Suppressors Steps to a nfa trust purchase!!!!

[dawson08]

So i have searched and came up with little info. But I'm sure it has been asked to death. ANYWAY what I am wanted is more less (I know each somewhat is diffrent) a STEP by STEP process for purchasing a Supressor with a trust. I.E. Starting the trust, Purchasing the suppressor(does the dealer help you in anyway) File the Forms with ATF. In what order and how is this all done?

 

[Finris]

I would go to a dealer who sales what it is you want to buy and ask about an attorney who they could recommend. I would just go from there.

 

[wfjames22]

1. Find attorney that writes NFA trusts
2. Get trust from above mentioned attorney
3. Find local class 3 dealer (preferably with what you want in stock)
4. Purchase can/sbr/mg from said dealer
5. Give dealer copy of trust and $200 check for ATF
6. Dealer fills out paperwork and mails to ATF with your check
7. About one month after check clears (confirmed w/bank), call ATF to make sure application is in pending status
8. Approx 5-6 months later, dealer will call and let you know your approved form 1 or 4 with stamp has arrived
9. Go pick up your NFA item from dealer with interesting 6 pack of beer/bourbon/etc for him and have one of aforementioned beverages to celebrate culmination of ignorant/cumbersome process
10. Make multiple copies of your approved forms and have one readily accessible whenever you are using/transporting your can/sbr/mg
11. Update your schedule A (or whatever your trust calls it...might be assignment of property/etc) with your new hardware
12. Buy many more NFA items...and each time repeat 4-11 from above

YMMV....but that's the process I follow.

 

[dawson08]

1. Find attorney that writes NFA trusts
2. Get trust from above mentioned attorney
3. Find local class 3 dealer (preferably with what you want in stock)
4. Purchase can/sbr/mg from said dealer
5. Give dealer copy of trust and $200 check for ATF
6. Dealer fills out paperwork and mails to ATF with your check
7. About one month after check clears (confirmed w/bank), call ATF to make sure application is in pending status
8. Approx 5-6 months later, dealer will call and let you know your approved form 1 or 4 with stamp has arrived
9. Go pick up your NFA item from dealer with interesting 6 pack of beer/bourbon/etc for him and have one of aforementioned beverages to celebrate culmination of ignorant/cumbersome process
10. Make multiple copies of your approved forms and have one readily accessible whenever you are using/transporting your can/sbr/mg
11. Update your schedule A (or whatever your trust calls it...might be assignment of property/etc) with your new hardware
12. Buy many more NFA items...and each time repeat 4-11 from above

YMMV....but that's the process I follow.

^^^^^This is what I was looking for THANK YOU...althought step 9 knowing my class 3 he will want Peach Naval Wine Coolers.....:0

 

[WileyG]

Personally, I handle #5 and #6 differently. My dealer fills out the Form 4 and mails it to me. I write a check and mail all the stuff to ATF. I've read too many stories of dealers not mailing forms for months after the buyer thought they were mailed. if I mail it anything that screws up beyond that is on me.

 

[Armordude]

Sorrynfor digging up an old post but here goes:

My Class III dealer handles my trust. Merchant Firearms ? From Practical to Tactical or Mild to Wild in PHX sells tons of Class III item and they have the trust paperwork on their computer system. Its approved by the county, state and the ATF. I think it cost $25 for them to create the trust in AZ. They do a brisk business business.

 

[3gunGUY]

Sorrynfor digging up an old post but here goes:

My Class III dealer handles my trust. Merchant Firearms ? From Practical to Tactical or Mild to Wild in PHX sells tons of Class III item and they have the trust paperwork on their computer system. Its approved by the county, state and the ATF. I think it cost $25 for them to create the trust in AZ. They do a brisk business business.

Do they create the trusts themselves or do they have a lawyer do it? For $25 I highly doubt a lawyer is involved in the process. I'm pretty sure it is illegal--or at the very least regulated by the bar association--in Arizona to be practicing law without a license. I would definitely have it done by an attorney before I trust (no pun) any gun shop with my legal documents.

 

[Armordude]

I will see if I can get them to respond here.

Do they create the trusts themselves or do they have a lawyer do it? For $25 I highly doubt a lawyer is involved in the process. I'm pretty sure it is illegal--or at the very least regulated by the bar association--in Arizona to be practicing law without a license. I would definitely have it done by an attorney before I trust (no pun) any gun shop with my legal documents.

 

[timelinex]

Do they create the trusts themselves or do they have a lawyer do it? For $25 I highly doubt a lawyer is involved in the process. I'm pretty sure it is illegal--or at the very least regulated by the bar association--in Arizona to be practicing law without a license. I would definitely have it done by an attorney before I trust (no pun) any gun shop with my legal documents.

I'm guessing they do what most other dealers do.... They just have a sample trust on file that has worked before and hand that one out. Our maybe they had a lawyer draft a generic trust for them to distribute.

A trust for nfa reasons is a copy paste procedure. A 'custom' nfa trust won't be much different than a generic one. Legal is legal. I bet most the nfa trust lawyers just use a generic trust themselves and just put your name on it. If you make it out to be anything else, then hey, whatever helps you sleep at night. No judgement passed here.

 

[sidewaysil80]

I'm guessing they do what most other dealers do.... They just have a sample trust on file that has worked before and hand that one out. Our maybe they had a lawyer draft a generic trust for them to distribute.

A trust for nfa reasons is a copy paste procedure. A 'custom' nfa trust won't be much different than a generic one. Legal is legal. I bet most the nfa trust lawyers just use a generic trust themselves and just put your name on it. If you make it out to be anything else, then hey, whatever helps you sleep at night. No judgement passed here.

This, I personally know of 3 people who used the "quicken will maker trust" (which I'm doing this weekend) and they've been approved no problem. I've only read one issue online out of the thousands of quicken trusts and it was because the state trust law/rules changed after said quicken trust was accepted by ATF and changes had to be made.

 

[3gunGUY]

All I am saying is that this type of behavior is legal quicksand. Personally, I would never have a gun dealer give me any type of legal advice. While they might be well intentioned with what they are doing; I question their motives.

 

[gunfreak101]

Use guntrust lawyer on the web and they will set you up with a lawyer in your state. I did this (cost 600.00) and i am very glad I can hook you up if you live in Alabama.

 

[AZGunLaw]

I am very familiar with Merchant Firearms and they use a warmed over Quicken Willmaker trust. It is absolutely the unauthorized practice of law - they are preparing legal documents for others without being an attorney. Of course, they do so in order to sell their suppressors. This is not a good idea for several reasons of course, 1) it is illegal, 2) they are going to get sued and lose if there is ever a problem with the trust (say two beneficiaries of the trust are fighting and sue each other, then the loser sues Merchant), and 3) the trust is bare bones legal with no extra bells and whistles.

In full disclosure, I am an attorney and have drafted several hundred gun trusts in the first 8 months of 2014 alone. I despise gun store trusts like, not because they are legally deficient, because they aren't - most probably meet the basic 11 legal requirements to be legal in Arizona. I despise them because a gun trust CAN be soooo much more than that - they can do far more than simply avoiding fingerprints and CLEO signatures, but they aren't being used that way most of the time. Most gun trusts die when you die, but they don't have to. About half the trusts I draft will last for about 500 years in Arizona - that means a persons firearms collection (title 1, title 2, ammo, and accessories) is passed down from generation to generation without ATF or court interference. We can avoid probate and NFA transfer paperwork (including ATF form 5 paperwork which is not technically a "transfer" according to ATF) all the way through. We can even protect the gun collection from future government bans - bans like the 1994 AWB or the new Colorado ban on "high-capacity magazines" (really they are standard capacity magazines). Plus, a gun trust can have all sorts of custom provisions if the client wants or needs them. That said, not everyone needs custom provisions. Some people are just fine with a simple trust. Not every gun owner needs a Nighthawk 1911 - for some people a Hi-Point will suffice because it is a "gun." If all you want is a "gun" - then a Hi-Point works. If all you want is a "gun trust" - then a gun store trust works. It all just depends on what a person needs and wants.

And for the record, the maker of Quicken Willmaker, NOLO, says not to use it for guns: Can I use a Nolo living trust to make a gun trust? - Nolo.com