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AIAW 308, 338LM and ?????

paindoc

paindoc

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Full Member
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Sep 7, 2008
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Peoples Republic of Michigan
I currently have AIAW in both 308 and 338LM. I want to round out the family so I am considering a third caliber. I shoot the occasional tactical match and am getting more into precision rifle I am noting more advanced rifleman using other calibers other than what I have.
I really want to stick with AI for both quality and
for familiarity so do I go with the only other Caliber AI offers 300 Win Mag or sit tight or something completely different.
I see that the people who are winning these comps shoot anything EXCEPT 308 or 338LM so is another caliber required to do well or can one get good enough to win or do well with the calibers I do have. I suspect it's 99% shooter but I can't help notice what the winners are shooting.
 
How do you do in the matches? Do you feel you're the limiting factor or the fact your shooting a 308?

A 308 is very effective if you can shoot, if you can't another round isn't going to make you a better shooter. I took second place in a match yesterday running a AI 308 with Berger juggernauts and a friend of mine took fourth running the same setup. I believe there was also another 308 shooter in the top 5.

If you feel compelled to try something else why not just order a barrel for your AW? You can swap calibers in a matter of minutes with just a barrel vise, action wrench, and torque wrench. If you don't like it you can sell it here and get most of your money back.
 
I have only been to one true tactical match (Bushnell brawl at Rifles only) where I
finished in bottom 25%. I was told that that particular match is one of the most challenging matches out there so not to feel bad. A couple of other style matches I have finished at the middle.
So yes it is mostly me.
 
There's your answer. Spend your money or ammo or loading components. The longer barrel life of the 308 will afford you more practice.
 
paindoc said:
I do understand that I am
The weakest link in the equation but given that would there be any benefit to changing calibers now ?
Btw thanks for the advice!
Click to expand...

If your goal is to shoot matches like the Brawl.....you will be handicapped by the .308. You just give up to much with it compared to the 6 or 6.5's, i.e. Better Recoil, Drop, Drift in the 6's ver the .308.
 
AIAW 308, 338LM and ?????

poison123 said:
If your goal is to shoot matches like the Brawl.....you will be handicapped by the .308. You just give up to much with it compared to the 6 or 6.5's, i.e. Better Recoil, Drop, Drift in the 6's ver the .308.
Click to expand...
I would say the opposite:

For matches like the Brawl a .308 is all you need. Almost all of the targets are KD and elevation is elevation - dial it correctly and you are there. At Rifles Only there are few stages over 600 yards, and the emphasis is not on ballistic advantage. For the 800/900/1000 stage you will be handicapped, but only if the wind is blowing hard.

In contrast, for matches like ASC and the Cup you will be at a disadvantage with a .308 because the shots beyond 600 are frequent, the exact range is not always known, and the wind is less predictable due to the effects of terrain.
 
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Graham said:
I would say the opposite:

For matches like the Brawl a .308 is all you need. Elevation is elevation - dial it correctly and you are there. At Rifles Only there are few stages over 600 yards, and the emphasis is not on ballistic advantage. For the 800/900/1000 stage you will be handicapped, but only if the wind is blowing hard.

In contrast, for matches like ASC and the Cup you will be at a disadvantage with a .308 because the shots beyond 600 are frequent, range is not always known and the wind is less predictable due to the effects of terrain.
Click to expand...

I always assume wind will be a issue ;)
 
AIAW 308, 338LM and ?????

Assume:

First: Known Range.
Second: Known Wind.
If you know the elevation, dial it, and If you can measure the wind hold the correct amount. No problem with a .308.

Compare:

First: Unknown range.
Second: Wind at the gun not relevant.
Danger space becomes an issue, and cutting your wind hold in half reduces your margin of error. Now a .308 is a handicap.
 
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What are traing for? Match shooter? Or some other aspect of exceptionally proficient rifle handling and marksmanship?

If the later - cease your concern with what caliber the latest jerseyed shooter took home the hardware with.

If you want to shoot matches, understand that a .308, a level of practice that intuits the effect of wind at a series of distances, and a real command of what constitutes a wasted move - ie course management or how to be the most efficient shooter possible , means a whole lot more than a flatter shooting caliber. Become a student of efficiency, break down your own mechanics, look critically at your gear, geat into great physical shape, become a student of the wind, stop shooting at a square range, shoot odd positions, shoot your own COFs, shoot on a clock... Etc.
 
AIAW 308, 338LM and ?????

I shot a .308 for four years in matches all over the country. Of all the mistakes I made at every match, not having a .260 was not one of them.

But I'll admit: if you're fighting for position among the top ten in the top five most competitive matches in the country, then shooting a .308 will probably be a disadvantage.
 
AIAW 308, 338LM and ?????

Rattler56 said:
so why not.
Click to expand...
Because all the cool kids are shooting 6mm.

Seriously though, spending money is fun, but it's not a substitute for getting to know one rifle/caliber very well and using it consistently in matches.
 
Graham said:
Because all the cool kids are shooting 6mm.

Seriously though, spending money is fun, but it's not a substitute for getting to know one rifle/caliber very well and using it consistently in matches.
Click to expand...

Totally Agree. Still love mine.
 
AIAW 308, 338LM and ?????

OP,

Here's a plan:

1) Take your left handed AW.
2) Pick a caliber, any caliber (with apologies to Groucho Marx and his 'Pick a card- any card' routine).
3) Have Moon chamber two identical barrels for it.
4) Then lock-up everything else until you've put no fewer than three thousand handloaded match rounds through that gun, in training courses and in matches.

I guaran-fuckin'-tee you that whatever caliber you chose will then be your favorite caliber.
 
Graham said:
OP,

Here's a plan:

1) Take your left handed AW.
2) Pick a caliber, any caliber (with apologies to Groucho Marx and his 'Pick a card- any card' routine).
3) Have Moon chamber two identical barrels for it.
4) Then lock-up everything else until you've put no fewer than three thousand handloaded match rounds through that gun, in training courses and in matches.

I guaran-fuckin'-tee you that whatever caliber you chose will then be your favorite caliber.
Click to expand...
Well said.
 
Graham said:
OP,

Here's a plan:

1) Take your left handed AW.
2) Pick a caliber, any caliber (with apologies to Groucho Marx and his 'Pick a card- any card' routine).
3) Have Moon chamber two identical barrels for it.
4) Then lock-up everything else until you've put no fewer than three thousand handloaded match rounds through that gun, in training courses and in matches.

I guaran-fuckin'-tee you that whatever caliber you chose will then be your favorite caliber.
Click to expand...

I absolutely agree with you. I was thinking of
adding a 260 or 6.5 to the line up and then I should have the tools in my closet to have available to maybe be a little less frustrated. But indeed as I have said before I am quite confident that 98 % of the less than desired results are due to my own shooting techniques which are slowly getting better.
You know how it is ;
We want what we don't have.....
But yes , all the cool kids have the ___________
 
I have been shooting an mil spec Surgeon PSR .338 LM in an AIAX chassis for a year now. Great rifle, lots of bullet choices. Just bought an early AIAW .300 win mag and I can honestly say I can not pick a favorite of the two. Both are very accurate, the .300 put 4 out of 5 bullets through the same hole yesterday at the range. I shot an AIAW .300 win mag in the military for 6 years and grew to like the caliber as much as a .30-06 I think that a .300 would be a little redundant for you, and the 6mm and .260 rifle suggestions spot on.
 
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Have another barrel spun up in 6.5 CM. There are a lot of 6's out there no doubt, but at distance it's harder to spot your impacts/misses with the smaller bullets. You need to see what your bullet is doing down range to make corrections. The 6.5 will still have reduced recoil increased BC to help you shoot better, although all the fundamentals still need to be applied correctly. No one would shoot the smaller calibers if there were not an advantage to doing so.
 
Dave,

Agreed.

But Doc knows that all the cool kids here are getting gain-twist 6mm barrels... LOL!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
.308 Win vs. .30-06 ? Match Results May Surprise You « Daily Bulletin

Even a standard 243 with the 115 dtac is a force to be reckoned with. At 1000 yards it will hard to get any better.

I like the 260 rem as well, especially if you run it out of a long tube and hit 2900+ fps with the 140 class bullets. Other than barrel life though, I'm not sure how much of a performance gain you will get over the 243 / 115 dtac combo.
 
AIAW 308, 338LM and ?????

Just have a different barrel chambered.... Actually, if it's 6mm, better make it two identical barrels chambered.
 
Doc, I am an old action shooter who is about to shoot his first bolt gun / movement match.
Reading your post, it sounds familiar. Equipment can complicate your learning curve. Calibers and guns, there is a lot that can accumulate. A lot of complexity and no rhythm / memory. Not saying three guns is too much. You just came back with YOUR 308 and did compete without being DQ'd. Far better than that I take it. You won. You advanced. Keep up that rhythm. 308 and a 338, plenty to study on.
Just a perspective from me. Nothing more than conversation.
 
paindoc said:
Are you suggesting two identical barrels ordered at once? Why?
Click to expand...

6mm's burn throats quick. Two identical barrels you most likely won't have to mess with seating depths going to the next barrel and maximizes your chances of being able to run the exact same load.
 
Sporter II said:
Doc, I am an old action shooter who is about to shoot his first bolt gun / movement match.
Reading your post, it sounds familiar. Equipment can complicate your learning curve. Calibers and guns, there is a lot that can accumulate. A lot of complexity and no rhythm / memory. Not saying three guns is too much. You just came back with YOUR 308 and did compete without being DQ'd. Far better than that I take it. You won. You advanced. Keep up that rhythm. 308 and a 338, plenty to study on.
Just a perspective from me. Nothing more than conversation.
Click to expand...

Sounds like very sage advice! Thank you very much!
 
I would wait and see what AI comes out with this year. It might be something new and worth waiting on.

I agree, if you want to do well in comps, ditch the .308 and go to a 6.5 or 6. How many top 10 finishes are with .308?
 
Cobracutter said:
I agree, if you want to do well in comps, ditch the .308 and go to a 6.5 or 6. How many top 10 finishes are with .308?
Click to expand...

Have you ever shot a match? If you go to a match like the hide cup that attracts the best shooters in the country then I would agree you need every advantage you can get if you want to come out at the top and you need to be one of those top shooters too, the round isn't going to win you a match alone. There are matches all over the country however that bring in great shooters and people do well with the 308. I finished second at the PNTC match with my lowly 308 and my friend took forth also shooting a 308 and I believe there was another in the top 5, I know there were in the top 10. There were plenty of shooters there running 6.5's and 6mm. That same friend won a mason dixon series match as well and I believe was 2-3 overall in the standings.

You can be competitive and you can win to a certain level with 308. To suggest you can't go to a match and be competitive with a 308 just makes you sound stupid.
 
redneckbmxer24 said:
Have you ever shot a match? If you go to a match like the hide cup that attracts the best shooters in the country then I would agree you need every advantage you can get if you want to come out at the top and you need to be one of those top shooters too, the round isn't going to win you a match alone. There are matches all over the country however that bring in great shooters and people do well with the 308. I finished second at the PNTC match with my lowly 308 and my friend took forth also shooting a 308 and I believe there was another in the top 5, I know there were in the top 10. There were plenty of shooters there running 6.5's and 6mm. That same friend won a mason dixon series match as well and I believe was 2-3 overall in the standings.

You can be competitive and you can win to a certain level with 308. To suggest you can't go to a match and be competitive with a 308 just makes you sound stupid.
Click to expand...

How about this...name a PRS match where someone placed top 5? top10? with a .308.
 
poison123 said:
How about you read the majority of the posts above you again.
Click to expand...

I wasn't quoting any other posts expect the one suggesting you can't do well in any comps with a 308. The first thing my post says is that if you go to a major match like the cup (read PRS series) you need every advantage possible and a 308 isn't going to cut it.
 
AIAW 308, 338LM and ?????

redneckbmxer24 said:
I wasn't quoting any other posts expect the one suggesting you can't do well in any comps with a 308. The first thing my post says is that if you go to a major match like the cup (read PRS series) you need every advantage possible and a 308 isn't going to cut it.
Click to expand...
The .308 isn't going to cut it at the Cup today because of the venue. But a .308 placed in the top ten at the Cup a few years ago when the match was held at Rifles Only.
 
Graham said:
The .308 isn't going to cut it at the Cup today because of the venue. But a .308 placed in the top ten at the Cup a few years ago when the match was held at Rifles Only.
Click to expand...

My point exactly. A good shooter can still do well with one at many matches. Not every match is a PRS series match after all.
 
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