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New Rifle - Won't Group: Suggestions?

Good luck with the rifle, hopefully Remington fixes it. I'm very inexperienced with bolt actions, having only two to my name, but that brass doesn't look good to me. My brass comes out nice and unscathed in both my 6.5 CM and 303 british WWII rifle. I would expect thats a possible reason why you're having extraction problems--the brass is being scraped by the chamber on its way out. Kind of looks like the marring I encountered recently when reloading some .38s using hornady lube and non-carbide tungsten dies--the lube wasn't sufficient for 40 year old dies and they scarred the brass as a result.

Did you peek in the chamber with a flash light to see if the chamber walls are marred from machining?
 
Yep, that brass is nasty looking.

Get a small piece of wire, put a small 90 degree bend on the tip and stick it down the inside of the fired case. Run it up and down the case, in front of the belt and tell us if it feels smooth or if the wire catches on a small dip.
 
I'm as baffled as you.

I would also check the crown under magnification. It doesn't take much distortion in the crown face/rifling interface to increase dispersion significantly. Wouldn't be the first Rem700 I've heard of with a bad factory crown.

As a test of the base/screws. I would use three of the shorter screws (don't overtighten/strip any) in the holes that do not intersect the bolt locking recess, shoot a few, and see if anything changes.

Don't subject it to a lot of pounding, and don't leave it this way even if it works. It's a test, not a solution; if it does work, redo things with three long bolts, and a shorter one in the locking lug hole.

Greg
 
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if you have taken it apart, check the stock for cracks and stuffs. check the bedding to see if there is any damage. just one more thing that could be wrong and cracked stock can cause lots of problems.
 
Are you sure thats a sendero looks like a tactical 5r creakote to me. Even the old senderos have a sporter style stock not this style. Im pretty sure thats a b&c stock not hs. If sso this model is made by remington for a company called sports south its a limited production model like the 5r made for acu sports. Either way good look hope remmy helps you out.
 
My guess is it needs bedding. My b&c I put on the sps 308 caused a similar dispersion. The chamber issue could just be a hotter hornady load, it happens more now with factory ammo than I can ever remember.
 
I dont believe in that "It needs bedding" thing, my SPSS shoots pretty good with the OEM Tupperware stock. Id like see a pic of the barreled action up close and personal, could we see some pics of that?
 
I am new to this site, joined recently after picking-up a 700 XCR Tactical Long Range in .300 win mag. I've shot a lot over the years, not as much as the least on this site, mostly 7mm, .30-06, .243, .222, .223, etc., all lightweights compared to the .300. I bought the .300 to have something challenging to grow into. My three hole groups at 100 and 200 are better than yours, many below .5" with some single holes, but my 4th and 5th shots go wild as much as 2". I've had a few sub moa groups at 100 with 5 rounds but face it, the gun kicks like a mule and until I get more used to it, and I bet you too, you will have flyers. The biggest improvement in my groups came from concentration. Also I practice trigger pull a number of times between each shot, then load and shoot. The barrel really gets hot as well. Mine has the 40x trigger which is externally adjustable to right around 3.5lbs but came from the factory set to about 5.

I would try a lead sled or a bunch of sand bags before sending it away. I really had to separate the recoil from the shot in my mind before my groups started getting better. If I relax and the gun moves off target I don't fire. I like to have the gun set almost perfectly in balance on the target so I am not holding up the back or leaning into it which in my case caused the shots to go slight left.

Lastly, that bolt face looks really fouled. My doesn't look like that after two boxes. Someone should be able to look at that and tell if it is normal.
 
Bangin_steel said:
Are you sure thats a sendero looks like a tactical 5r creakote to me. Even the old senderos have a sporter style stock not this style. Im pretty sure thats a b&c stock not hs. If sso this model is made by remington for a company called sports south its a limited production model like the 5r made for acu sports. Either way good look hope remmy helps you out.
Click to expand...

Now I'm not so sure. For some reason I thought it was a sendero, but after looking around online it seems to look more like the tactical 5R. :confused: ....definitely has "5R Tactical Rifling 1 in 10"" scroll marked on the side of the barrel.
 
Yea thats the 5r cerakote model. No sendero has 5r rifling with out a custom barrel but then its not a sendero at that point. Still a very nice rifle, i was stuck between the normal 5r and your model but went with 5r for the threaded barrel for muzzle brake. The recoil could also be the culprit for strays a good muzzle brake will tame it down alot to were its more fun to shoot all day. I would def take the barrel and action out of the stock to see if there is any imperfections in the stock causing issues.
 
Before firing any factory rifle, it should be bedded and diamond lapped. This rifle has a blued barrel, and the odds are that some bluing is in the muzzle, which needs to be removed (by lapping). The stock bedder will be able to check for proper action screw length, and will grind those if they are too long. A barrel this heavy needs a "saddle" of bedding material under the first few inches of barrel forward of the recoil lug. Go to Georgia Precision website for proper cleaning technique. However, if you shoot moly-coated bullets, the cleaning process is easier. The barrel needs lapping every 300-500 rounds, and you could use Tubb Fire-lapping bullets for that purpose. This applies even after the rifle is sent to the factory for evaluation. I recommend getting in touch with Garland Gilbreath, who does bedding. If you want lapping done, check with your local high-power rifle shooters, and find one who does diamond lapping. Edited for new information: I am not familiar with Cerakote, but you need to look in the muzzle and shine a light onto a sliver of paper in the muzzle. If you do not see a proper mirror finish, you most likely need lapping. The grooves may look dark and streaky, which is either from the coating, or due to improper cleaning. You may also see copper-colored fouling on the lands. The copper color would indicate fouling; and with proper lapping, the fouling should not occur until after quite a few rounds, and should clean up fairly quickly. 5R rifling is supposed to help fouling.
Edited for further new information: I also recommend checking a fired case to see if a bullet will drop through it. If not, it means you might have a custom chamber, which could be in keeping with the info from the previous poster about the semi-custom nature of this model. If a bullet does not drop through the fired case, do not shoot the rifle until a standard finish reamer has been run through it, including the neck. Diamond lapping obviates the need for any barrel break-in. Many of the custom barrel makers diamond lap their barrels, but a Remington barrel that is lapped can shoot about 0.5 MOA for 5 shots most of the time. It takes me about 1 hour to diamond lap a barrel, and the usual break-in (which is not as good anyway) takes several hours. I may have to edit again after further posts are made in response to your issue. There has already been a lot of good information, but you need something definitive upon which to take your next action. The last time one of my buddies shot groups like yours, he had too tight a chamber neck, which is a dangerous situation. I am passing on to you what he told me.
 
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^^^^^^^ you are joking that is ridiculous that rifle is 1moa rifle out the box something is wrong with it but its not the barrel its the chamber (diamond lapped befor its shot what a joke)
 
" The barrel needs lapping every 300-500 rounds"

And the barrel will last about 1500 rounds...
If the brand new barrel "needs lapping", I'd send it back to Remington and ask for one that doesn't need a manufacturing process applied to their product by the end user in order to function.

I would definitely check the bedding... at least pull it out of the stock, give it a good eyeball, and replace it.. insuring proper torque on the action screws.
Can't improve on the advice of others (except that lapping bit...). Check the crown, check the chamber/throat if you have a bore-scope or know someone with one, definitely figure out why the brass is getting scarred up.
Re-mount the scope base, and the scope.

I'm curious to know how this comes out!
 
Not only does it NOT need lapping, but Remington will tell you it dont need to be broken in as well, just shoot it they say, sounds good to me.
 
jim_k said:
Before firing any factory rifle, it should be bedded and diamond lapped. This rifle has a blued barrel, and the odds are that some bluing is in the muzzle, which needs to be removed (by lapping). The stock bedder will be able to check for proper action screw length, and will grind those if they are too long. A barrel this heavy needs a "saddle" of bedding material under the first few inches of barrel forward of the recoil lug. Go to Georgia Precision website for proper cleaning technique. However, if you shoot moly-coated bullets, the cleaning process is easier. The barrel needs lapping every 300-500 rounds, and you could use Tubb Fire-lapping bullets for that purpose. This applies even after the rifle is sent to the factory for evaluation. I recommend getting in touch with Garland Gilbreath, who does bedding. If you want lapping done, check with your local high-power rifle shooters, and find one who does diamond lapping. Edited for new information: I am not familiar with Cerakote, but you need to look in the muzzle and shine a light onto a sliver of paper in the muzzle. If you do not see a proper mirror finish, you most likely need lapping. The grooves may look dark and streaky, which is either from the coating, or due to improper cleaning. You may also see copper-colored fouling on the lands. The copper color would indicate fouling; and with proper lapping, the fouling should not occur until after quite a few rounds, and should clean up fairly quickly. 5R rifling is supposed to help fouling.
Edited for further new information: I also recommend checking a fired case to see if a bullet will drop through it. If not, it means you might have a custom chamber, which could be in keeping with the info from the previous poster about the semi-custom nature of this model. If a bullet does not drop through the fired case, do not shoot the rifle until a standard finish reamer has been run through it, including the neck. Diamond lapping obviates the need for any barrel break-in. Many of the custom barrel makers diamond lap their barrels, but a Remington barrel that is lapped can shoot about 0.5 MOA for 5 shots most of the time. It takes me about 1 hour to diamond lap a barrel, and the usual break-in (which is not as good anyway) takes several hours. I may have to edit again after further posts are made in response to your issue. There has already been a lot of good information, but you need something definitive upon which to take your next action. The last time one of my buddies shot groups like yours, he had too tight a chamber neck, which is a dangerous situation. I am passing on to you what he told me.
Click to expand...

Kick your friend in the balls! That is some funny stuff right there! :D
 
I know there are a number of folks on here who have had good results from factory Remingtons. I am not one of them. You may not be either. I have a 700 AAC-SD that got about 3MOA out of the box. I sent it to a great smith who bedded it, put it in a Manners stock, Timney, and mounted a NF. That got it down to about 2MOA, and that's with 200 of the finest factory (Lapua, Fed GMM, Copper Creek, Southwest Ammo) and hand spun loads around. Turns out the bore was well off of center line, the chamber was out of spec, and a host of other issues. There was no re-chambering the rifle and cutting/setting the barrel back as the reamer would follow the original channel and also be off center. So a full action job and Bartlein was the final answer. Should have started with a custom to begin with. That was my 2nd bad Remmy in 12 months (2012-2013). I have an unmodified 700 Mountain Rifle that I have hunted with for 25 years and it shoots wonderfully. Have a reputable smith check your rifle out. Short Action Customs and Accurate Ordnance are my 2 favorites, but there are lots of others and probably one close to you. As you're in south LA (where I happen to be from) you might visit Ed Delorge in Houma. He has done a number of projects for me. Good luck.
 
jim_k said:
Before firing any factory rifle, it should be bedded and diamond lapped. This rifle has a blued barrel, and the odds are that some bluing is in the muzzle, which needs to be removed (by lapping). The stock bedder will be able to check for proper action screw length, and will grind those if they are too long. A barrel this heavy needs a "saddle" of bedding material under the first few inches of barrel forward of the recoil lug. Go to Georgia Precision website for proper cleaning technique. However, if you shoot moly-coated bullets, the cleaning process is easier. The barrel needs lapping every 300-500 rounds, and you could use Tubb Fire-lapping bullets for that purpose. This applies even after the rifle is sent to the factory for evaluation. I recommend getting in touch with Garland Gilbreath, who does bedding. If you want lapping done, check with your local high-power rifle shooters, and find one who does diamond lapping. Edited for new information: I am not familiar with Cerakote, but you need to look in the muzzle and shine a light onto a sliver of paper in the muzzle. If you do not see a proper mirror finish, you most likely need lapping. The grooves may look dark and streaky, which is either from the coating, or due to improper cleaning. You may also see copper-colored fouling on the lands. The copper color would indicate fouling; and with proper lapping, the fouling should not occur until after quite a few rounds, and should clean up fairly quickly. 5R rifling is supposed to help fouling.
Edited for further new information: I also recommend checking a fired case to see if a bullet will drop through it. If not, it means you might have a custom chamber, which could be in keeping with the info from the previous poster about the semi-custom nature of this model. If a bullet does not drop through the fired case, do not shoot the rifle until a standard finish reamer has been run through it, including the neck. Diamond lapping obviates the need for any barrel break-in. Many of the custom barrel makers diamond lap their barrels, but a Remington barrel that is lapped can shoot about 0.5 MOA for 5 shots most of the time. It takes me about 1 hour to diamond lap a barrel, and the usual break-in (which is not as good anyway) takes several hours. I may have to edit again after further posts are made in response to your issue. There has already been a lot of good information, but you need something definitive upon which to take your next action. The last time one of my buddies shot groups like yours, he had too tight a chamber neck, which is a dangerous situation. I am passing on to you what he told me.
Click to expand...
That's an epic first post.

Maybe don't believe everything that someone tells you; and if you do believe it, consider not repeating it as truth for your introduction to people who know better.

Or maybe post that information on Barf.com. Because knowing your audience is important, even on the Internet.
 
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jim_k said:
Before firing any factory rifle, it should be bedded and diamond lapped. This rifle has a blued barrel, and the odds are that some bluing is in the muzzle, which needs to be removed (by lapping). The stock bedder will be able to check for proper action screw length, and will grind those if they are too long. A barrel this heavy needs a "saddle" of bedding material under the first few inches of barrel forward of the recoil lug. Go to Georgia Precision website for proper cleaning technique. However, if you shoot moly-coated bullets, the cleaning process is easier. The barrel needs lapping every 300-500 rounds, and you could use Tubb Fire-lapping bullets for that purpose. This applies even after the rifle is sent to the factory for evaluation. I recommend getting in touch with Garland Gilbreath, who does bedding. If you want lapping done, check with your local high-power rifle shooters, and find one who does diamond lapping. Edited for new information: I am not familiar with Cerakote, but you need to look in the muzzle and shine a light onto a sliver of paper in the muzzle. If you do not see a proper mirror finish, you most likely need lapping. The grooves may look dark and streaky, which is either from the coating, or due to improper cleaning. You may also see copper-colored fouling on the lands. The copper color would indicate fouling; and with proper lapping, the fouling should not occur until after quite a few rounds, and should clean up fairly quickly. 5R rifling is supposed to help fouling.
Edited for further new information: I also recommend checking a fired case to see if a bullet will drop through it. If not, it means you might have a custom chamber, which could be in keeping with the info from the previous poster about the semi-custom nature of this model. If a bullet does not drop through the fired case, do not shoot the rifle until a standard finish reamer has been run through it, including the neck. Diamond lapping obviates the need for any barrel break-in. Many of the custom barrel makers diamond lap their barrels, but a Remington barrel that is lapped can shoot about 0.5 MOA for 5 shots most of the time. It takes me about 1 hour to diamond lap a barrel, and the usual break-in (which is not as good anyway) takes several hours. I may have to edit again after further posts are made in response to your issue. There has already been a lot of good information, but you need something definitive upon which to take your next action. The last time one of my buddies shot groups like yours, he had too tight a chamber neck, which is a dangerous situation. I am passing on to you what he told me.
Click to expand...

Wow. Now that is a magnum opus of anal leakage. You forgot to mention that any rifle purchased north of Equatorial Guinea should not have bullets thrust down the bore by any traditional means (gun powder and primers being for the unwashed), but rather by force of the flux capacitor. Personally, I like to charge my 300WM with 1.21 gigawatts of voltaic super juice. I think Brownells had some in stock the same day a Big 10 football team beat out an SEC foe in some bowl game. Now as for the lands and grooves and what-not, the sort of technique that will really polish those suckers up is by drawing (NOT pushing) a really old scotch from breech to muzzle (directionally speaking) while ensuring the barrel threads are parallel to the surface of the planet (whichever one you happen to be on - I'm sure we don't share the same terra firma). Now, by "drawing" I mean to say having some burly Fraulein seal off the end of the barrel with a lamb skin condom and insert a straw through said membrane, then sucking like her life depended upon it. The efforts of such FrauMadchen are the reason Walther turns out such nice tubes. Please pass this on to your friend.
 
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jim_k said:
Before firing any factory rifle, it should be bedded and diamond lapped. This rifle has a blued barrel, and the odds are that some bluing is in the muzzle, which needs to be removed (by lapping). The stock bedder will be able to check for proper action screw length, and will grind those if they are too long. A barrel this heavy needs a "saddle" of bedding material under the first few inches of barrel forward of the recoil lug. Go to Georgia Precision website for proper cleaning technique. However, if you shoot moly-coated bullets, the cleaning process is easier. The barrel needs lapping every 300-500 rounds, and you could use Tubb Fire-lapping bullets for that purpose. This applies even after the rifle is sent to the factory for evaluation. I recommend getting in touch with Garland Gilbreath, who does bedding. If you want lapping done, check with your local high-power rifle shooters, and find one who does diamond lapping. Edited for new information: I am not familiar with Cerakote, but you need to look in the muzzle and shine a light onto a sliver of paper in the muzzle. If you do not see a proper mirror finish, you most likely need lapping. The grooves may look dark and streaky, which is either from the coating, or due to improper cleaning. You may also see copper-colored fouling on the lands. The copper color would indicate fouling; and with proper lapping, the fouling should not occur until after quite a few rounds, and should clean up fairly quickly. 5R rifling is supposed to help fouling.
Edited for further new information: I also recommend checking a fired case to see if a bullet will drop through it. If not, it means you might have a custom chamber, which could be in keeping with the info from the previous poster about the semi-custom nature of this model. If a bullet does not drop through the fired case, do not shoot the rifle until a standard finish reamer has been run through it, including the neck. Diamond lapping obviates the need for any barrel break-in. Many of the custom barrel makers diamond lap their barrels, but a Remington barrel that is lapped can shoot about 0.5 MOA for 5 shots most of the time. It takes me about 1 hour to diamond lap a barrel, and the usual break-in (which is not as good anyway) takes several hours. I may have to edit again after further posts are made in response to your issue. There has already been a lot of good information, but you need something definitive upon which to take your next action. The last time one of my buddies shot groups like yours, he had too tight a chamber neck, which is a dangerous situation. I am passing on to you what he told me.
Click to expand...

aw_jeez_not_this_shit_again.jpg
 
jim_k said:
Before firing any factory rifle, it should be bedded and diamond lapped. This rifle has a blued barrel, and the odds are that some bluing is in the muzzle, which needs to be removed (by lapping). The stock bedder will be able to check for proper action screw length, and will grind those if they are too long. A barrel this heavy needs a "saddle" of bedding material under the first few inches of barrel forward of the recoil lug. Go to Georgia Precision website for proper cleaning technique. However, if you shoot moly-coated bullets, the cleaning process is easier. The barrel needs lapping every 300-500 rounds, and you could use Tubb Fire-lapping bullets for that purpose. This applies even after the rifle is sent to the factory for evaluation. I recommend getting in touch with Garland Gilbreath, who does bedding. If you want lapping done, check with your local high-power rifle shooters, and find one who does diamond lapping. Edited for new information: I am not familiar with Cerakote, but you need to look in the muzzle and shine a light onto a sliver of paper in the muzzle. If you do not see a proper mirror finish, you most likely need lapping. The grooves may look dark and streaky, which is either from the coating, or due to improper cleaning. You may also see copper-colored fouling on the lands. The copper color would indicate fouling; and with proper lapping, the fouling should not occur until after quite a few rounds, and should clean up fairly quickly. 5R rifling is supposed to help fouling.
Edited for further new information: I also recommend checking a fired case to see if a bullet will drop through it. If not, it means you might have a custom chamber, which could be in keeping with the info from the previous poster about the semi-custom nature of this model. If a bullet does not drop through the fired case, do not shoot the rifle until a standard finish reamer has been run through it, including the neck. Diamond lapping obviates the need for any barrel break-in. Many of the custom barrel makers diamond lap their barrels, but a Remington barrel that is lapped can shoot about 0.5 MOA for 5 shots most of the time. It takes me about 1 hour to diamond lap a barrel, and the usual break-in (which is not as good anyway) takes several hours. I may have to edit again after further posts are made in response to your issue. There has already been a lot of good information, but you need something definitive upon which to take your next action. The last time one of my buddies shot groups like yours, he had too tight a chamber neck, which is a dangerous situation. I am passing on to you what he told me.
Click to expand...

There's no way you're serious.
 
Guys thanks for the assistance, the rifle is packed up and going back to Remington some time this week. I will make a new tthread as an update when I get the rifle back and shoot it again . If remmy can't fix it, then i'm going to sell it and buy a Sako TRG 42
 
CDSaints said:
Guys thanks for the assistance, the rifle is packed up and going back to Remington some time this week. I will make a new tthread as an update when I get the rifle back and shoot it again . If remmy can't fix it, then i'm going to sell it and buy a Sako TRG 42
Click to expand...

You did call them first, right? RA slip and all that?
 
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