Suppressors Thunderbeast 30P-1 / Rem700P LTR / POI Info

[bh-ltr]

In the for what its worth category I just took my rifle to the range after receiving my suppressor to obtain some initial zero information and I thought I'd share.

Rifle:
Remington 700P LTR
.308 Caliber
19.75" Fluted Barrel Threaded 5/8x24

Ammo:
New (never fired) Lapua Brass
175 grain Sierra Match King
44.5 grains of Varget
CCI Large Rifle Primer
2.80" COAL

Velocity results of 3 rounds over an Oehler 35P gave an average of 2539 fps. Using this velocity has been close but using the Applied Ballistics trajectory calibration gives me a better fit using 2616.55 fps.

Primary Zero was obtained using a Holland Radial Muzzle Brake.

With brake removed and thread protector installed zero is <b>-0.5mil</b> (Impacts are 1.8" high at 100 yards with my zero).

with suppressor installed zero is <b>+1.1mil</b> (Impacts are 3.96" low at 100 yards with my zero)

All three configurations held well sub MOA and there was no horizontal component to the POI shifts.

I use applied ballistics for Android and enter these as three separate "bullets" with each having different zero heights at 100 yards. I shoot most with the brake installed and thus that is what I use as my scope adjusted zero. Thankfully my S&B scope allows me 5 clicks down from my zero before the zero stop and that puts my non-brake zero right on the stop.

Anyway its not like much of this information can be directly used by anyone but I hope that some one at least finds it interesting or a point of reference for comparison. If anyone is using it for comparison please share your numbers so that I may get the same comparison experience.

Thanks

~Brett

 

[Zak Smith]

The way I read this you are reporting 1.6 mils from no muzzle device to the can. That is larger than normal. I would recommend having the threads and shoulder checked out.

 

[gixxerk8]

My 30p-1 on a remmy 5r with the same bullet as yours is a 1/4" difference with and without can at 100 yds.

 

[bh-ltr]

I trust the smith that did the work. Is there something specific I should check? The shoulder seems to fit flush with the can and the threads are fairly tight before the can is fully tightened. My smith said that he could have gotten the theads tighter if he had the can when he'd threaded it but I didn't have that option. The brake that he threaded it to match fits very tight to the threads before the brake is tight. I've attached a picture of the installed brake which fits very nice and flush to the barrel with a smooth transition.

I remember being surprised by how much of a change there was from the brake to nothing installed at all. Looking back at my notes I zeroed my rifle a few months back (when I got the brake) with the brake installed. I then took the brake off and shot with no thread protector (just exposed threads) and my group was 3.5" high at 100 yards. Thats a full mil difference. Seems odd that the thread protector which is just a light weight knurled off the shelf thing would make a .5 mil difference. Perhaps I need to head to the range again tomorrow and revalidate this data. But like I mentioned all groups were sub MOA (even with pulled shots) ones where I didn't pull a shot were sub half MOA.

~Brett

 

[bh-ltr]

I went and checked things out and the shoulder looks pretty good. Able to get a feeler gauge all the way around and things are fairly close. The only imperfection is because the threads don't hold perfectly tight before you're up against the shoulder. I did find that the area around the crown was fairly dirty and I've cleaned the hell out of that. Also cleaning the hell out of the bore tonight. I'll head to the range again tomorrow and see if anything changes. Still though I remember being amazed that the brake would drop the round 3.5" at 100 yards when I first got it so I wasn't that surprised that the suppressor was a somewhat large change. When i go tomorrow I'll shoot in 4 different manners. Threads open, threads protected, brake, and suppressed. I'd like to see if the thread protector has a half mil change which would align with my range notes.

~Brett

 

[WRH51]

You need to look at the thread specs on TBAC website. Pretty sure the can is supposed to be tight against the shoulder of the barrel. It doesn't look like there is and undercut behind the threads either. Link below.

What are the thread specs for 5/8-24 ? | Thunder Beast Arms Forum

 

[bh-ltr]

I gave this to the smith when I asked him to thread it. I'm .0035 short on the .6" length. The threads are good but I dont have the .06" non threaded section just before the shoulder. Not sure if he did that for his brake or what but I can't imagine that that would make a huge difference.

~Brett

 

[Zak Smith]

In the second and third photos in the last post, the suppressor is not shouldered. Is this how it is when you are shooting it, or did you take the photo this way to illustrate something else?

The threads should not be super tight and the threads are not what holds the can straight- the shoulder does. If the shoulder is not at exactly a 90 degree angle to the bore you will likely have problems.

However... If you are seeing a mil difference by just adding a few ounces of thread protector to an otherwise bare muzzle, your load is probably hitting just the "wrong" spot in the vibration of your barrel/action.

 

[WRH51]

I gave this to the smith when I asked him to thread it. I'm .0035 short on the .6" length. The threads are good but I dont have the .06" non threaded section just before the shoulder. Not sure if he did that for his brake or what but I can't imagine that that would make a huge difference.

~Brett

Your can should "bottom out" against the shoulder. You should have a gap between the can and shoulder. It sounds like you can is tightening up against the threads themselves where the tooling was coming out of or into the cut.

 

[bh-ltr]

Picture was taken to illustrate that the shoulder was an equal gap all the way around. When shooting the suppressor does bottom out on the shoulder. There is only a small bit of thread movement until it hits the shoulder and then once its solid on the shoulder everything is solid.

Cleaned the hell out of it last night and took it out again today. The thread protector isn't making much difference.

Initial zero with muzzle brake.
Open threads impact 0.5 mil high
Thread protector impact 0.5 mil high
Suppressor 0.9 mil low

Not sure how well you'll be able to see the picture it looks good if you can zoom in on it. There were a bunch of people at the range today and I didn't want to cease fire to walk down and take a pic of the target. So what I got was a through the scope pic.

The first target was shot at the top right corner. This was to quickly rezero even though it was off by a bit when i stopped could have come down another tenth (last night I losened my caps and retightened them to get the gaps even on both sides). Then the bottom right target was shot with open threads. Then the bottom left target was shot with the thread protector. Then the top left target was shot with the suppressor. That hole is actually 4 shots through the suppressor and they all fell into a single hole. So whatever the shift is its very consistent.

Perhaps its time to do a ladder test rather than OCW for load development. Probably also time to redo the load development again with the muzzle brake in place.

~Brett

 

[bh-ltr]

I did get a chance also to shoot a suppressed 10 shot group at 200y. Took a picture of the target but don't know the size references here so can't really get group size. Not my finest work but not terrible for 10 shots.

If you assume that those patch stickers are 1" stickers then using On-Target this measures out as a max spread center to center of 2.050 inches or 0.979 MOA. Thats not bad considering that it was shot somewhat quickly and I was fighting barrel mirage pretty bad at the end. Not to mention that its just a factory barreled LTR.

Lame. The forum seems to really shrink up and muck with the images as they're uploaded.

 

[ccoker]

Are you running factory ammo or hand loads?
Me and a buddy both have LTRs and both shoot sub MOA with several factory loads and mine will do one hole groups with handloads.

Just curious

 

[aaldape]

I'll be sure to post up my results when I get my 30p-1. It will be going on a factory-threaded Rem 700 barrel... Thanks for posting this.

 

[bh-ltr]

Are you running factory ammo or hand loads?
Me and a buddy both have LTRs and both shoot sub MOA with several factory loads and mine will do one hole groups with handloads.

Just curious

Hand loads. Read the first post and the hand load data is there. I should note that the gun does get a bit more accurate when I'm shooting the brass for the second time and I've sized it in my die setup to better match the chamber. Thankfully the Lapua brass is only virgin once.

 

[jpistolero02]

I shoot a 30P-1 on a .223 and 6.5x47. The same smith did both threads and my rifle shoots 2" lower at 100 with the suppressor on. I have never worried about it because it's repeatable and the rifles shoot great. I always shoot with them on now that I have been spoiled. Almost had my best group at 903 yards the other day with the 6.5. First shot low was first round of the day with a clean bore. Next 5 were fired after adjusting.

 

[sic65stang]

I have a rem700 varmint that with the can attached will shift directly low 6 Moa. The groups remain the same. I came to the conclusion it happens simply because the extra weight on the end of the barrel. I. Is consistent and repeatable so I just take that into account when shooting suppressed.

 

[KYS]

I went and checked things out and the shoulder looks pretty good. Able to get a feeler gauge all the way around and things are fairly close. The only imperfection is because the threads don't hold perfectly tight before you're up against the shoulder. I did find that the area around the crown was fairly dirty and I've cleaned the hell out of that. Also cleaning the hell out of the bore tonight. I'll head to the range again tomorrow and see if anything changes. Still though I remember being amazed that the brake would drop the round 3.5" at 100 yards when I first got it so I wasn't that surprised that the suppressor was a somewhat large change. When i go tomorrow I'll shoot in 4 different manners. Threads open, threads protected, brake, and suppressed. I'd like to see if the thread protector has a half mil change which would align with my range notes.

~Brett

Are you saying you actually shoot the rifle with the suppressor like that?! That suppressor should be shouldered up against the barrel. You should get NO shims in between the can and the barrels shoulder!!!!!!!!

 

[KYS]

Picture was taken to illustrate that the shoulder was an equal gap all the way around. When shooting the suppressor does bottom out on the shoulder. There is only a small bit of thread movement until it hits the shoulder and then once its solid on the shoulder everything is solid.

Cleaned the hell out of it last night and took it out again today. The thread protector isn't making much difference.

Initial zero with muzzle brake.
Open threads impact 0.5 mil high
Thread protector impact 0.5 mil high
Suppressor 0.9 mil low

Not sure how well you'll be able to see the picture it looks good if you can zoom in on it. There were a bunch of people at the range today and I didn't want to cease fire to walk down and take a pic of the target. So what I got was a through the scope pic.

The first target was shot at the top right corner. This was to quickly rezero even though it was off by a bit when i stopped could have come down another tenth (last night I losened my caps and retightened them to get the gaps even on both sides). Then the bottom right target was shot with open threads. Then the bottom left target was shot with the thread protector. Then the top left target was shot with the suppressor. That hole is actually 4 shots through the suppressor and they all fell into a single hole. So whatever the shift is its very consistent.

Perhaps its time to do a ladder test rather than OCW for load development. Probably also time to redo the load development again with the muzzle brake in place.

~Brett

You can't mic that gap with you eyeballs..... you need a professional with the correct tools to check it out or you could damage your suppressor.

 

[bh-ltr]

I used a feeler gauge and it was the same on the left and right side. Its different on the top and bottom however if you simply turn the gun over the side that is off changes sides which tells me that the difference is because of thread tolerance. The setup will put 5 rounds touching one another with the suppressor on at 200 yards if I do my part.

~Brett

 

[KYS]

I used a feeler gauge and it was the same on the left and right side. Its different on the top and bottom however if you simply turn the gun over the side that is off changes sides which tells me that the difference is because of thread tolerance. The setup will put 5 rounds touching one another with the suppressor on at 200 yards if I do my part.

~Brett

Exterior measurements dont mean anything if the threads are not concentric to the bore.

 

[fdkay]

I have a 5R mil-spec and Jet Suppressor.
My rifle was shooting .8 mils high and .2 to the right, I spoke with the smith, the barrel, while accurate was just one of those that seemed hard to deal with. It wobbled significantly in the lathe.
We cut the barrel back to 20" and it tightened everything up nicely.

 

[bh-ltr]

I'll have my smith check them again as I'll be at his shop with my rifle in 1 week but I highly doubt they are an issue. I trust this smith.

 

[bh-ltr]

I have a 5R mil-spec and Jet Suppressor.
My rifle was shooting .8 mils high and .2 to the right, I spoke with the smith, the barrel, while accurate was just one of those that seemed hard to deal with. It wobbled significantly in the lathe.
We cut the barrel back to 20" and it tightened everything up nicely.

This one is already 20" so I don't want to cut it back any more. I think I'll shoot this thing for another couple K rounds and I'll swap the barrel out with a Bartlein probably 24".

~Brett

 

[KYS]

22" is the longest I would go in a 308. I think they shoot just fine at the 18.5 to 22" lengths. But it is a 308 we are talking about. That caliber has been passed up a long time ago by faster/flatter shooting calibers.

 

[bh-ltr]

So I've swapped the rifle out of the H&S Precision stock into an AICS with Viper Skins. Ended up changing the rings for a slightly higher and lighter weight set in the process. After all this the suppressor has gone from 0.9 mil low to 0.5 mil low (~1.8 inches at 100y). Perhaps my barrel wasn't as free floated as it should have been in the last stock.

~Brett

 

[KYS]

Why higher rings?

 

[bh-ltr]

the AICS cheek piece is quite a bit higher than my previous setup and when shooting up hill it was hard to get low enough so I swapped out my Badger rings with some slightly higher Seekins rings. Already sold the Badger rings to pay for the Seekins.

~Brett

 

[bh-ltr]

I shoot a 30P-1 on a .223 and 6.5x47. The same smith did both threads and my rifle shoots 2" lower at 100 with the suppressor on. I have never worried about it because it's repeatable and the rifles shoot great. I always shoot with them on now that I have been spoiled. Almost had my best group at 903 yards the other day with the 6.5. First shot low was first round of the day with a clean bore. Next 5 were fired after adjusting.

(image removed)

Are you saying that both the 223 and the 6.5mm shoot 2" low at 100? I'm really close to the 2" number now that I've swapped out my stock... Almost makes me want to put things back into the old stock to see if the problem comes back or not. Perhaps after my classes are over with I'll do that but honestly I doubt I'll mess with it if its shooting well....