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Trail Boss alternatives for subsonic 30-06

biometrician

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Minuteman
May 3, 2023
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54
Florida
I'm looking to workup a subsonic 30-06 load for 190gr bullets. I just want something super quiet so that I don't have to buy another suppressor host. Trail Boss is the best powder but apparently it has been unobtainable for awhile. What are some good alternatives?
 
Tite Group works with the Sub X 190s .


Starting LoadMaximum LoadAvailability
ManufacturerPowderC.O.L.Grs.Vel. (ft/s)PressureGrs.Vel. (ft/s)Pressure
HodgdonTitegroup





3.180"10.01,07723,500 PSI
 
Have you tested that load? I have a bunch of titegroup, but I'm hesitant to put such a dense and fast burning powder in a large case.
 
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Red Dot is a possibility. It is very fluffy and fast burning, and ignites well even with partial fill. I use it as a Trail Boss replacement in light bullet 300 BLK subsonic loads with excellent results.
 
i've used H4895 for subsonic loads in 308 with 190gr sub-x and 220gr spire point , might be worth a look
 
Any fast burning pistol or shotgun powder will work. I'm a Red dot guy in 308 & 300wm but if it has to be eye socket placement, its 700X. However 700x meters like shit, so I use a lee dipper and trickle up. Even had sub loads for my old 338LM.
When using above load carefully as double charging is easy if you drop your guard.

Unlike high speed where you work up, with subs its best to start high & work down.
 
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One thing you might want to check is will your bullet stabilize in your rifle with probably a 1-10 twist at the speed you want to shoot them at ?
 
One thing you might want to check is will your bullet stabilize in your rifle with probably a 1-10 twist at the speed you want to shoot them at ?
I've got a 1:9 TW. I got it with subs and long monolithic copper bullets in mind. According to the JBM stability calculator the 190 SMK should be stable at 1000fps. I will check for keyholing with suppressor detached first.
 
My 1:10 308 stabilizes 190’s and shoots them good. But, 175RDF’s shoot a bunch better. I did try 200’s down to about 1050 and they stabilized as well out to 100 but shot like dog shit. Sure glad I have enough Trail Boss to not have to worry about this. It’s the cat’s meow for subs for me.
 
Any fast burning pistol or shotgun powder will work. I'm a Red dot guy in 308 & 300wm but if it has to be eye socket placement, its 700X. However 700x meters like shit, so I use a lee dipper and trickle up. Even had sub loads for my old 338LM.
When using above load carefully as double charging is easy if you drop your guard.

Unlike high speed where you work up, with subs its best to start high & work down.
Man I would love to here about this 300 wm loading I am sitting here staring at the press and powders and I have zero clue where to start. My gut says 10.3 tite group with a 190 grain or I want to try .208 grain Because I have too much and I think it would be slick. I need help I don't want to be dumb and I can't find anyone to help. I forgot about this for a second and the freakishly talented loaders over here.
 
Man I would love to here about this 300 wm loading I am sitting here staring at the press and powders and I have zero clue where to start. My gut says 10.3 tite group with a 190 grain or I want to try .208 grain Because I have too much and I think it would be slick. I need help I don't want to be dumb and I can't find anyone to help. I forgot about this for a second and the freakishly talented loaders over here.
I don't shoot jacketed projos in subs do to many factors, the first being inconsistent bearing surface OD. In high speed w/ lots of pressure that is much more forgiving, not so when dealing with much lower pressure. Now that said, if you are using match bullets at short ranges, yes they will work until the stability issue comes calling. You won't get a match projo to 600yds nose on starting at sub speeds.
I shoot a 217gr cast now in everything 30 cal. As the flight data is the same and they all leave X gun at the same speed, 1080fps
In the 300wm's I use to run a 187gr cast, (lyman 311332)Fed 215 primer 7.3 grs of 700X. I have switched to a 200gr Lyman 3142299 for better sealing but don't have that load data handy, but if memory serves its 8.6 of 700X with a Winchester LR kicking it off. I run that same bullet in the 308s now as well and that load is 7.6 of 700X, and WLR primer, both get to 600yds with the same up (93 moa) but in the high speed guns you also have to add the diff between the two zeros, the 308s are approx 12-13 moa depending gun & the 300's are approx 14 moa. Barrel stiffness, length, can weights are all diff, but easy to KIM per stick. Make sure you use a gas checked bullet design, that way you can toggle between cast & jacketed w/o POA/POI issues.

Using fast burning powders you want to be very careful not to double charge, so load carefully & always inspect before bullet seating.
I have just about stopped shooting high speed anything, as subs done properly, scrack that itch. We ran many sub matchs in years past, and some in some really interesting places that highspeed would never happen.

I also load & shoot the same cast projos at high speed as well. While not match grade they still put meat on the table just as well as jacketed projos, you just have to work a little closer is all. HTH
 
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I don't shoot jacketed projos in subs do to many factors, the first being inconsistent bearing surface OD. In high speed w/ lots of pressure that is much more forgiving, not so when dealing with much lower pressure. Now that said, if you are using match bullets at short ranges, yes they will work until the stability issue comes calling. You won't get a match projo to 600yds nose on starting at sub speeds.
I shoot a 217gr cast now in everything 30 cal. As the flight data is the same and they all leave X gun at the same speed, 1080fps
In the 300wm's I use to run a 187gr cast, (lyman 311332)Fed 215 primer 7.3 grs of 700X. I have switched to a 200gr Lyman 3142299 for better sealing but don't have that load data handy, but if memory serves its 8.6 of 700X with a Winchester LR kicking it off. I run that same bullet in the 308s now as well and that load is 7.6 of 700X, and WLR primer, both get to 600yds with the same up (93 moa) but in the high speed guns you also have to add the diff between the two zeros, the 308s are approx 12-13 moa depending gun & the 300's are approx 14 moa. Barrel stiffness, length, can weights are all diff, but easy to KIM per stick. Make sure you use a gas checked bullet design, that way you can toggle between cast & jacketed w/o POA/POI issues.

Using fast burning powders you want to be very careful not to double charge, so load carefully & always inspect before bullet seating.
I have just about stopped shooting high speed anything, as subs done properly, scrack that itch. We ran many sub matchs in years past, and some in some really interesting places that highspeed would never happen.

I also load & shoot the same cast projos at high speed as well. While not match grade they still put meat on the table just as well as jacketed projos, you just have to work a little closer is all. HTH
Do you have issues with keeping your suppressor clean with cast bullets? Or do you just blast it out with some supers on occasion. I've got a fully welded can, so disassembly for cleaning isn't an option.
 
Do you have issues with keeping your suppressor clean with cast bullets? Or do you just blast it out with some supers on occasion. I've got a fully welded can, so disassembly for cleaning isn't an option.
I use whats called the dip, to clean every 2 years or so, but I shoot subs as a norm, only do about 2-400 highspeed a year, but subs maybe 4-5K. Then again I always use gas checks on all cast bullets I throw so its not like the 1800, early 1900s lead issues. The Brinnell hardness on the subs is around 17 & those I shoot at high speed is 36+.

The dip is 50% Vinegar & 50% hydrogen peroxide, when it quits smoking & bubbling dump it & keep doing it until when you pore in you get no reaction. Plug the exit end and fill then shake, then complete filling and let set until it quits smoking/bubbling. It does not cause issues with my cans, but I have no clue about the metals in you cans.

CAUTION, this mix is DANGEROUS, AS IT TURNS INTO LEAD ACETATE, THEREFORE IT MUST BE DISPOSED OF PROPERLY,...NOT IF AN"S OR BUT'S, PERIOD.
Make SURE to wear gloves, & respirator when using.
 
Not an expert in casting but if you use hi-tek coating then you don't have to gas check correct?
 
Not an expert in casting but if you use hi-tek coating then you don't have to gas check correct?
That I don't know. My grandfather started me casting .222 projos in the late 50s, and I've just expounded on them but not to the point of any type of coating. Now that said, with such small pressures involved to run a sub, any minor issues with a barrel, or bullet bearing surface change, bullet to bullet, will yield high to very high SD/ES numbers. Many guys have to jump thru hoops to get single digit numbers, and those are required as you start reaching longer w/a sub.
 
Not an expert in casting but if you use hi-tek coating then you don't have to gas check correct?
All the hi-tek bullets I use have no GC . No GC may come into play with variations in hardness and speed also . I shoot lubed bevel base bullets in my M1, bullets are hard and speeds are low so no GC need with them. I also shoot cast in 308s and 30-06s at higher speeds so, those bullets require a gas check.I am not an expert, I buy my bullets and still have a lot to learn .
 
I use whats called the dip, to clean every 2 years or so, but I shoot subs as a norm, only do about 2-400 highspeed a year, but subs maybe 4-5K. Then again I always use gas checks on all cast bullets I throw so its not like the 1800, early 1900s lead issues. The Brinnell hardness on the subs is around 17 & those I shoot at high speed is 36+.

The dip is 50% Vinegar & 50% hydrogen peroxide, when it quits smoking & bubbling dump it & keep doing it until when you pore in you get no reaction. Plug the exit end and fill then shake, then complete filling and let set until it quits smoking/bubbling. It does not cause issues with my cans, but I have no clue about the metals in you cans.

CAUTION, this mix is DANGEROUS, AS IT TURNS INTO LEAD ACETATE, THEREFORE IT MUST BE DISPOSED OF PROPERLY,...NOT IF AN"S OR BUT'S, PERIOD.
Make SURE to wear gloves, & respirator when using.

CAUTION, this mix is DANGEROUS, AS IT TURNS INTO LEAD ACETATE, THEREFORE IT MUST BE DISPOSED OF PROPERLY,...NOT IF AN"S OR BUT'S, PERIOD.
Make SURE to wear gloves, & respirator when using.

This bears repeating. And proper disposal is not dumping it down the drain. That shit needs to be properly sealed and dropped off at a HAZMAT waste center.
 
CAUTION, this mix is DANGEROUS, AS IT TURNS INTO LEAD ACETATE, THEREFORE IT MUST BE DISPOSED OF PROPERLY,...NOT IF AN"S OR BUT'S, PERIOD.
Make SURE to wear gloves, & respirator when using.

This bears repeating. And proper disposal is not dumping it down the drain. That shit needs to be properly sealed and dropped off at a HAZMAT waste center.
don't fuck with "the dip" unless you have a decent level of general chemistry knowledge and know your PPE reactivity charts.

the hazards and disposal are discussed in this thread: https://www.snipershide.com/shooting/threads/disposing-of-the-dip-solution.6941815/#post-10271531

TL;DR get a better cleaner that isn't potentially lethal.