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Rifle Scopes S&B warranty

okeefe

okeefe

Private
Full Member
Minuteman
Apr 23, 2007
90
4
Farmington, Utah
www.twoguysengineering.com
I just purchased an S&B 5-25 PM II LT MTC MSR. Love the scope but I am surprised at how crappy the warranty is. For $3600 you would think that S&B would back their products for more than 2 years.

Does anyone know if the warranty is transferable? I am getting ready to drop the warranty cards in the mail, does that lock the warranty in to me only?
 
You need a warranty on your S&B Scope? News to me.....

Seriously I wouldn't worry at all, if something was actually wrong when the scope was made, you should find out way before 2 years is out & then after that anything that goes wrong is probably because you beat too many baby seals over the head with it.
 
Has anybody had an S&B go belly up after 2 years and then had S&B refuse to do a repair under warranty?
 
True. You can always call Marsha and she will make sure it gets fixed. But that's not the point. SB Germany is the one limiting their exposure. Get a few years down the road, the guard here in the US changes and you find yourself with yet another broken locking turrent- then where is your recourse? SB Germany is still denying there is a problem. Those blockheads should man up and put a lifetime warranty on their "best" product.

I currently own 4 SB's.
 
Thought I read something on here recently where a S&B lost a seal and leaked during a snow storm at a precision rifle course

Here it is not saying its indictive of S&B quality but for 3k + you would think something like this should not happen or they would stand behind it and make it right

http://www.snipershide.com/shooting...r-shooting-sako-trg-22-observations-gear.html

From the linked thread
XOR said:
Other Shooter’s Equipment Malfunctions

1) We had a Schmidt and Bender Scope break. The scope leaked and the internal lenses got covered with ice and the scope was out of action.
Click to expand...
 
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I have seen from Lowlight's past posts that S&B has had some quality problems, however there aren't a lot of options for top quality FFP scopes. I am new to long range shooting and am very surprised at the demand for high dollar, hi quality optics. Demand is so great that most retailers don't have any product in stock.

Maybe Nightforce will change that with the release of the BEAST. I have one on backorder but decided to go wight the S&B because I finally found one in stock. The BEAST doesn't look like it is going to be available until June, probably much later.
 
People often commented about the Dion/March scope 5-year warranty, and now S&B's is only 2 years. The question in my mind is how will they treat scopes that were purchased before the 2-year-warranty policy was instituted? Also, is the current waranty period good only for the original purchaser? Clearly the new policy is to limit repair costs that may have gone on for years for a particular scope.
 
Wait.....when the fuck did S&B go to a 2 year warranty?

Well shit....the one I bought last year indeed has a 2 warranty booklet......fuck me.
 
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poison123 said:
Wait.....when the fuck did S&B go to a 2 year warranty?
Click to expand...

It was their way of acknowledging a problem... and then passing it on to the consumer. The idea is to save money by limiting future liability- which is a really stupid decision by a bunch of otherwise bright individuals- although a bit clouded by gigantic egos (searching my mind for another pun).

It may take a few years, but eventually they will pull the blinders off and realize they are no longer alone at the top of the mountain. Face it, no one is kicking their ass today. But tomorrow? The pass through effect of Moores law = higher quality of optics.
 
SavageStag said:
NF has a lifetime warranty. ;)
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Yes but it remains to be seen what kind of problems their new offerings might have. Lifetime warranty is great, but what we all really want is quality products at a fair price. Repairs due to mfg defects should be few and far between. It is unreasonable to expect that you will buy any product and nothing will ever go wrong with it. We all just want it to be the other guy that gets the lemon. I am anxious to see how the new NF product line holds up
 
okeefe said:
Yes but it remains to be seen what kind of problems their new offerings might have. Lifetime warranty is great, but what we all really want is quality products at a fair price. Repairs due to mfg defects should be few and far between. It is unreasonable to expect that you will buy any product and nothing will ever go wrong with it. We all just want it to be the other guy that gets the lemon. I am anxious to see how the new NF product line holds up
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I can tell you first hand that the latest NXS Series with the newer reticles in F1 are great scopes. ALso that the ATACR is something to brag about. Many compare the new glass to watching an old tube TV to watching one of the new super high def ones.
 
poison123 said:
Wait.....when the fuck did S&B go to a 2 year warranty?

Well shit....the one I bought last year indeed has a 2 warranty booklet......fuck me.
Click to expand...

Can anyone answer this? I need to go back and check.

The well known vendor I have bought all three of my S&Bs over the years from did not disclose this change in policy.
 
Anyone thinking about diving into a S&B should take a look at the Steiner Military line before making a final decision. Quality and performance are very comparible with Steiner offering a lifetime warrantee and costing quite a bit less.

I picked one up a little while back and absolutely love it. I wouldn't even consider S&B at this point. In my opinion, they no longer have a significant technology or quality lead over other up and coming competitors and are pricing themselves out of the market.
 
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thefitter said:
Can anyone answer this? I need to go back and check.

The well known vendor I have bought all three of my S&Bs over the years from did not disclose this change in policy.
Click to expand...

The vendor might not have even known. This is fucking bullshit, I wouldn't have spent the amount they ask if I had known they only have a 2 year warranty now.
 
3 of the 4x I have needed repair from S&B has been with new scopes. One time with with an older scope, and I have one older one now that needs to go back.

I am not a good gauge to use (as I noted people asking for my input) I tend to operate outside the normal channels in these cases.

Also, I don't think it is up to the dealer / vendor to "inform" anyone of S&B policy. If you call to order a scope or have ordered one in the past there is nothing that says they should be informing your of warranty policy or changes. That is on you to understand what you are buying, so unless you ask specifically, why would they tell you. I can't recall, past or present anyone ever laying out the warranty policy of the scope I am buying. It's not on them to educate you here, unless you ask of course.

I would bet S&B would just fix it, unless of course they put a price in place up front for repair. If you find repair price list, then sure I suspect you'll pay. With all the changes both here in US and in Germany you very well might see charges happening. Its been pretty well across the board changes and not all I believe have been for the better. The US Distributor used to be a separate company, now they are owned by S&B, so the CS maybe controlled by Germany and again, cost you money.

Everything does break, I have a 5+ year old 5-25x that needs to go back, in the past I have used it for a scope older than 2 years. The more you use stuff, the more chances of issue can arise. Personally though, more S&Bs of mine have had issue out of the box, then after the fact.
 
Lowlight said:
3 of the 4x I have needed repair from S&B has been with new scopes. One time with with an older scope, and I have one older one now that needs to go back.

I am not a good gauge to use (as I noted people asking for my input) I tend to operate outside the normal channels in these cases.

Also, I don't think it is up to the dealer / vendor to "inform" anyone of S&B policy. If you call to order a scope or have ordered one in the past there is nothing that says they should be informing your of warranty policy or changes. That is on you to understand what you are buying, so unless you ask specifically, why would they tell you. I can't recall, past or present anyone ever laying out the warranty policy of the scope I am buying. It's not on them to educate you here, unless you ask of course.

I would bet S&B would just fix it, unless of course they put a price in place up front for repair. If you find repair price list, then sure I suspect you'll pay. With all the changes both here in US and in Germany you very well might see charges happening. Its been pretty well across the board changes and not all I believe have been for the better. The US Distributor used to be a separate company, now they are owned by S&B, so the CS maybe controlled by Germany and again, cost you money.

Everything does break, I have a 5+ year old 5-25x that needs to go back, in the past I have used it for a scope older than 2 years. The more you use stuff, the more chances of issue can arise. Personally though, more S&Bs of mine have had issue out of the box, then after the fact.
Click to expand...


I agree for the most part but over the years I felt I had developed a relationship with this vendor. After many personal phone calls asking for advice and recommendations for purchases as well as functionality and usage discussions when I needed help. It's not like I just place a order online with a shopping car check out. I would have expected the information to be volunteered as a professional/personal courtesy. But then again as my wife frequently points out- "your fucking standards for people are too fucking high!"
 
It is a significant change from the long standing 30... legal opinion won't follow.

If you purchased through Midway, you may be one lucky fella... "The Schmidt and Bender Police Marksman 2 Rifle Scope is covered by a 30 year factory warranty." Print that out and keep it with your scope- Potterfield just warranteed your product.

Leica pulled this same crap when they yanked their passport warranty in 2007 or 2008. Which was spectacular btw. No-fault, meant No fault. Drop your spotter and break it in half? No problem. Send to NJ and they will repair or replace. That was the sole reason for running your bino's under water to gently lift any debris from from the lenses prior to cleaning. Now they have modified 10yr. After that, your on your own.
 
I got a e-mail from a S&B vendor that said "PMII warranty is 10 years and Zenith/classic scopes is 30 yrs".

Here is the warranty on the S&B website:

Warranty

It seems that the vendor does NOT have accurate information. Also from reading the warranty is it possible that it has always been misinterpreted to be a flat 30 years? I can't remember and I can't get to all my stored documentation right now from my past scope purchases.

Thanks
 
It appears people may have just read it wrong,
Warranty


With the present Schmidt & Bender scope you are purchasing a high-quality product for which we give you a worldwide warranty under the following conditions:


Within 30 years from the date of the purchase we undertake to entertain a permanent stock of the required spare parts and make sure that our service engineers have all the necessary skills and capabilities to perform the required repair work.


Within 2 years from the date of the purchase we grant a warranty with respect to the applicable statutory warranty claims of the buyer.


As far as the scopes of the Zenith, Klassik and Hungaria series are concerned, the warranty with respect to the statutory warranty claims shall be valid within 10 years from the date of the purchase, with the restriction that any jobs and repairs performed as a result of wear and tear will not be covered by this warranty from the beginning of the 3rd year from the date of the purchase.


The warranty will not be valid for damages caused by improper use.


The warranty shall become void after any intervention and repair performed by any repair service we did not authorize to perform the repair.
Click to expand...
 
I'm starting to wonder, how are these attractive at $3500? I have to admit, I've been drooling over one too, but there is no way I would buy one with only a 2 year warranty. Especially considering the number of problems I hear about.
 
Jerry Ricker is a stand up guy. He told me the 2 year warranty was part of the whole European market and their warranty requirements or something along those lines. He also stated that if there is a defect in the scope then they will warranty it. I have just bought a 5-25 and I am confident if it fails due to a defect in workmanship they will cover it (my 4-16 had dirt on the reticle and it was over 2 years old and they covered it).
 
SavageStag said:
I'm starting to wonder, how are these attractive at $3500? I have to admit, I've been drooling over one too, but there is no way I would buy one with only a 2 year warranty. Especially considering the number of problems I hear about.
Click to expand...
Right now I am deciding to sell my nightforce that I have been happy with for a FFP scope and I have narrowed it down to the nightforce beast, S&B, and a steiner. The warranty issue has me a bit worries with making such a big purchased with the S&B because I have had issues with warranties in the past with watches, appliances, etc in jr past and it's a pain to get things services and fixed. It appears that S&B doesn't have the confidence in their product to give a longer warranty than 2 years (which is not long in my opinion) .
 
One-Eyed Jack said:
I think the previous poster said it: Two years parts and labor after purchase and S&B will maintain parts and expertise for repairs for 30 years.
Click to expand...

I always find discussions of warranty interesting because people have such vastly different impressions of what they think "fair" is. On the extreme, a significant number of folks seem to think that they should be able to drag their new USO behind the truck just for shits and giggles, and the company should fix it for free and with a smile. The market somewhat caters to this position for PR reasons and quite a few manufacturers, especially of less expensive scopes go with it because cost on their optics is low enough they aren't going to repair them anyway so they simply figure on replacing them in all cases.

I have a cynical opinion that many manufacturers start up with this kind of warranty figuring they won't be around in 30 years to think about it and if they are they can always go belly up, reincorporate, and leave all those liabilities behind K-mart style. Hell, its American business, 5 years, a golden parachute, bankruptcy, restructuring, and we never made the product to start with anyway. Booya Boca.

It is simply not reasonable to expect a product to be replaced free of charge when you run over it with your car. It is not the optic company's fault that you had a brain fart. It is also not reasonable to expect for a well designed and manufactured product to last forever when it includes wear components as optics do. The o-rings wear and dry out and eventually leak and those super special live forever springs often don't. It all just wears. Perhaps it is reasonable to build into the cost of the scope an expected number of reconditions or perhaps it is better to simply say up front that it will be done at cost.

Ultimately, what I expect and consider fair from a first tier, and even second tier, optics maker is to have the product reconditioned at cost or free of charge for the useful life of that product. I frankly do not think 30 years is good enough. Hell, Ford tractors from the 40's are still running on their 5th rebuild. I expect a commitment to more than 30 years of service. It is not that hard in the era of CNC machines and standard o-ring sizes to do that. I don't expect it to be necessarily free but I do expect at cost service for life. That is my opinion and I have no better reason for it than that is what feels reasonable to me.
 
finefire said:
Let's not get drastic.

The reason to buy a Vortex is that it costs less. But it might be a reason to start looking at other offerings in the $3-4K bucket.
Click to expand...

You don't have to spend $3-$4000 to find a comparable product, and yes, I've had 2 S&B's.
 
SavageStag said:
NF has a lifetime warranty. ;)
Click to expand...
I purchased a NF Competition 15X55 on Ebay. It arrived with the box and no paperwork at all. I called NF and told them where I got w/no paperwork and asked them if it had warranty. The answer was, "if you own it, it has a lifetime warranty". And he sent me all of the paperwork that would have came with the scope from the factory.
I just ordered a GA Precision Hospitellar 6MM Creedmoor, and was going to put on my first S&B, not going to happen with a 2 year warranty.
Dammit man!
 
54barn said:
I purchased a NF Competition 15X55 on Ebay. It arrived with the box and no paperwork at all. I called NF and told them where I got w/no paperwork and asked them if it had warranty. The answer was, "if you own it, it has a lifetime warranty". And he sent me all of the paperwork that would have came with the scope from the factory.
I just ordered a GA Precision Hospitellar 6MM Creedmoor, and was going to put on my first S&B, not going to happen with a 2 year warranty.
Dammit man!
Click to expand...

Here is my story of S&B customer service for warranty on my Hospitaller: http://www.snipershide.com/shooting...xcellent-customer-service-schmidt-bender.html

Do not think that Schmidt and Bender will deny your warranty request. They are simply limiting their liability for European reasons (the E.U. warranty constraints were too much of an exposure to them). The 5-25x56 is still the benchmark standard in scopes. I have loved mine an cannot imagine using anything else on my GAP Hospitaller.
 
Thanks for the reply Nevada. I think I am going to wait until the next shot show to see what comes about in the optics world. I am really wanting to put a S&B on this new build, but I have some time to make up my mind.
 
Tommy: Let's think about this for a sec, Ted. Why would somebody put a guarantee on a box? Hmmm, very interesting.

Ted Nelson, Customer: Go on, I'm listening.

Tommy: Here's the way I see it, Ted. Guy puts a fancy guarantee on a box 'cause he wants you to feel all warm and toasty inside.

Ted Nelson, Customer: Yeah, makes a man feel good.

Tommy: 'Course it does. Why shouldn't it? Ya figure you put that little box under your pillow at night, the Guarantee Fairy might come by and leave a quarter, am I right, Ted?

[chuckles until he sees that Ted is not laughing]

Ted Nelson, Customer: [impatiently] What's your point?

Tommy: The point is, how do you know the fairy isn't a crazy glue sniffer? "Building model airplanes" says the little fairy; well, we're not buying it. He sneaks into your house once, that's all it takes. The next thing you know, there's money missing off the dresser, and your daughter's knocked up. I seen it a hundred times.

Ted Nelson, Customer: But why do they put a guarantee on the box?

Tommy: Because they know all they sold ya was a guaranteed piece of shit. That's all it is, isn't it? Hey, if you want me to take a dump in a box and mark it guaranteed, I will. I got spare time. But for now, for your customer's sake, for your daughter's sake, ya might wanna think about buying a quality product from me.

Ted Nelson, Customer: [pause] Okay, I'll buy from you.



With the crazy price raises going on with S&B and more high end entrants into the high end Tactical scope market...........Its hard to look at S&B with their price & warranty when there are so many other good options out there for less money, and lifetime warranties. Maybe scopes like the BEAST will force them to come back to reality, but who knows. Optics companies come and go, get sold and broken up..........I would rather not be sitting on a $4K paperweight that is out of warranty and needs to be sent half way around the globe for service.
 
Cobracutter said:
Tommy: Let's think about this for a sec, Ted. Why would somebody put a guarantee on a box? Hmmm, very interesting.

Ted Nelson, Customer: Go on, I'm listening.

Tommy: Here's the way I see it, Ted. Guy puts a fancy guarantee on a box 'cause he wants you to feel all warm and toasty inside.

Ted Nelson, Customer: Yeah, makes a man feel good.

Tommy: 'Course it does. Why shouldn't it? Ya figure you put that little box under your pillow at night, the Guarantee Fairy might come by and leave a quarter, am I right, Ted?

[chuckles until he sees that Ted is not laughing]

Ted Nelson, Customer: [impatiently] What's your point?

Tommy: The point is, how do you know the fairy isn't a crazy glue sniffer? "Building model airplanes" says the little fairy; well, we're not buying it. He sneaks into your house once, that's all it takes. The next thing you know, there's money missing off the dresser, and your daughter's knocked up. I seen it a hundred times.

Ted Nelson, Customer: But why do they put a guarantee on the box?

Tommy: Because they know all they sold ya was a guaranteed piece of shit. That's all it is, isn't it? Hey, if you want me to take a dump in a box and mark it guaranteed, I will. I got spare time. But for now, for your customer's sake, for your daughter's sake, ya might wanna think about buying a quality product from me.

Ted Nelson, Customer: [pause] Okay, I'll buy from you.



With the crazy price raises going on with S&B and more high end entrants into the high end Tactical scope market...........Its hard to look at S&B with their price & warranty when there are so many other good options out there for less money, and lifetime warranties. Maybe scopes like the BEAST will force them to come back to reality, but who knows. Optics companies come and go, get sold and broken up..........I would rather not be sitting on a $4K paperweight that is out of warranty and needs to be sent half way around the globe for service.
Click to expand...

Do you ever say anything positive? Or do you just bring everything down to your little level. Contribute some, would ya?
 
I had a S&B PM II that had to go back to S&B twice for the same problem. After the first repair, it held for a few months...then it broke again. So far (knock on iron wood), the second repair has held up. I don't abuse my optics in any way. I don't shoot them on piston guns and I certainly don't drag them behind a truck for any reason. 2 year warranty on this level of optic is shite. Luckily, all the S&B's I bought were during the 30 year era...hopefully, they honor it. And in all honesty, after reading the thread on the Steiner T5Xi, I can't imagine buying another S&B...$6K-$7K for a 3-27x? Really?
 
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^^^^^ I'm in the same boat with 2 flawless S&Bs I love, but anxiously waiting for the Steiner 5-25X T5Xi and Vortex Razor HD
4.5-27X to show up for some range time, hopefully, by this Fall!
 
NevadaZielmeister said:
Do you ever say anything positive? Or do you just bring everything down to your little level. Contribute some, would ya?
Click to expand...

Lighten up Francis.

It's a very valid point, obviously as other posters are saying essentially the same thing. Where is YOUR contribution to this thread again? Didn't think so.

If I wanted advice/Lip from a insurance salesman, I would call USAA.
 
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Warranty is limited to 10 Years by European Law. "Lifetime Warranty" therefore can't be given. I personally don't think that Issues that show after 2 Years are typical Manufacturing Defects (these are covered by the Warranty), but Wear and Tear. However, the Big Companies always have been great for me and I can't knock anyone of them. Even if the Warranty was over.

I only had Problems with Chinese Stuff and I try to stay away from that from now on.
 
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Cobracutter said:
Lighten up Francis.

It's a very valid point, obviously as other posters are saying essentially the same thing. Where is YOUR contribution to this thread again? Didn't think so.

If I wanted advice/Lip from a insurance salesman, I would call USAA.
Click to expand...

Gosh, such stupid ignorance, man, hard to deal with, but here goes:

You don't know shit, and even if you did, you wouldn't. Keep guessing at what I do for a living, but at least I filled out my profile. Unlike the bullshit you shovel.

And I did contribute, showing how great the customer service is with firsthand experience with Schmidt and Bender. I will let the readers decide. But there is a growing group of people who are sick and tired of your bullshit, Turdcutter. So when I say contribute, contribute in a POSITIVE way instead of just badmouthing everything.

I'm done here. You can pick your ass up off the ground, brush it off, then hang on the lead portion of your rear. Your welcome, drive forward.
 
You guys be careful. Some might think that this is turning into a US Optics thread having to talk about using warranty on a S&B....... :D
 
I was just looking at the German Made Minox scopes, their warranty is quite simple and easy to understand, and the last time I checked Germany was still in Europe:

From the date of registration, your product will be protected against manufacturing defects and functional failures for a duration of 30 years. Please remember, your product must be registered within 30 days from the date of purchase.
 
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