oops, I added it to the post - it is the 142 SMK
- Thread starter Sportin Wood
- Start date
That's nuts. That is exactly the charge weight I'm running. Getting about 2825 ish but the accuracy is sick. I'll tell you this though. It was 97 degrees here yesterday. I left all my ammo in my truck out of the sun. In my feeble attempt to shoot I started at 420 yards. My bullets impacted 4" high. 6 moa exactly from a 100 yard zero. I got the first ejector swipes on brass since I first bought the GAP. Long story short... According to my ballistic calculator they were running around 2940!!! Extreme powder my ass!
I have only seen a couple of loads for the 123's. I have about 600 of the 123 Amax, and am picking up my Beanland this week. Anyone care to share loads for the little pills??? Thx.
Do we think the 123 AMAX will load up much differently than the 120Amax? I'm having great luck with Varget 38.6 to 39 gr at an OAL of 2.810. It's shooting sub 1/2" moa out of a stock savage LRP. Maybe get started with some Varget around 37gr and work it up?
Hey Demo, thx. What speed are you getting with that recipe?
I have the dope to 600 written down. When I get to it ill let you know what the load is doing. I've been shooting 140 Bergers so long now I don't remember what that 120amax was doing.
What is your Barrel length?
The Bartlein barrel is 22"
I have a JP LRP-07 in 6.5 Creed (22" barrel) and have been running the 140 Amaxes in front of 41.5 gr of H4350.
I confirmed velocity at 2750 out to 1000 (9.3 mils) last Saturday.
I am contemplating trying some 139 Scenars with RL17 seeing as I might eek out a little more speed with no additional pressure.
Just wondering if anyone else is reloading this caliber for a gas gun.
I confirmed velocity at 2750 out to 1000 (9.3 mils) last Saturday.
I am contemplating trying some 139 Scenars with RL17 seeing as I might eek out a little more speed with no additional pressure.
Just wondering if anyone else is reloading this caliber for a gas gun.
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Here is my load for my Savage LRP. Stock action/barrel bed in a Manners T2A by Jon Addis @ area419firearms.com
140 amax
43.5 h4350
CCI BR2
Factory OAL 2.810
Dope has it running 2900 fps. No pressure signs on twice fired brass, had slight sign on once fired from different rifle.
5 shot @ 100 yards
140 amax
43.5 h4350
CCI BR2
Factory OAL 2.810
Dope has it running 2900 fps. No pressure signs on twice fired brass, had slight sign on once fired from different rifle.
5 shot @ 100 yards
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Tag for good info. Just picked up a box of 130 gr vlds for the hell of it at cabelas. Current load is 140 amax 42.3 h4350 around 2.804 with the shark suppressor. Shoots lights out. Wondering if I can get the bergers to beat em.
My lord have I found a good one. 42.7 r17, 140 amax at 2.800. Fgm210m. Was shooting at 103 yards and couldn't figure out where the hell they were going. Same hole. I then doped it to what quickload said at 920 yards. It was rolling 2915 to 2920 and 5 shots at 920 gave me a 3" group at the most!! Only thing I'm hesitant about is burning out my barrel shooting them that fast. I'm building a .308 with a Stiller Tac 30 action, bartlein #9, AI chassis , for F/TR so I kind of wanna focus on that and save my 6.5. There is no doubt in my mind that if that Creedmor shot the 140 amax as accurately and consistently as it did today,in a 600 yard f open match, it would be hard to beat. Some #'s.
I went from 24.25 moa with a 140 hybrid to 22.79 with the 140 amax. Was very very impressed.
I went from 24.25 moa with a 140 hybrid to 22.79 with the 140 amax. Was very very impressed.
Yeah, but where do ya find R17?
I have 4#s of H4350, then about 10# of IMR 4350, 5# of N160. Has anyone played with IMR 4350 or N160?
I have 4#s of H4350, then about 10# of IMR 4350, 5# of N160. Has anyone played with IMR 4350 or N160?
I owe you one man!!!! I just got 7#'s. but you better hurry for all those needing it. It says "low stock" where it should say in stock
Anyone notice your brass growing .008 to .012 in length between firings?
Just my necks. About 6/1000's. shoulder only grows to 1.532 from 1.530. One thing I've noticed that I haven't said anything about is neck tension. My necks are .291.5" loaded. I have to use a .286 bushing in order to get proper neck tension when resizing. I thought I was crazy and kind of embarrassed to say anything. But then I read a redding article where they stated calibers with really thin necks can sometimes require as much as 10/1000's to acquire proper tension. But Ski, reason the brass is growing so much , IMO , is because its really thin and everytime you resize it its stretching the hell out of the necks. Same probably when you shoot it too...
You guys notice with Hornady brass, after about 5 reloads, the neck tension seems to get extremely light. Accuracy seems to stay really really nice, but the neck tension just seems to disappear after 4 or 5 firings. At least with my Redding non bushed dies. I havne't annealed anything. Have you guys started annealing your Hornady 6.5 creed brass to get the neck tension "back"?
I anneal every 3rd or 4th firing. Still, when I trim the brass there are hard spots in the necks. I use the bushing dies and I'm using a 288 bushing. I have not seen the neck tension fall off dramatically yet.
From what I am seeing, I'll probably lose the primer pockets first before the necks get too thin. 8-10 firings is about all I expect out of this brass.
From what I am seeing, I'll probably lose the primer pockets first before the necks get too thin. 8-10 firings is about all I expect out of this brass.
skigolf - have you tried any of the Sinclair chamber length gauges to see what the trim-to length should be for your GAP? Sinclair Chamber Length Gage | Sinclair Intl
Thought you might like this as well....Skigolfmike doing some 6.5 Crusading:
Thought you might like this as well....Skigolfmike doing some 6.5 Crusading:
Are you annealing then resizing or vice versa. For example I've found my .300 win mag shoots better after being annealed last. I know they say to anneal and then fl resize but it's not what I do for that particular rig
skigolf - have you tried any of the Sinclair chamber length gauges to see what the trim-to length should be for your GAP? Sinclair Chamber Length Gage | Sinclair Intl
Thought you might like this as well....Skigolfmike doing some 6.5 Crusading:
Man that looks familiar.....
I have not looked at a chamber length gauge. I just trim at 1.920
Depending on the length of your chamber you may be cutting your brass too short...which would be why you are seeing .008" - .012" of growth.
I have the gauges, but haven't got around to checking them. It's likely that the GAPs are all in the same ballpark.
That's certainly possible.
I couldn't find any H4350 during my load development so I just used IMR4350 and am now running 41gr of IMR4350, 140gr amax , 2.805 OAL, hornady brass, CCI 200 primers and I haven't checked the velocity yet but it is shooting .2-.4 MOA.
The velocity seems to be off about 50 fps based on the dope I am seeing on the rifle the last couple times I've shot it. Balistic app predicted 7.7 mil to 1K and it was more like 8.0. I adjusted my balistic app and shot OK for the day.
Maybe it's time to give the rifle a good cleaning and check the throat with the OAL guage again to see if it's moving.
Maybe it's time to give the rifle a good cleaning and check the throat with the OAL guage again to see if it's moving.
I ran out of H4350 and had plenty of H414 laying about so I tried it with some 140gr Nosler CCs! this is the 2nd outing and some good results. it's only at 100yds but I will get it out further next time.
Just finished checking the throat on the 6.5 CM Measures 2.238" now with 140 Hybrids. It was 2.222" brand new, so .016" of throat erosion after ~1000 rounds.
Thanks for posting this. Wish I'd seen it a bit earlier today as I was at the Cabela's in Wheeling, WV and they had no H4350, but plenty of H414. I'll keep this in mind if I still can't find the Varget/H4350 and the 414 is available. Keep us posted as to its longer range capabilities if you can.
that's one powder I can find at my lgs that I can use. he doesn't have much of a selection right now but does have plenty of H414. I guess most people don't think about it for one reason or another. it works for me!
h414 is Win760 right? I just got into loading for a .308 and i keep hearing that these powders are actually the exact same.
Not sure about H414. I have quite a bit of IMR4350 and also some N160 that I can switch to. I have a bunch of Superformance too, but I think I'll use that as a backup to CFE223 for my AR.
FWIW, One of the gunshops I frequent back in Ohio had Varget, H4831 & H4831SC, IMR4350 and some other powders on the shelf last weekend. Maybe stuff is coming back.
FWIW, One of the gunshops I frequent back in Ohio had Varget, H4831 & H4831SC, IMR4350 and some other powders on the shelf last weekend. Maybe stuff is coming back.
I have a BlackOps Precision Recon 6.5 Creedmoor as well, but with a 23" barrel.
I'm curious about more details about your accuracy testing like what was your powder charge range tested for RL-17 and details on your ladder testing (distance, shots fired, etc.).
Did you try varying seating length and at what intervals relative to lands?
How much are you jumping your bullets relative to the lands?
Thanks.
let's see...the powder charges were from 41 - 42.9 at .3 increments. Never had a sticky bolt and could have gone higher but it was at an accuracy node I was happy with and fps was as good as I needed so I found it was good for me. I tested the 142's to the lands and it came to 2.850" so jumping is short. I have not varied the lengths since accuracy was good. I have shot it out to 900 yards with 23.75 MOA from a 100 yard zero. I have shot 140 AMAX and 120 AMAX from Hornady commercial loads and I haven't found anything it won't shoot.
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I'm tempted to just try what you did with around 42.3gr but I'm using CCI primers so I'll go through the accuracy testing. Thanks for the information.
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Has anybody shot the 136 "L" Scenars that recently came out yet?? Got a few hundred on the way and I noticed they're a bit longer than the 139's. Also any ideas on BC?? I've heard .600 or so but no one seems to know for sure. I think I'm gonna go with 42-43 grains of r17. Should have em running 2930 ish. Will post results if I don't get a response...
Your probably right.... I probably got them mixed up.
Seeing how my rifle is happy with the 140 Hybrids and the 140 VLDs, I'm not sure I'd wanna even try the 136L Scenars.
I started at .060", but now, after 1000 rounds, they are .076". OAL is 2.840" and mag length is 2.860" so I probably won't change anything as it's still shooting really consistant.
Ski and I have the same rig, I'm shooting the hybrids at 2.800". Main load is 42.6 h4350 but ive been getting some DAMN good results with 42.5 r17. Picked up 90 fps or so also. For some reason my rifle shoots every bullet better jumping them. Ski, your probably right about the hybrids( accuracy is sickening) but I just wanted to try some of the new scenars.
Aim,
I loaded up a test group of the 139's with RL-17 yesterday. Its going to be good and hot here this week, so I'm going to try and get out Wednesday and shoot them. I saw earlier in this thread that you shot them with good results so I picked up some to try myself. My rifle isn't a GAP, but it was built by Robert Gradous. However, like yours and SkiGolf's, it has shot everything that I've tried in it thus far.
Kevin
If it was built by Gradous it's a SHOOTER. When you shoot, post if you can tell a significant reduction in recoil compared to the 140 bergers or h4350. I started shooting and it was like shooting a heavy .223 Hardly any movement at all. Good luck and post how you shoot!! AS
It's a hammer for sure. So far I've had excellent results with the SMK 142's, and the Berger 130 VLD's. I'll definitely post my results from the 139's though.
Kevin
Kevin
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OCW test with Lapua 139 Scenars and RL-17
I was able to get out earlier today and run this test. I've had good success with the OCW method so far, so i used it again. I strayed from the original procedure and i seated all rounds to the lands. For my rifle, this is 2.269" measured from the bullet ogive.
The gun:
Gradous built 6.5 Creedmor
24" Krieger 1-8.5" twist
Surgeon action
Mcmillan A5 stock
It was 92 degrees today, and right off the rip i had ejector swipe marks plus hard bolt lift on the 38.1g and 38.9g sighter loads. The freaking sighter loads! This was no good. I got pissed and ran back home (thankfully i live near my range) and decided to just "jump" the rest of my loads .030 thousandths due to the overpressure. I got back out and set up again with the same conditions. This time, i was able to shoot all powder charges round robin with a one minute cool down in between with no overpressure signs.
I learned a couple of things......One, my gun seems to prefer jumped rounds vs. loaded to the lands or jammed. I have three different loads with three different bullets now that have all preferred a .030 to .040 thousandths jump. Two, RL-17 isn't as temp sensitive as i thought because i ran this same load with the same components with almost the same results back in the spring.
I've attached a pic so let me know what you all think.
Kevin
I was able to get out earlier today and run this test. I've had good success with the OCW method so far, so i used it again. I strayed from the original procedure and i seated all rounds to the lands. For my rifle, this is 2.269" measured from the bullet ogive.
The gun:
Gradous built 6.5 Creedmor
24" Krieger 1-8.5" twist
Surgeon action
Mcmillan A5 stock
It was 92 degrees today, and right off the rip i had ejector swipe marks plus hard bolt lift on the 38.1g and 38.9g sighter loads. The freaking sighter loads! This was no good. I got pissed and ran back home (thankfully i live near my range) and decided to just "jump" the rest of my loads .030 thousandths due to the overpressure. I got back out and set up again with the same conditions. This time, i was able to shoot all powder charges round robin with a one minute cool down in between with no overpressure signs.
I learned a couple of things......One, my gun seems to prefer jumped rounds vs. loaded to the lands or jammed. I have three different loads with three different bullets now that have all preferred a .030 to .040 thousandths jump. Two, RL-17 isn't as temp sensitive as i thought because i ran this same load with the same components with almost the same results back in the spring.
I've attached a pic so let me know what you all think.
Kevin
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I too shot today with 42.7 r17 with 140 hybrids and had 93 degree temp. 22 moa at 925 yards with 4 to 5" groups. That means they were running about 2925fps! No op at all!! It was so interesting to hear the Bergers pop the plate compared to the 140 amaxs. Bergers were knocking the hell out of. I then let the gun rest and shot some manufactured 140 amaxs.two 2 1/2 to 3" inch 5 shot groups. Sometimes I wonder if I would have bought just the 140 amax manufactured stuff.. How much money would I have saved. On a side note (a little bragging) ... First shot ..... Killed an Empty spray paint can at 920 yards. It was a hell of a way to start the day!!!!
