600y 223 Wylde *First load test pictures*

[Sugarbug]

My rifle:

This rifle was built with the goal to shoot at 600y pretty much exclusively.

Barrel: Krieger 24" Heavy VarMatch in 223 Wylde
Upper: Seekins Precision iRMT-3
Lower: Legions Firearms Billet Lower
Handguard: Seekins Precision SP3R V2 Keymod 15"
Trigger: Geiselle Hi-Speed National Match
Stock: Magpul PRS
Optic: SWFA SS 16x
Optic mount: Bobro Extended 30mm QD
BCG: Rainier Arms
BiPod: Harris S-BRM 6-9 notched.

 

[ORD]

Couple things...

1) double-check with Krieger about the EXACT barrel diameter/contour from the journal back to the shoulder on the barrel extension because that particular barrel may be a bit too large to work with the Seekins Ti barrel nut that MUST be used with any of the iRMT uppers (whether the -3 or -R upper...both use the same barrel nut). I know it is heavier than their DCM/HBAR barrel, but can't recall HOW MUCH bigger. The nature of the Ti barrel nut will only permit barrels with a MAX OD of 1.00" at its largest point. If you like the mounting setup for the handguard (and the iRMT barrel nut setup WILL work), there are other options that may buy you some additional breathing room under the handguard, including the Seekins iRMT-R upper with their MCSR (1.75" ID) and BAR rails (1.8" ID). You lose the "flat bottom" aspect of the rail which is what I really like about them, but you gain a veritable plethora of extra room inside the handguard for different gas block options on a larger contour barrel.

2 and 3) not all lo-pro gas blocks were created equal (and there aren't too many lo-pro options in the large, 0.936" journal size found on the Varmatch). Off the top of my head, I know that the Troy Industries block will work...not sure about others. See here: .936 Low-Profile Gas Block|Battlerail Accessories|Battlerails|Upgrades|Troy Industries| | Low Profile Gas Blocks I do NOT believe that the standard Varmatch gas block that is offered by Krieger with every Varmatch barrel will even come close to clearing the SP3R rail. A "clamp on" style block will also not work well as the screws for the clamp that extend below the block take up too much room with such a large gas block to fit under the rail. If you want lo-pro for that combo, you are left with a "set screw" style block. As for "adjustable" lo-pro gas blocks that will fit that big a barrel under the SP3R rail...NONE that I know of. There aren't many mfgs that even make an adjustable block for a journal that size (JP and PRI come to mind and neither will work with that setup).

As for the Seekins setup...I am in the midst of a precision build on that exact same platform mated to an SP223 billet lower. Mine will not be wearing quite that enormous a barrel (custom 20" SDM-esque tube from Paul Craddock at Craddock Precision), but will be sporting an adjustable block under the 15" rail. However...that's with a 0.750" journal and not the larger 0.936 you are trying to work with.

 

[Sugarbug]

Couple things...

1) double-check with Krieger about the EXACT barrel diameter/contour from the journal back to the shoulder on the barrel extension because that particular barrel may be a bit too large to work with the Seekins Ti barrel nut that MUST be used with any of the iRMT uppers (whether the -3 or -R upper...both use the same barrel nut). I know it is heavier than their DCM/HBAR barrel, but can't recall HOW MUCH bigger. The nature of the Ti barrel nut will only permit barrels with a MAX OD of 1.00" at its largest point. If you like the mounting setup for the handguard (and the iRMT barrel nut setup WILL work), there are other options that may buy you some additional breathing room under the handguard, including the Seekins iRMT-R upper with their MCSR (1.75" ID) and BAR rails (1.8" ID). You lose the "flat bottom" aspect of the rail which is what I really like about them, but you gain a veritable plethora of extra room inside the handguard for different gas block options on a larger contour barrel.

2 and 3) not all lo-pro gas blocks were created equal (and there aren't too many lo-pro options in the large, 0.936" journal size found on the Varmatch). Off the top of my head, I know that the Troy Industries block will work...not sure about others. See here: .936 Low-Profile Gas Block|Battlerail Accessories|Battlerails|Upgrades|Troy Industries| | Low Profile Gas Blocks I do NOT believe that the standard Varmatch gas block that is offered by Krieger with every Varmatch barrel will even come close to clearing the SP3R rail. A "clamp on" style block will also not work well as the screws for the clamp that extend below the block take up too much room with such a large gas block to fit under the rail. If you want lo-pro for that combo, you are left with a "set screw" style block. As for "adjustable" lo-pro gas blocks that will fit that big a barrel under the SP3R rail...NONE that I know of. There aren't many mfgs that even make an adjustable block for a journal that size (JP and PRI come to mind and neither will work with that setup).

As for the Seekins setup...I am in the midst of a precision build on that exact same platform mated to an SP223 billet lower. Mine will not be wearing quite that enormous a barrel (custom 20" SDM-esque tube from Paul Craddock at Craddock Precision), but will be sporting an adjustable block under the 15" rail. However...that's with a 0.750" journal and not the larger 0.936 you are trying to work with.

Thanks for that response! Going to take a few minutes and do some more research you put me on the path for tonight.

So no adjustable block? Not the end of then world, I suppose.

But drilling into the Krieger? That is very sad to me

 

[ORD]

Thanks for that response! Going to take a few minutes and do some more research you put me on the path for tonight.

So no adjustable block? Not the end of then world, I suppose.

But drilling into the Krieger? That is very sad to me

You do not necessarily have to "drill into" your barrel to mount a set-screw gas block although having the barrel properly "dimpled" for that kind of block is never a BAD idea as it is slightly more secure and provides a consistent alignment of the block. A set-screw block isn't the same as having a gas block "pinned" to the barrel (which does require some serious drilling). You can run a set-screw block with just some high-temp loctite on the screw threads (especially since it'll be under your rail and not subject to the potential abuse an exposed block might otherwise receive). If you do decide to have it dimpled, it can be done on your own with some simple tools, or you can send it out and get it done for <$35 including S&H both ways.

 

[Sugarbug]

You do not necessarily have to "drill into" your barrel to mount a set-screw gas block although having the barrel properly "dimpled" for that kind of block is never a BAD idea as it is slightly more secure and provides a consistent alignment of the block. A set-screw block isn't the same as having a gas block "pinned" to the barrel (which does require some serious drilling). You can run a set-screw block with just some high-temp loctite on the screw threads (especially since it'll be under your rail and not subject to the potential abuse an exposed block might otherwise receive). If you do decide to have it dimpled, it can be done on your own with some simple tools, or you can send it out and get it done for <$35 including S&H both ways.

Thank you for clarifying. That is good to know.

 

[Howa4AU]

ORD, will this JP possibly work with that barrel/rail configuration? JP Rifles

 

[ORD]

ORD, will this JP possibly work with that barrel/rail configuration? JP Rifles

It'll be REALLY tight and is most likely just too big. The SP3R handguard/rail, because of its shape/design, isn't very forgiving in terms of the space you have available under the rail. The biggest problem I have seen with people trying to squeeze big barrels and even lo-pro blocks under them isn't the total height inside the rail, but rather in encroachment of two angles that go from the sides of the rail up to the top of the rail.

 

[scudzuki]

I got my Kreiger 24" match barrel a few weeks ago after a 4 month wait.
It came with a gas block, which I was not expecting.
Fortunately I had not purchased one yet; handy that it came with one, since I was able to assemble the upper that night.
I just mention it because you may not be aware the GB is included. It is not low profile but may fit your application.

I just built mine on an Aero Precision forged upper with a YHM quad rail FF tube I had lying around (heavy sucker) since I wanted a bottom rail to mount a tripod. Nothin' fancy, like me.

Good luck with your build.

Joe

 

[Sugarbug]

It'll be REALLY tight and is most likely just too big. The SP3R handguard/rail, because of its shape/design, isn't very forgiving in terms of the space you have available under the rail. The biggest problem I have seen with people trying to squeeze big barrels and even lo-pro blocks under them isn't the total height inside the rail, but rather in encroachment of two angles that go from the sides of the rail up to the top of the rail.

Yep. That's what has me worried. I emailed them to see if they know what the circular ID is; i.e. if you inscribed a circle within the rail, what would the maximum allowable diameter of that circle be.

And coincidentally, the breech diameter is 1.0" according to my order info. I'll micrometer it when it comes in just to see how close to 1" it is. If it's a really snug fit, I might like that even more.

I like that gas block. The octagonal shape might aid in fitting it in the triangular handguard, but it all hinges on the ID of that rail. Hope it works. Do you know Seekins name here? Thought I might get a quick response if I was able to PM him directly.

I got my Kreiger 24" match barrel a few weeks ago after a 4 month wait.
It came with a gas block, which I was not expecting.
Fortunately I had not purchased one yet; handy that it came with one, since I was able to assemble the upper that night.
I just mention it because you may not be aware the GB is included. It is not low profile but may fit your application.

I just built mine on an Aero Precision forged upper with a YHM quad rail FF tube I had lying around (heavy sucker) since I wanted a bottom rail to mount a tripod. Nothin' fancy, like me.

Good luck with your build.

Joe

I wasn't aware it was going to come with one, but I'd really like to have a low-pro. Where does Krieger tap for the gas port?

 

[Howa4AU]

JP says minimum recommended tube ID 1.75" to allow .05" clearance all around. Seekins says the rail is 2" diameter but doesn't specify ID or OD. I am thinking that is OD. I have that gas block on a build with a JP Vtach hand guard. I just measured the gas block at 1.375" and the OD of the handguard at 1.975". It has enough clearance. The question is can you adjust the gas block screw with the hand guard on? May depend on how the holes line up. Or you could always get the 12" hand guard.

 

[Sugarbug]

JP says minimum recommended tube ID 1.75" to allow .05" clearance all around. Seekins says the rail is 2" diameter but doesn't specify ID or OD. I am thinking that is OD. I have that gas block on a build with a JP Vtach hand guard. I just measured the gas block at 1.375" and the OD of the handguard at 1.975". It has enough clearance. The question is can you adjust the gas block screw with the hand guard on? May depend on how the holes line up. Or you could always get the 12" hand guard.

Hoping to not need to go to the 12" hand guard. If I did, I'd just use the block that the barrel will come with. Trying to push the bipod out there as far as possible.

 

[scudzuki]

JP says minimum recommended tube ID 1.75" to allow .05" clearance all around. Seekins says the rail is 2" diameter but doesn't specify ID or OD. I am thinking that is OD. I have that gas block on a build with a JP Vtach hand guard. I just measured the gas block at 1.375" and the OD of the handguard at 1.975". It has enough clearance. The question is can you adjust the gas block screw with the hand guard on? May depend on how the holes line up. Or you could always get the 12" hand guard.

It uses a standard gas tube with the dog leg bend which puts the gas tube hole pretty close to the barrel.
It is basically cylindrical with flats cut on the sides; the OD is 1.490" and it's 1.25" across the flats.
I attached a crappy cell phone pic, hope this helps.

Joe

*edit* well, I attached a picture but I sure can't get it to load from the thumbnail, sorry about that.

 

[ORD]

The Seekins SP3R isn't "2in in diameter" but rather 2" wide across the flat, bottom of the handguard.

Here is a link to the diagram I was looking for earlier and couldn't find on the ID of the SP3R handguard (its about half-way down the page...ignore the thread title...its the diagram included in the thread that's important):

NEED HEATSEEKINS ATTENTION - Osprey OPS-416 piston system with iRMT3 & SP3R - AR15.Com Archive

In your case, OP, just substitute the 0.750" barrel for your 0.936" barrel and adjust the outer clearances accordingly and you should be able to determine, with JP's or Scudzuki's numbers whether it will clear.

 

[scudzuki]

According to that diagram, it will JUST fit.
The supplied gas block could easily be cut down for more clearance in the regions where it might contact (the bottom will theoretically have only .002" clearance, not enough for a free float system).

If you have a friend with a mill, have 'em whack 1/8" off the bottom of the GB.

Alternatively buy a low profile GB. Myself, I have a machine shop, so it's obvious which way I'd go.

Joe

 

[Sugarbug]

The Seekins SP3R isn't "2in in diameter" but rather 2" wide across the flat, bottom of the handguard.

Here is a link to the diagram I was looking for earlier and couldn't find on the ID of the SP3R handguard (its about half-way down the page...ignore the thread title...its the diagram included in the thread that's important):

NEED HEATSEEKINS ATTENTION - Osprey OPS-416 piston system with iRMT3 & SP3R - AR15.Com Archive

In your case, OP, just substitute the 0.750" barrel for your 0.936" barrel and adjust the outer clearances accordingly and you should be able to determine, with JP's or Scudzuki's numbers whether it will clear.

I'm thinking no... but still can't completely say it wouldn't work. That JP gas block asks for 1.75 ID. Horizontally, we have 1.8040", vertically we have 1.622". But the requirements assume the rail is circular. I can't decide

 

[ORD]

I'm thinking no... but still can't completely say it wouldn't work. That JP gas block asks for 1.75 ID. Horizontally, we have 1.8040", vertically we have 1.622". But the requirements assume the rail is circular. I can't decide

View attachment 9390

Assuming your numbers are accurate (which they appear to be), then the basic "height over bore" (i.e. - the mid-line of the bore or 1/2 of 0.936" gas block seat) for the JP block (0.770") would appear to give you roughly 0.105" clearance between the top of the block and the top of the rail inside the handguard. You would also appear to have roughly 0.122" of clearance between the bottom of the block and the inside bottom of the rail. With it being that close...I'd be VERY tempted to order one from a trusted vendor that will accept returns without gouging you and give it a try.

 

[Sugarbug]

If I buy that lower and handguard and block, am I going to have any other options if the GB doesn't work or will I be forced to go 12" handguard?

I really, really want it to work, lol.

 

[ORD]

If I buy that lower and handguard and block, am I going to have any other options if the GB doesn't work or will I be forced to go 12" handguard?

I really, really want it to work, lol.

The Troy low-profile block I linked you to in my first post above in this thread will work without question...it just isn't an adjustable block.

 

[Howa4AU]

According to the diagram in the link provided the SP3R is only 1.8" wide instead of 2". If I use the measurements in the diagram and adjust the clearances for a .936 barrel and take measurements from the JP gas block I have here, then it is very tight. You would have .1" clearance on top, .23" clearance on the sides, .112" on the angles, and only .079 on the bottom. It is so close, especially on the bottom, I would think it would not work. The one I am using to measure is not installed and the screws are all the way down pulling the block completely together- it will not be that tight together installed over your barrel. 1/16" gap will leave it touching the bottom of the hand guard.

 

[Sugarbug]

According to the diagram in the link provided the SP3R is only 1.8" wide instead of 2". If I use the measurements in the diagram and adjust the clearances for a .936 barrel and take measurements from the JP gas block I have here, then it is very tight. You would have .1" clearance on top, .23" clearance on the sides, .112" on the angles, and only .079 on the bottom. It is so close, especially on the bottom, I would think it would not work. The one I am using to measure is not installed and the screws are all the way down pulling the block completely together- it will not be that tight together installed over your barrel. 1/16" gap will leave it touching the bottom of the hand guard.

The JP calls for a 1.75 ID so that it will have .05" clearance on all sides. It looks like i will be meeting that space requirement. Think I'm going to give it a try. Worst thing is that I have to return it and get something more simple.

 

[Howa4AU]

Only problem is that according to the linked drawing, the overall inside height is 1.622" and not 1.75". However as I said, it looks to me like the closest measurement will be about .079" on the bottom. Interested to see how it comes out. Please let us know. I hope it works for you. I have 2 of those gas blocks and I really like them. If JP would just put a stop for the adjustment screw so you wouldn't have to loctite it...

 

[Sugarbug]

Only problem is that according to the linked drawing, the overall inside height is 1.622" and not 1.75". However as I said, it looks to me like the closest measurement will be about .079" on the bottom. Interested to see how it comes out. Please let us know. I hope it works for you. I have 2 of those gas blocks and I really like them. If JP would just put a stop for the adjustment screw so you wouldn't have to loctite it...

Yeah. I am seeing the same thing. It's going to be tight, but it's only recommending .05" clearance on all sides. I'll let you all know what happens, but it will be a while. Found termites in the house and that sucked up all my "damnit-this-was-for-my-build" money.

I'll post here when I do get all the components together. I'm pretty impatient and I might just brave the wife's wrath and put it on the CC.

 

[Sugarbug]

My Krieger barrel showed up today. 24" heavy varmatch in 223 wylde. Came right in at 1.000" (+\- .0005") so the upper should work. Going to be a very tight fit. Hopefully their 1" max is allowing for barrels that are all the way to that limit.

 

[ORD]

My Krieger barrel showed up today. 24" heavy varmatch in 223 wylde. Came right in at 1.000" (+\- .0005") so the upper should work. Going to be a very tight fit. Hopefully their 1" max is allowing for barrels that are all the way to that limit.

If, for some strange reason, your current Ti barrel nut that came with your rail will NOT work with your varmatch barrel...don't throw in the towel too early. Glen has previously indicated that they have some "bigger"/larger ID nuts available (now by that...I don't mean 1.2", but I think Glen said around 1.05"+ if memory serves as opposed to the typical 1.003-1.009" barrel nut ID). I think you'll be AOK with the std nut, but just in case...

 

[Sugarbug]

If, for some strange reason, your current Ti barrel nut that came with your rail will NOT work with your varmatch barrel...don't throw in the towel too early. Glen has previously indicated that they have some "bigger"/larger ID nuts available (now by that...I don't mean 1.2", but I think Glen said around 1.05"+ if memory serves as opposed to the typical 1.003-1.009" barrel nut ID). I think you'll be AOK with the std nut, but just in case...

That is good to know. Thank you for letting me know.

 

[Sugarbug]

Finally got the handguard ordered.

Now, of course, the gas block is out of stock. I didn't want to order it before in the event that it took two months to get the handguard to check the fit.

JP Rifles shows it on its website, so I emailed them to find out if it was in stock. I also asked what their return policy is in case it doesn't fit and needed to return it...

I was told, "We have a 15% restocking fee that we don't normally use, but 'it's there if we need it...'"

Lol, that last bit confused me. So am I going to be charged a restocking fee or not? It's a moot point anyways because they didn't tell me if the gas block was in stock. Lol.

If it's not one thing...

 

[ORD]

If JP will allow you to add an item to your cart without bringing up an "Out of Stock/Backorder" pop-up notice, then they have the item available for immediate shipment in my experience.

Can't help with the restocking fee issue...sorry...but I can tell you that you shouldn't be out a bunch of money, if anything at all, because you can always resell it on the market (here, BARFCOM, etc.) for at least close to what you'll have in it by the time you pay for S&H (~$100).

I've still got my eyes out for one of these for you, but haven't seen one yet today. I'll let you know by PM if I can source one for you.

 

[Sugarbug]

Thanks, Bryce. Hopefully they'll let me know if it's in stock for sure, then I can order it there. Then just sell it on the hide if needed. So close!

 

[Cold_Bore_88]

I'm building a 600y AR. My 24" Krieger heavy varmatch barrel will be in next week.

I think I'd like to go with these:

Seekins SP3R Quad Rail 15"
http://www.seekinsprecision.com/quad...uad-rail.html/

Seekins iRMT-3 Billet Upper
http://www.seekinsprecision.com/ar-u...t-3-upper.html

The only drawback is the proprietary aspect of the SP3R and the iRMT-3 (can only mate with each other), but I like the screw pattern to attach the hand guard very much.

I have three questions for you experts if you don't mind (please only those with experience):

1) Is there any information or experience you have that would keep you from this combination?

2) Will my heavy barrel and a low profile gas block fit under the handguard? The muzzle diameter of the barrel is .92.

3) What gas block do you recommend? I'd like low-profile to fit under the handguard; adjustable; and something that clamps to the barrel rather than having to drill through it.

Thank you in advance for your time with my questions. If I need to clarify anything, please just ask.

Let me start off by saying I love my Seekins. I have a 10.5" SBR that has never had any problems. The flared mag wells are great and make mag changes super fast and easy. Seekins also has a very distinguished look.

As a couple of other people have stated, I would check on the barrel diameter. I use the Seekins adjustable block for .75" OD and its great.

To be completely honest, I would not get such a heavy barrel, if your dimensions are correct. There really is no point. I would stick with a standard .75" heavy. Parts are easier to find and the added accuracy with anything thicker is virtually non-exisitant (unless your planning on shooting full auto). I have hit 6" plates at 600 yards reapeatedly with a 10.5" barrel.

Just my two cents. Avoid the whole problem and get a thinner barrel. It wont make a noticable difference.

 

[Sugarbug]

Let me start off by saying I love my Seekins. I have a 10.5" SBR that has never had any problems. The flared mag wells are great and make mag changes super fast and easy. Seekins also has a very distinguished look.

As a couple of other people have stated, I would check on the barrel diameter. I use the Seekins adjustable block for .75" OD and its great.

To be completely honest, I would not get such a heavy barrel, if your dimensions are correct. There really is no point. I would stick with a standard .75" heavy. Parts are easier to find and the added accuracy with anything thicker is virtually non-exisitant (unless your planning on shooting full auto). I have hit 6" plates at 600 yards reapeatedly with a 10.5" barrel.

Just my two cents. Avoid the whole problem and get a thinner barrel. It wont make a noticable difference.

Hindsight is 20/20. But I already have the barrel and decided on the handguard and all that after.

I'm an infant in the world of precision shooting. I suppose I could get it recontoured, but right now I'm just going to try and make it work. At the end of my budget anyways.

 

[Cold_Bore_88]

Hindsight is 20/20. But I already have the barrel and decided on the handguard and all that after.

I'm an infant in the world of precision shooting. I suppose I could get it recontoured, but right now I'm just going to try and make it work. At the end of my budget anyways.

My bad man. I misread that you already had it. At that point, I would agree just to make it work. You will have to post some pictures and show us the set up. I would be interested to see it. Gonna be sweet.

 

[Sugarbug]

I definitely will. Wish the glass would be more impressive, but it's going to be a SWFA SS 20x in a NF Uni-Mount UL 30mm (1.375" O.C.) or the Bobro one-piece 30mm QD Mount. Do you guys have a recommendation?

The Bobro is about $20 cheaper and QD (by no means a necessary feature, just something to consider).

 

[Sugarbug]

Ok...

Legions Firearms Lower
Seekins Precision iRMT-3 Upper
Seekins Precision SP3R 15"
Magpul PRS
Geiselle Hi-Speed National Match 2 Stage Trigger
Krieger 24" Heavy Varmatch in 223 Wylde
Harris 6-9 S-BRM bipod

Couple things:
I LOVE the hand guard and the way it mates to the upper. It's just extremely solid. Very impressed with the fit and finish. There was concern that the barrel nut might be just a little (we're talking thousandths) too small with this heavy barrel. It measures 1.000" which is what Seekins said was the max diameter for that nut. THANKFULLY, it slid right on and I probably had a thousandth or two either way.

The bad: while we were thinking about whether the JP Low Profile .936 gas block would have enough clearance inside the rail, I completely forgot to think about the fact that the inserts to hold the bottom rail section on for the bipod would cause a HUGE clearance issue. It was already tight, then I further complicated it by having a gas block and rail studs fighting over the same small space. I haven't been able to find the JP block yet and just checked to see if the one from Krieger would work (not even close), but it did show me the inherent issue with the rail section for the bipod.

I could go to a 12" rail, but my aesthetically-anal mind is fighting the thought of 12 inches of barrel sticking out of the hand guard.

I've also thought about finding a side-rail mounting bipod instead. There are a few options, but I have no experience with them.

Do you guys have any thoughts on the side-mounted bipods?

 

[elfster1234]

Wow, that looks like a perfect set up for some long range bug hole fun. I wouldnt change a thing and the barrel is very impressive. Post some picks of your groups when you can. Your rifle is awesome and 600yards will be a walk in the park.

What scope are you going to run?

Ok...

Legions Firearms Lower
Seekins Precision iRMT-3 Upper
Seekins Precision SP3R 15"
Magpul PRS
Geiselle Hi-Speed National Match 2 Stage Trigger
Krieger 24" Heavy Varmatch in 223 Wylde
Harris 6-9 S-BRM bipod

Couple things:
I LOVE the hand guard and the way it mates to the upper. It's just extremely solid. Very impressed with the fit and finish. There was concern that the barrel nut might be just a little (we're talking thousandths) too small with this heavy barrel. It measures 1.000" which is what Seekins said was the max diameter for that nut. THANKFULLY, it slid right on and I probably had a thousandth or two either way.

The bad: while we were thinking about whether the JP Low Profile .936 gas block would have enough clearance inside the rail, I completely forgot to think about the fact that the inserts to hold the bottom rail section on for the bipod would cause a HUGE clearance issue. It was already tight, then I further complicated it by having a gas block and rail studs fighting over the same small space. I haven't been able to find the JP block yet and just checked to see if the one from Krieger would work (not even close), but it did show me the inherent issue with the rail section for the bipod.

I could go to a 12" rail, but my aesthetically-anal mind is fighting the thought of 12 inches of barrel sticking out of the hand guard.

I've also thought about finding a side-rail mounting bipod instead. There are a few options, but I have no experience with them.

Do you guys have any thoughts on the side-mounted bipods?

 

[Sugarbug]

Wow, that looks like a perfect set up for some long range bug hole fun. I wouldnt change a thing and the barrel is very impressive. Post some picks of your groups when you can. Your rifle is awesome and 600yards will be a walk in the park.

What scope are you going to run?

I'm a little embarrassed to say that I'm topping all that gun with a SWFA SS 16x in a Bobro or Larue mount. I would like to get the NF 12-42BR, but I'm already working two jobs and in college full time with a third child on the way. Finishing this was a stretch as it is (gave up quite a few items in the safe) and I just can't swing $1200-$1400 anytime soon. It's also my first precision rifle and I'll be learning shooting and reloading for it.

Not my first choice, but it's something to learn with until I can move up.

 

[Sugarbug]

Update on the clearance issues for those who are thinking of running this rail with that heavy-contour barrel:

It is not possible. The smallest low-profile gas block I could find has a 1.25 OD. You only have .280" total under the barrel. With that, you have to fit your gas block, space between your gas block and rail section screws, and the rail section screws. It cannot be done with this handguard (15") and a .936 barrel.

For now, I'm just going to move the bottom rail section back a few inches so there is no issue with the gas block. Defeats the purpose of having the 15" handguard, but right now I just need to get it running without incurring more costs.

 

[BigJW]

If you're available on Saturday and want to come by the Shop I can take a look at it. I may need to do a little machining on it but I bet that it's not "impossible" I'd do the work for free if it means that you're shooting in next months match. I can put you between me and the "Dirt Thrower".

 

[Sugarbug]

If you're available on Saturday and want to come by the Shop I can take a look at it. I may need to do a little machining on it but I bet that it's not "impossible" I'd do the work for free if it means that you're shooting in next months match. I can put you between me and the "Dirt Thrower".

Haha, Jake.

I'm just going to move the bipod back a bit. Not the end of the world. I do still need to get with you about those primers, though. Phone should be back soon and I can call.

I've begun RO training at Honey Island, though, and am trying to knock all of the sessions out in the next week. So I may miss next month's match. Also, I may move to the F/T-R matches so I can load beyond magazine length. Not 100% sure I will or not. We will see. But I can tell ya, I'm not going to be shooting until I've worked up the loads for this rifle.

You may be the dirt catcher for the next match.

 

[ORD]

If you're available on Saturday and want to come by the Shop I can take a look at it. I may need to do a little machining on it but I bet that it's not "impossible" I'd do the work for free if it means that you're shooting in next months match. I can put you between me and the "Dirt Thrower".

Josh,

You really should take BigJW up on his offer to do a little free machining work on your bipod rail mounting hardware because you really probably only need an additional 0.10" or slightly more at most for the ultra-low profile block like the Troy and similarly ones to mount up and clear everything. As I recall from installing my rail as far forward as humanly possible, the bolts have a great deal of "extra" length/material to them to get the job done, as do the t-nuts that the bolts thread in to. I am betting that you'd get more than enough room that you require just by shaving the bolts down to be flush (or close to it) with the t-nuts. I'm sure that Jake can eyeball it for you and give you a better idea of exactly how much addt'l room he can get for you, but it wouldn't be a huge job by any means. If it were me...I'd have probably already broken out the dremel or milled off what I needed and been done with it.

The other thing that comes to mind...did you mount the rail section across the two forward-most slots or did you move it forward enough that you used the forward-most slot and the QD slot for the rear t-nut? While you technically shouldn't do what I just suggested (although it'll work just fine as the t-nuts are wide enough to provide sufficient grip in the QD socket to hold the rail secure on the handguard), that particular spacing of the t-nuts may allow you to have the gas block positioned BETWEEN the nuts/bolts and not contacting them at all (I'm guesstimating as my barrel is still being made and I don't have a spare rifle-length gas system barrel sitting around to measure it for you). Now, you still have to be able to slide the handguard on and get everything mounted up which may take some finagling/elbow grease to make it work, but its another option to consider.

 

[Sugarbug]

Josh,

You really should take BigJW up on his offer to do a little free machining work on your bipod rail mounting hardware because you really probably only need an additional 0.10" or slightly more at most for the ultra-low profile block like the Troy and similarly ones to mount up and clear everything. As I recall from installing my rail as far forward as humanly possible, the bolts have a great deal of "extra" length/material to them to get the job done, as do the t-nuts that the bolts thread in to. I am betting that you'd get more than enough room that you require just by shaving the bolts down to be flush (or close to it) with the t-nuts. I'm sure that Jake can eyeball it for you and give you a better idea of exactly how much addt'l room he can get for you, but it wouldn't be a huge job by any means. If it were me...I'd have probably already broken out the dremel or milled off what I needed and been done with it.

The other thing that comes to mind...did you mount the rail section across the two forward-most slots or did you move it forward enough that you used the forward-most slot and the QD slot for the rear t-nut? While you technically shouldn't do what I just suggested (although it'll work just fine as the t-nuts are wide enough to provide sufficient grip in the QD socket to hold the rail secure on the handguard), that particular spacing of the t-nuts may allow you to have the gas block positioned BETWEEN the nuts/bolts and not contacting them at all (I'm guesstimating as my barrel is still being made and I don't have a spare rifle-length gas system barrel sitting around to measure it for you). Now, you still have to be able to slide the handguard on and get everything mounted up which may take some finagling/elbow grease to make it work, but its another option to consider.

I'm thinking about it... :S I'm hoping Jake has he means to cerakote as well. I'm not sure he'll do it for free now that he knows I probably won't be his dirt deflector, lol.

I'm using the last two keymod holes. I need to order a keymod rail section as the one I'm using is from a Samson Evolution rail.

 

[JLR]

The JP .936 gas block will work with the 15" SP3R rail, but not the way it comes from JP. The screws will need to be changed from the standard allen heads that it comes to pan head style, otherwise it will not clear the rail. The adjustment screw is accessible on mine with the rail installed, fyi. Other than that, it's tight but it fits. You will not be able to put the bipod attachment all the way at the end, but you can get it close. I'll take a picture of it when I get home tonight and post for everyone. The other option for using the 15" rail and a .936 gas block is to machine out some clearance on the sides of the rail to clear the gas block. You can mill out a bit on each side and create all the room that you need

 

[ORD]

I'm using the last two keymod holes. I need to order a keymod rail section as the one I'm using is from a Samson Evolution rail.

@#$%!! My short-term memory is going downhill fast!! I forgot you have the V2 rail with the keymods. Disregard the previous suggestion in my post above re: the QD slot then. I have not used the Seekins keymod rails (obviously), but you might try that route before you get too far out with any modifications. You could be ok (but I'm still thinking you are likely to have clearance issues with the bottom of the handguard/rail mounting hardware and the block without modding something).

 

[JLR]

Here is the JP .936 adjustable gas block stuffed in a Seekins 15" SP3R

 

[ORD]

^^^ Now THAT is pretty slick!!! ^^^

A quick trip to the local Fastenal (or like hardware store) to swap out the bolts and you are in and done!! The only other concern I would have is that I notice you do not have the top rail installed...you MAY run into clearance issues there too, but I can't tell for sure/certain with the pics. Nice job though!!

 

[JLR]

Yeah there's no way you could get the top rail installed all the way out to the end. With it being a 15" rail I'm sure you could trim a bit off and still have plenty of room for whatever accessory you ant to attach up there.

 

[Sugarbug]

Damn. I like the jp.

I went ahead and got the noveske key mod rail section for the bottom.

Clearance issue solved.

Also ordered a Brownell's gas block. Oh boy is that a piece of junk. It's ID is off by a few thousandths so it doesn't fit over the gas port. The gas tube doesn't fit in it either. A gun smith friend offered to fix it for me, but I'll have to wait until next Saturday and drive 2 hours to get to him.

This has been an aggravating build, but fun to see it finally come together.

Here's the rifle with the SWFA and Bobro mount.

Bad shot and lighting makes the furniture look OD green.

 

[Sugarbug]

Here is the JP .936 adjustable gas block stuffed in a Seekins 15" SP3R

Out of curiosity, I'm assuming that SP3R is the v1 (non keymod). Looking at my SP3R V2, the key mods stick out very very little. I was wondering if you thought the top rail would fit with that gas block.

Looks great. Quite the fit.

 

[JLR]

Yes, this is the non key mod rail. I haven't had a look at any of the keymod stuff so I can't help you out there. From your pictures it doesn't look like they protrude into the rail that far so it may just work.

 

[BigJW]

You still coming by the shop on Saturday to get this thing going?

 

[Sugarbug]

Yes indeed. Though it will be in the afternoon since I have to work the AM shift at Honey Island.