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Suppressors Subsonic 308 Projectile Recommendations

Arbiter

Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
Jul 25, 2011
613
12
36
Tampa, FL
Help me out here guys, let me know what my best options are...

I've got an AI in 308 with a 24" 1-12" barrel that I'm shooting with an AAC 762-SDN-6. I'd like to play around with subsonic loads, but I'm extremely leery about running the risk of baffle strikes or stuck bullets.

Right now I've got some 175gr SMKs, 178gr AMAXs, and 200gr SMKs, and a can of Trail Boss. I'd originally planned on experimenting with the 200gr SMKs for subsonic purposes, and leaving the others for normal distance shooting, but from what I'm gathering in research it sounds like there's just no way to get those 200gr SMKs safely subsonic in my barrel. Has anyone else been in a similar situation and been able to successfully use 200gr SMKs in a 1-12" barrel?

If the 200gr SMKs aren't an option, then it seems the 178gr AMAX may be the next best choice. Has anyone else found a good load for them, using Trail Boss? It seems like there are some wildly varying ideas of how best to build subsonic loads, with some individuals preferring to load backwards, and others using oil (to coat the loaded projectile tip, or the barrel before shooting?). I'd prefer to load and shoot subsonics just like any standard load, using the same methodology and settings wherever possible.

Any recommendations or opinions?
 
12 twist just doesn't have the stability factor you will need with those bullets listed at subsonic speeds. I would look for something like the 150gr pro hunter or something rn. The stability factor for those in a 12 tw is around 2.5 and shoot well. If you were to find something heavy to stabilize you will need the bullet with the shortest bearing surface I think. Experiment and see.
 
12 twist just doesn't have the stability factor you will need with those bullets listed at subsonic speeds. I would look for something like the 150gr pro hunter or something rn. The stability factor for those in a 12 tw is around 2.5 and shoot well. If you were to find something heavy to stabilize you will need the bullet with the shortest bearing surface I think. Experiment and see.

Using the JBM stability calculator, at 1000 FPS the 178gr should have a stability factor of 1.869. Seems like this should be sufficient to leave a decent margin for error...or am I missing something? Is there really any way to tell besides shooting 3-5 rounds each at say, 10, 50, and 100 yards without the suppressor on, before mounting it?
 
You may want to try the Lapua B416 200gr. They are designed to be a subsonic bullet traveling at subsonic speeds. I would not even shoot factory subsonics until I tested them on paper at 100m. If you are building the cartridges you are going to want to chrono anyway and work your velocity down. You are not speeding up the process by not checking paper at 100.
 
Not sure what you got going on there but at 1050fps in a 12 tw I show a stability factor of just above 1 for 800ft asl at 43f.
 
+1. Available on Midway. CoG is further forward to enhance stability hence you can fire a heavy out a slower twist. I bought some loaded rounds and duplicated the load with Trailboss.
 
I have a 12 twist 308 barrel, and have been trying the same thing. I tried 210, 190, 180, 155, 150, 135, and 110gr from various mfg. Some of the heavier bullets I loaded forward and backward, to see if they would stabilize. All my testing was done with Trailboss from 9.5 to 11.5 grains. Most of the velocities ranged from 1000 to 1050 fps. I shot all the loads at 25 yards, it was easy to tell if the bullets keyholed at that range. The thing I learned, I suck at loading subs. None of the loads or bullets I tried consistently stabilized. I got the best groups with 135gr Sierra's, but when I put my can on they shot like crap. I didn't have any baffle strikes, (that I know of). I just could not get anything I tried to group or even shoot consistently. If you want my load data, I will give it to you. I kept track of everything I tried.
 
I'm at basically sea level, and temperatures closer to 70 degrees on average.
i ran the numbers on my software again with your data and still only show a stability factor of 1.06. That is not going to be stable enough. You can shoot them on paper an see but I doubt you will get the results you are after. Keep us posted.
 
I used 170gr round nose bullets out of my 308 1:12 and they stabilized no problem. I used 8.0 grains of titegroup and loaded them to the same o-give length as my 175 smk load. they would hold just over 1" at 100 yards. I quit playing with 308 subs when I got my 300 blk out. It is much more efficient at subs with a much less likely chance of baffle strikes due to the 1:8 twist.
 
I have a rem sps tactical with a 1:12 twist and I use 168 hpbt over 10 grains of trail boss. It will put 5 shots in practically the same hole at 50 yards. I've played with 168 and 8 grains of clays and it is stable at 100, just not as accurate.
 
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+1 for the sierra 180's they worked well for me in my 1-12.
no key holes
it was running about 1035 on average

10.5gr trail-boss
180gr hornady RN
lapua brass new (no special prep)
WLR primers
2.650 COAL

1-12 26" krieger .
 
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Yes, the hornady round nose 180s work well for me too.
The consensus is they have more bearing surface
Contact to the grooves than say a hpbt with a point
Design.




+1 for the sierra 180's they worked well for me in my 1-12.
no key holes
it was running about 1035 on average

10.5gr trail-boss
180gr hornady RN
lapua brass new (no special prep)
WLR primers
2.650 COAL

1-12 26" krieger .
 
Someone once told me when i was worried about baffle strike to shoot into paper with no backing at the muzzle. If you get a clean exit normally its not tumbling yet. I did this by taking a piece of cardboard and cutting a place for the bullet to pass through but have an overlay of paper to shoot through. I tested several loads this way and some showed a keyhole, others didn't. I tested at different distance from teh muzzle as well, 1" all the way to 6" to make sure it would be stable the entire distance it travels through my can. Helped reassure me I wouldn't have a baffle strike from the load I settled on. I use 170gr flat nose with trail boss, The flat nose seems to add a better smack to my ears with the flat nose lol.
 
So I did some experimenting, and tried 178gr AMAX with 11.5 grains of Trail Boss. At 100 yards the paper appeared to be showing slight signs of keyholing, so I didn't try any through the suppressor. Accuracy appeared to be in the 1 MOA vicinity, but as I wasn't really trying for groups I suspect it could have done better. Without access to a chronograph I can't really tell what my velocities are doing, which is a serious detriment to doing this properly.

My next step was to try some Lapua 200gr subsonic projectiles from Midway, loaded on top of 11.5 grains of Trail Boss. Reviews seemed really positive of these, implying that they would be even easier to stabilize than a traditional supersonic projectile. I loaded 10 rounds, but didn't even bother shooting the last 5. Only 4 of the bullets made it onto paper at 100 yards, with an extreme spread of nearly a foot. Keyholing was strongly evident, with bullets impacting at a 60-70 degree angle to the paper. I'm not sure if they were going supersonic or not, I couldn't quite tell if there was a crack from the bullet flight or not. Clearly they weren't going fast enough to come even remotely close to stabilizing. I'm afraid that going up in powder loads isn't going to work due to maxing out case capacity / pressure, without generating enough speed to stabilize. Wondering where to go from here...
 
Updates:

At 12.0 grains of Trail Boss, the 178gr AMAX still fails to properly stabilize at 100 yards. Slight yawing is noticeable in the holes, but it appears to be grouping near MOA. The 200gr Lapua is still keyholing strongly, but the "group" tightened up from 12+ inches down to maybe 5-6".

At 12.5 grains of Trail Boss, there's still some noticeable keyholing with the 178gr AMAX, and groups are still relatively tight (I had to deliberately shift POA over by an inch or so to ensure holes wouldn't overlap while shooting). The 200gr Lapua is still keyholing, but the groups have dramatically shrunk down to 2 MOA or less.

I'm wondering how far up I can take the powder load. I filled a .308 Win case to the top with TB, and it weighed out right at 18.0 grains. It looks like I'm going to run out of case somewhere between 13.0 and 14.0. This seems excessively hot, but without a chronograph it's hard to tell what's going on.
 
I use Hornady 170gr RNL bullets with somewhere around 10.2gr of TB powder and it works great in my 1-12 twist barrels. Ever so slightly below MOA if there isn't much/any wind.
 
10.5 grains of TB/180 gr. Hornady RN @2.65" COL....

always worked for me.
 
Updates:

At 12.0 grains of Trail Boss, the 178gr AMAX still fails to properly stabilize at 100 yards. Slight yawing is noticeable in the holes, but it appears to be grouping near MOA. The 200gr Lapua is still keyholing strongly, but the "group" tightened up from 12+ inches down to maybe 5-6".

At 12.5 grains of Trail Boss, there's still some noticeable keyholing with the 178gr AMAX, and groups are still relatively tight (I had to deliberately shift POA over by an inch or so to ensure holes wouldn't overlap while shooting). The 200gr Lapua is still keyholing, but the groups have dramatically shrunk down to 2 MOA or less.

I'm wondering how far up I can take the powder load. I filled a .308 Win case to the top with TB, and it weighed out right at 18.0 grains. It looks like I'm going to run out of case somewhere between 13.0 and 14.0. This seems excessively hot, but without a chronograph it's hard to tell what's going on.

you can stop there cause at 12 gr there's no way you are subsonic at all. I tried 178 amax yesterday out of my 24" 12tw Schneider and they were stable and with 10.2 gr of trail boss I was 1060fps. It's on the ragged edge of stability like I figured. Try the 150gr stuff like pro hunters or rn. Those show a stability of 2.5 in a 12 tw. I shot them yesterday too and they grouped great. 9.2 gr of tb yielded 1050fps.
 
you can stop there cause at 12 gr there's no way you are subsonic at all. I tried 178 amax yesterday out of my 24" 12tw Schneider and they were stable and with 10.2 gr of trail boss I was 1060fps. It's on the ragged edge of stability like I figured. Try the 150gr stuff like pro hunters or rn. Those show a stability of 2.5 in a 12 tw. I shot them yesterday too and they grouped great. 9.2 gr of tb yielded 1050fps.

What's puzzling the hell out of me is...how are these not stable? I'm almost 2 grains of TB higher than you and still not stable with the 178gr AMAX, using the same barrel length and twist rate. FWIW, I did fire a few rounds of factory 225gr subsonic, and it sounded virtually identical in comparison with the 12.5 grain TB loads. No impacts on target though, so I've got no idea whether they stabilized or not...

I've got some leftover 150gr soft points in loaded ammo that I may pull the projectiles and try loading up instead next.
 
Here is my advice for anyone loading any normally supersonic rifle cartridge at subsonic speeds.

1. Get a chronograph, it is useless to develop a load without one. I can't stress this enough, if you are loading subsonic ammo without one then you wasting your time and money, period. You need to be between 1000 and 1100 feet per second. Too slow and you run the risk of inadequate stability and excessive arc on the trajectory; too fast and you go supersonic with the associated additional noise. The speed of sound varies with temperature. http://www.sengpielaudio.com/calculator-speedsound.htm At 32F it is about 1087 fps, at 90F it is about 1149 fps at -40F it is only 1004 fps. Quiet loads made for southern Texas summers are going to be loud in an Alaskan winter. :)

2. Use magnum primers, the extra heat makes the powder burn more consistently.

3. Just about any magnum pistol powder will work well. I use WC820 (like H110). It burns well even when the case is less than half full and I have never had any detonation issues. I think detonation is a myth and is actually caused by double loads or firing the next round with a squib stuck in the barrel.

4. There is very little to gain with using expensive heavy match grade bullets compared to round nose bullets. At subsonic speeds the higher BC of the pointed bullets are only a tiny bit more streamlined than the round nose bullets. The slow speed still requires that the shooter knows the range to the target precisely no matter what rifle bullet is used.

For example, a 180 grain 30 caliber match bullet has a BC of about .5, a 220 RN .4, a 45 caliber 230 grain .2. Given a zero of 200 yards the match bullet will be 16.5" high at 100 yards, the 220 RN 16.8" high and the 45 cal bullet will be only 18.5" high. The round nose bullets work well.

I have found that using a 147-168 grain FMJ boat tail bullet in a subsonic 308 or 300 blackout/whisper results in poor accuracy. The longer 220 and 240 grain match bullets work very well with a 1-8 twist probably due to the longer bearing surface. Military ball bullets especially suck.

5. Using a cartridge like the 223 or 308 that is designed for a high speed light weight bullet will ensure that a subsonic bullet will never match the accuracy of the standard load. If you want a subsonic 30 caliber that is accurate, use the 300 blackout, if you want versatility, then use the 308.

6. Ballistic calculations that tell you if a bullet will be stable for a certain velocity and twist are only worth the paper they are printed on. The only thing that counts is the size of the group and the shape of the hole they make in a target at least 100 yards away.

I have found that 180 grain RN bullets work well with a 1-12 twist and a 1-10 twist will work up to 220 RN. A 1-8 twist will work on anything up to 240 grain hpbt. If accuracy sucks with your load, then it is probably yawing and you shouldn't use it with a silencer.

Ranb
 
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I just picked up a copy of the 2013 Hodgdon Reloading Manual and it has a decent article on developing subsonic loads using Trail Boss.
 
Subs are dangerous. I would load a lighter bullet and start with a higher velocity and work down. This will give you some experence with the sub sonic relm. You have to be sure they will be stable before shooting them in a supressor. As you said, you dont want baffel strikes.
 
There is a great deal of sound information to be found in this thread. I would only make the following observations:

1. As Ranb suggests " The only thing that counts is the size of the group and the shape of the hole they make in a target at least 100 yards away" but with one additional caveat when the subject at hand is hunting. There has to be some reasonable amount of residual force left in the round at impact. That said, the best solution allows for the use of the heavier (heaviest) roundnose bullets at ranges that are, in my opinion, within 125 yards. Chrony is a must, especially with any position sensitive powder. I went the .308 subsonic, .260 subsonic and 6.8 subsonic route.

Also, for your review and consideration:

Safely Develop and Load Subsonic Ammunition "The loading of subsonic ammunition should not be undertaken lightly. Done incorrectly or by the incautious or inexperienced, it presents a significant risk of grievous bodily harm to the shooter."

The goal is to explain techniques used to safely develop and load subsonic ammunition without risking life and limb. The ultimate danger in subsonic loading is a phenomenon known as Secondary Explosive Effect (SEE). SEE can destroy the strongest rifle action and it can happen on the first shot or the tenth. In fact it is more likely to happen after the bore is dirty from the first few shots. SEE is the result of slow or incomplete ignition of small amounts of smokeless powder. The powder smolders and releases explosive gases which, when finally ignited, detonate in a high order explosion. The warning sign for imminent SEE is a hangfire or delayed ignition.There are a number of techniques that can be used to prevent or delay the onset of SEE. These involve specially prepared cases as well as bullets, in addition to selecting a suitable powder and primer. Lets begin with the easy stuff. All reduced velocity loads should start with a magnum primer. The hotter and longer duration flame ensures the small powder charge lying in the bottom of a large rifle case is properly ignited. Testing revealed that accuracy is increased 8% with magnum primers. Reloading manuals contain minimum powder charges for a reason. Going much below the minimum load with a slow burning rifle powder can trigger SEE. Subsonic loads use fast burning pistol powders, the faster the better. This ensures the powder is easy to ignite and will be totally consumed before the bullet leaves the muzzle. Not only is this safer but it is quieter as well. Quieter is always good when operating in the subsonic realm. A secondary consideration when choosing a powder is its bulk density. That is the amount of volume a given weight of powder will occupy in the case. Bulk densities are typically measured in grains per cubic inch; with the lower number meaning the powder is more voluminous. Fluffy (low bulk density) powders like Red Dot take up much more room in the case. Load density is safety in a subsonic load. It is suggested that loads never go below 30 percent load density (powder occupies 30 percent of the case volume) unless you want to dance with the devil and the deep blue SEE.

Load density can be measured by dropping a length of wood dowel into the loaded case. Mark the dowel where it meets the case mouth. Then pull the dowel out and compare it against the case. Keep notes on load densities for every powder and case combination so that safe loads can be identified at a glance before they are loaded. Don't go below 30% load density! Powders suitable for subsonic loads include: N310, N312, Bullseye, Clays, Titewad, HP38 and Red Dot. There are other suitable powders available but these are the best to start out with. Red Dot is probably the best powder to work with because it gives the highest load densities. The Vihtavuori powders (N310 and N312) are particularly interesting because they burn very quickly and cleanly and they exhibit exceptionally stable performance over an extremely wide range of environmental temperatures. Powder burn rates are important because the low pressures generated by subsonic loads are typically not sufficient to properly seal the case in the chamber. Faster powders create better sealing and less sooty blow-by on the outside of the case. Once the powder choice has been made, the next step is to select and prepare the bullets. Bullet choice for subsonic shooting is much more critical than for conventional ammunition. Low velocity greatly reduces the projectile's rotational rate (RPM) and thus stability. Fast twist barrels are essential to successful subsonic loads. In .30 calibre this means a 1:10 twist or faster. A 1:10 twist will stabilize a 220 grain round-nose bullet at 950 fps. Computer programs that calculate projectile stability are available free on the Internet. These calculators usually quote a Stability Factor (SF) of 1.3 for full stabilization in a conventional load. It has been found through testing that a SF in the range of 2.0 to 2.2 or greater is needed for a bullet to fully stabilize at subsonic velocity. This depends on how well the bullet is balanced with its center of mass. Lapua makes a special subsonic 200 grain .30 caliber bullet that is stable with a SF of only 1.36.

To prevent bullets sticking in a dirty bore, all conventional jacketed bullets used for subsonic loads must be lubricated. There are two primary methods of achieving proper lubrication. The traditional method is to dip the bullets in melted, refined animal fats (lard). The fat hardens as it cools, leaving a thin, slick surface on the bullet. The downside is this method is messy and slow. The modern method is to simply use moly coated bullets. Moly is easy to get and can be applied to bullets by the hundreds in only a few hours. Moly coated bullets are also available direct from the factory. Moly coated bullets were used exclusively in testing for this article and the author has never had a coated bullet stick. The same cannot be said for uncoated bullets. As a side note, cast lead bullets are inherently lubricated and do not need to be coated. One final note on bullets for subsonic loads. Never crimp and don't seat bullets into the lands. Bullets should be seated with lots of jump for safe operation. The most radical modification required for safe subsonic ammunition comes in the case preparation. To take advantage of the magnum primer, the flash-hole should be drilled out to 9/64 inch (3.5mm) for a large-rifle primer. The enlarged flash hole allows as much of the primer flash as possible to reach the powder. This is especially important in full sized rifle cases. It also helps to prevent primer setback due to the low operating pressure of these rounds. DO NOT use subsonic modified cases for full power ammunition! Now that all the components are gathered and properly prepared, we are ready to begin to develop ammunition. Unfortunately this is where things get difficult. There is almost no published subsonic load data anywhere. It is almost unheard of in any load manuals and it is fairly scarce on the Internet. A starting or reference point is needed to work from to avoid operating blind in the dark, which is not a good place to be when dealing with potentially explosive components. CE Harris developed a fairly well known reduced power load known as "The Load." Information on "The Load" can be found fairly easily in an Internet search. To throw the reader a bone, here are the basics. "The Load" can be used in any full sized rifle case without any modifications to the components. It consists of 13 grains of Red Dot (greater than 50 percent load density in .30-06 case) driving a lightweight bullet (125 grain in a .30 caliber) at medium velocity (approximately 1,600 fps). The smart and experienced reloader should be able to extrapolate a safe starting load for heavy bullets from The Load. Keep in mind it is better to start a bit fast and work the velocities down slowly remembering NEVER to go below the 30 percent load density rule (It really should be a Law!)When using a medium to small sized case, it is possible to compare internal volumes with other cases to find suitable starting data. For example the author discovered the .44 Magnum case (with a bullet seated) has almost the same internal volume as the 7.62x39mm case. All sorts of .44 Magnum load data exists for 180 to 220 grain bullets from which safe starting subsonic loads can be extrapolated. Once the first test loads are assembled, it is time to head to the range and see how they work. A chronograph is essential to developing safe subsonic loads. Don't even try it if you don't have access to one. The target velocity to work towards should be 50-100 fps less than the speed of sound or about 950 fps. This puts velocity below the transonic range where the supersonic crack begins to be generated. The sonic crack is not generated at exactly the speed of sound. The sound increases in volume across the transonic range starting about 92-93 percent of the speed of sound based upon research by Al Paulson. Also keep in mind that a sound suppressor (silencer) may create about 30 fps of freebore boost, which in turn argues for lowering projectile velocity an additional 30-50 fps. At about 50 fps above the speed of sound the sonic crack reaches maximum volume. During the initial testing period, it is important to start with a clean and lightly lubed bore to ensure bullets slip down the barrel easily. The bore should be lubed after every 2 or 3 shots to keep it clean and slippery. Velocities will vary somewhat due to the oil in the bore but at this point safety is more important than consistency. Make sure the bullet leaves the bore after every shot. Most of the time it is possible to hear the slow moving bullet hit the target but if need be physically check the bore. A stuck bullet will ruin your barrel and the day. The first range session should be all about finding a safe load that meets the 950 fps requirement. It is certainly possible to go much slower than this but the danger of triggering SEE does not warrant the slight reduction in muzzle signature.

Subsonics are very sensitive to barrel condition and fouling. Velocities can vary considerably depending on how clean the barrel is. Temperature can also have a great effect on subsonic muzzle velocity. Once a safe load or two in the desired velocity range has been found, a second range session can be used to test the effects of reducing the bore lubing frequency as well as the consistency and trajectory of the load. Subsonic loads require the shooter pay attention at all times. A stuck bullet is always possible, with predictable results. Always remember a hangfire or delayed ignition signals impending SEE. To easily distinguish modified cases (and subsonic ammunition) from conventional rounds, use a blue indelible felt marker to color either the case extractor groove or the case head. The blue case head (right) is more traditional and is still used by Lapua for their subsonic ammunition. The author prefers the blue extractor groove (below, right) because it is easier to see when handling ammunition and doesn't rub off as easily. Once you become comfortable loading and shooting subsonic ammunition you will find that they are a lot of fun to shoot. There is hardly any recoil and muzzle signature is reduced to a slight pop. Shooting without hearing protection is comfortable and it is even possible to hear the bullet hit the target with a loud "Thwack!"


Rules for the safe operation of subsonic loads:
1. Drill Flashole to 3.5mm (9/64") to allow all the primer flash to enter the case and ignite the powder completely.
2. Use Magnum Primers for maximum primer flash and better powder ignition.
3. Lube all bullets. Moly is good, animal fat is better.
4. Lubricate the bore regularily while shooting.
5. Never crimp bullets into cases. Never seat bullets "into the lands."
6. Try not to use powder charges of less than 40% load density.
7. If load density is less than 40%, use tamping or fillers to keep the powder at the bottom of the case.
8. Make sure the bullet exits the bore after each shot.
9. Use only the fastest burning pistol powders - N310, N312, Bullseye, Clays, Titewad, HP38, Red Dot.
10. Any sort of slow ignition or hangfire is a warning of iminent Secondary Explosive Effect (SEE).

Always mark subsonic cases so that they are NEVER USED FOR SUPERSONIC PRESSURES.

DPITAtu_zpsdfce52cc.jpg
 
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just stumbled across this thread since im about to try my subs with a suppressor... I handloaded some subs using hornady brass, federal primers (non magnum), 10.5gr of Trail Boss, and hornady 178gr Amax in my 700 with a 1:12 twist shortened to 22". Im shooting .960" groups at 100 yards with no visible key holing. I see a lot of people saying a round like that should not stabilize with a 1:12 but it seems to have worked out great for me.

that being said, im still afraid to try it with my can lol. i dunno if the can will somehow change something and cause keyholing in those 8 critical inches.
 
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I have had very good luck with cast bullets with the small flat pt or round nose. Never stuck a lubed cast lead. A hell of a lot cheaper also.
 
What about adding some filler such as dacron to the cartridge to take up the extra case capacity and keep the powder at the rear of the case against the primer?
 
With the ammo shortage I haven't been able to try out any better subsonic loads. I've been looking for a 180 grain round nose as it seems other people have been having luck with them in a 12 twist barrel.

What I did just find online were speer 180gr spitzer soft point. They look fairly similar to a round nose design. Would those work? http://www.midsouthshooterssupply.com/item.asp?sku=000212053

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2
 
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AR 308 cycled

With the ammo shortage I haven't been able to try out any better subsonic loads. I've been looking for a 180 grain round nose as it seems other people have been having luck with them in a 12 twist barrel.

What I did just find online were speer 180gr spitzer soft point. They look fairly similar to a round nose design. Would those work? 30 Caliber .308 Diameter*180 Grain Hot Cor Spitzer | MidsouthShootersSupply.com

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2
After some experiments, I got an AR 308 to cycle two subsonic rounds. Ejection pattern at 4 to 5 o'clock Did not try full magazine. Will evaluate effect of magazine spring tension and fine tune other stuff later. The combination that worked:

Satern 16 inch button rifled barrel with 8 twist Armalite midlength gas tube Will measure gas port exact location and diameter when I get time

Armalite upper with forward magazine shelves milled to enable DPMS pattern magazine to seat high enough, like Armalite is doing on some of their new rifles

EDM Arms lower receiver which is patterned to fit new model Armalite upper without forward magazine shelves and use DPMS type magazines

JP Rifles light 308 bolt carrier (Armalite bolt too heavy)

Armalite 308 bolt (fits a little looser in carrier than JP Rifle enhanced bolt)

Magpul UBR carbine stock

DPMS buffer with weights removed, approximately 0.85 ounces (normal DPMS carbine buffer weighed about 3.75 ounces) May try adding back a little weight if I have any trouble with buffer being too light.

300 Blackout buffer spring

Royal purple synthetic gun oil on bolt

Knights Armament 10 round magazine with Tubb spring Don't know if I can cycle subsonic with full magazine and more spring force on loaded rounds

Lapua 200 grain subsonic ammo (would not cycle the EBR 180 grain Thumper ammo)
 
With the ammo shortage I haven't been able to try out any better subsonic loads. I've been looking for a 180 grain round nose as it seems other people have been having luck with them in a 12 twist barrel.

What I did just find online were speer 180gr spitzer soft point. They look fairly similar to a round nose design. Would those work? 30 Caliber .308 Diameter*180 Grain Hot Cor Spitzer | MidsouthShootersSupply.com

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2

Adding some additional info about build that cycles subtonics:


Additional info of my post

After some experiments, I got an AR 308 to cycle two subsonic rounds. Ejection pattern at 4 to 5 o'clock Did not try full magazine. Will evaluate effect of magazine spring tension and fine tune other stuff later. The combination that worked:

Satern 16 inch button rifled barrel with 8 twist Armalite midlength gas tube Will measure gas port exact location and diameter when I get time

Armalite upper with forward magazine shelves milled to enable DPMS pattern magazine to seat high enough, like Armalite is doing on some of their new rifles

EDM Arms lower receiver which is patterned to fit new model Armalite upper without forward magazine shelves and use DPMS type magazines

JP Rifles light 308 bolt carrier (Armalite bolt too heavy)

Armalite 308 bolt (fits a little looser in carrier than JP Rifle enhanced bolt)

Magpul UBR carbine stock

DPMS buffer with weights removed, approximately 0.85 ounces (normal DPMS carbine buffer weighed about 3.75 ounces) May try adding back a little weight if I have any trouble with buffer being too light.

300 Blackout buffer spring

Royal purple synthetic gun oil on bolt

Knights Armament 10 round magazine with Tubb spring Don't know if I can cycle subsonic with full magazine and more spring force on loaded rounds

Lapua 200 grain subsonic ammo (would not cycle the EBR 180 grain Thumper ammo)

Armalite single stage trigger with standard trigger and hammer spring

Barrel has Armalite barrel extension (DPMS and Armalite bolts both head spaced at 0.004 longer than 308 Winchester 1.630 GO gage)

Gemtech Sandstorm suppressor
 
There is a lot of good information in here, for your 12tw I would take a look at this load, start a couple tenths over the charge and work down to it and see what happens

150gr SGK or PPSP or other flat based 150gr spire point
9.5gr Trailboss
LC or Fed 308 brass

Loaded to appx 2.65" OAL (keeps the internal capacity lower and seems to cut down on the vertical dispersion due to velocity inconsistencies.

This load will stay inside 6" at 300yd from several different 308's that I've run it through.
 
FWIW, I have killed seven bison with '06 M2 pulldown (150 flat base FMJ) from a Tikka chopped to 16". The bullets hit 36" low from my normal zero at 100 yards. They are milsurp brass, CCI 200 primer and 10 grains of the cute little donuts. I haven't had any vertical stringing due to velocity inconsistency or any pressure signs (yeah, we all know one is all it takes...) or anything that leads me to believe there should be extra caution thrown in. For the record, the shots on tatonka were all within 10 yards.

The factory twist on the 308 T3 is 10, if I recall correctly. At 12, YMMV.
 
i have a remington 700 sps aac with a 20'' barrel.I am shooting 165-168grn bullets with 9.5 grns of trailboss with no issues the group is around an inch.With my 762sdn-6 its 4'' low but i note that in my book. I am seating to 2.750 and it fills the case up plenty. make sure you are deburing the flash hole this helps alot like i said ive never had one key hole i tried a heavier bullet 180grn nosler it key holed so i backed off on bullet weight these are also full length sized casses.
 
While this data was compiled with a 1/10 twist 20" .308 the info may be helpful to some.

ETA: standard large rifle primer with an unmodified primer flash hole.

TrailBossSubsonic_zps1f7e9bbe.png
 
So this is what I ended up at...

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I can bang the very center of an 8" steel plate at 100yds all day with this round down a 1:12 barrel. It hits about 11 inches lower than my supersonic rounds.

I actually shoot these a lot now cause they are so quiet but still make a nice loud ring when they hit the plate.

Need to try it on some varmint.

(By the way that app is called reloading log on the Android Market"

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Why would you have a .338 with a 16inch barrel since a .338 is a long range bullet why restrict the range with a short barrel??
 
Tom8673, the same reasone why would you have a .30 subsonic and not a .22... Because when the maximum speed is set, the only way to increase the kinetic energy is mass... Better bc means less wind drift as well...


Fra iPhone
 
I use Lapua's Subsonic 200 gr bullet and have had very good success. I am using 10.5 gr of trailboss in a Lapua case with a magnum primer non modified flash hole. The rifle has a 16in barrel with 1/10 twist. YMMV