KNS anti walk pins with ar 15 triggers?

[radmcg]

Can you use KNS anti walk gen 2 pins with Geissele, Chip Mccormick Tactical trigger or the american trigger corp AR Gold trigger? I know the Ar gold uses proprietary pins but can they be replaced with KNS? What about the Geissele DMR and the Chip McCormick. Anybody that has used the Chip McCormick or the AR Gold feedback would be appreciated . I have 2 DMRs and love them just don't know if there is something better?
AHA
Rad

 

[Veer_G]

I don't believe that Geissele recommends the KNS pins.

 

[Name Enough]

All my ARs have Geissele triggers. Geissele says no go on KNS anti walk pins as will cause damage to the lower and the trigger. Use the pins that come with the trigger.

 

[matt2143]

Geissele may not recommend it but I have 6 geissele DMR triggers in AR-15's and 10's and they work perfectly with all generations of KNS pins.

My primary AR-15 lower with DMR in it has been moved around and has about 8k rounds so far on it.

 

[Silverbullet2]

I just did a lower with a Timney trigger with KNS pins. For what it's worth. J

 

[Jason5R]

Same as silverbullet, Seekins lower, timney, kns pins, no problems.

 

[Wormydog1724]

No seek lower, Giessele super 3 gun, kns pins. 4000 rounds no problems

 

[bhoges]

Ive used a few sets on several different triggers and never had an issue. My current build has Geissele and KNS.

 

[gunfreak101]

Same here I have several geissele triggers with kns puns and they work great.

 

[sawman556]

I have heard this over and over again about not using KNS pins with Geissele triggers and I say it's bullshit. I had the hammer pin of a SD3G walk out on me. The bolt got caught behind the hammer and wouldn't move. I had to remove the stock to fix it. The lower was a Seekins forged with maybe 400 rnds on it. I now use KNS pins with all my triggers including a SSA-E and SD3G. After thousands of rounds there are zero issues. When and if my KNS/Geissele combinations fail, I'll be sure to post the issue.

 

[black max]

I too have had kns pins with giessele triggers for several thousand rounds in three different rifles without any problems.

 

[Regalkismet]

If memory serves me right the k & s pins can damage something on the Geissele DMR trigger... The c clip iirc.. It may still work just not as well as it should...I'm sure a Google search will give you specifics and Geissele definitely says no k & s pins on the dmr trigger . Also the Geissele pins are higher quality/made to better tolerance than the k & s pins.... I don't believe they can cause a problem with the other Geissele triggers.... From everything I've read if your pins are walking out on a Geissele trigger you have another issue as the design itself prevents the pins from walking.

 

[matt2143]

It is not about walking. If you have ever experienced high end triggers (KAC match, Krieger Millazo, Armalite tool steel NM triggers, etc.) it is all about the creep that you feel when the pin turns in the receiver when pulling the trigger instead of the precise bearing surface between the trigger and the pin being the pivot point.

I will have to take a look at the pins and trigger assembly I have not built up next time I am at the garage and see what may be different.

 

[Regalkismet]

I have many higher end triggers 4 Geissele and 3 wilson combat ttu's and I haven't had those type of issues...No creep from pin rotation....and as far as I'm concerned pin rotation is a non issue as long as the pins are of high quality ie hardness/round/smooth it will not damage a lower receiver.. And sawman said he had pins walking out in an earlier post which was what I was referring to . IMHO do whatever works for you. If I were having any kind of issues, especially with a Geissele trigger, I'd contact them and get their input to resolve any issues as they are very willing to do so. You paid for a high quality trigger, might as well make sure it's right.

 

[Kiba]

The Geissele pins are .001" larger than the KNS pins so the trigger & hammer will wobble slightly more-- not a huge deal. The Geissele pins are .155", the KNS pins are .154".

Geissele's main concern is that the KNS pins are much softer than his pins and the internal circlip that retains his hammer pins can raise a burr on the softer KNS pins and cause inconsistent trigger behavior. As long as you don't raise a burr when installing the KNS pins they'll work together just fine.

For info, GAP installs KNS pins on the GAP10 even if you specify a Geissele trigger.

 

[Zebra644]

I replaced the Armalite 2 stage on my Super SASS with Geissele. The pins were rotating in the lower receiver. I installed KNS Gen 2 and not had a single issue and the trigger pull is still phenomenal.

 

[radmcg]

Thanks for all the input. I think I saw KNS is making a .155 set of pins as well now. I think they were at brownells or midway. Looks like that might be the way to go.
Thanks for the help.
Rad

 

[Regalkismet]

I found this post which seems to hit the nail on the head.... Last couple sentences really sums it up:


KNS pins are not recommended on the Geissele triggers. The trigger pin doesn't matter, it's the hammer pin. The assembly uses a circlip INSIDE the hammer pin bore to retain the hammer pin instead of the conventional J spring, and the hammer spring leg retains the trigger pin (as original) in a groove in the pin.That said, you CAN use the 1st gen .155 KNS pins. Geissele has said that it will overstress the circlip and eventually wear out it's tension, thus your hammer will be married to the KNS pins for life.2nd gen pins change the hammer pin to a solid, with the little tabs to retain the outer bars. The 1st gen hammer pin is hollow, with oil holes, and uses a little screw in 'bullet' to aid in insertion. It will expand the circlip and allow installation. No such luck with the 2nd gen, as the sharp sholder will damage the circlip, and likely force it out.I used 1st gen pins in one of my SBR lowers, which I intend will stay in it's current configuration for my lifetime, so nothing lost for me. My other went into another SBR lower that I'm still messing with, thus the factory Geissele pins.KNS pins, contrary to inter-rumor-net, will not in any way ruin the operation of the trigger. *Geissele has noted in several emails that they will replace the circlip, for a fee, as long as the bore/retaining groove has not been damaged.So, it's up to you. 1st gen pins and possibly stressing the factory circlip, 2nd gen pins and probably damaging the circlip, or Geissele factory pins. In any case, use the larger diameter pins.

 

[Strykervet]

I only use 'em on the RRA trigger. Geissele doesn't recommend nor need 'em.

 

[Name Enough]

Since Geiselle seems to know more about their triggers than I do - I will go with their recommendations.

 

[scudzuki]

I use the KNS pins in a bunch of 80% lowers.
Most trigger and hammer pins rotate in the lower, not the fire control part they're installed in, but in an anodized lower, it takes a lot of cycles to wear through the anodizing (but it does happen eventually).
80% lowers finished with DuraCoat don't stand a chance against a hardened pin.

I have 2 such lowers fitted with Geissele SSA triggers and have used them with both the Geissele supplied pins and KNS pins.
Currently they wear the Geissele pins, but the holes in these particular lowers are very tight, and the pins rotate inside the trigger and hammer (as it should be).

That said, I feel no difference in the SSA trigger regardless of what pins are in there, and the KNS pins that came out show no abnormal wear.

Use whichever pins you want.

Joe

 

[scudzuki]

I just did a lower with a Timney trigger with KNS pins. For what it's worth. J

Since Timney triggers do not pivot on the pins and the pins are held in place when the Timney trigger is fixed in place with the setscrews, I don't see the point of using KNS "anti-walk" pins with a Timney AR trigger.

Joe

 

[Silverbullet2]

Since Timney triggers do not pivot on the pins and the pins are held in place when the Timney trigger is fixed in place with the setscrews, I don't see the point of using KNS "anti-walk" pins with a Timney AR trigger.

Joe

Joe,

This was for a client that brought me a box full of parts, and I was paid to install them. I personally run KAC's without KNS anti roll pins, but this person wants what he wants, so I installed it. He loves the set up. J

 

[scudzuki]

Joe,

This was for a client that brought me a box full of parts, and I was paid to install them. I personally run KAC's without KNS anti roll pins, but this person wants what he wants, so I installed it. He loves the set up. J

Yeah, gotta keep your customers happy.
Maybe it adds some tacti-cool factor to the rifle.

Joe