What do you trim your once fired 7.62 brass to? I have 900 I got in a deal and want to start from this point forward. Deprimed,Tumbled,Swaged and Sized trim to ????
- Thread starter FNARSHOOTER
- Start date
To the same length as my other brass.
Trim to length: 2.005"
Max length: 2.015"
Min. length: 1.995"
Chris
Trim to length: 2.005"
Max length: 2.015"
Min. length: 1.995"
Chris
What Chris said. I usually trim mine to 2" even, but it's NOT a critical dimension, so long as you're under the 2.015" Max Length. It's a potential safety issue beyond this, although there's usually a fair amount of excess room to play with.
Shoot for 2.005 and try not to go over 2.009 and not under 2.000
2.005 is dead nuts perfect...... Try for 2.005 with a +/- of .002
Easy as that..
2.005 is dead nuts perfect...... Try for 2.005 with a +/- of .002
Easy as that..
FNARSHOOTER,
Bigger question than the trimming here is the sizing. Do you know whether these were fired in an MG, or something else? Stuff that's been run through an MG generally has some issues that can make standard reloading a problem, until they get sorted out. Headspace may be an issue, as well as expansion around the body. Take some time to inspect these pretty critically, gage them if at all possible (and pick up a gage if you don't already have one), and check to see that the headspace is where it should be when you set out to resize these. Go with F/L sizing at least, and a S/B die would be even better for the first go around.
Bigger question than the trimming here is the sizing. Do you know whether these were fired in an MG, or something else? Stuff that's been run through an MG generally has some issues that can make standard reloading a problem, until they get sorted out. Headspace may be an issue, as well as expansion around the body. Take some time to inspect these pretty critically, gage them if at all possible (and pick up a gage if you don't already have one), and check to see that the headspace is where it should be when you set out to resize these. Go with F/L sizing at least, and a S/B die would be even better for the first go around.
I size with small base die and trim to 2" or 2.005. Oh yeah I gauge every case for width a base and shoulder too.
Get a Sinclair chamber length gage, find out what your chamber length is, and trim the brass to that dimension?
I need to pick up a gage to measure and set all the shoulders to the same point.(any one better than the rest?) Then trim them all to 2.005.I resized a few with a full length die and they sized fine(not too much effort) what measurements should I check and what are the specs,
Thanks Scot
FYI I am reloading for a FNAR semi auto if that matters.
Thanks Scot
FYI I am reloading for a FNAR semi auto if that matters.
Oh yeah, makes a BIG difference. Reloading for any autoloader is a form of advanced handloading, like it or not, and there's some special precautions that go with this. Yes, you definately need gages for this. I'd suggest a Wilson or Dillon chamber type gage for checking the ease with which resized cases and finished ammo will chamber, as well as a Sinclair or Hornady bump type gage for actually setting up the dies. Use this to make sure you're bumping that shoulder back by at least .003" (forget about the .001", that's bolt gun territory and not compatible with autoloaders). You definitely want to go with the S/B dies for the first loading, and personally, I'd suggest using them for all ammo intended for the AR. Won't cause any problems if done correctly, and will help you sidestep several potential problems before you put your foot in them.
I dunno that a small base die would be great for ALL the time, especially if your AR chamber doesn't need it. The less you work the brass, the better, right?
Now, if that ammo WAS fired through a loose chambered MG, the small base die is good advice for the first sizing.
Sentry1,
So long as the shoulders aren't being pushed too far back, it's not a problem. And the use of S/B dies will prevent a lot of problems with autoloaders that may otherwise pop up in time. While most reloaders think about S/B sizing as being something that allows the cartridges to chamber a bit more freely, it also allows them to extract more easily as well. Can't even remember the last time I saw a bottlenecked case try to fail due to longitudinal splitting or cracking that would come from the work that the S/B dies do. On the flip side, head separations or thinning ahead of the web is very common if the shoulders are getting bumped too far. S/B 'em and let 'em run!
So long as the shoulders aren't being pushed too far back, it's not a problem. And the use of S/B dies will prevent a lot of problems with autoloaders that may otherwise pop up in time. While most reloaders think about S/B sizing as being something that allows the cartridges to chamber a bit more freely, it also allows them to extract more easily as well. Can't even remember the last time I saw a bottlenecked case try to fail due to longitudinal splitting or cracking that would come from the work that the S/B dies do. On the flip side, head separations or thinning ahead of the web is very common if the shoulders are getting bumped too far. S/B 'em and let 'em run!
Kevin,
What does the S/B die do specifically? If I've read correctly, it sizes a little further down the case, correct? Is this useful because of the BAM! extraction in a semi-auto (vs. the slower lift and pull extraction on a bolt action)?
Also, how much are you bumping your shoulders for an AR? I have been bumping .003" from the fired case length out of my AR15. I'm setting up to do the same for my MATEN.
And lastly, what are your thoughts on neck sizing? I'm considering sending my X-dies to someone (as soon as I find someone who can do it reliably) to have the necks honed to a diameter that's closer to the diameter of my loaded ammo, so the dies work the necks less.
What does the S/B die do specifically? If I've read correctly, it sizes a little further down the case, correct? Is this useful because of the BAM! extraction in a semi-auto (vs. the slower lift and pull extraction on a bolt action)?
Also, how much are you bumping your shoulders for an AR? I have been bumping .003" from the fired case length out of my AR15. I'm setting up to do the same for my MATEN.
And lastly, what are your thoughts on neck sizing? I'm considering sending my X-dies to someone (as soon as I find someone who can do it reliably) to have the necks honed to a diameter that's closer to the diameter of my loaded ammo, so the dies work the necks less.
Sentry1,
Most handlaoders assume that a F/L die restores a fired case to its original, unfired dimensions; they don't. The resized fired case is still substantially larger than a virgin, unfired case. Especially true if it was fired in an overly generous chamber (like the MG stuff we mentioned earlier), or if they die itself runs a bit on the large end of the spectrum. It isn't a problem in most chambers, but it can be in some instances. Autoloaders just send out engraved invitations to Murphy, so I'm a bit cautios with them, as a general rule. The S/B dies bring a fired case down closer to those true, virgin, unfired dimensions, and hopefully dodge those potential problems. As I mentioned before, the smaller dimensions also reduce the force required to extract the cases after firing, so it's not just an aid to easier chambering alone.
Your setback of .003" is about right for an auto. I wouldn't want to go any less, but also wouldn't push it too much more than that. Long as the gun's functioning, and your cases are giving reasonable (and this varies with the gun type!) life, you're golden. I'm not a fan of neck sizing in almost any context, and reccomend against it. It does not increase accuracy in the vast majority of guns, and doesn't really do much to extend case life, either. Add to that the fact that it invites all kinds of potential problems (Murphy, again), and it just isn't worth the potential problems. You're obviously measuring your setback already, and here's where you want to keep it close. Don't push the shoulders back more than .001"-.002" when you're loading for a bolt gun, and you've got the best of all worlds when you F/L size; good case life, accuracy, reliable feeding and chambering, the works. You're right on with your notion about the neck diamters, though, and I've done this myself with dies in the pass. Usually F/L dies, but setting the neck I.D. to work the brass as little as possible is a good plan. Most of this has become a moot point since the advent and now ready availablity of good bushing dies like those from Redding, Forster and a few others. Yeah, I like them, and I use them extensively. They'll go a long way towards getting maximum case life and still give good accuracy and correct neck tension, which is all we're after here. Go for it!
Most handlaoders assume that a F/L die restores a fired case to its original, unfired dimensions; they don't. The resized fired case is still substantially larger than a virgin, unfired case. Especially true if it was fired in an overly generous chamber (like the MG stuff we mentioned earlier), or if they die itself runs a bit on the large end of the spectrum. It isn't a problem in most chambers, but it can be in some instances. Autoloaders just send out engraved invitations to Murphy, so I'm a bit cautios with them, as a general rule. The S/B dies bring a fired case down closer to those true, virgin, unfired dimensions, and hopefully dodge those potential problems. As I mentioned before, the smaller dimensions also reduce the force required to extract the cases after firing, so it's not just an aid to easier chambering alone.
Your setback of .003" is about right for an auto. I wouldn't want to go any less, but also wouldn't push it too much more than that. Long as the gun's functioning, and your cases are giving reasonable (and this varies with the gun type!) life, you're golden. I'm not a fan of neck sizing in almost any context, and reccomend against it. It does not increase accuracy in the vast majority of guns, and doesn't really do much to extend case life, either. Add to that the fact that it invites all kinds of potential problems (Murphy, again), and it just isn't worth the potential problems. You're obviously measuring your setback already, and here's where you want to keep it close. Don't push the shoulders back more than .001"-.002" when you're loading for a bolt gun, and you've got the best of all worlds when you F/L size; good case life, accuracy, reliable feeding and chambering, the works. You're right on with your notion about the neck diamters, though, and I've done this myself with dies in the pass. Usually F/L dies, but setting the neck I.D. to work the brass as little as possible is a good plan. Most of this has become a moot point since the advent and now ready availablity of good bushing dies like those from Redding, Forster and a few others. Yeah, I like them, and I use them extensively. They'll go a long way towards getting maximum case life and still give good accuracy and correct neck tension, which is all we're after here. Go for it!
If you bump the shoulder .003 for a auto loader. My question is .003 from what standard If the case is from a unknown weapon.
Scot
Scot
I full length size mine and then trim to 2.005, unless it was fired out of my bolt gun. Then I neck size and measure the length, they normally don't require trimming.
This is excellent advise for autoloaders! The only additional step I undertake with my newly acquired LC brass is to anneal first then S/B size and trim to 2.005". I also anneal every four reload and always us the S/B sizer. Incidentally I've never had failure to feed or extract issues with my LR-308 over the 2k rounds I've reloaded for it from machinegun fired LC brass.
0.003" from the length that comes out of your gun.
dude, ksthomas...... you really know your shit... really..... you got some damn good posts and I'm impressed.
all lake city 7.62 is already annealed before it is military fired and if it is true once fired, then you should be on the 2nd firing as the military NEVER reloads.... really, it is not their tax dollars
As for my SEMI auto, I full length size my brass and then trim to 2.005" with a +/- factor of .001" using my WTF (world's finest trimmer) and it is usually spot on..... as for .223 and .308, if you're not rocking a WFT then there is something wrong with you! LOL JK .... it is so stupid fast and easy... just like sharpening a pencil and you can use any regular drill... chuck the WFT in the drill in one hand, and insert the brass with the other hand... and the depth of the cutting bit is adjustable depending on the amount you bump back the brass with your .308 die set...
Before I say anything this is with MY hornady headspace guage and NOT your headspace gauge... All I'm concerned about is with bumping back my fired brass shoulders so DONT use this info for your reloading purposes!! Also, as I see this question coming up in this thread.... as for my LMT brass comes out fired from my chamber about 1.631ish ALL the time... maybe 1.632ish... here and there.... I try to bump back my 1.631 fired brass back to 1.627 with a .001 +/- factor (which is about a .004 to .005max bump)... I have measured boat loads of FACTORY 7.62x51 American eagle ammo designed for the MIA and it is damn near all the time 1.626ish with my hornady headspace guage........ and most factory .308 (not nato mind you) is usually around 1.624 to 1.625ish. I have no patience to anneal and maybe that is my downfall, but I've found with my semi-auto that the brass gets so damn beat up by the 5th fire anyway that I'll just trash it after that... by the time I get on the 5th fire the base, neck, and shoulders are good and beat up so what is the point... and even 5.56 is usually starting to show signs of case head separation by the 5th to 6th fire so why gamble with your health over a .15cent to .25cent pc of brass..... as for me the amount of time, propane, and screwing around annealing I think I would rather just trash the brass on the 5th fire and buy new as I can get 500pcs once fired for about $100 to $110 shipped and NO I will not tell you where I get it.. LOL..... This would be a whole different story if I was rocking a bolt action obviously.
all lake city 7.62 is already annealed before it is military fired and if it is true once fired, then you should be on the 2nd firing as the military NEVER reloads.... really, it is not their tax dollars
As for my SEMI auto, I full length size my brass and then trim to 2.005" with a +/- factor of .001" using my WTF (world's finest trimmer) and it is usually spot on..... as for .223 and .308, if you're not rocking a WFT then there is something wrong with you! LOL JK
.... it is so stupid fast and easy... just like sharpening a pencil and you can use any regular drill... chuck the WFT in the drill in one hand, and insert the brass with the other hand... and the depth of the cutting bit is adjustable depending on the amount you bump back the brass with your .308 die set... Before I say anything this is with MY hornady headspace guage and NOT your headspace gauge... All I'm concerned about is with bumping back my fired brass shoulders so DONT use this info for your reloading purposes!! Also, as I see this question coming up in this thread.... as for my LMT brass comes out fired from my chamber about 1.631ish ALL the time... maybe 1.632ish... here and there.... I try to bump back my 1.631 fired brass back to 1.627 with a .001 +/- factor (which is about a .004 to .005max bump)... I have measured boat loads of FACTORY 7.62x51 American eagle ammo designed for the MIA and it is damn near all the time 1.626ish with my hornady headspace guage........ and most factory .308 (not nato mind you) is usually around 1.624 to 1.625ish. I have no patience to anneal and maybe that is my downfall, but I've found with my semi-auto that the brass gets so damn beat up by the 5th fire anyway that I'll just trash it after that... by the time I get on the 5th fire the base, neck, and shoulders are good and beat up so what is the point... and even 5.56 is usually starting to show signs of case head separation by the 5th to 6th fire so why gamble with your health over a .15cent to .25cent pc of brass..... as for me the amount of time, propane, and screwing around annealing I think I would rather just trash the brass on the 5th fire and buy new as I can get 500pcs once fired for about $100 to $110 shipped and NO I will not tell you where I get it.. LOL..... This would be a whole different story if I was rocking a bolt action obviously.
Last edited:
Quote(0.003" from the length that comes out of your gun)That's what I understood what is the bump to length for unknown (other weapon) brass.Or what are the base line numbers for once fired. While we are at it those specs. for 5.56 would be great as I have 10,000 or those little buggers to work up also from random weapons.
Thanks Scot
Thanks Scot
Get a Hornady headspace gage. Get a piece of brass fired out of the weapon you want to use these reloads in. Deprime the brass (the ridge around the firing pin strike on the primer will screw with the measurement), measure the brass. That's the dimension you want to use as your reference for all brass for that weapon.
Here's my example: This piece of LC brass came out of my .308 MATEN. The gage says the shoulder is at 1.623". When I resize, I'll set the die to bump it back to 1.620".
Now, when I pull out LC brass that was fired in my .308 bolt gun (which I no longer have), I just run it into the same die, and it gets sized to the same dimensions, and it will work in my MATEN.
Here's my example: This piece of LC brass came out of my .308 MATEN. The gage says the shoulder is at 1.623". When I resize, I'll set the die to bump it back to 1.620".
Now, when I pull out LC brass that was fired in my .308 bolt gun (which I no longer have), I just run it into the same die, and it gets sized to the same dimensions, and it will work in my MATEN.
Got it. I don't know why I could not wrap my mind around it before.
Scot
Scot
Get a Hornady headspace gage. Get a piece of brass fired out of the weapon you want to use these reloads in. Deprime the brass (the ridge around the firing pin strike on the primer will screw with the measurement), measure the brass. That's the dimension you want to use as your reference for all brass for that weapon.
Here's my example: This piece of LC brass came out of my .308 MATEN. The gage says the shoulder is at 1.623". When I resize, I'll set the die to bump it back to 1.620".
Now, when I pull out LC brass that was fired in my .308 bolt gun (which I no longer have), I just run it into the same die, and it gets sized to the same dimensions, and it will work in my MATEN.
Thanks for that post. I finally understood how that Hornady gauge is used. Up till now I have used this method:
The best thing to do is screw the die up off of the shell holder .010 or 2 sheets of paper away from the shell holder. Take a fired case and size it. Try it in your chamber, more than likely it will stick and you will have to pry the carrier back to get it out of the chamber. Every full turn of the die lowers the die .0625 so every 1/4 turn is apx .015, every 1/8 turn .0075, every 1/16th turn .0037. On second try turn the die about 1/16th turn and size the case again. Repeat until the case chambers in the rifle and you are able to extract it easily. Now size 4-5 more fired cases to make sure it works. Mark the die on the front with a sharpie all the way down onto the press so you can align it to the same spot. Don’t rely on the lock ring it won’t get it close enough. Completely load a few cases to make sure that is the correct size before loading 100 rounds
With thanks to the Constructor at AR Precision who shared that method with me.
Life is much easier with the Hornady Lock-n-Load bushings. I put my die in the bushing, put the bushing in the press, adjust till my cases are coming out the right length, then I tighten down the screw on the lock ring, and my dies go right back to the same spot when I put them in again.
It's very convenient, since I reload 3 calibers (5.56, .308, .40 S&W) and will be loading 6.5 Creedmoor soon, I'm swapping dies all the time.
It's very convenient, since I reload 3 calibers (5.56, .308, .40 S&W) and will be loading 6.5 Creedmoor soon, I'm swapping dies all the time.
Similar threads
Reloading Equipment WTS: Processed 9mm Brass
