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6.5 Creedmoor

KevinSC said:
I was able to get out earlier today and run this test. I've had good success with the OCW method so far, so i used it again. I strayed from the original procedure and i seated all rounds to the lands. For my rifle, this is 2.269" measured from the bullet ogive.

The gun:
Gradous built 6.5 Creedmor
24" Krieger 1-8.5" twist
Surgeon action
Mcmillan A5 stock

It was 92 degrees today, and right off the rip i had ejector swipe marks plus hard bolt lift on the 38.1g and 38.9g sighter loads. The freaking sighter loads! This was no good. I got pissed and ran back home (thankfully i live near my range) and decided to just "jump" the rest of my loads .030 thousandths due to the overpressure. I got back out and set up again with the same conditions. This time, i was able to shoot all powder charges round robin with a one minute cool down in between with no overpressure signs.

I learned a couple of things......One, my gun seems to prefer jumped rounds vs. loaded to the lands or jammed. I have three different loads with three different bullets now that have all preferred a .030 to .040 thousandths jump. Two, RL-17 isn't as temp sensitive as i thought because i ran this same load with the same components with almost the same results back in the spring.

I've attached a pic so let me know what you all think.

Kevin
Click to expand...

How many yards is this target?
 
Well I just cleaned my rifle. It took FOREVER!!! I had no idea reloader 17 was that dirty. It took 20 to 25 patches and brushing it at least 3 times. With h4350 4 or 5 patches and that's it. H4350 is looking more and more alluring the more I think about it. Better barrel life, temp stable, and doesn't FOUL up your barrel!! Not to mention drives tacks!!
 
Wish I could find the H4350. Just ordered some V100 from Widener's, as they had 8lb containers in stock. Had all the 140 gr. bullets too (VLD, A-Max, and SST). Wanting to start reloading for my 6.5 and don't want to wait forever. Bass Pro currently has the Reloader 17 in stock if anyone is looking for it, but they charge ~$10 more per pound at $29.99.
 
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Aimsmall55 said:
Well I just cleaned my rifle. It took FOREVER!!! I had no idea reloader 17 was that dirty. It took 20 to 25 patches and brushing it at least 3 times. With h4350 4 or 5 patches and that's it. H4350 is looking more and more alluring the more I think about it. Better barrel life, temp stable, and doesn't FOUL up your barrel!! Not to mention drives tacks!!
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Sure, if you're using water, haha!! I dont have any problems cleaning my barrel when I shoot RE17. I use 2-3 patches Hoppe's #9 and never use a brush. I usually let the Hoppes soak for a couple hours, then run a patch of Kroil, then a patch of Militec-1.
 
JGorski said:
Sure, if you're using water, haha!! I dont have any problems cleaning my barrel when I shoot RE17. I use 2-3 patches Hoppe's #9 and never use a brush. I usually let the Hoppes soak for a couple hours, then run a patch of Kroil, then a patch of Militec-1.
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I really have never had to clean it so much!?? Maybe it was "just time " to clean the hell out of it? But in all serious I really never experienced this with other h4350 loads. Like I said a few patches of bore tech eliminator and it'd be clean as a whistle. How often do you clean your barrel with r17 loads shot out of it?
 
My experience with RL-17 has been the same as jgorski's. It usually only takes two to three "wet" patches of Butch's bore shine, and then a couple of dry patches and it's good to go. I let the Butch's sit for five minutes or so before i run the dry patches through and I don't usually brush either. I've averaged around 20 to 25 rounds in between cleaning it. If your barrel is getting that nasty from RL-17, then definitely don't run the Hybrid 100V!
 
I have not found much difference in my rifles with fouling from RL-17, Varget, H4350, etc. All get dirty after a while.
 
H4350 is basically unobtanium, here are some options:

Just got a Surgeon 6.5CM, 24" Krieger barrel just over a month ago. What a great rifle. Could find all components but recommended powder of H4350 and 4831. Superformance seems to be working with the 140 hybrids but a bit temperature sensitive. Shot this load at the recent Park City match I'm in AZ and the temp has been averaging 109. 45.0gr on the Sartorius gives 2840fps @ 109 deg. Refrigerated ammo, estimate at 50 deg is at 2750. COAL 2.85"

Also did some coarse loads with IMR7828 SSC: 45, 46 and 47 grains. The 46 grain load impact at 700m was about the same as the 45gr Superformance load. The 47gr load was definitely faster but had very very slight cratering but the primer looked the same as the other two loads. No swipe marks on any of these loads and no compressed loads.
 
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Forgot, the 7828 has a distinctively different sound than the Superformance. The 7828 is much more sharp a sound. Guess that is due to the Superformance design to have a longer pulse. Who knows.
 
Aimsmall55 said:
I really have never had to clean it so much!?? Maybe it was "just time " to clean the hell out of it? But in all serious I really never experienced this with other h4350 loads. Like I said a few patches of bore tech eliminator and it'd be clean as a whistle. How often do you clean your barrel with r17 loads shot out of it?
Click to expand...

Actually, when I was just shooting RE17, the patches were very dirty, I mean almost black after scrubbing the barrel with a soaked patch, cant recall if I ever used more than 4 wet soaked patches with RE17 in the barrel, when I did run a clean patch thru the barrel it was clean enough for me, just a tinge of carbon was left on the patch, pretty much like when I clean after shooting h4350. I clean after every shoot, 20-35 shots.
 
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Shot a few 136 L scenars yesterday. They are shorter than I thought. 1.355 inches average. They shot FANTASTIC... My friend who loves to shoot but is not as fortunate as most of us, got behind the rifle at 581 yards and shot some 140 hybrids just to get the hang of the rifle. He almost creamed his pants when the first bullet hit a 3" painted circle. So I had absolutely no idea how fast .. Bc.. Or even bearing surface of this bullet. I just stuffed 42.6 h4350 and loaded it to 2.805". Didn't even measure to the ogive. That little sucker shot a .38" ctc 3 shot group with the 136's at 581 yds. they were flying pretty fast because they impacted 4 inches higher than my 140 hybrid loads. Any how, I believe I've created a monster... And a good load :)
 
I did do a little research on the above rumor, and it's probably just a rumor. ADI in Australia makes the Hodgden Extreme powders. I did not find anything on a recent plant fire there. Since Varget, H4831, etc are showing up, it's probably only a matter of time until we see H4350 again.
 
6.5 creedmoor
41.8 H4350 140 amax or 140 berger vld
43 H4350 130 berger vld
42.8 RL17 130 berger vld

these all shoot great in my gun
 
Oh yeah, 42.6gr H4350, Fed 210 primers, 1.920" case length, .298 neck bushing in a Redding full length sizing die, 2.840" OAL and 2.160" on a Hornaday comparitor. .076" jump in an 8.5 twist Bartlein barrel om a GAP Crusader.

No that didn't take long thrusty, 6 months. Next 1K rounds should take longer than that.
 

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Skigolfmike said:
Oh yeah, 42.6gr H4350, Fed 210 primers, 1.920" case length, .298 neck bushing in a Redding full length sizing die, 2.840" OAL and 2.160" on a Hornaday comparitor. .076" jump in an 8.5 twist Bartlein barrel om a GAP Crusader.

No that didn't take long thrusty, 6 months. Next 1K rounds should take longer than that.
Click to expand...

These dang rifles are so much fun to shoot.. I've got 1150 to 1200 down it. Bought it in January :) At 2800 fps Id expect 3500 rounds or so before the dreaded rebarrel by GAP. At least that's what I've been told.
 
Just whacked a hog with a 140 hybrid... Contrary to Bergers claims , they will kill the HELL out of animals. Hole was as big as my fist on the exit side.... :)
 
dirtking said:
Got any pics of the carnage?!
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Wish I would have thought of it. But hide member Jtrax saw the carnage. Lol... First thing he said was man I gotta get some hybrids from ya. He has some very good shooting rifles. On another note , I shot 3 amaxs (140 factory) at 100 threw his Surgeon Scalpal. And WOW. It's a shooter... Then smacked it at 920 no problem.
null_zps8a365bc7.jpg
 
Skigolfmike said:
Nice. Although, I've been told unless it's a 5 shot group it doesn't count. ;) 2 more opportunities to throw a shot. LOL
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5 shots or it doesn't count always cracks me up. That Hog sure as hell didn't mind "one" shot. Naw... I was just shooting a buddies rifle for him.... He'd been shooting all DAY LONG... And was fatigued. Said it wasn't shooting like it was supposed to , but I think he was just tired. I was fresh. It's a very nice rig , surgeon Scalpal , AICS 2.0, Schmidt 5x25x50. Great shooting gun.
 
I'd say so. Sounds like a very nice rig.

I used to get that 5 shot stuff all the time too, that's why I put the smiley. I will shoot one occasionally as it is a great test of concentration if you have a good shooting rifle. When I am load testing, 3 shots is plenty and usually enough to prove the rifle or the driver is shooting well.
 
Is there any guys running imr4350? Everyone knows that finding h4350 right now is about like seeing a unicorn. Just looking at alternative powders for my creedmoor unless for some reason I find more h4350. Thanks!
 
For y'all raising your MV based on higher impacts on a hot day - the bullets are likely going near the original velocity but the air is thinner at higher temps. If you are using a ballistic app you can play with this as well as pressure to see it. My loads go from 8.0 mils to 7.7mils @1k with a 25 degree temp difference.
 
Yep - there's a .3 mil difference going from 1000' AGL to 300' AGL too.

Been working through some brass that's been through a few reloads. I'm still trimming anywhere from .005 - .010" after sizing. I did learn that sizing is stretching the brass about .003", so that's part of it. Neck thickness is holding at .014-.015", so I'm not losing the necks. I am getting some primers going in pretty soft, but no blown primers yet. It's still shooting good too. I shot the .235" 5 shot group with this brass.

As far as Using IMR4350. There are some loads earlier in the thread. I believe what you'll see is something in the 40.5gr - 41.2gr range and you'll probably shoot about 25-50 fps slower. I have about 10 lbs of the stuff for when my H4350 runs out.
 
Any new load information using v100? Like most who don't already have a stock pile of H4350, I havent been able to find any so I bought an 8lb of v100. I know a few people have used it with great results, but there is only limited information. I am going to start load development shortly with v100 using my gas gun and would appreciate any information. Likely going to be shooting 130gr VLDs and 140gr Amax. Thanks!
 
Quick question for you guys reloading for the 140 GR AMAX and in Hornday brass. What neck bushing die size are you guys using?
 
lilharcher said:
Any new load information using v100? Like most who don't already have a stock pile of H4350, I havent been able to find any so I bought an 8lb of v100. I know a few people have used it with great results, but there is only limited information. I am going to start load development shortly with v100 using my gas gun and would appreciate any information. Likely going to be shooting 130gr VLDs and 140gr Amax. Thanks!
Click to expand...

I bought 8lbs of H100V from Powder Valley then all of the sudden had a source for H4350 again and didn't get too far in load development. I was also trying some Hornady 140gr BTHP bullets so my initial tests were probably not good to compare direct to my pet H4350 load (43gr H4350, Berger 140gr VLD, 2820FPS 24" Bartlein). They grouped well enough but most of the ES and SD were a bit high, I tried from 41 to 43 with .5 grain increments. The 43 grain load grouped the best and had the best ES and SD but they were way hot (extractor marks on brass) and were doing 2930fps!! I did notice what others have said about it being dirty, all of the cases had carbon built up on the necks and it didn't come all the way off after polishing for around 6 hours in a tumbler.
 
NP, forgot to mention I was jumping those 140gr BTHP .020, I'm starting to see that tuning the jump straightens out the ED/SD with minimal changes in 100 yd accuracy for the most part.

Once I get through the next two club matches I plan on experimenting with it a bit more since it gave some good velocity gains. I'll post up what I find out.
 
Anybody running AA4350 with 140s. Getting low on h4350 and have an opportunity to get some AA4350 or even imr 4350. Which would be better as far as temp stability?
 
I thought I was doing good with 6lbs of H4350 secured by my Dad, finally got a chance to pick it up from him and it's 60fps slower than my last lot :| So I broke out the 8lb jug of H100V i bought to try out and will probably shoot this up in competitions and save the slow lot of H4350 for training / hunting.

6.5 Creedmoor
24" Bartlein Barrel w/TBAC 30P-1
Hornady Brass 2x fired
42.5gr H100V
Fed 210M
Berger 140gr VLD Target
.040" jump, 2.125" Ogive
AVG 2871fps measured at muzzle from Magnetospeed v2
ES 21 SD 8

Qk1Z5oO.jpg
 
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Anyone have any suggestions for primers with a tougher cup than the 210M when running 6.5CM out of a gasser? My GAP10 loved to pierce primers before George and the gang swapped it from a DPMS to Armalite bolt (went from a .080 to .068 firing pin and that took care of it) but my JP LRP-07 in 6.5CM still has an .080 firing pin. The JP hasn't pierced a primer even with loads hotter than I could run in the GAP10 when it still had the .080 firing pin but there is a very slight ridge/crater around the firing pin strike.

I've heard Tula/Wolf LR primers are very consistent for ES/SD and have tough cups but which one would be recommended? There is KVB7 (large rifle), KVB762 (large rifle 7.62 NATO), and KVB7M (large rifle magnum.) I haven't used any of them (not that you can find any to purchase right now) but what would be the recommended primer for 6.5CM? I'm open to other brand suggestions too as long as they have a thicker/tougher cup than the 210M.

Looking forward to Berger releasing the 6.5 130 Hybrid, should be a great bullet to run out of the GAP10 and the LRP07 where 2.800 is the magazine limit and the 130s should be a little easier on the gas system than the 140s. I'm maxed out at 2740fps out of the 22" barrel on the JP LRP07 using 42.3gr H4350 and 140 Amax; I ran up to 42.7 in testing with no velocity gain beyond 42.2/42.3. I'm hoping I should be able to get the 130 Hybrid up to 2825 minimum out of the 22" barrel.
 
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I switched to Tula's in my LR 6.5CM.Using the magnums as that's all I could get.Less cratering with the same load and no change in accuracy.
 
CCI 200s are have a harder case than Fed 210s if you can find them. In my initial loads I did not see a difference in velocity or accuracy with Fed 210s or CCI 200s.

FWIW, I just loaded 50 rounds with new brass. I did a full length sizing first with the expander ball as some of the necks were in various stages of round. It apeared to need about .2 mil elevation at 1K over my brass that's been fired multiple times. Did not seem to be as accurate either. I guess I have a few rounds for foulers and practice until they are ready for reloading.
 
Kiba said:
Anyone have any suggestions for primers with a tougher cup than the 210M when running 6.5CM out of a gasser? My GAP10 loved to pierce primers before George and the gang swapped it from a DPMS to Armalite bolt (went from a .080 to .068 firing pin and that took care of it) but my JP LRP-07 in 6.5CM still has an .080 firing pin. The JP hasn't pierced a primer even with loads hotter than I could run in the GAP10 when it still had the .080 firing pin but there is a very slight ridge/crater around the firing pin strike.

I've heard Tula/Wolf LR primers are very consistent for ES/SD and have tough cups but which one would be recommended? There is KVB7 (large rifle), KVB762 (large rifle 7.62 NATO), and KVB7M (large rifle magnum.) I haven't used any of them (not that you can find any to purchase right now) but what would be the recommended primer for 6.5CM? I'm open to other brand suggestions too as long as they have a thicker/tougher cup than the 210M.

Looking forward to Berger releasing the 6.5 130 Hybrid, should be a great bullet to run out of the GAP10 and the LRP07 where 2.800 is the magazine limit and the 130s should be a little easier on the gas system than the 140s. I'm maxed out at 2740fps out of the 22" barrel on the JP LRP07 using 42.3gr H4350 and 140 Amax; I ran up to 42.7 in testing with no velocity gain beyond 42.2/42.3. I'm hoping I should be able to get the 130 Hybrid up to 2825 minimum out of the 22" barrel.
Click to expand...

I use cci #34/41 in all my gassers.
 
Has anyone tried IMR 8208xbr with the 6.5 CM? Like H4350, it's supposed to be very velocity stable w/temperature changes, although the loading manuals indicate that the overall velocity might be a little lower. I'm into my last pound of H4350, so I need to know if the IMR 8208xbr is worth a try. Thanks.
 
OneShotJim said:
Has anyone tried IMR 8208xbr with the 6.5 CM? Like H4350, it's supposed to be very velocity stable w/temperature changes, although the loading manuals indicate that the overall velocity might be a little lower. I'm into my last pound of H4350, so I need to know if the IMR 8208xbr is worth a try. Thanks.
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I would think that it would be good for the 120 to 123 grain pils. From what I understand , the burn rate is a bit fast for the 140's. Like a .308, perfect powder for the 155's, but too fast for the 175's. This is just my experience and I admit I may be off, but I would bet I'm pretty close in that assessment.
 
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