Hunting & Fishing Opinions on experience w PA game warden (not a good one)

[Seuss]

Guys- interested in your take on a run-in my son and I had last night w a PA conservation officer.
We were archery hunting on our family farm, property's been in my family for 4 generations, son and I are the only ones that hunt it, we know all our neighbors and control the property well.
I finished hunting last night, was 110% dark, walked out to my truck, which was parked on the edge of a cornfield ~50 yards off a road. I was not using a light.
When I got to my truck a CO lit me up w his hand torch, blinding me, he's clearly on our property, standing next to my truck, he asked if we were the guys "banging away over there" (a doe only muzzleloader season ran concurrent w either sex archery for 1 week, ended last night). Thought it an odd question as I was standing there holding a Mathews, and I had only heard a couple distant shots, nowhere near us, and definitely not "banging away".
I answered no, got the prompt for my license, which I produced, was then asked where my orange hat was, wasn't in possession of one, had a large orange vest on.
Was told PA law requires a vest and hat, I was polite, did not argue, was keeping the comment of an orange hat in total darkness not being much use to myself.
I explained the background of our property and that we were the only hunters ever on it, knew all the neighbors, but wore vests nonetheless.
Assumed he'd warn us and move on, wrong.
Was told if he did that it would "set a bad example" so we were both getting written up.
He went back to his vehicle, I told him we were going to change clothes while he wrote the citations. His truck was ~75 yards away.
We're sitting in the back of my truck changing, putting our clothes and gear away, and another Game Commission truck pulls up 10 feet off my back bumper, turns on his light bar, completely blinding us.
I politely asked if he could turn it off and was told "can't do that".
Looked like a murder scene at this point, my son was amazed.
So this week we're getting fines mailed to us, can't wait to see how much.
The issue I have is this guy, w no reason/suspicion, sets up in the dark behind my truck, on our property. Does he have the right to come onto the farm at any time for any reason?
I knew the old CO for this area, he told me they love getting guys for details like this, generates revenue. he called it "getting a pinch".
Now that I'm on the pinching end I think it sucks.
What say you?

 

[ZLBubba]

That's a pretty unfortunate story. I think it's a damn shame that COs would behave that way. On the one hand, I totally understand that some hunters are irresponsible and/or willful lawbreakers. Still, I think that's a small minority of hunters and that COs should treat all hunters according to the bad actions of a few. You give a guy a little bit of authority, and he'll more often than not take it too far.

 

[Seuss]

Am wondering it it's worth my time to go to court rather than bending over and mailing a check.

 

[Sniper Uncle]

First of all, the law is pretty clear on 250 total square inches of orange displayed on the head, chest, and back, with no distinction on private property versus public land.
That being said, I would take the fine to court and question the CO's right to be on private property, given the fact that you had no fire-arm in your possession at the time of the citation, and that ostensibly the "probable cause" used to justify his accosting you in the first place was the sound of gun shots after dark. Given that you were on private land, returning to your vehicle, their may be room for leniency on the judge's part.
The PA Game Wardens and CO's will be the first to tell you in the Hunter Safety Course that Orange Display Violations are the most common citation issued to hunters. They also caution you to be sure you are in compliance with Orange Regulations at all times.
Sucks, but it is the Law.

 

[tiNdvenTFHwMdqKW]

LEO or not any f'er sneaking around on my property better hope he is better at sneaking around than I am.

Can't tell me you didn't see him there, if you didn't then you need to work on your situational awareness and make sure to either evade or confront the situation better.

BTW - we don't own our own land anymore - we are just "allowed" to live there by the good graces of our government and the corporations that finance the politicians.

 

[Graham]

Opinions on experience w PA game warden (not a good one)

I would take the fine to court and question the CO's right to be on private property, given the fact that you had no fire-arm in your possession at the time of the citation, and that ostensibly the "probable cause" used to justify his accosting you in the first place was the sound of gun shots after dark.

He was not cited for possessing a firearm, so not having possessed one is not relevant to the charge.

Are you saying that conservation officers in PA have no right to enter private property? Because if that is true, and they are not permitted to enter upon land in the performance of their duties, then how can they do their job?

 

[Seuss]

PB,
#1- it was dark, I was using no illumination, and due to eye surgery I cannot see shit at night
#2- he was behind my truck
Thanks for the advice, I will circle downwind next time.

 

[Seuss]

Graham,
Was hoping you'd reply, I am not saying they have no right, just wondering if they are free to exercise it because they feel like it, or do they need a reason to do so.
I'm just asking.

 

[ArmaHeavy]

I must be under a different impression as to this.

I think he is in the wrong for being on your land without asking you first, but then I don't know the exact rules regarding PA's hunting regulations, plus he might give the 'probable cause' line saying that he was going after suspected poachers(Must not have been important enough to stop that just to hassle a guy and his kid for not wearing orange on their own land), even though it did sound like he knew where he was, because he pointed to the area he was searching, and then he ended up on your land.

I say that you should review all the PA hunting rules(They might have a website, make sure to print them out, and take them with you if you go to court, as Seuss' Defense Exhibit A-?) you can, before deciding to either challenge it in court, or mailing a check. It might help to call up your CO friend, and ask him for advice, tips, and sage-like wisdom.

After that madness clears, you might want to think about a good, big fence around your property, as well as some turtle ditches, a privacy hedge, a moat, etc.

I'm also keeping in mind that the Orange regulations very from state to state, locality to locality.

 

[Seuss]

The PA regs clearly state the orange needs to be head, shoulder and back, for an hour past sunset (that's hilarious, I would be driving home w orange on!!), so we were a head away from being legal.
I am not disputing that.
What grinds me is these guys rollin onto private land, no probable cause, and waiting for the trucks owner (me) to return and interrogate.
A few years ago I was sitting on the tailgate of my truck on the farm eating lunch, during the whitetail firearms season.
A Game Commission truck drove by the farm, saw me sitting there, locked up the wheels, went into reverse and drove ~100 yards across our field to ask me what I was doing.

 

[ArmaHeavy]

The PA regs clearly state the orange needs to be head, shoulder and back, so we were a head away from being legal.
I am not disputing that.
What grinds me is these guys rollin onto private land and waiting for thes trucks owner (me) to return and interrogate.
A few years ago I wa sitting on the tailgate of my truck on the farm eating lunch, during the whitetail firearms season.
A Game Commission truck drove by the farm, saw me sitting there, locked up the wheels, went into reverse and drove ~100 yards across our field to ask me what I was doing.

Do you know your state senator for your area? You can do either that(contact a legislator), or file a complaint or grievance of sorts with the Officer's head office in regards to.

I'm not too sure if you had anything planted in the fields, but if you did, and he ran it over, then it's destruction of private property.

 

[Jig Stick]

I'd be meeting the judge for sure.

 

[Bluejazz]

Great PR move on the part of the PA CO

 

[Sniper Uncle]

He was not cited for possessing a firearm, so not having possessed one is not relevant to the charge.

Are you saying that conservation officers in PA have no right to enter private property? Because if that is true, and they are not permitted to enter upon land in the performance of their duties, then how can they do their job?

Graham, I understand your point, and respect your position, but on one's private land in PA, the rules are not quite so cut and dried. Using the sound of gunshots as probable cause, then accosting a person with a bow, and charging them with an unrelated charge is shaky at best. Fortunately, the cost of a citation for insufficient or improperly displayed orange is not too exorbitant. Then, he was returning to his vehicle after dark, when you can't hunt anyway, so the display of orange becomes rather irrelevant. If he did not have a "loaded" weapon with him at the time, then he was not "hunting," and therefore not subject to the "display of orange" rules. Any way you cut it, the warden didn't have any leg to stand on given the fact that he was looking for the person who discharged a gun after legal hunting hours, and found a father and son on foot with out a fire-arm, and certainly without a loaded weapon, so the orange display was not required at the time of the citation.

 

[Graham]

Opinions on experience w PA game warden (not a good one)

Graham, I understand your point, and respect your position, but on one's private land in PA, the rules are not quite so cut and dried. Using the sound of gunshots as probable cause, then accosting a person with a bow, and charging them with an unrelated charge is shaky at best. Fortunately, the cost of a citation for insufficient or improperly displayed orange is not too exorbitant. Then, he was returning to his vehicle after dark, when you can't hunt anyway, so the display of orange becomes rather irrelevant. If he did not have a "loaded" weapon with him at the time, then he was not "hunting," and therefore not subject to the "display of orange" rules. Any way you cut it, the warden didn't have any leg to stand on given the fact that he was looking for the person who discharged a gun after legal hunting hours, and found a father and son on foot with out a fire-arm, and certainly without a loaded weapon, so the orange display was not required at the time of the citation.

Sniper Uncle, with all due respect you're making this up.

You can't simply guess at what the rules are and then claim a defense, you have to look at the actual elements of the law that is alleged was broken.

Regarding your analysis: State law does not change because a crime happens on private property. So there's nothing 'shaky' about it: Police are not required to arrest you for the same reason that they stop you.

And I'm sure that the blaze orange rule does not have 'presently in the act of hunting' as an element of the offense. I could be wrong, though. If it were me, that's what I would check on: The elements of the infraction. Were they satisfied? Yes; or No.

C'mon guys, this is common sense. The story described by the OP is not some sort of blatant constitutional violation, it's actually a rather routine example of how conservation officers and police officers do their job: They get dispatched to a call (here because of a report of gun shots after dark - a possible game violation); they investigate; they find people doing things wrong; they write tickets and make arrests.

 

[Sniper Uncle]

Sniper Uncle, with all due respect you're making this up.

You can't simply guess at what the rules are and then claim a defense, you have to look at the actual elements of the law that is alleged was broken.

Regarding your analysis: State law does not change because a crime happens on private property. So there's nothing 'shaky' about it: Police are not required to arrest you for the same reason that they stop you.

And I'm sure that the blaze orange rule does not have 'presently in the act of hunting' as an element of the offense. I could be wrong, though. If it were me, that's what I would check on: The elements of the infraction. Were they satisfied? Yes; or No.

C'mon guys, this is common sense. The story described by the OP is not some sort of blatant constitutional violation, it's actually a rather routine example of how conservation officers and police officers do their job: They get dispatched to a call (here because of a report of gun shots after dark - a possible game violation); they investigate; they find people doing things wrong; they write tickets and make arrests.

Graham, I disagree with your assertion that the "in the act of hunting" means nothing. He was on private land, after dark, without fire-arms. I can walk my dog after dark during hunting season any time I want, and they have no right to cite me for insufficient/improperly displayed orange. Returning to a vehicle after dark is the same as walking a dog after dark. The orange display rules do not apply. The only thing they could justly do is give a warning ticket here, as they have no proof that they guys did not lose their hats after dark on the way back to the car----reasonable doubt. I stand by my assertion that the CO had no justification in writing the citation. I have won in court with less.

 

[Graham]

Opinions on experience w PA game warden (not a good one)

The PA regs clearly state the orange needs to be head, shoulder and back, for an hour past sunset (that's hilarious, I would be driving home w orange on!!), so we were a head away from being legal.
I am not disputing that.

Sniper Uncle, I'm not going to look up the statute for you, but above is your answer from the OP, and keep in mind that his admission was posted even before you replied.

As to you lecturing law enforcement, judges and lawyers about the law, and claiming that what you stated is reasonable doubt, or even that reasonable doubt is the correct standard for that infraction, you're on your own.

You are still doing more talking than reading and listening, which might be OK if it made any sense.

 

[Sniper Uncle]

As usual, Graham, you are correct. I responded to your first post, not seeing the OP's post relating to the one hour.
I will drop this issue, with the understanding that you are mostly correct in your statements. However, in PA, on private property, the land owner does have rights which are different from a person hunting on public land or even on other private land. I would still be taking this to court. What the OP admits here need not necessarily be said in court.

I do stand chastised by you, Graham, and will not further add to this thread.

 

[I'm in]

1.) There is no dispute as to whether or not he was hunting.
2.) Like it or not, game laws can be enforced on private property.
3.) Some states exempt private property from licensing and orange laws.
4.) Game laws are still enforced the same in the aforementioned states.
That's the way it is.

Graham, I disagree with your assertion that the "in the act of hunting" means nothing. He was on private land, after dark, without fire-arms. I can walk my dog after dark during hunting season any time I want, and they have no right to cite me for insufficient/improperly displayed orange. Returning to a vehicle after dark is the same as walking a dog after dark. The orange display rules do not apply. The only thing they could justly do is give a warning ticket here, as they have no proof that they guys did not lose their hats after dark on the way back to the car----reasonable doubt. I stand by my assertion that the CO had no justification in writing the citation. I have won in court with less.

 

[Seuss]

Just to clarify- there was no report about gunshots, the shots I mentioned were all during legal shooting hours and numbered maybe 4, and were several ridgelines away, no "blasting" as mentioned by the CO.
If he used my location as a starting point for an investigation of a report of "blasting" (if there were one), he was way off base directionally looking behind my truck for clues.

Bottom line in my opinion, and that's all it is- CO saw my truck, was an easy target, he parked, walked over and waited behind it for me return so he could hopefully catch me doing something worthy of a citation/pinch. Unfortunately my bare head gave him one.
The fact that there was 110% no violation occuring at the time he chose to enter private property without permission or cause rattles my cage.
The CO's conduct during the raid was not taxpayer friendly to boot.
Maybe next time we're heading out at 530am, he'll be sitting in the dark in my yard, watching us load up, looking for contraband.

I need a beer.

 

[Jon Lester]

What if they had been out target practicing on their land with their bow, would the orange rule apply?

 

[Graham]

Opinions on experience w PA game warden (not a good one)

What if they had been out target practicing on their land with their bow, would the orange rule apply?

Good question. I don't know the answer. In some states if you are in the woods during open deer season you need to wear orange. I don't know about PA.

 

[Sniper Uncle]

Opinions on experience w PA game warden (not a good one)

Graham, don't jump on me here, please.
On being in the woods---not hunting--- without orange.
According to the Warden who administered the Hunter Safety test to me three years ago, if you are completely un-armed in the woods during hunting season, (hence, you are not hunting) you are foolish, but not in violation of the Hunter Regulations. This is in Pennsylvania.
When I lived in New Hampshire, the same rule applied, but that was 20 years ago.

 

[Graham]

Opinions on experience w PA game warden (not a good one)

The question I would have about PA's fluorescent orange requirements is whether the hat may, according the regulation, be removed when an archer is on a stand or stationary during the archery deer season's overlap with an October firearms season.

And yes, that's a hint.

 

[Sniper Uncle]

From the rules: During Archery (ONLY--not in conjunction with any fire-arms season), a completely orange hat is needed when moving--may be removed when stationary. When Archery hunting in conjunction with early muzzle-loader season, then 250 square inches on head, chest and back while moving---may be removed and 100 square inches posted within 15 feet while stationary. At all other firearms seasons, when archery hunting, the 250 inches apply.

 

[19Scout77]

IMO. Not a hill worth dying on.

 

[Seuss]

Yes, it can.

(During the overlap with the October Muzzleloader/
Special Antlerless Firearms Seasons in October)
When hunting during the early muzzleloader antlerless
deer season/special antlerless firearms season, a
minimum of 250 square inches on head, chest and
back combined, visible 360 degrees at all times when
moving. May be removed when archer is stationary in
a tree or ground stand, providing 100 square inches of
fluorescent orange material is posted within 15 feet of
the location and is visible 360 degrees.

 

[Graham]

Opinions on experience w PA game warden (not a good one)

IMO. Not a hill worth dying on.

Agreed, according to the initial facts as given.

 

[Seuss]

IMO. Not a hill worth dying on.

Not planning on it E.
Back to my original question-

"The issue I have is this guy, w no reason/suspicion, sets up in the dark behind my truck, on our property. Does he have the right to come onto the farm at any time for any reason?"

I guess the crowd is saying yes.

 

[220 Swift AI]

Should they be able to. HELL NO But as always they make the rules as they go.

 

[slavage]

yeah your getting it cause of the orange,
is your land posted?
if so take pics of it and call up the local pd ask to get in writing what the fine is,
go to court tell the judge yes I did the not enough orange thing and ill take my fine and ill pay it now
then ask the judge to enforce your personal rights about your land being posted and have each of the officers there be fined as they inturn broke law all so.. as the law states seeing how if one law is good for one person so are the others for every one else..

 

[ArmyJerry]

You should have called the cops and reported him for trespassing, you should wear the orange though, Pa is full of crazy deer killers, with buck fever, more so than any other state I've hunted..

 

[kurt]

game wardens can go where they want when they want to. They have more power than most leo and if they want to can be a real pain in the ass

 

[diverdon]

Am wondering it it's worth my time to go to court rather than bending over and mailing a check.

I would recommend that if you decide to go to court you get an attorney who is familiar with the issues involved. I am not an attorney, but if it were my land I would ask my attorney to consider the argument that hunting dress code regulations did not apply at the time the warden stopped me because season closed at sunset, all I was doing at the time the officer stopped me was walking to my truck on my own land, something I have the right to do dressed any way I please.

 

[diverdon]

Not planning on it E.
Back to my original question-

"The issue I have is this guy, w no reason/suspicion, sets up in the dark behind my truck, on our property. Does he have the right to come onto the farm at any time for any reason?"

I guess the crowd is saying yes.

It is not a matter of his rights, it is a matter of your rights. Do you have a legal right to keep the game warden off your property while you are lawfully hunting it? In my state I have been told that getting a hunting license gives an implied consent to be inspected and searched. I do not think that is right, but I have been told it is the law.

 

[Mark williams]

They are their to protect the wildlife, plain and simple. It doesn't matter if its public or private and game is their they have the right to intrude. They can come on property to check illegal baiting or any activity. They have more authority than me
Without search warrants. As for the hunter orange I would wear plenty during any firearm season while moving. I had a best freind killed deer hunting when he was 13 years old by a poacher on private land. I have private lease and when my boys with me coming and going we have plenty on. It's simply not worth the chance. With that being said, the guy should have given you a warning and went on his way. Some people simply are assholes and he was probably that but when you go to court their going to ask if you had legal inches of orange and it will be a yes / no question. I feel for you though and I'm not saying its right either.

 

[45.308]

Was F&G wearing orange while in the field during hunting season?

I would claim my eyes were damage by the bright lights and file a complaint/suit naming the officer and the state. The officer was rude and my son is traumatized now, that he was a anti hunter and gun hater but now supports gun rights and hunting rights all due to the officers actions.

Its what F&G do, too many stories just like this referring to F&G watching and waiting just to trip hunters and fishermen up for revenue. It has little to do with actual safety or protection of resources, its about generating revenue(taxes). Its not about game changing law breakers but they look for something small that give them probable cause to go accost someone looking for more. And 90% of the time they can because it is hard to understand all laws and they can harass you into breaking laws, and they know this. And guess what, we all let the government intrude into our rights so this is our outcome for being passive.

 

[xdeano]

This is the exact crap that I try to avoid. I'll give you some freindly advice. Throughout the year go around and meet all of the game wardens in your area and have lunch with them or coffee and doughnuts. If you get to know them, the next time you meet them in the woods at night, they'll at least know your name. I don't expect them to wave a ticket if i'm deserving, but atleast they'll trust that i'm not lieing to them. I've got 7 wardens in my area, and I know them all, and they're all good guys.

You might have gotten one that was fairly new trying to prove a point or push his weight around. I've been through a couple of them were just like that, but after you do a grin and greet they tend to change their tune a little. They want the preception as a bad ass, and for you to tell everyone you meet about them, it creates a big brother mentality. They're people just like everyone else, they put their pants on one leg at a time.

Deano

 

[Graham]

Opinions on experience w PA game warden (not a good one)

I'll give you some freindly advice. Throughout the year go around and meet all of the game wardens in your area and have lunch with them or coffee and doughnuts.

Just make sure that they are good doughnuts. You can scar a man for life with those sour things with the fake sprinkles on top, in which case he might come looking for you later in the season.

 

[ArmyJerry]

I personally never met a ahole game warden, they have all been top notch even offering advice once you get to know them a little bit.

 

[BoilerUP]

We used to be on first-name basis with the game warden that covered the area my family's land was in. He had the gate combination and we had each other's cell numbers; he would patrol our farm to keep an eye out for funny business and if we saw anything one call and he was there ASAP. Couple times he stopped by deer camp when he was off-duty for dinner and a beer.

Great guy.

Then he retired. Now, we keep the gate across the road locked.

 

[KYS]

We had similar run in with Florida Fish & Game last week. They stopped us in the channel that takes us home in about 9ft of water and it was dropping quickly. They boarded our boat and began asking for our captains papers and license. They never once asked for a fishing license or what we caught. They looked in our holding tanks and measured a few fish. They asked me if the boat was a charter and I kindly told him no it was not a charter we own and operate the boat ourselves. It was a bit strange, like someone told them to look for us and one officer borderline was harassing us, the driver was calm and friendly. He made jokes with us and eventually told his partner to wrap it up and move along.

Something just didn't feel right about him not asking for a fishing license.

 

[jeo556]

As far as the OP and his question is concerned, not a fight worth fighting. As far as I know the PA game wardens and CO all have the authority to go onto private land in performance of thier job duties. From what I understand they really don't even need probable cause as long as the land they are on is huntable and its hunting season. That is where the problem lies.......they should not have that kind of authority and power and the only way to change it would be through legislation.

As far as some of the other comments are concerned in regards to knowing your local game warden, seems like a good idea. But I can say that every single warden that I've run into was rude and condescending, and I was never sighted for any offenses because I wasn't committing any. Treated like a second rate asshole anyway. I don't much care for them. Here in Western PA a ex-steeler and NFL Hall of Famer is a GW and the general concensus is that he isn't very liked. Which considering his past in this football proud town says a lot.

 

[bohem]

Sam,

I'm sorry to hear this, but it is the unfortunate way things have gone in PA with the PGC.

I can almost guarantee you that going to court is going to just add court fees to your situation, the judge will say "the law is clear, pay the fine plus costs"

Chances are the fine is probably $300/head too.

The part of the officer also showing up and lighting you up with the bar and refusing might be able to work into a professionalism complaint, but I can tell you that I have met a lot of PGCO's and all but 1 have been arrogant pricks. I waited until I got my $25 fine and he closed the case, he continued his pontification, and then I gave him my thoughts on his lack of professionalism, assumptions of people and other hunters, and the public display of arrogance with which he conducts himself. This guy's name is Keith Mullins (or Mullens) and I'm surprised he could get in and out of that SUV his ego is so inflated. It definitely soured my view of them even more, if I make a mistake I sure as hell won't be self-reporting. I will just butcher up the accident and put it in my freezer instead, all of his fiddlety-dee about the situation caused the accidental kill animal to spoil and it went into a dumpster which did absolutely no good whatsoever. I even offered to pay the butcher bill so it could be donated to a local food pantry, but he got in the way of that.

I know for a fact it is allowed because PA is part of "Hunter's Sharing the Harvest" but he was obtuse about the whole situation and screwed it up. When I related the events to the 1 PGCO that I mentioned above is a good guy, he was disgusted with the actions of Mullens, particularly the part about the deer being wasted.

A co-worker of mine years ago was written up by another PGC officer for having a road kill deer in their posession, the PSP trooper that gave them the deer didn't give them a slip (and I've been given a deer like that too). The problem being it was a nice buck that got hit and the PGCO suspected that they poached it. The deer didn't have a mark on it, at least not a bullet or arrow hole but lots of hide missing from getting thumped by a motor vehicle. That one again went to a dumpster, spoiled, and my co-worker hired an attorney and paid almost $500 in fees to avoid a $1200 ticket and a 10 year loss of hunting priveleges.


The PGC has done well by the Elk herd in PA, but the whitetail herd is sorely mismanaged and they're doing their best to ruin hunting in this state. Since 1991 the number of hunters has steadily declined in PA when all of the surrounding states have seen an increase in hunting.



Now, the only potential way that I could see getting this kicked is to make them provide evidence that they were allowed to be there. There is still a requirement for reasonable cause to be on private land, otherwise they're just trespassing. The story about the "banging away" is a ruse and the judge may see it and may not.

Did you have an orange hat WITH you and just not ON? That would be my excuse in court. "Your honor, I had the hat in my possession. I took it off as I approached my vehicle to get undressed for the ride home. Officer Dickwagon wrote me up for not wearing it x hours after full dark, on my property, where he was trespassing to being with."

Barring those things... I suspect your fine is going to be $300 for you an Jr...

 

[Bubb]

You don't want to run in to Pa game commission, it will cost you every time. I always carry orange vest (thin) and a hat. Ill roll them up and have them on person. gives me argument that I had on person and took off after walking out after hunting hours. you need to watch getting into a pissing match with them they are as bad as they come for stomping on your rights. I have a good buddy who got in deep with them and did win. A neighbor who wanted to hunt his property and was told know thought he would screw him. Told the game commission he was baiting deer. They set up a sting waited for him and everything. He came home from work got a beer and a rifle and went for a walk on his own property. They came up in his property when they saw him leave his house. Found him, gave him field drunk test, took his gun, told him he was pouching and was going to arrest him. But my friend has some money and a attorney that will skull screw anybody for money! Long story short no shots fired, no game killed, unconstitioal stop...... the lawyer made it that (this) warden went above the law to get (this) person and it was personal and if he comes back and does't have it perfect (dead animal) they are going to be in hot water.... So you can win, but point said I have never met a nice one! Im almost wondering if they have a scum bag class they take while becoming a warden? I do feel for you. That being said laws have changed in pa. If you get caught poaching a deer its worse than shooting a person! IM serious look into it!

 

[Seuss]

I was 110% polite and non-confrontational/argumentative, am too old for that.
Our intent was to comply w the law, thus our orange vests, still on in total darkness, just didn't know about the hat part.

From the PA code-

"(8) Conduct administrative inspections of persons, licenses and permits, firearms, ammunition and other implements of taking, game bags, game, meat poles, tags, clothing, waterfowl blinds, decoys, tree stands, immediate hunting locations, or any means of transportation or its attachments used as blinds or as hunting locations, and any coolers or containers possessed at a hunting location when prima facie evidence of hunting exists. Any officer conducting an administrative inspection shall, if any person is present, present a badge or other means of official identification and state the purpose of the inspection."

I was not informed of the purpose of the inspection.

 

[stranded]

I was taking my boys out deer hunting during youth season with grandpa on a Sunday. While walking back to the truck 3/4 mile, two Sherriff deputies wait on the hwy. They had to have waited for 1/2 hour as we weren't in any hurry. When we got to the truck, they wanted to know what we were doing. We explained it was youth season and we were going home for noon dinner. They were unaware of such things and made us wait while they called DNR. Two Officers(?) wasting time. They could have asked DNR before we got there. No, that would be sensible. I haven't any respect for enforcement people like these.

 

[Sharp Shooter]

Seuss

My family has a 1000 acre farm. My friends and I in the summer go out and shoot blackbirds. We used to bring cases of shotgun shells with us and shoot as fast as we could all night long. It got to the point that the bird population was so big that we were buying pallets of shotgun shells at a time. Our farm must of ben on a migration flyaway. My family flew to the Bahammas because my wife and i were getting married. I recieved a phone call from one of my friends stating the game wardon drove on our farm and gave my friends tickets for shooting blackbirds without a hunting license. My dad exploded. He called the game wardon up and chewed his ass up one side and down the other. He told the game officer that he was trespassing and he did not need to ever step foot on our ground. If he did there could be a farm accident with one of our big tractors running over his truck while he was driving around our property in the dark with his lights off. When my dad returned home from our wedding he was arrested for verbally assulting an officer. Even though he was not in the country and it was a phone call. I went and made bail 30 minutes later for dad. My dad hired an attorney and we learned that the game wardon has the most rights and authority than any other law enforcement officer. If he believes you have excess bag limits in your home he can come in and search your home without a warrent. My Dad never ended up going to court because 10 days later he was killed in a private plane crash. My advice is if money does not matter hire an attorney and fight the charge. What will happen is they will try to negotiate a lesser charge. Stick to your guns and request a jury trial the charges will probably be dropped but you will have court costs and attorney fees so what have you gained? Your better off paying the fines and remembering to wear your orange

 

[xdeano]

Isn't that the truth!
Keep 'em fresh, no 3 day olds. A good coffee also helps.

Deano

Just make sure that they are good doughnuts. You can scar a man for life with those sour things with the fake sprinkles on top, in which case he might come looking for you later in the season.

 

[Seuss]

Letter hit today, over $300.
Nice job PA Game Commission.