178Amax with Varget in 1 in 12 twist ?

[dawson08]

OK, so I have a Remington 700 in 308 LRT 1in 12 twist and 26 inch barrel. I have a load for it (somewhat) 168SMK with Varget it does well during ladder testing but not OCW testing and also is not performing consistent. SO i want to try 178 AMAX with Varget Lapua brass and FED 210M Primers. BUT i cannot find any load data on the 178 AMAX with Varget so what should be my start and stop point for charge weight for OCW testing?

 

[normbal]

168 grain SMK over 46 grains H-Varget fired by a Federal 210 primer (match or standard) with Federal brass at 2.810" OAL is nearly an industry standard sub-moa load. It should give you at least 2600 fps from your gun if not closer to 2700 with a 26" barrel.

The 178 gn AMAX should stabilize well enough but first off I'd go back to seeing if your LTR is the source of the problem (chambers get cut off-sides sometimes such that the bullet hits the rifling one one side first), or it's something to do with having a stable shooting platform (bag, bipod, cheek weld) and finger control all come to mind.

Not assuming or challenging here, just bringing up some points to consider before trying out another load before you've got satisfactory results from a load that most closely approximates a factor load that works for almost everyone.

 

[dawson08]

The 178 gn AMAX should stabilize well enough but first off I'd go back to seeing if your LTR is the source of the problem (chambers get cut off-sides sometimes such that the bullet hits the rifling one one side first),QUOTE]

Well this is what I thought but I've checked it out and had a smith look at it and it checks out. As far as rest it is shot from a sled with a trigger pull so that pretty much takes up the human error. but I have tried a few 178 AMAX's already(a light load since i had no data) and it shot it (moreless) the same as 168SMK but because of the 1 in 12 twist I went with the SMK. And now im thinking I should have went the 178 AMAX route. The 168SMK seems to vary from 1/2 moa to 1.25moa but so far AMAX's all stayed 1/2 moa but again that was with a light load with since I had no top end data and thought it was a lost cause to the 168SMK anyways. But now maybe not.

 

[17874]

168 grain SMK over 46 grains H-Varget fired by a Federal 210 primer (match or standard) with Federal brass at 2.810" OAL is nearly an industry standard sub-moa load. It should give you at least 2600 fps from your gun if not closer to 2700 with a 26" barrel.

The 178 gn AMAX should stabilize well enough but first off I'd go back to seeing if your LTR is the source of the problem (chambers get cut off-sides sometimes such that the bullet hits the rifling one one side first), or it's something to do with having a stable shooting platform (bag, bipod, cheek weld) and finger control all come to mind.

Not assuming or challenging here, just bringing up some points to consider before trying out another load before you've got satisfactory results from a load that most closely approximates a factor load that works for almost everyone.

46 grains of Varget? Seems a little hot. 45 grains of Varget pushing a 175 SMK is max load for 175 and gave me 2660 out of a 20" tube.

 

[dawson08]

46 grains of Varget? Seems a little hot. 45 grains of Varget pushing a 175 SMK is max load for 175 and gave me 2660 out of a 20" tube.

So 45 is max for the 175 SMK so would it be safe to say the same for the 178?

 

[17874]

Have to look it up, but I always work up to max for my rifle. I wouldn't just shoot a load with 45 grains of Varget pushing a 178 Amax. That load started to show signs of pressure in my rifle (flattened primers, but no ejector mark). That sucks because it shot 1/2 MOA at 300. The load I went with was 43.5, which only gives me 2620 out of my 20" barrel.

 

[NukeMMC]

I run 178 AMAX or HPBT on 44gr Varget and it gets me 2650fps from my 22" R700V with a suppressor. Accuracy at 200 is right there with the 175SMK. Not enough testing to have good dope to 1000.

 

[normbal]

46 grains of Varget? Seems a little hot. 45 grains of Varget pushing a 175 SMK is max load for 175 and gave me 2660 out of a 20" tube.

From Hodgdon:

Cartridge: 308 Winchester Load Type: Rifle <tbody> </tbody>

Starting Loads

Maximum Loads

Bullet Weight (Gr.)

Manufacturer

Powder

Bullet Diam.

C.O.L.

Grs.

Vel. (ft/s)

Pressure

Grs.

Vel. (ft/s)

Pressure

168 GR. BAR TTSX BT

Hodgdon

Varget

.308

2.800"

41.0

2514

46,100 PSI

45.0C

2737

60,000 PSI

168 GR. SIE HPBT

Hodgdon

Varget

.308"

2.800"

42.0

2520

41,200 CUP

46.0C

2731

50,600 CUP

<tbody>
</tbody>

<form name="DelForm" action="http://data.hodgdon.com/cartridge_load_1.asp" method="post" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; "></form>

 

[17874]

I should add that my 175 SMK load with 45 grains of Varget was in Winchester brass and my 178 Amax load with 45 grains of Varget was in LC brass. LC has less case capacity which in theory = higher pressure.

 

[dawson08]

well 10% redux from 45grains is 40.5 so from 40.5 to 45 I should be able to find a load I just wanted to be sure on the max load

 

[Bear24]

My FN SPR 24" 1:12 shoots bugholes with the 178g amax with 44.4 Varget, federal cases, fed 210M primers and it produces 2720fps

 

[Smokerroller]

Good info here as I have just finished hand loading some 175 SMKs with 41-45 grains of Varget by .5 grain increments for an OCW test. The rifle is a REPR and barrel is 1-11.25, 20". I have some 168 SMKs to load if I have to but would prefer to shoot the 175s. I would also like to find some 178 Amaxs but doubt it for a long time. How about some 180 grain SMKs stabilizing in my 11.25?

 

[JGorski]

168 grain SMK over 46 grains H-Varget fired by a Federal 210 primer (match or standard) with Federal brass at 2.810" OAL is nearly an industry standard sub-moa load. It should give you at least 2600 fps from your gun if not closer to 2700 with a 26" barrel./QUOTE]

I beg to differ, I tried 42-44grs of Varget with Win brass, CCIBRs, 168AMAXs, which from my testing gives lower pressure than 168MKs, and 44grs showed serious pressure, sticky bolt, ejector marks on the headstamp, horseshit accuracy, etc etc. If I were shooting 178s Id save the varget for something else and use 2000MR, 47.5grs. That being said, 42grs RE15 & 168MK will produce sub-moa, not Varget. Can you tell I dont like varget for my 308s?

 

[JGorski]

Good info here as I have just finished hand loading some 175 SMKs with 41-45 grains of Varget by .5 grain increments for an OCW test. The rifle is a REPR and barrel is 1-11.25, 20". I have some 168 SMKs to load if I have to but would prefer to shoot the 175s. I would also like to find some 178 Amaxs but doubt it for a long time. How about some 180 grain SMKs stabilizing in my 11.25?

Should have no issues in that 11.25 twist., 45grs of varget and under 175MKs, LOOKOUT!

 

[Creature]

I use 44.5grs of varget with 178gr a max and get 2600fps out of my 20" and 2730 out of my 22". I just chronographed them in the 22" barrel today. You might want to rethink trying to find a load with them though, they are no where to be found.

 

[victorz]

44.1gr of varget is the right load for my rifles. 26'' 1:12, fed brass, cci br/210m, 2.800-2.805. I stopped at 44.5gr, it doesn't show any pressure sign if you shoot slow, but bolt will get stiffer after 10 or more consecutive rounds. I don't have any chrono to verify speed, but it should be faster than factory FGMM 168 and FGMM 175, because the recoil is stronger.

 

[blurry6]

This thread seems like a lot of BS in regard to 168, 175, and 178 grain bullets,... Who friggin' cares what somebody else's rifle likes! Every barrel is different! If you want to shoot 178's, start shooting 178's. There's probably not a lot of info outside of Hornady for that bullet, but don't let that stop you. Start with a low-end load recommendation for a 175 (plenty of data out there) and work your way up - you might need to consult a burn-rate table if the powder you intend to use isn't in the manual you're consulting. Start loading up a ladder series, preferably on site at the range. Work up the loads as usual,... i.e. pay attention to the velocity, the primers and bolt-lift,... Use experience, common sense, and caution when working up the load. Chances are, you'll either find the node for the bullet/powder combo you intend to shoot and will be able to dial it in with smaller grain weight increments of powder and seating depth from there,... or you won't. At that point, try another powder, or bullet,... It ain't rocket science.

Ry

 

[bobke]

Try this link in Accurate Shooter site. Scroll down to comments from Brad Suave regarding Varget and 175 SMK's. Sometimes slower is more accurate...
.308 Win Cartridge Guide within AccurateShooter.com
May not ring true for everyone's circumstance, but worth looking at.

 

[Deadshot2]

On of the old basic rules of thumb when searching for load data and the bullet weight isn't listed, just use the data for the closest HEAVIER bullet for your starting points.

I found the same issue when loading for the 178 A-Max and I just started out using 180 gr data. Found that the most accurate load in my rifle was just about the same weight of Varget as for my 175 gr Nosler Custom Comps.

 

[BCP]

OK, so I have a Remington 700 in 308 LRT 1in 12 twist and 26 inch barrel. I have a load for it (somewhat) 168SMK with Varget it does well during ladder testing but not OCW testing and also is not performing consistent. SO i want to try 178 AMAX with Varget Lapua brass and FED 210M Primers. BUT i cannot find any load data on the 178 AMAX with Varget so what should be my start and stop point for charge weight for OCW testing?

Varget and 178 amaxs work great. My favorite charges for that bullet are 43.5 and 45grains in Winchester brass. I loaded them to book length which was 2.8.

 

[Killswitch Engage]

i run 178 amax and 175 smk out of my 1/12 24" and i use 43gr varget, win brass, fgmm primer at 2.810. shoots little bugholes and gets me 2615-20fps. i would assume around 42-42.5 in a lapua case as i believe the internal case capacity is lower due to brass thickness. start there and it will be plenty safe in your gun. i have found my next node was right at 45gr and shot just about the same.

ymmv

 

[dawson08]

yall can argue the 178 vs. 168 vs. 175 if you want but I just wanted to confirm what I already kinda thought which was to use the next closes listed (which was the 175smk) and go down 10% I already know about RE15 and 2000MR which I will try if varget doesn't work out but Im going to try varget first since every 308 I have owned and my 223's likes it plus I just found some and stocked up. The main point is how temp stable it is. HOWEVER it is not what I like it is what my rifle likes It seems to like the 178 with varget but they were light loads (42gr if i remember right) since i did not have a max to work off of (45g that I now have) so now I can work up a little and prob. find a node somewhere between 42.5 and 44. Thanks JGorski for the PM it helped out

 

[davidwebb]

If Varget works out for ya all the better, it has worked super in my 7mm08 with 150NBTs, not so much with 150MKs, also works great with 139s in 708s Ive loaded for in the past. That 2000MR/CFE stuff looks promising for sure in the 308.

 

[JGorski]

dawson, I see the max load in the Sierra manual is 41.7grs Varget for their 175-180s, and remember the M118 "sniper" round was loaded with RE15 until I read last year it was replaced by 4064, not sure if thats true or not, but you know that round is loaded with the 175MKs, just sayin'. You're welcome.