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Please explain .22 hoarding to me????

DFOOSKING, I really enjoy most of your post. However, when you generalize about people, and say you don't care if it upsets them is messed up. First off, what's wrong with making money in a legal way. Capitalist means you can make all the money you want. That's part of what makes this country great. I don't buy to resale because I have a great paying job, but if I had the time, I would.
I support anyone who has a way to make money legally, and not having to depend on government subsidies. I must be one of those "Shit Bags" you're talking about.

The shit bags that created the housing problems weren't the banks. Dumbass!! That mess was created because irresponsible people accepted loans that they should have known they could not afford to pay long term. Banks just made the offerings, but didn't force anyone to sign and accept the loans. It's just easier to shift the blame to the banks because thats what irresponsible people do, just like credit card debt. I bet you voted for Obama, seeing how he's one that loves blaming everyone else for his mess ups.

I for one don't think the government should bail any business out. If they fail, and go bankrupt, another one will open in its place that will try harder. This would include banks. Bail outs aren't free. Someone is paying for them, and that someone is anyone who works and pays taxes.
 
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PH68, no biggy, i was just wiseassin'.

the primer compound (at least at CCI) is "smeared" across a jig (several hundred measured perforated holes) by hand, then put into a machine - they don't put the compound into the shells one by one.

for the topic, went to Dick's on wednesday for goose shotgun loads, they had several cases of CCI Std Vel ont the shelf. went back on friday, not a 50 rnd box left.

last year for thanksgiving black friday sale, they were normally priced at 24.99 a brick. as of last wednesday they were 39.99 a brick.

i should've bought a few, not for hoarding, but for using in the upcoming year.
 
I didn't read through this whole thread so I'm not sure if anyone has brought up one other factor that may be fueling bulk ammo purchasing. It is the 5 cent per bullet tax proposed by some legislators. If you think it is expensive now just imagine paying an additional $50 per 1000 in tax. My thinking is if you can find it at reasonable prices, buy as much as you may need for a long, long, long time.
 
Okay, here's the definitive answer (explain ammo hoarding to me)
"I'm way more important than anyone else and when I see a retailer with ammo in stock I'm going to buy it all (way more than I need) because, as I said I'M WAY MORE IMPORTANT THAN YOU!"
Pretty much sums up the thinking of the hoarders.
These are the same people who cut you off in traffic because it's really important to them to be the first in line at the next stop light.
 
You can buy 223 around here anywhere for 450 a case of thousand. I can shoot a lot more 22lr for a lot less money, then 223. I bought 80,000 at the fin the day after sandy hook for 16.95 per 500. I am glad I did. I did not hoard it, I shot it. I can find it for 30 dollars around here per 500. It will be back down in the low 20's by Christmas. Maybe the first of the year.

But its simple math, if I have more ammo then you I can practice more than you can. If the economy collapsed it would be worth far more than gold. I would rather have a 22lr then A knife any day of the week in a fight.
 
If people would STOP PAYING 14CENTS / ROUND FOR GOLDEN BULLET, I think things would get back to normal!
 
Hoarding is what we do to create shortages..... ups the price of our holdings.....somewhat like the diamond industry,silver,gasoline.etc,etc....
 
Merlin O said:
The buyers or the sellers....?
Click to expand...

Being a small business owner, I understand leveraging market demand. As a consumer, I understand buying out of need. We can't make a blanket statement of saying consumers should stop buying at inflated prices, because for all we know, they have no choice.

Something interesting to consider.... When gas prices surged a while back, the big government stepped in and told the gas stations they can't do that to the consumer, so then the prices leveled and came back down-ish. The government will never do the same for ammo shortage, mainly because ammo is not a necessity, but also because they don't want us to have any.

I don't think people should be buying a brick at $30, and then selling it for $60, but I'm not going to shame them for doing so. I had a brick of Winchester that my gun didn't like, so I sold the brick for the amount I had into it, but I do not expect others to do the same, though I do wish they would.

No-one should be shamed for trying to make a buck, and I can't push my convictions on him for doing so... I just won't buy it from him.
 
I don't buy cheap bulk 22lr because I don't like the way it shoots, so I choose to spend a little more and purchase quality ammo. However, I am frequently seeing bulk 22 going for 35-40 bucks a brick online and sometimes less. If I had a desire to hoard that stuff or shoot it, I don't think there would be much trouble in finding as much as I wanted to purchase. I suppose that if the problem truly is hoarders, then eventually they will have put away a sufficient supply and then they won't need any more. I buy 4 or 5 bricks at a time and then shoot it. When I get down to one brick, I order more. Haven't had a bit of trouble keeping myself supplied this way. If I wanted Golden Bullets, I could walk into my local store and buy them off the shelf at 29 bucks per 525. There is definitely a shortage of certain brands, but that cheap stuff is out there to be had.
 
With another engineer, I built a kluge starter generator system to support the development of a commuter jet.
We ate lunch every day and argued about life.
In 2007 he made $1M in oil futures.
In 2008 he lost $0.5M in oil futures.

BrentWTI.jpg


He had an interesting way of looking at futures markets [ticket scalpers].

They take a small amount of energy from the system and in return give faster response and stability.

At that time we were designing snubbers into our power system that were loosing energy but giving in return lower noise... but at a million times per second.
 
xero, I understand everything you say because I already knew it. You also basically agreed with most of what I said in a more detailed way and language. Still, at the end of the day it was up to the buyer in a free country to make the decision to sign for such loans. If they were smart enough (about a 6 grade education would do), they would have seen that they could not afford it, and the banks would have had to eat all the money they invested to get those laws passed.

If a persons income is say, $3000.00 a month, then any dumbass would know that a $2000.00 mortgage is too much for them. But like you said, they ran to the offerings like sheep to a slaughter house.

We could go back and fourth all day about who to blame for what, but if everyone would take a little more responsibility for their mistakes, and demand the same from their representation, things would be a lot better in general. However it's much easier to just sit back and let someone else drive the car, and blame them if they took the wrong road while we snoozed in the passengers seat.

That will be the last thing I say about it because this has nothing to do with hoarding .22 ammo.
 
STR said:
DFOOSKING, I really enjoy most of your post. However, when you generalize about people, and say you don't care if it upsets them is messed up. First off, what's wrong with making money in a legal way. Capitalist means you can make all the money you want. That's part of what makes this country great. I don't buy to resale because I have a great paying job, but if I had the time, I would.
I support anyone who has a way to make money legally, and not having to depend on government subsidies. I must be one of those "Shit Bags" you're talking about.

The shit bags that created the housing problems weren't the banks. Dumbass!! That mess was created because irresponsible people accepted loans that they should have known they could not afford to pay long term. Banks just made the offerings, but didn't force anyone to sign and accept the loans. It's just easier to shift the blame to the banks because thats what irresponsible people do, just like credit card debt. I bet you voted for Obama, seeing how he's one that loves blaming everyone else for his mess ups.

I for one don't think the government should bail any business out. If they fail, and go bankrupt, another one will open in its place that will try harder. This would include banks. Bail outs aren't free. Someone is paying for them, and that someone is anyone who works and pays taxes.
Click to expand...

Gotta say I agree with you. Whilst I don't agree with a company that jacks up the prices to take advantage of a shortage of ammo (it's not like it's water or something), it is legal and it is my choice to not buy from them and even to forever strike them off of my list of suppliers in the future.
And you've nailed the housing crisis right where it deserves to be nailed.
I remember when I remortgaged a few years back (in the midst of the crisis). I'm lucky, I wasn't in fear of losing my house. But I remember sitting in front of my banker while she told me that if I used the equity in my home I could purchase another and rent it out and be making all this great income.
This was after we had just gone through my financials, and though I wasn't, as I said, in fear of losing my home...there wasn't that much left over at the end of every month.
I asked what happened if the place went unrented for a couple of months...was the bank going to be lenient on me for any missed payments.
You know for sure what the answer to that was.
A lot of people got into trouble because they didn't listen to that old saying...if it sounds to good to be true it probably is.
I partly blame the banker who is trying to make extra commission...but I equally blame the buyer who obviously can't afford what he is being sold.
 
ace of hearts said:
I would challenge some of the people in this thread to consider the .22 shortage from wider perspective than your individual perception that “I had the foresight to hoard .22 ammo, now those who did not are complaining”. This is a circular argument that only has veracity when looking at the very small microcosm of a single shooter. The argument is circular because the hoarding, which was the result of an unreasonable fear of the government mass banning ammo include .22, has caused the ammo shortage for which people are currently hoarding. I.E. your solution the problem (to get you personal stash) is also the cause of the problem for which you perceive the need to have a stash.

Here is the scenario

A faction of the government seeks to ban “assault weapons”; there is no mention of ammo banning of any form, and sporting weapons are specifically and publically excluded because they know that the public and NRA backlash would kill the bill instantly (I don’t deny certain senators etc. would happily ban anything that they can get away with, but the chance of them getting a .22 ban through is incredibly small)

Despite the fact that there is ZERO short term threat of a real .22 ban (no bill proposed), and minimal threat of a foreseeable future ban, a few radical paranoid shooter/survivalists scoop their Wallmart/Gander Mountain shopping baskets full of any ammo they can find. Because they can afford more .22s they empty the shelves. This was a severe overreaction to any actual threat.

Now there starts to be an Actual shortage and .22 ammo is hard to come by. Now the more moderate shooters perceive an actual shortage (while gun bans headlines still exists in the popular press) and start figuring that they need to get the ammo while they still can, thus the number of hoarder expands.

This situation feeds off itself. The more people who hoard, the worse the problem becomes. The worse the problem becomes the more people feel the need to hoard. It is a classic example of self perpetuating mob mentality.

Is it the end of world… no
Is it keeping me from shooting… no
Is it inane, irritating, and pointless… yes, yes, and yes

The chink in my argument, I will grant you is my assumption that .22s are at low risk of being federally banned. If you are one of the folks that believe .22s will be illegal in a few years then we will have to agree to disagree, and we will see in time who was right. Who knows the joke may be on me, I don’t have a crystal ball.

Posted with respect to all contributors to the thread/forum in the spirit of healthy rational debate.

P.S. To QuarterHorse who feels this is tripe because he started his .22 stash before before the political crisis, this is clearly not the case for the majority of people. .22 ammo was easy to find until the the proposed ban. Most of the hoarders clearly got in gear in response to the Assault weapon panic.
Click to expand...


All I can say is this post is completely off base regarding my situation. In my case, I laid in a whole lot of .22 ammunition to help teach people how to shoot. Most instructors I know feel that introducing people to shooting with a .22 is the best way to go. My problem was, and why I ended up with so much of it, long before ANY shortages took place, was the "students" had more important things to do than come out to the range and learn to shoot. This was shortly after Minnesota adopted their new CCW laws and the state became a "shall issue" as opposed to a "Top LE in your jurisdiction will decide". I did it because after watching a couple friends do the CC class and have 1/4 to 1/2 of their class not pass because they couldn't handle a firearm, I decided to teach basic handling skills. I bought the ammo and included it in what I charged for the classes. I left it open to the people who paid, when they wanted to show up. I heard, "got a date tonight" (6 women), "forgot that was tonight", "why don't you come down to the bar and meet my friends". ...In general a lot more talk than action.

As far as the "capitalists" (gougers if you will), I have no problem gouging their beady little eyes out. Doing everything they can to create a panic then buying all they can to make a profit off of it. One guy said it's a "stupid tax" for those who aren't prepared. Really? Is everybody supposed to pay a stupid tax for those who create havoc?

In spite of all this here's the real reason there is a shortage. In the midst of two conflicts, the U.S. Gov't decided it was necessary to procure more of what we use for the military, i.e. cartridges. Due to the current manufacturing capacity, other production lines were cut down or even temporarily halted. Fast forward a few years and one President Obama decided Law enforcement needed to be prepared five years ahead of time, instead of just annually. This created even more restrictions and temporarily halted production lines. Production was pretty much transferred to military and law enforcement.

Going back to my first paragraph. One big reason there is a shortage is that people who SHOULD NORMALLY BUY, WERE NOT BUYING. If there is a lack of consumption, there will be a lack of production. Too many times I had students not show up for the game. All too often I'm thinking anyone who would shoot, did not purchase and use .22 ammo. Otherwise, production would not have been switched away from it. I don't like the gougers, but a lot of people who wish they had .22 ammo (or other types) are to blame as well as they did not consume it off the shelves when it was available, thereby triggering continued production.
 
I always load up on anything we use a lot of when I find a deal. When my kids were home I bought 300 rolls of paper towels because they were less than 1/2 price & gone in 6 months. 2100 rounds of Federal HVs with a new 50 ammo can for $99? Wish I could buy 100 more.:cool:
 
DFOOSKING said:
What's the number of teaspoons of baby food before its no longer considered starving a baby?

But seriously, the number is 47.
Click to expand...

damm i'm a horder i got 7 boxes of center x left.
my 2 son's an one of there friends just shot up 500 rd of cci stand,
sorry defoo could not stop LMAO on how quick you said 47rd

side note becarful of the nonshooters flipping ammo, see all the time at local gun shop,
now that we know them, an what they are up to, we will no longer sell to them
 
duotone said:
Being a small business owner, I understand leveraging market demand. As a consumer, I understand buying out of need. We can't make a blanket statement of saying consumers should stop buying at inflated prices, because for all we know, they have no choice.

Something interesting to consider.... When gas prices surged a while back, the big government stepped in and told the gas stations they can't do that to the consumer, so then the prices leveled and came back down-ish. The government will never do the same for ammo shortage, mainly because ammo is not a necessity, but also because they don't want us to have any.

I don't think people should be buying a brick at $30, and then selling it for $60, but I'm not going to shame them for doing so. I had a brick of Winchester that my gun didn't like, so I sold the brick for the amount I had into it, but I do not expect others to do the same, though I do wish they would.

No-one should be shamed for trying to make a buck, and I can't push my convictions on him for doing so... I just won't buy it from him.
Click to expand...

Anybody who makes a buck by creating the problem then exorbitantly profiting off of it needs to be shamed. Shamed in a harsh way. I have no problem using my 1st Amendment rights to hammer those jackasses.
 
No One is hoarding the .17HMR . shelves are packed full . Shows just the growing popularity of that Rim. Cal .
went by a couple retail sales today & there is shelves 0f, 9mm 40 45 also with .223 and others & No Shortage of Shotgun . Picked up a couple of Lb's of Tightgroup this week also @ 17-$ each and saw a few Lb.s H335 and other Hodgons also .
.
 
I have heard that California is going to ban lead in the year 2018. Any truth to this?
 
Yes, they are banning all lead hunting ammunition. I went down to the LGS and picked up a box of 30-30 and it cost me 38 bucks because it is lead free hunting ammo. Apparently some condor ate some lead from animal kills that hunters did not locate and they claim the condors are getting lead poisoning so that does it for lead...

Will begin in July 2019. The info states "The measure expands an earlier ban on lead hunting ammunition in California condor habitat. The new law covers all wildlife, including "game mammals, game birds, nongame birds and nongame mammals" such as coyotes."
 
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I can see how hoarding is affecting 22lr availability, but WTH is going on with rifle brass?
Every shop that normally carried brass (Remington, Federal, Winchester, etc.) is just shelves of empty.
I haven't been able to find 300WM in almost a year.
 
I saw a bag of Remington 300WM at the local bass pro a few weeks ago, I doubt it is still there. Midway has all of their 300WM brass as "overdue" so it should be showing up soon.
 
Some of those "collections" are just nuts. No wonder nobody can get any.

Hell I haven't shot my rifles in a few months now. Really sucks as I have my sparrow now and maybe 200 rounds through it if I am lucky!

Really don't have a problem with people buying ammo.....that is if they are going to shoot the stuff! Makes no sense to buy it and just sit on it, kind of like buying a car and putting it away in hopes that you will make a load of money on it. How much will it be worth if EVERYONE has some....nothing. Go shoot the damn stuff or stop buying like pack rats and let some other people get some.
 
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