11 through 15.

Thanks for the suggestion on the H-380 but I'm trying to stay with the Hodgdon Extreme powders because of their temp insensitivity.

 

[5spd]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 5spd</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I am building a 20x45, (20 pract) not going to be as fast or for heavies like yours, it will be a coyote/p-dog gun though. </div></div>

Nice! Let us in on the specs.

I will make a new post on it when I get my bbl. so I dont step on steves build post.
Its going to be on a Savage action like all my others though.

 

[steve123]

First kill with the 20x47 today. Only 125Y and one of the few I saw that didn't go down their hole before I could get a shot. I went to a place locally that had hundreds of PD's years ago, only saw maybe a dozen in 4 different towns.

Yesterday was a weird day both good and bad. I shot two 1/4 moa 3 shot groups at 200Y while load testing, worst 2 groups were 1/2 moa so I was happy with that. Later in the day I was fireforming with Cream of Wheat and somehow got 2 wads of tissue and COW stuck in the barrel, of all the damn things to happen !@#$%^&*! I ended up pouring water down the barrel and letting it soak for an hour, then I was able to push the obstruction out but before that I was trying hard to get the obstruction out with the cleaning rod from both the muzzle end and the breach end. Might have damaged the crown, won't know till next week when I resume load development. Also the seating stem came loose on the die so I lost the initial seating depth which I hadn't recorded yet.

 

[5spd]

^^Glad you got that mess out of the bbl finally! Kinda ruins the day. Hope the crown wasnt hurt.
Ita ALWAYS something eh?

 

[propeine]

That looks like an awful lot of fun. Interested to see how it ultimately turns out. I was looking into the 20 practical and if I build a 20 will probably go that route for brass availability and ease of forming cases but your 20x47 does the trick quite nicely! Hope the barrel turns out fine after your little incident.

 

[milo 2.0]

First kill with the 20x47 today. Only 125Y and one of the few I saw that didn't go down their hole before I could get a shot. I went to a place locally that had hundreds of PD's years ago, only saw maybe a dozen in 4 different towns.

Yesterday was a weird day both good and bad. I shot two 1/4 moa 3 shot groups at 200Y while load testing, worst 2 groups were 1/2 moa so I was happy with that. Later in the day I was fireforming with Cream of Wheat and somehow got 2 wads of tissue and COW stuck in the barrel, of all the damn things to happen !@#$%^&*! I ended up pouring water down the barrel and letting it soak for an hour, then I was able to push the obstruction out but before that I was trying hard to get the obstruction out with the cleaning rod from both the muzzle end and the breach end. Might have damaged the crown, won't know till next week when I resume load development. Also the seating stem came loose on the die so I lost the initial seating depth which I hadn't recorded yet.

Unless you just nicked his right side, I'm surprised at the lack of carnage. I'd think anything under 300 yards would just be parts.
Not questioning your bullet choice, but if you could get them to stay together, I'd think a vmax would be primo.

 

[steve123]

^^Glad you got that mess out of the bbl finally! Kinda ruins the day. Hope the crown wasnt hurt.
Ita ALWAYS something eh?

Yep, always something. I just wish they were spread out a little more and less costly would be nice.

 

[steve123]

That looks like an awful lot of fun. Interested to see how it ultimately turns out. I was looking into the 20 practical and if I build a 20 will probably go that route for brass availability and ease of forming cases but your 20x47 does the trick quite nicely! Hope the barrel turns out fine after your little incident.

Let me know how your 20 practical does.

 

[steve123]

Unless you just nicked his right side, I'm surprised at the lack of carnage. I'd think anything under 300 yards would just be parts.
Not questioning your bullet choice, but if you could get them to stay together, I'd think a vmax would be primo.

Dead center hit and yes I was surprised the carnage wasn't worse. No sound at the hit either, not that pop we're used to hearing.

The 55's have a small hollow point, might be why???

I might try some 40's but I think chamber is throated out too far to use them.

The 20x47 idea was to be a long range PD rifle so I chose the 55's because of their BC of .381 BC and less wind drift.