Med student needs some help finding some credible gun/crime stats.

[JWV]

I wasn't sure where to post this, I am not trying to be political, I just need some good credible info firearm crime, stats, etc. I was tipped off today that we have a biased small group meeting that my medical school is subjecting us to. My girlfriend had her meeting today and said that the stats they brought in were incredibly biased so I figured I would come in with some good information as well to try to bring some balance to the conversation. I am already checking the CDC and NRA website for info. Thanks guys! And if this is considered political/borderline I will gladly delete this thread.

Justin

 

[thrusty]

Ever hear of the FBI crime statics?

FBI ? Table 20

 

[JWV]

I was trying to get those off of the NRA website but it says they are unavailable. I think I may have gotten them now though.

 

[thrusty]

I posted the link above to table 20.

 

[thrusty]

You'll find that knives, "other weapons", fists, hands feet (blunt objects) typically outnumber rifles (AKA "assault rifles").

 

[thrusty]

Very useful table to illustrate that the number of murders have been going down each year (while gun ownership has gone up).
FBI ? Expanded Homicide Data Table 8

 

[thrusty]

2012 Data
FBI ? Table 20
http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/uc...able_8_murder_victims_by_weapon_2008-2012.xls

 

[Rhyno]

Harvard also recently released a study, might try Googling that.

 

[thrusty]

lol @ Harvard....
Harvard School of Public Health » Harvard Injury Control Research Center » Gun Ownership
I'd say they are wrong on this one....as gun ownership has sky-rocketed, but homicides have decreased over the years: Harvard School of Public Health » Harvard Injury Control Research Center » Homicide

 

[AK264]

I wasn't sure where to post this, I am not trying to be political, I just need some good credible info firearm crime, stats, etc. I was tipped off today that we have a biased small group meeting that my medical school is subjecting us to. My girlfriend had her meeting today and said that the stats they brought in were incredibly biased so I figured I would come in with some good information as well to try to bring some balance to the conversation. I am already checking the CDC and NRA website for info. Thanks guys! And if this is considered political/borderline I will gladly delete this thread.

Justin

I think what you are trying to do is admirable but I think if you screw with their manipulated agenda it will have repercussions with your academic career. You mentioned "small group" so presenting accurate statistics will not have that big of a effect. My advise keep your trap shut finish school and get to the buying power associated with your chosen career, then you can make a real difference in making sure accurate statistics are known. If you have friends in the small group by all means present the FBI stats. Believe me your dilemma strikes a chord with me. Statistics are a very powerful tool in science that I respect greatly, to willfully distort them for ones own motives is despicable. You however need to look after your interests and the greater interests of the community in this matter. Dont be taunted into a fight where the odds are stacked against you.

 

[Cartman]

Contact this guy and/or get his book:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Lott,_Jr.

More Guns, Less Crime: Understanding Crime and Gun Control Laws, Third Edition (Studies in Law and Economics): John R. Lott Jr.: 9780226493664: Amazon.com: Books

And the latest FBI numbers say that more people are clubbed to death every year than murdered with a rifle -- any rifle, including assault rifles. So ask those folks if they're all for banning baseball bats -- you know, if it would save just one life and all that.

 

[xdpatriot]

I think what you are trying to do is admirable but I think if you screw with their manipulated agenda it will have repercussions with your academic career. You mentioned "small group" so presenting accurate statistics will not have that big of a effect. My advise keep your trap shut finish school and get to the buying power associated with your chosen career, then you can make a real difference in making sure accurate statistics are known. If you have friends in the small group by all means present the FBI stats. Believe me your dilemma strikes a chord with me. Statistics are a very powerful tool in science that I respect greatly, to willfully distort them for ones own motives is despicable. You however need to look after your interests and the greater interests of the community in this matter. Dont be taunted into a fight where the odds are stacked against you.

This ^^^^^^^
Is excellent advice.

 

[Cartman]

I just read the posts suggesting to keep your trap shut. Yes, that's probably the best thing to do. Think of losing a battle but staying focused on winning the war. You'll have better luck changing things from inside the group than from without anyway.

 

[JWV]

I think what you are trying to do is admirable but I think if you screw with their manipulated agenda it will have repercussions with your academic career. You mentioned "small group" so presenting accurate statistics will not have that big of a effect. My advise keep your trap shut finish school and get to the buying power associated with your chosen career, then you can make a real difference in making sure accurate statistics are known. If you have friends in the small group by all means present the FBI stats. Believe me your dilemma strikes a chord with me. Statistics are a very powerful tool in science that I respect greatly, to willfully distort them for ones own motives is despicable. You however need to look after your interests and the greater interests of the community in this matter. Dont be taunted into a fight where the odds are stacked against you.

This is probably a good idea. The meeting is suppose to be an open forum where each of us (7 other students) gets to discuss various things related to firearms. We are encouraged to have an opinion and voice it. We have been told they are "safe places" and nothing will leave the room. I don't intend on starting an argument with the preceptor but I plan on saying that I am a firearm enthusiast and why I think they are beneficial is all. I am definitely going to be careful to not be belligerent/standoffish. Thanks for all of the suggestions and links guys.

 

[Switchblade]

We used the FBI data a while back and completey slew the debate for further gun control initiative letters from APSU. Like, we buried the opposition. They got tired of hearing,"Slippery Slope Propaganda, invalid and unsound premise!","Red Herring Propaganda, unsound and invalid premise!". When 'our' side began with straight FBI Crime stats, they were quiet, and when our side continued to use straight truth and unbiased reports, it was amazing. Many came up and ASKED for further education so they too could bring themselves out of the fog of ignornace. The few supporters of gun control, after that debate, could only look ignorant. I do remember looking at the guy in the group and asking,"Are you ineducable, or have you actually learned anything tonight?" His reply was,"Uh...I'm not ineducatable, I can learn!" "But did you learn anything about the propaganda use of those who support gun control?"
"Hey man, our facts are good!"
"Ah, so you ARE ineducable, and you want to remain ignorant? My friend, that is STUPID" My friend, Ali came over laughing, and said,"James, stop teasing the ignorant gun control people" I had to walk away laughing. Gun Control supporters , if they ARE ineducable, are just plain STUPID!

 

[JWV]

AK264,

I just read your post about another 3 times. Really thanks for the advice.

 

[xdpatriot]

You're almost never going to get anywhere when someone is thinking with their heart and not their mind. It doesn't matter if it's love, guns, whatever. When people are acting on what makes them feel good instead of what makes sense, you can't win. Good luck with the meeting and your career.

 

[Switchblade]

It's a small group thing. If IGNORANCE is given out, WE, whether we be student, worker, man on the streets, have a duty as firearms enthusiasts to EDUCATE this ignorance when we are confronted with it. It is the, oh no, it might cost my job, or oh no, it will hurt me crowd who needs to rethink their position as firearms owners. If you hold the ability to speak rationally, and convincingly with your statistics and truth, you are only supporting their causes with your silence when confronted with their ignorance.
When we educate this ignorance away, one individual at a time, that individual educates another. Those two individuals educate four more. It spreads exponentially through the communication networks. Why does it work? people do not like being inferred as ignorant, and will allow themselves to be educated when the proper wording is given to them to allow it to happen.
Any further acceptance to allowing this ignorance after this education has been so strongly provided, would infer that you are either ineducable through reason of denial, or misunderstanding, or just plain stupid.

Remember, this education that you provide to the ignorant usually goes hand in hand with an invitation to go shoot. The ones who go shoot for the first time are priceless. They exhuberantly talk about it for weeks after, and further the education of the ignorant.

 

[xs hedspace]

You might throw out the thought that if Motor Vehicle laws should be written by people who own/drive autos, why are gun laws written by people who don't own firearms?

 

[Victor N TN]

Back about 3 years ago Myself and 6 other people took on our local city council and the Mayor. The mayor at that time was such a whiny brat of a school teacher. (Nothing against school teachers. Our youngest daughter is a teacher his age. She carries a Glock.) But by using FBI and CDC reports and stats we did get the mayors bill shut down. He lost his next re-election bid not much time after this.

 

[Cartman]

It's a small group thing. If IGNORANCE is given out, WE, whether we be student, worker, man on the streets, have a duty as firearms enthusiasts to EDUCATE this ignorance when we are confronted with it. It is the, oh no, it might cost my job, or oh no, it will hurt me crowd who needs to rethink their position as firearms owners. If you hold the ability to speak rationally, and convincingly with your statistics and truth, you are only supporting their causes with your silence when confronted with their ignorance.
When we educate this ignorance away, one individual at a time, that individual educates another. Those two individuals educate four more. It spreads exponentially through the communication networks. Why does it work? people do not like being inferred as ignorant, and will allow themselves to be educated when the proper wording is given to them to allow it to happen.
Any further acceptance to allowing this ignorance after this education has been so strongly provided, would infer that you are either ineducable through reason of denial, or misunderstanding, or just plain stupid.

Remember, this education that you provide to the ignorant usually goes hand in hand with an invitation to go shoot. The ones who go shoot for the first time are priceless. They exhuberantly talk about it for weeks after, and further the education of the ignorant.

Switch, that sounds good -- truly bro. But arguing with these people is like arguing with a hippie. They don't care about facts. At all. Okay, some do. But when they don't they are like religious fanatics and it is probably better to preserve your livelihood than argue with someone that no dose of facts or reality can cure. So make sure you know who you're dealing with first. Unless you can afford to lose what they hold over you.