230gr Hybrid Target

[Bigwheels]

I would have put this in the loading section, but thought it would get the audience I'm looking for here instead.
I'm about to start load development for the 230's in my 300WM with H-1000. My previous load was 73.5-74.1gr H-1000 under Hornadys 225 HPBT seated .005" off the lands.(2836fps) My question is. For those of you who have loads for this, where does the bullet like to be loaded? Touching, .002" off, .010" off? More?(looking for consensus)
Also given my 225's load, & the similarity between the two bullets, I'm planning to start a ladder test @ 72gr, & work up in .3gr inc to 74.5. Then maybe more if pressure allows.(bearing surface is shorter than the 225's) I'll take the most promising node, & round robin to get the OCW, & round robin again for seating depth.
Any specs you can provide will be appreciated.
Thanks.

 

[WhiteHunter]

I set mine 0.004" off in the .300 Norma - it produced 0.55MOA straight away at 1000. My reason for not engaging into the lands is that a cartridge can be unchambered without issue in the field and the lower shot start pressure when developing the load. Hope this helps.

 

[Aimsmall55]

75.5 Retumbo. 230 targets also have a secant type ogive. I had a hard time " tweaking them "but finally got it with them touching lands. The 230 otms were much easier make shoot....

 

[Bigwheels]

I thought they were a secant that transitioned to a tangent @ the top of the bearing surface. Hence the Hybrid. How much trouble did you have getting them to shoot?

 

[Goin'Hot]

I shot some groups at 300 and found 0.003" off the lands is where they like to be in my rifle. I went all the way out to 0.050" off and found as the distance off the lands increased, the horizontal would open up. Although, the vertical actually got better. I'm pushing them at 3000 fps out of a 300 NM Improved.

 

[magnum_99]

I ended up at . 010 off the lands and 74.0 grs. of H1000. Velocity is a mild 2740 fps but group sizes are in the .3 inch range. I did test loads up to 75.5 grains and had no pressure signs and was around 2850 fps but didn't test for accuracy with that load. I believe 2900 fps is doable but accuracy will need to be tested.

 

[Aimsmall55]

I thought they were a secant that transitioned to a tangent @ the top of the bearing surface. Hence the Hybrid. How much trouble did you have getting them to shoot?

Took me about 20 loads to find the seating depth at 100. Then I found my charge weight at 500 yards. 75.5 was the best group. I think it was a little under 2 inches

 

[Bigwheels]

I hope they aren't that picky in my rifle. I'm going for the OCW first, then I'll run the seating depth. So far, sounds like they like to be close, but not jammed. I'll take that into account as I go. I think I'll do the initial ladder test with them touching the lands, & see where it goes.

 

[Aimsmall55]

I hope they aren't that picky in my rifle. I'm going for the OCW first, then I'll run the seating depth. So far, sounds like they like to be close, but not jammed. I'll take that into account as I go. I think I'll do the initial ladder test with them touching the lands, & see where it goes.

Any updates on the 230 bergers ????

 

[Bigwheels]

Sorry. Work, & life has been crazy for a while. I'm going out for the ladder test tomorrow. Going to go from 72-74.5 gr of H-1000 & seated touching the lands to start.

 

[Bigwheels]

Ok. I just got back with results from the 1st test. 2 rifles, both 300WM chambered by the same smith. Mine has over 2500 rnds through it, & his is brand new, maybe only 10 rnds 'till today.
My 1st 3 rnds @ 432 yds were only 1 1/4" vertical spread by 1 1/8" horizontal, & #2, & #3 were right on top of each other with only 5/8" vertical spread. These were 72.3, & 72.6 gr respectively. There was another promising node @ #7-#9 as well with only a 1" vertical spread, but horizontal was about 4". I had some mirage, & wind during the latter part of the test, so I can't say it was definitive, but the 72.3-72.6 node was done with minimal mirage, & almost no wind, so I'm going to run a round robin with this node in the next several days. Work has been hectic for me lately.
My buddies also showed promise around 72.5 gr as well, so he is going to run from there with his as well.

 

[Bigwheels]

Another update.
Just got back from the range after round robin a few nodes from the ladder. I had 3 loads @ 74.0-74.3 that had 2 touching, & the 3rd just outside. This was in tricky winds, & bright sun, & heavy mirage @ 200 yds. I probably wont get another chance to test more 'till next weekend, but things are looking promising. Also that node in the 74gr is chronying @ 2850-2860fps. This should be super sonic to 2000+ yds.

 

[cjgemm]

Another update.
Just got back from the range after round robin a few nodes from the ladder. I had 3 loads @ 74.0-74.3 that had 2 touching, & the 3rd just outside. This was in tricky winds, & bright sun, & heavy mirage @ 200 yds. I probably wont get another chance to test more 'till next weekend, but things are looking promising. Also that node in the 74gr is chronying @ 2850-2860fps. This should be super sonic to 2000+ yds.

Barrel length?

 

[Bigwheels]

28" Kreiger 1:10" tw.

 

[Shoalwater]

Bigwheels, what did your COL end up at? I'm trying to decide if I want my next build to be a 300WM based on this bullet or go with a 338LM and the 300gr Bergers. If I can get the kind of speed you are, with great accuracy, no real reason to do a 338, as its only about .3 mils (about 19") difference in 10mph wind at a mile (based on 300gr Berger at 2850fps) Kind of want to do the 300WM just to prove some buddies wrong, they think you have to have a 338 to get on steel consistently at a mile.

 

[Bigwheels]

I have not finished my load development yet but I'm touching the lands @ 2.845" to the ogive. I'm going out tomorrow morning to hopefully finish my development. I'll report back when I'm finished.

 

[BGE541]

Loaded mine same COAL as the 230 OTM with the same primer/charge and is spot on. Have target pictures up of it in the Rifle for Sale thread...

 

[Aimsmall55]

I haven't played with mine lately. Been recovering from ankle surgery. But with 75.2 Retumbo I'm getting a tad over 3000 fps with the otms out of a 30" broughton 5c 1:10. It's a hammer

 

[aspen69]

Glad I found this thread . Going to start working up a load for this bullet soon as well . Going to use H1000 as well due to having a decent supply . Will probably test all the way to 76 gr. Anyone running at or around that weight of powder ?

 

[Bigwheels]

This morning wasn't as promising as I had hoped. Best 2 groups were around 1 1/2" @ 200 yds with most of that vertical. Looks like I'll have to look for another node around the 75gr area. Just to make sure after I finished with the test I threw 2 of my standard Hornady 225's out there. As expected. Touching with a .5" outside to outside spread.

 

[Aimsmall55]

This morning wasn't as promising as I had hoped. Best 2 groups were around 1 1/2" @ 200 yds with most of that vertical. Looks like I'll have to look for another node around the 75gr area. Just to make sure after I finished with the test I threw 2 of my standard Hornady 225's out there. As expected. Touching with a .5" outside to outside spread.

No offense. But have you considered just sticking with the 225's? I understand that extra bc is alluring but me personally .... I hate having to tweak a load. Sounds you got the 225's nailed. Again just my opinion. Good luck. AS

 

[Aimsmall55]

Bigwheels, what did your COL end up at? I'm trying to decide if I want my next build to be a 300WM based on this bullet or go with a 338LM and the 300gr Bergers. If I can get the kind of speed you are, with great accuracy, no real reason to do a 338, as its only about .3 mils (about 19") difference in 10mph wind at a mile (based on 300gr Berger at 2850fps) Kind of want to do the 300WM just to prove some buddies wrong, they think you have to have a 338 to get on steel consistently at a mile.

Here's you a good comparison. This is one mile..... 10 mph crosswind.

 

[Aimsmall55]

Here's another.

 

[Bigwheels]

Actually, the ONLY reason I'm giving the 230's a try is they are available. I haven't seen any 225's in stock for months. The added BC will be great, IF I can get them to shoot as well as the 225's, but so far the testing conditions have been terrible, exc for the last trip. At least now I know the loads I tested yesterday are NOT it. I haven't seen any pressure yet, so I'll go another grain higher, & see what happens.

 

[Shoalwater]

Bigwheel, will you COL allow you to magazine feed? I have an action, bottom metal, and AICS mags that I could use, but I think I can only get like 3.625" COL in the mag.

 

[Bigwheels]

I can. But I have a long magazine. I have some room to spare.

 

[Aimsmall55]

Bigwheel, will you COL allow you to magazine feed? I have an action, bottom metal, and AICS mags that I could use, but I think I can only get like 3.625" COL in the mag.

3.625 is plenty.

 

[Bigwheels]

I was able to get out again to test some from 74.5-75.0 gr. @ 200 yd. The 74.8-75.0 was looking pretty good considering the less than ideal conditions. Range won't let us shoot before 09:00, so there was some mirage, & light wind this time, but vertical was down to about 1/2", & horizontal was about 1-1 1/2". I'm going to run some with 74.9gr seated .005-.020" off the lands on fri, & see if things will tighten up. I haven't chrony'd any since the 1st batch, but I'm guessing I'm going to be in the 2860-2870 ish range with this charge.

 

[Aimsmall55]

My partner is trying out the 230 Hybrids....he hit his first 1 mile target yesterday (actually 1800yds).

How fast are you guys getting them? I'm curious what is considered fast and what is slow?

We are running 75gr and getting a Shooter guestimated/corrected velocity of 2725fps.

His 300WM/Horus equiped MK4 in front...my 308/700 with in back Premier does a better job of spotting than my USO.

First of all that looks like an Awsome place to shoot...
I'm running them at around 2975 with Retumbo and Norma brass out of a 30" Broughton 5c. I think the Coal is 3.715". I built the rig for the 230's. I've pretty much quit shooting them though. I can make the rifle shoot better with the 230 otms. 3,000 fps with those. Farthest I've shot the hybrids is 1200 yards and they shot great but they are so damn picky about seating depth I
Just quit A) I can't find em B) I have a ton of the OTM s

 

[Bigwheels]

I am getting 2840 with the hornady 225's & should be in the 2860's with the 230's. I will chrony my next session with the seating depth test. So far I'm not real impressed with them. The bc. IS AWESOME but I'm getting better accuracy with the 225's. At least so far. I'll report back with the results of my testing on fri.

 

[Bigwheels]

I have settled on 74.9gr of H-1000 seated .015" off the lands. I shot the seating depth test this morning, & flubbed the last shot on the .015" off load, & I knew it the second the gun went off. But the 1st 2 shots were .6" apart @ 200yd.
I also ran them by the chrony at the same time, & averaged 2901 fps. I have to verify zero, & MV on Sunday, then it's off to do some long range testing befor the mile comp next Saturday.

 

[Aimsmall55]

I have settled on 74.9gr of H-1000 seated .015" off the lands. I shot the seating depth test this morning, & flubbed the last shot on the .015" off load, & I knew it the second the gun went off. But the 1st 2 shots were .6" apart @ 200yd.
I also ran them by the chrony at the same time, & averaged 2901 fps. I have to verify zero, & MV on Sunday, then it's off to do some long range testing befor the mile comp next Saturday.

Bigwheels.... What is your COAL...? I was running some scenarios on quickload today and may switch to H1000. It looked more ballistically efficient.

 

[Bigwheels]

I'm at 2.830" to the Ogive, & 3.6" COAL.

 

[BGE541]

I have 350, 230gr Berger Hyprids looking for a new home... $175 shipped. LMK if anyones interested.

 

[Bigwheels]

PM sent on the 230's.

 

[MSTN]

LMK if the 230's are still available, please.

 

[Bigwheels]

As an update, my friend & I just shot an ELR match on Saturday with the 230Hy/Tgt. Ranges were from 750 for the shortest to 1645 as the longest. I finished in first place, & my friend finished second. We were both running the 230's @ 2900, & 2933fps. His load was plenty accurate but proved to be too hot with several gas leaks around the primers. Mine was still on the warm side @ 2901fps but acceptable with no pressure signs. Arrayed against us were an assortment of 338's, a 300Wby, & some 6.5's, etc. So the first two places were 230's out of 300WM, & third was another friend of mine running a 338LM with 300 Bergers. Weather was excelent for the Pac NW with temps in the mid to high 70's & winds were mostly light but there were multiple wind columns in opposite, & or different directions. St pressure was in the 25.7's"hg @ the upper elevations to 27.4's @ the lower levels & Humidity was mostly in the 50% range. Using FFS on my PDA I was able to get several 1st rnd hits inc. one on the 1645yd tgt. After the 1st rnd hit, I missed one, & then hit the next 3 in a row on a turkey that was about 30" wide X 24" tall.

 

[Broz]

Congrats to both of you! So you are getting 2900 plus with 230's from 300 win mags? May I ask what powder, charge weight, and tube length?

Thanks and congrats again!!

Jeff

 

[Bigwheels]

Thanks!
My load is
74.9 gr H-1000
Moly'd 230 Hybrid tgt seated .015" off the lands
Win brass & WLRM primers
Krieger 28" 1:10" tw.
Not positive on his load but its in the 75's gr of H-1000. Its too hot. His rifle is a 26" 1:10"tw Bench Mark brl.

 

[Broz]

Thanks!
My load is
74.9 gr H-1000
Moly'd 230 Hybrid tgt seated .015" off the lands
Win brass & WLRM primers
Krieger 28" 1:10" tw.
Not positive on his load but its in the 75's gr of H-1000. Its too hot. His rifle is a 26" 1:10"tw Bench Mark brl.

Those are awesome velocities. We saw pressure just above 72 gr of H-1000 in our 28" Broughton. So we stopped at 72 gr and a velocity of 2775.

Thanks!
Jeff

 

[briang7511]

Thanks!
My load is
74.9 gr H-1000
Moly'd 230 Hybrid tgt seated .015" off the lands
Win brass & WLRM primers
Krieger 28" 1:10" tw.
Not positive on his load but its in the 75's gr of H-1000. Its too hot. His rifle is a 26" 1:10"tw Bench Mark brl.

I just purchased some of these 230's 2 weeks ago and begining testing myself. Using same powder as well. Good to hear they doing well for you and hope i can acheive the same results. Can you post a pic of your rig?

 

[Bigwheels]

Sure.

 

[ARKEMAXUS]

Awesome, I bought a bunch of 215 berger hybrids for my .300WM and after reading this I guess I'll trade 'em out for the 230's. Thanks for the details Bigwheels.

 

[Bigwheels]

If you can find any...

 

[ARKEMAXUS]

If you can find any...

yeah, relatively easy to come by in Littleton,Co area

 

[Bigwheels]

I can't find any online now & no one around here stocks any either.

 

[ARKEMAXUS]

I hate to over think it, but I'm going back and forth on the 215 target and the 230 target. The .743bc of the 230's is awesome but if I can push the 215's 125fps faster it's super close. I'm not that concerned about wind drift since the 215's are already so good and my wind formula works very well. Thoughts anyone? Have a 26" barrel, Lawton action .300 that is an awesome shooter.

 

[Bigwheels]

I'd think it would depend on how far you want go with it. If only out to about 1500 yds, & you can get the 215 into the high 2800's at least they will do you fine. Past there the 230's BC will outshine them. Myself, I have gone from the 220 SMK, to the 210 VLD, to the 208 A Max, to the 225 HPBT, & now the 230 Hybrid Target. I have been able to get all of them going faster than most with same length brl in my rifle, & am getting 2901 out of the 230's. I was getting 2836 with the 225's, but the shorter bearing surface on the 230's has allowed me to get them going faster. I'd say give both a try, & see what MV you can get with each, & make the decision from there. You never know, one might not like your rifle, while the other does.

 

[ARKEMAXUS]

Interesting, I didn't know the 230's had a shorter bearing surface. One of my (small) considerations was barrel life, I read an article awhile ago (forget the authors name) that heavier bullets reduce barrel life more than high muzzle velocities with smaller bullets because there's more bearing surface, thus more friction shot for shot than with a smaller bullet. I'm not that worried about barrel life, barrels are easily replaced. At 7500 ft. elev. where I shoot 215's or 230's loaded right are still super-sonic to around 2500 yards give or take depending on ammo/ambient temps. I'm just like you and like to push it as far as it will go. In the end it does come down to exactly what you said, test 'em both in your gun and see what the results are...

Also, what's up with the moly? Do you moly your own bullets or do they come that way?
Do you find the G1 or G7 drag model more accurate in your software? I know G7 is recommended for the berger vld's but what's your experience Bigwheels?

 

[Bigwheels]

I moly my own. I have been moly'n all my magnums for many years. As for G1, VS G7 I use the G1 because FFS doesn't allow for a G7 in the software. I also have the shooter app, & have tested them head to head from sea level to 5600 ft, & the shooter app doesn't work past 1000yds. Given the 2 were trued from a 100yd zero out to 1250yds at my usual spot @ 1200' +/- and then moved across the mountains to a hunting spot, & tested again out to 1800yds @ 5600'. FFS was accurate within less than 1/2 moa while the shooter app was off by over 2 moa out there. Inside 1000yds they were both within the rifles accuracy potential. In my experience any solution using a point mass equation won't be accurate past 1000yds. That's why I use FFS. I understand that cold bore works well too but I haven't ever used it myself.