Getting close to bolt action purchase. Need help plz! 260, 6.5, .308??? Type of rifle?

[elfster1234]

Ok, I'm getting close to making a bolt action purchase. Total bench paper punching rifle & slappin steel. No hunting. max 600yards unless I get lucky with a 1000yard range somehow in my neck of the woods = most unlikely. Totally geared around bug hole shooting in paper.

I think I have the rifle zero'd down to a savage 12LRP in either 260 or 6.5 creed. I reload, so get the 260 right? or not? Savage Arms

Another part of me tells me to stick with .308... especially being that I already have tons of .308 brass & the dies. Also, the life of the .308 barrel brings me back to this caliber. I want this bolt action to last hopefully more than 10k rounds without changing the barrel out. Something like this savage 10 FCP McMillan: Savage Arms

Then again, another part is telling me to just get something like a FN SPR....

It is all driving me nuts! LOL

 

[long range newbie]

I got a 260 it shoots great but remember you can make 260 brass from you 308 brass if you need to. 308 win would be good, but for a bench gun usually means for a "different caliber" such as a 6.5. If you get a fn then your set, you have a mag system, mcm stock, and pretty dang good accuracy. My sporting goods store has a bushmaster custom shop 308 with a hs stock, microslick coating on bolt, custom barrel, trued, badger bolt knob, new lug, new trigger but it doesn't have a dbm. it is 2200, but it was for sale at 1800 still they haven't sold it for about a year and a half. Seems like a nice setup but not very famous. just think if you need the 6.5 or the 308.

 

[elfster1234]

top spending limit would be this.... what do you think?

FN Herstal SPR A1 308 Win Rifle DBM 24" McMillian Stock

I got a 260 it shoots great but remember you can make 260 brass from you 308 brass if you need to. 308 win would be good, but for a bench gun usually means for a "different caliber" such as a 6.5. If you get a fn then your set, you have a mag system, mcm stock, and pretty dang good accuracy. My sporting goods store has a bushmaster custom shop 308 with a hs stock, microslick coating on bolt, custom barrel, trued, badger bolt knob, new lug, new trigger but it doesn't have a dbm. it is 2200, but it was for sale at 1800 still they haven't sold it for about a year and a half. Seems like a nice setup but not very famous. just think if you need the 6.5 or the 308.

 

[Redmanss]

With the Savage/FN choices I'm assuming you're trying to do this on more of a budget, but you still want quality. If I were you I would order up a heavy barreled R700/Bartlein action from GAP ($1395), set it into your chassis of choice (~$750), and call it a day. You may get longer barrel life from a .308 than a 6.5/.260 flavor, but that comes at a lower BC and additional recoil cost. You want to shoot bugholes at distance, right? I feel the .260 is the perfect balance of barrel life/economy and downrange performance.

And yeah, you're a reloader so definitely .260 simply for the brass.

http://www.snipershide.com/shooting...t-lead-times-9-4-13-update-2.html#post2658175

 

[long range newbie]

I think if its going to be a problem switching from 308-6.5 then get a 308. but rifle wise its a hard choice, go to a sporting goods store hold one (if you can) and if you can shoot one, then make the choice. Sometimes shooting the rifle may make you want a rifle you don't need though (Ashbury precision rifle) If you get the 308 your set, but the savage you need a different stock. I like the savage because it comes with a nice trigger, and they are known for accuracy out of the box. I don't know what else to say other than you might get a little more accurate rifle from savage.

 

[long range newbie]

I agree with this too.

 

[BoilerUP]

For 600yd max you don't "need" a 6.5, and given that you're already set up for 308 that is an attractive option where you can get a good way towards 6.5 performance at that range with a Berger Hybrid.

That said, the price of a 6.5's performance is barrel life...but barrels are consumable items just like powder, primers, brass and the gasoline you use to drive to and from the range.

A replacement Criterion barrel for a Savage costs $300, and you can do it yourself at home in 15 minutes with less than $100 in tools. Given how expensive this shooting thing is, that's closest to "cheap" you are going to find.

 

[jbell]

Elf, here are some of my thoughts on this. The Savage is a very good rifle capable of good to sometimes great accuracy. However if you have spent any time with a trued up 700 or especially a custom action the Savage feels kinda clunky to me. Now that being said they don't have any issues with accuracy or reliability due to the way they feel. I have owned many Savages over the years and have never been "disappointed" but have at the same time have felt let down. I also have never been able to get crazy accuracy out of any Savage, 1/2 MOA is about all I have ever been able to squeeze out of one (with a sample rate of 5 or so all the highest end target action or varmint series bought new). You mentioned the FN rifles and they seem to be nice but for the money I think you would be better served doing what Redmanss said with the custom barreled action and dropping it into a chassis. If you did go that route where you are into the gassers so much you should get a Mcree. They are one of the best chassis I have seen. Scotts bedding on these are spot on and give very good accuracy and repeatability in a folder platform with an AR pistol grip. Not to mention that Scott is truly top shelf!

You also mentioned the 308 route. I happen to love that caliber as many do but to expect or even to hope to get 10K of accurate barrel life is a bit of a myth. Yes you could probably squeeze that many out and still be able to get around 1moa if you start with a real good shooter to begin with. But if you are expecting cutting edge accuracy then your round count would be more in the neighbor hood of 5-6 K (ballpark). I actually had one that died at 4500 this year and I was not running it hot.

One more rifle for you to think about and if it were me I would look at is a Tikka T3 Varmint. They are the sleepers IMO for the money.

 

[bm11]

TRG-22 on sale and be done with it. By the time you start messing with a domestic rifle, you'll be into it for more than the TRG, and in my humble opinion, it is the better rifle.

I have never seen one that doesn't shoot lights out, and you don't need to buy anything for it to "make it beter" out of the box. You won't need to ship it back and forth between you and a smith that can't seem to make it 100% right, because the TRG is 100% right out of the box. And if you get tired of it, sell it, because it isn't a cobbled together custom, it's resale is higher.

I think if you are stuck at 600y, just get a .308. I have both at the .260 really shines at distance, but with .308 you never have the little nagging voice at the back of your head nagging (barrel life.)

 

[Dacam]

Elf,
As far as the FN SPR A1, I would look at something else instead. Ive owned an FN SPR A5, which is slightly better than the A1 and I could not get this rifle
to shoot well. I probably used up around 3 lbs of Varget and still could not get this rifle to shoot consistantly under 1moa. I got so disgusted with it, I said
what the hell and sold it and bought a AIAE MKIII. The AI may not be in most peoples budget but It is surely money well spent as right out the box it shoots
sub moa with 175g FGMM and sub 1/2 moa with 175g on top of 43g Varget and Lapua brass.
Good luck with your search!

 

[elfster1234]

this is good information gang, keep it coming.... I just might need to bite the bullet and get something more expensive. As you all know me, I love finding those "sleeper" AR's like rock rivers that perform massively well, but are really inexpensive..... hmmmm, something to really put some thought into. Trust me, I've been checking out both the TRG and AI's.... They are both soooooo awesome, and would love to have either one. I might just need to kill my wallet on the day of purchase. I guess it's time to put the red light out on the front porch again. Women, send your PM's my way. I'm a cheap date.

I'll do just about anything for a black rifle
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3T1c7GkzRQQ

 

[Quarter Horse]

I'd look at the A1 again. I admit to being a Mod. 70 fanboy but I believe this action has features that put it well ahead of others. The comparison of 70 to 700 has been examined to exhaustion and a search will find such discussions here. There are lots of guys here with vastly more experience with different manufacturers of precision rifles but if you read SPR threads you will find most owners love them.

I don't question that DACAM had the problems he cites but that is not the norm. The norm is that the SPRs will shoot under an inch with factory ammo as guaranteed by FN. The A3g is guaranteed under 1/2" and the only functional difference is that this model is bedded. The A1 comes with a quality stock, a great trigger, a 20 MOA rail and a DBM. The mag is kind of a pain in the ass but perfectly serviceable. The barrel is chrome lined with a long service life. You take it out of the box, clean it and go shoot.

SPRs show up regularly in the for sale section and are often a great buy.

Now for anecdotal evidence. My rifle is pre A, one of the originals from the old Win. plant in New Haven Conn. It is capable of 1/2" with 168 FGMM and about in the 6s with SW Ammo 175s in Lapua cases. Load development was a cinch with 1/2" Varget loads using both 168 and 175 SMKs. The worst thing about mine is that it's boring.

 

[JRM83]

There aren't that many people with hands on time with one, but I would throw my .02 for an SSG 3000. For $1500 there are a LOT of desirable features on this rifle - integral rail, 60 degree bolt throw, integrated DBM, quick change barrels, serviceable stock (with adjustable cheek/LOP, flush cups, studs), and excellent accuracy. The factory 2-stage trigger on them feels nearly identical to Geissele SD-E, so if you have any experience with one it will feel right at home. The magazines have a ton of space in them, so if you decided to switch calibers being able to run a long bullet isn't an issue. If the stock doesn't suit your fancy McMillan produces a version of the A-3 for it as well.

 

[jbell]

There aren't that many people with hands on time with one, but I would throw my .02 for an SSG 3000. For $1500 there are a LOT of desirable features on this rifle - integral rail, 60 degree bolt throw, integrated DBM, quick change barrels, serviceable stock (with adjustable cheek/LOP, flush cups, studs), and excellent accuracy. The factory 2-stage trigger on them feels nearly identical to Geissele SD-E, so if you have any experience with one it will feel right at home. The magazines have a ton of space in them, so if you decided to switch calibers being able to run a long bullet isn't an issue. If the stock doesn't suit your fancy McMillan produces a version of the A-3 for it as well.

Elf, this is very good advice. As far as I can tell (and am 90% sure of this) the "new" SSG3000 barreled action and trigger is the same as the old one. The old ones are the same barreled action and trigger as my Sauer 200TR. I would put that rifle up with any other and I have owned GAP built 591's, TRG's, AIAW's, SSG69's, custom 700's ect, ect... Give them a long hard look!! Hell I am looking for an older one in the Mcmillan right now just to have. They are that bad ass!

 

[elfster1234]

you two are right... this rifle actually looks more on par with what I want... I will take a look at it & will take the red light down from my front porch now.

are you talking about the ssg 3000 24" patrol rifle? BTW, what do you mean old vs new ssg 3000?

There aren't that many people with hands on time with one, but I would throw my .02 for an SSG 3000. For $1500 there are a LOT of desirable features on this rifle - integral rail, 60 degree bolt throw, integrated DBM, quick change barrels, serviceable stock (with adjustable cheek/LOP, flush cups, studs), and excellent accuracy. The factory 2-stage trigger on them feels nearly identical to Geissele SD-E, so if you have any experience with one it will feel right at home. The magazines have a ton of space in them, so if you decided to switch calibers being able to run a long bullet isn't an issue. If the stock doesn't suit your fancy McMillan produces a version of the A-3 for it as well.

Elf, this is very good advice. As far as I can tell (and am 90% sure of this) the "new" SSG3000 barreled action and trigger is the same as the old one. The old ones are the same barreled action and trigger as my Sauer 200TR. I would put that rifle up with any other and I have owned GAP built 591's, TRG's, AIAW's, SSG69's, custom 700's ect, ect... Give them a long hard look!! Hell I am looking for an older one in the Mcmillan right now just to have. They are that bad ass!

 

[Adam B]

the old ssg came with a McMillan stock (althought I never owned one), the new ones come with some POS looking stock

 

[jbell]

Yes Adam is correct. And I have some inside info that Sig is looking at a new stock in the future for this rifle. You can still get the Mcmillan stock for these rifles from Mcmillan if you want to upgrade. Sig also has a good looking chassis for these rifles as well.

 

[Adam B]

Did they release that chassis to the public? If so that is a SOLID winner! I held that at SHOT a few years ago and thought it was such a shame that they would never release it.

 

[spoon063]

Wait until I decide to sell my .260 before making your decision

 

[elfster1234]

that sounds really good and ill keep an eye out for it... i know this sounds crazy, but i want an out of the box, don't need to screw with it, bolt action that can at least produce under .75moa on average.... after years of shooting AR's, you guys better hope i never get a bolt action!! JK

Yes Adam is correct. And I have some inside info that Sig is looking at a new stock in the future for this rifle. You can still get the Mcmillan stock for these rifles from Mcmillan if you want to upgrade. Sig also has a good looking chassis for these rifles as well.

 

[19Scout77]

Uh oh, looks like jgorski's Tactical Benchrest title might be in jeopardy...

 

[elfster1234]

is this the jacked up stock you're talking about?

SSG 3000 24" Patrol

Yes Adam is correct. And I have some inside info that Sig is looking at a new stock in the future for this rifle. You can still get the Mcmillan stock for these rifles from Mcmillan if you want to upgrade. Sig also has a good looking chassis for these rifles as well.

 

[PowerstrokeOBX]

If I was budget minded and I were you I would get a single shot target savage action. Then pickup a prefit barrel in 6BR.

 

[elfster1234]

I really do appreciate the input, but I would prefer a detach box mag... I have wayyyyy too much AR fan boy in my blood.

If I was budget minded and I were you I would get a single shot target savage action. Then pickup a prefit barrel in 6BR.

 

[JRM83]

I pulled mine out of the box, ran a patch down the barrel and mopped the chamber, pulled the cheek piece up, and shot it. Counting the 1 shot of 5 that I pulled in each group (curse of the 5 shot group) it was shooting .80 MOA. Discount my 1 pulled shot per group and it shoots a solid .5 moa. The number of groups I have shot with this thing that have 4 rounds stacked on each other and the 5th sitting a little ways away is almost hilarious.

Yes, that is the stock. The stock isn't great, but it's not totally worthless like the stock off a factory 700 SPS. It is still fully adjustable, has a butthook, rides a bag well, and has lots of sling attachment points.

that sounds really good and ill keep an eye out for it... i know this sounds crazy, but i want an out of the box, don't need to screw with it, bolt action that can at least produce under .75moa on average.... after years of shooting AR's, you guys better hope i never get a bolt action!! JK

 

[freeflight]

Yes Adam is correct. And I have some inside info that Sig is looking at a new stock in the future for this rifle. You can still get the Mcmillan stock for these rifles from Mcmillan if you want to upgrade. Sig also has a good looking chassis for these rifles as well.

Can you elaborate more on the new stock? I am considering SSG3000 at the moment. But if a new stock is coming, I will wait.

 

[Kirk111]

Elfster:

I am quite new but had been doing a ton of research into my new rifle purchase. I considered everything from the SSG 3000, a remington, savage, you name it. I wanted a rifle that I didn't need to modify and already had most of the features I wanted. A heavy barrel, a great adjustable sock, a good trigger, great action, and first and foremost great accuracy.

Which is why I went with the Tikka Sporter. A lot like the TRG, but about $1400. It fit all those criteria. I also wanted a rifle that I could use for hunting, which is why I ruled out the SSG 3000 at 12lbs. The Sporter is 9.7lbs if you get the 24" barrel, and 9lbs in the 20" barrel. For me it was the best of everything. I really wanted one in 260, but since I don't reload at the moment, the 308 made more sense. Something to think about. BTW, they have a Tikka Sporter in 260 (24" barrel) at Able's Ammo in Huntsville, Texas. Hard to find that one.

 

[redneckbmxer24]

i know this sounds crazy, but i want an out of the box, don't need to screw with it, bolt action that can at least produce under .75moa on average....

I really do appreciate the input, but I would prefer a detach box mag...

AI AE MKIII. Enough said. Detachable mag, will shoot well under .75MOA, needs no upgrades, and if you want to change calibers down the road it's even easier than a savage.

 

[Shanerbanner10]

Have you considered .223? It will definitely do the job and do it well. I would think if paper punching was your main goal why not make it a bit more of a challenge and punch paper with some that may be affected by the wind a bit more than the calibers mentioned above. It would almost be like a trainer for the 'bigger' calibers.

I'll be honest I don't know much about the caliber but I do know there are quite a few guys out there that would attest that it can shoot further than 600 effectively.

 

[elfster1234]

any more info on this stock?

Yes Adam is correct. And I have some inside info that Sig is looking at a new stock in the future for this rifle. You can still get the Mcmillan stock for these rifles from Mcmillan if you want to upgrade. Sig also has a good looking chassis for these rifles as well.

 

[jbell]

I haven't spoke with that person in a bit now. But Ill do some digging and if I turn anything up Ill let you know Elf.

 

[JRM83]

I spoke with a fellow from SIG customer service last week and he told me there were no other stocks available for the ssg 3000 and they had no plans to work up a new one in the near future. I don't remember what he said the chassis was for offhand, but I believe it was the Blaser.

 

[elfster1234]

well.... I just sold one of my AR's so I have some cash burning a hole in my pocket!!!

this whole 260 vs 6.5 creed debate is driving me absolutely nuts... I get my mind set on 260, then someone will tell me, "no no no, get 6.5creed".... then I get on that band wagon for a little bit until the next person tells me, "no no no, get a .260"!!! its driving me nuts. I guess the way I look at it is i reload so .260 is what i'm thinking... and then i went to my local dealer where I usually pick up my bullets for reloading and they have very little to no .264 bullets... no brass either. If I do purchase a 260 bolt action im rather sure all of my reloading bullets and brass will need to be online which pushes me back to .308 with the longer barrel life

I keep falling back to my original plan of a savage LRP in .260. I was able to find one for $950 or $1003 out the door. Was thinking about slappin a vortex 6-24 ffp pst on it with some seekins rings & 6-9 harris. Can the savage LRP take a longer detach box mag? I know a lot when I comes to AR's, and I know jack $hit when it comes to bolt actions.

I haven't spoke with that person in a bit now. But Ill do some digging and if I turn anything up Ill let you know Elf.

 

[elfster1234]

I also have a savage 10fcp le 308 w/McMillian stock available also for $1160 but I think I only has an internal box mag

savage 10 fcp 308 with camo stock & detach box mag & threaded barrel end for $976 also

 

[6.5BR]

600 yds? 6BR

They even go to 1k with them.

 

[steve123]

I also have a savage 10fcp le 308 w/McMillian stock available also for $1160 but I think I only has an internal box mag

savage 10 fcp 308 with camo stock & detach box mag & threaded barrel end for $976 also

Have patience, save more $ if need be, and get a quality rifle!!!!!!!!! Do it right the first time, which saves money long term! There's much to be said for pride of ownership too. Which rifle are you going to feel good about when grabbing it out of the safe? That's the one you should purchase!

This year I bought some rifles and scopes I'd only dreamed about before. Doing so was a huge sacrifice because I'm not rich. You know what, I'd do it all over again. Those rifles are beyond awesome and same with the S&B!

If necessary buy used!

Oh, and get something different than a 308 this time. 7-08 will get good barrel life and won't blow in the wind as much. BTW, you can always slow a 260 down and get better barrel life.

 

[Vio515]

Remington 700 5R Milspec. Comes with a good stock. All it really needs from the factory is a better trigger.

These cheek pieces haev been showing up a lot at the range I go to and I think are a great value.
Karsten?s Custom Camo

Good luck with the rifle purchase.

 

[lapua31]

The stock on that Sig is appalling!!!

 

[Win.308]

I like my FN a lot. It shoots really well, I shot in a match at Ft Polk a few years ago at 500yds and scored 600/600 with 33xs on a f class target. Barrel life shouldnt be a problem and I have confidence in it every time I pull the trigger I've never measured my groups at 100yds with it but they are tight and consistent

Sent from my DROID RAZR HD using Tapatalk 2

 

[elfster1234]

Ok,,, so i sold another ar to help fund my bolt action... I would really like to get a ssg 3000 but the new stock is killing me... What the hell are they thinking with this new stock!

Anyway.... Still up in the air on this... Is it just me or is it harder to buy a bolt action than an ar... I would think it would be the other way around.

 

[elfster1234]

The crappy ssg 3000 stock brings me back to fn

Has anyone shot the savage LRP?

 

[Nuke Man]

I recently purchased my first bolt gun also. After all the reviews around here on the Tikka 's I picked one up. It shoots damn good and the action is really nice! It truly is a "sleeper"! I got the T3 lite stainless in 300wm.

 

[Ultraman550]

You're driving yourself nuts. Forget about a Savage and either buy a trued 700, FN, TRG22 or a custom action. A Savage you're going to want to change things on it, true the receiver, change the barrel, change the stock (which stocks are very limited for Savages). A stock 700 you're going to want to have trued up because you'll be thinking the entire time "I wonder how much different the gun will shoot if I have it trued". By the time you're done you will have spent in shipping and smithing services what you would have paid to just buy something incredible the first time. Plus along the road you'll probably lose interest in the Savage or stock 700 because you want something better and then you'll be doing this whole brain fuck again. Buy a used custom .308 since you have the reloading part and see if you want to keep it. If not sell it and buy a used custom .260. All of these rifles I see on here that are built by these smiths really hold their value. If you have the cash to burn buy something new.

 

[6brshooter]

Well a savage doesn't need to be trued like a 700 to perform. As far as stocks for a savage:manners mcm,pdc,aics,mcree,hs, xlr,b&c. Yep no stocks for a savage,lol. I have a 6.5cm lrp, it shot fantastic. Replaced the hs with an aics and now wears a brux in a more reasonable contour. Factory barrel shot in the .4s with handloads and was pretty quick. 140 amax@2830 with 42.0 gr h4350. I have a 260 and 6.5 cm, when the 260 barrel goes south it will be a 6.5cm. More stable case design with long nk and 30* shoulders. Never gets donuts, can't say that about my 260 nosler brass. Hornady cases will go 8-10 cycles. Oal of loaded rds that fit in ai mags is better for the cm, unless the 260 freebore is designed for an ai mag. I also really like that none of the bearing surface of the bullet is below the nk/shoulder in a cm.

 

[Harvey]

Whatever you do elf, take your time. Surf the auction sites and you'll find dozens of R700,s tricked out just the way you want it ... on the cheap. If a 700 isn't your thing, you'll find the one you want that someone else dumped a lot of money in, now just for you.

 

[Graham]

There are some good rifles in the for sale section now, and cheap by the standards of a few years ago. These days I would not over pay for a junk factory rifle when there are so many good deals available.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - now Free

 

[lash]

There are some good rifles in the for sale section now, and cheap by the standards of a few years ago. These days I would not over pay for a junk factory rifle when there are so many good deals available.
...[/URL]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^
I'm still newbie-ish and am just getting ready to pick up my first precision bolt today. I got it here on the hide, with just a few hundred down the tube, from a solid member here who shoots competition and had targets to show the bug-hole capability of this Stiller action-ed .260. In addition to getting a custom rifle just like I was wanting for a less than new custom price, I made a new long-distance friend in the shooting community who is invited to come shoot at the range where I'm a member anytime he makes it to Central Florida. Plus, I already know this rifle's favorite load. Needless to say, I am glad I made this choice and can hardly wait to get my grubby paws on it this evening.

 

[adamwade]

If I was going to go cheaper than a TRG, then I would also probably try the SSG3000 (I used to think Tika). What a deal! for $1600 or so. Also (from what I've read) the 10k round barrel life of .308 is more applicable to the cold hammer forged "Euro" brands - not a custom cut barrel maker. The .260 vs 6.5 cm maybe the .260 has longer barrel life? (again, only from what I've read).

And don't go cheap on the glass! go used as someone mentioned if need be.

 

[shovelstrokeed]

After about 4 months of trying to make a bug hole gun out of a REPR with limited success, I decided to go bolt gun. What to get?
Original thinking was a factory gun in 308-260-6.5 or 6. TRG-AIAE came out on top. Budget was somewhat deeper than OP as I factored good glass into the formula.

Lo and behold, I went to the firearms for sale section and found an unfired AO/AX custom with a Peirce action for less money than either. Decided to save a G or so on glass with a Bushy 3.5-21x50 ERSG2 in a Spuhr mount. A few 100 more for Atlas bipod and rear Mono and I'm <6K in the gun.

Elfster, hi thee to the used section and browse daily. Somebody has already built the gun of your dreams and is now either tired of it or needs to sell it. Check the good guy thread as well. From my albeit limited time here, most folks here are serious shooters in one form or another and from over 50 years in the shooting sports perspective, the serious guys don't screw one another over.

 

[elfster1234]

Ok... Im just going to wait and keep saving. I got 2k saved up so far. If im going to keep going then ill just get an ai or trg22.... I just love finding those sleepers tho like my rock river ar's.

And youre right.... This whole bolt action thing is driving nuts, lol!! Not like i dont have enough ar's to keep me busy.