I have a savage model 11 in .204 ruger. I have been having issues with the gun feeding hollow point bullets. When you chamber a hollow point in the gun, it chambers really tough and it will push the bullet down into the casing. If never fired the gun when the bullet is pushed down into the case so I dont know exactly what it would do. I have a pretty good idea (blow up the gun due to increased pressures). I called Savage yesterday and spoke to one of their amazing attitude customer service reps (sarcasm). I was told by him the model 11 in both .204 and 223 will not feed hollow point bullets. I asked him if this is stated in the owners manual or on their website, he said "no". He went on to say I should only shoot FMJ or ballistic tipped bullets out of the gun. Im not positive, but I think it is illegal to hunt with FMJ bullets in my state (KS). I like hollow point bullets because they do not exit and they dont leave big holes in the hides. Soooooo, I asked the rep "how many phone calls/month do you receive regarding this issue with this model/month on avg?" He proceeded to tell me "2-3 calls/month". I then asked him "if you all know this is an issue with this gun and the two calibers, why isnt it stated in the owners manual, website....etc?". He said "Im sorry sir theres nothing we can do about it". I then asked him "If i were to shoot the gun with the bullet pressed down into the case like it is, what do you think it would do?". He said "the gun is designed to blow out the bottom if it were to blow up"........real reassuring let me tell ya. I then asked him "is this phone call being recorded?", he said "yes". I said "ok, now that you've admitted that savage knows this is an issue, and if I were to shoot the gun with you knowing it is faulty, isnt that a huge liability on your behalf?". He said "yes you are correct, but there is nothing we can do". I then said "ok, so if I shoot it and it blows up, I can sew you and I'll own the company afterwards, is that ok with ya?". He said "Im sorry sir, theres nothing we can do". After a little bit more back and forth, he offered to send a shipping label to send the gun back to them and have them look at it. I dont know if its just me, but I dont have any use for the gun now and damn sure will never buy a junk savage ever again. Its obvious they know theres something wrong with the rifles and are willing to accept it and take the liability knowing this. I dont know what to do with it besides chunk it over a bridge because I DO NOT want to sell it someone and have them hurt themselves with it.
- Thread starter yotekiller48
- Start date
That is quite odd. Normally my interactions with the Savage team (limited though they may be) have been professional and nice. I have never really had an issue with the rifles themselves. As for what to do with the rifle, keep it as a donor action, and if you're sold on the 204 caliber, bring it to a smith for a rebarrel into a 204 chamber which will take your desired bullets.
I'm amazed at their attitude. They should be ashamed! I'm with you, I certainly would not buy another Savage!
The fanboy bandwagon is on its way!
This sounds both odd and terrible. Of course, now that you know the problem if you shoot the gun and it blows up and you use their lawyer has good grounds for a contributory/comparative negligence argument. Anyone not so directly informed however could have quite a case.
Ill never shoot the gun again. However, if this post informs just 1 person of the "known issue" with the model 11 and calibers with the issue, then I've done my good deed.
What exactly is the hp catching on that pushes the bullet in, feedramp or rim of chamber? Or is the freebore just short and pushing bullets deeper in the case? Handloads or factory, if handloads increase nk tension or start at a lower charge and seat bullets deeper.
I'm a gun snob, so....
Ive tried both winchester and remington 34 grain hollow points. These are factory rounds. I also went on both winchester and remingtons website to see if I, by chance, got a bad batch of ammo and they had recalled them...etc. That was not the case. The bullet is catching on the feed ramp. If someone wants to PM me their email address, I will email pics of the bullets to them. The bullets are so far pressed down into the case, I can hold the case and spin the bullet freely inside the case (while powder is falling out of the case). It looks like the magazine is not seated high enuff therefore the bullet (while chambering) is dragging a long ways up the ramp.
Its almost like nobody has ever reported magazine/feeding issues with R700s before....
OP, sounds like you have diagnosed your rifle as a magazine issue. What exact model is your rifle, and is it a DBM or blind magazine model?
I completely agree that a Savage rep shouldn't have said what they said to you on the phone (ie. "tough shit") and that your rifle should arrive working properly with commercial ammunition...but the 'fix' might be as simple as disassembling/reassembling the barreled action and stock or having Savage send you a new magazine. Calling Savage back and getting a CS manager on the phone would likely lead to a new magazine or an RMA.
Or, I'll buy the piece of shit from you for $200 shipped.
OP, sounds like you have diagnosed your rifle as a magazine issue. What exact model is your rifle, and is it a DBM or blind magazine model?
I completely agree that a Savage rep shouldn't have said what they said to you on the phone (ie. "tough shit") and that your rifle should arrive working properly with commercial ammunition...but the 'fix' might be as simple as disassembling/reassembling the barreled action and stock or having Savage send you a new magazine. Calling Savage back and getting a CS manager on the phone would likely lead to a new magazine or an RMA.
Or, I'll buy the piece of shit from you for $200 shipped.
Were I in that customer service rep's position, I would curtly dismiss any noisy, unhappy customer that threatens to sue as a means of conflict resolution over a $300 rifle. I would not want those people as customers. Ever. It's people like you that have formed the environment where the manufacturers aren't willing to help anyone for fear of being sued. To them it's not worth it.
I'd suggest you start looking into taking the matter into you own hands to make it feed properly with your pet cartridge. If you don't think you can do it yourself then perhaps discuss the matter with a local gunsmith. You might not start that conversation off with how you like to sue over trivialities.
2¢
After reading about savage not standing behind their threaded barrel models being threaded concentric to the bore and my buddies 338LM having the scope threads threaded off center it would be real hard for me to buy a savage. The only one I'd consider is their LRP line and have the bsrrel threaded myself. It definitely seems from stories here lately that their QC is terrible and their CS is lacking as well. Seems to be a buyer beware day and age now.
The cartridge hes talking about is far from a "pet" load for the 204. If savage makes a gun that cant shoot one of the most popular loads for that cartridge it should clearly be stated. That'd be like a 308 not being able to shoot 168s and 175s. While agree the suing thing was a retarded comment savage should make a gun that can shoot the common loads for that cartridge.
Theres always a dbag like urself who will take it to the xtreme and poke and prod at everything someone says. Move on and good day to you sir. You sound like a "gunshow 3000 yd world class weekend warrior". You've done it bigger and better than anyone else and certainly know it all.
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1slow01Z71, I concur, Im not suing anyone but it is a possibility if someone shoots a hollow point and the gun blows up. Savage is putting themselves in the line of fire for not posting this somewhere....etc.
If someone would like to see pics, I will gladly email them to you so you can see the cartridge and post the pic up on here.
Guess i haven't heard about those issues 1slow, thought that was Remington that had threads off kilter and crooked lugs. Yeah they're some fanboys here redneck, but they like a scope that starts with the letter v. I would say it must be mag related. The savage feedramp is pretty flat and long compared to a 700. I never could get a 700 to feed 6 br 50%, but my savage was quite easy to get 100% with factory or AI. The CS rep sure sounded pretty cavalier about it all. I have been in ur shoes before about several items, after i cooled off and analyse what actually was said i realize that maybe i blew my top some also.
I asked the rep if it was possible to modify the stock to seat the mag up higher and he responded with "no". Now whether that is correct or not, I dont know because I am not a gunsmith. The rep's attitude was crappy from the start. I was explaining what the issue was...offered to send pics, the cartridges, videos...etc and he was not interested. Im sure he was reading a script off the computer. I never raised my voice at him, I was asking straight forward questions and not trying to trick him into saying anything that was not true/known.
I never bothered with a 204 but the few people i know that shoot them use 39 gr bking or vmax of some weight. I guess a few used Berger. Is the feed lips not releasing the case soon enough to keep the nose from jackhammering the feedramp? Is this a internal or dbm rifle? How much setback are we talking? I had 308 ar10 that experienced no setback by the last rd in 20 pmag that had right at .001 nk tension.
$252!
Best thing to do is just sell it and move on. Not worth the stress dude.
Best thing to do is just sell it and move on. Not worth the stress dude.
Assuming this is a dbm savage... The feedlips are a spring steel that actually let the case squeeze them out as the cartridge starts to feed into the lug recess area. If for some reason the feedlips remain rigid then i can see the tip ramming straight into the ramp. I got some factory dbm i don't use that u could have but they are 243/6.5cm.
This is a detachable mag. I have not tried a different mag due to the fact they are expensive and if Im not going to use the gun, I dont want to spend any money on it. The mag I have is the factory mag. Since Savage knows this is an issue, I think they should state on their website, owners manual...etc this gun will not feed hollow points or FMJ and ballistic tip bullets should only be used....etc. Just something to let the consumer know.
Danco, you are correct. I dont know how to go about it though. I guess I could have my attorney draw up a contract or something stating to the buyer the issue with it and Im not liable for anything and you have been notified. I just dont want this to come back on me for some reason. I would feel terrible if a dad bought the gun for his son and the gun blew up in his face and hurt him. I dont want that to happen to anyone for that matter.
Your overthinking this. Attorneys are useless. The rifle feeds and shoots FMJ and ballistic tips just fine. It just don't feed hollow points. List it on Armslist or better yet Savage Shooters Forum and it will be gone in no time. If you feel you need to disclose something then just tell the buyer you found it does not reliably feed your preferred HB bullets. Enough said. IMO the reason it does not feed them well is because of the flat faced barrel and the floating bolt. There is no real feedramp in a Savage action. It relies on the magazine to properly lift the bullet high enough to feed into the chamber. If the hollow point is too big it will catch on the barrel face. To me it's a small price to pay for the inherent accuracy and modularity of the Savage rifle system. Have you tried just bending up the magazine lips in the forward section? This may time your bullet just enough to feed right.
If that don't work or you just want to be done with it just sell it and move on. You have no liability issues because Savage says there is nothing wrong with your rifle...and there probably is not.
BTW: I believe all companies have at minimum one DORK who answers the phone and does more damage to the company than the rest combined. I've caught them many times at even the best companies. Sadly you got the one at Savage that day.
If that don't work or you just want to be done with it just sell it and move on. You have no liability issues because Savage says there is nothing wrong with your rifle...and there probably is not.
BTW: I believe all companies have at minimum one DORK who answers the phone and does more damage to the company than the rest combined. I've caught them many times at even the best companies. Sadly you got the one at Savage that day.
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$253.
Seriously - CALL SAVAGE AGAIN, get a customer service manager on the phone, explain the issue and have them send you a replacement magazine.
Seriously - CALL SAVAGE AGAIN, get a customer service manager on the phone, explain the issue and have them send you a replacement magazine.
I'll buy your rifle from you if you're not interested in keeping it. Pm me with a cannot pass up offer
Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk
Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk
I guess I'm just one of those oldtimers that has adjusted feed lips on mags and polished feed ramps so long I don't even bother the manufacturer when encountering a problem like this.
Invest in a pair of pliers like these. The jaws are urethane lined and are parallel action meaning that no matter how thick or thin the material you grip the jaws stay parallel and don't leave "dig" marks at the tip
They come in handy for just about any sheet metal magazine that can get dropped and the feed lips bent.
Adjust the lips so the bullet tip is allowed to rise a little higher when the bolt is retracted and when the bolt moves forward the tip doesn't nail the feed ramp.
Maun Flat-Nose Urethane-Lined Parallel-Action Pliers
This all assumes of course you like the rifle to fix the problem. Obviously Savage isn't all that interested.
Invest in a pair of pliers like these. The jaws are urethane lined and are parallel action meaning that no matter how thick or thin the material you grip the jaws stay parallel and don't leave "dig" marks at the tip
They come in handy for just about any sheet metal magazine that can get dropped and the feed lips bent.
Adjust the lips so the bullet tip is allowed to rise a little higher when the bolt is retracted and when the bolt moves forward the tip doesn't nail the feed ramp.
Maun Flat-Nose Urethane-Lined Parallel-Action Pliers
This all assumes of course you like the rifle to fix the problem. Obviously Savage isn't all that interested.
Yeah, it does have a feedramp. It's that ramp that is behind the lower lug recess. All mine have a brass/copper streaks on them from guiding the bullet nose up and into the chamber. Must be a 204/savage issue, 6 br is notorious for not feeding do to the short fat body and sharp shoulder. I never had issue with tip hang up except on the recessed bolt nose area on a 700.
a) It ain't going to "blow up" unless you obstruct the barrel.
b) If particular factory ammo doesn't work in your rifle - find one that DOES.
c) You CAN single load if you are so attached to that particular ammo.
d) You can bend the magazine lips and the let the cartridge "pop" right into the chamber.
e) It's for the children ....
b) If particular factory ammo doesn't work in your rifle - find one that DOES.
c) You CAN single load if you are so attached to that particular ammo.
d) You can bend the magazine lips and the let the cartridge "pop" right into the chamber.
e) It's for the children ....
Savage arms....Ill never own another savage!
Been saying that for years, Fucking JUNK!
Been saying that for years, Fucking JUNK!
Not a company out there that does not put out a lemon, man I used to work for purchased a prevost h3 motor home new, msrp was 1.9 million, nothing but trouble. AC did not work and they argued with him over it, marble tiles came up, nothing but trouble. Been back to the factory three times for long periods of time.
I own several savages, several remingtons, couple of custom guns and they all can need work from time to time. Sounds like you got a human being on a bad day at savage. Try again, or get rid of it and move on. Both are clear options.
I own several savages, several remingtons, couple of custom guns and they all can need work from time to time. Sounds like you got a human being on a bad day at savage. Try again, or get rid of it and move on. Both are clear options.
A) if the bullet jams all the way down in the case it sure as shit can.
B) a factory rifle should feed factory ammo regardless of the bullet design.
C) see above
D) bending the feed lips with as little as they hold a skinny round like 204 is going to cause more issues. Not to mention you shouldn't have to do this.
E) well when a nerf gun runs more reliable...
Precision lost when using suppressor
Shit happens and bad guns make it out the door but it seems Savage does not care at all about standing behind their product or figuring out why its not working properly. My buddy ran out of windage on his 111 338lm which savage did fix but that seems like something very elementary that shouldve been caught.
After a little bit more back and forth, he offered to send a shipping label to send the gun back to them and have them look at it.
This is what I would do with this gun. Relives you of any Liability if and when you sell the gun after it comes back from the factory.
This is what I would do with this gun. Relives you of any Liability if and when you sell the gun after it comes back from the factory.
I guess the part that amazes me is that all this bitching about a simple to fix issue.
I bought a longrange hunter and couldn't get better than 6MOA out of it. Savage gave no fucks. "We don't have an accuracy guarantee" they told me and said it was probably the scope or ammo (which I tried several of). The dealer took it back with a restocking fee and sent it back to savage.
I bought 3-4 17HMR's trying to get a shooter after everybody talked them up and couldn't get one to shoot better than 2MOA with 10 different types of ammo. Savage said that's acceptable accuracy.
I did have a few 10 and 110's in 308 and they shot ok (MOA) but fed like shit, especially the blind mag models and the actions would bind up as bad as a ruger.
Maybe they'll jack up their prices and sell turds with great warranties.
I had the manufacturer of 1500.00 1911 tell me they were designed to only feed 230 ball that was loaded to x.xx" length. So a 300 dollar rifle won't feed cheap walmart ammo, stop the fuckin press. Try single loading them, shit might just shoot3 moa anyway. The only factory rifle i will buy is tikka or my fn a3g. I have sent back 3 Remington that had egg shaped chambers, and had an aac-sd that shot 1 moa and a 5r that couldn't hold 1.5. Yep my savages get rebarreled cause i want a 260 or fast twist 243, my remingtons got rebarreled cause they couldn't hit the side of a barn from inside. Hey gorski, i haven't got my daily fix of ur 6 creed pics lol.
Savages always have to be compared to another cheap commercially produced rifles to make them seem a little less bad than they actually are.
FWIW though, I've personally owned over 50 Remington's and had to send exactly one back and it was for tight headspace. Every other one has been problem free, thats better than I can say for my savage track record. I've had one that was a decent rifle and it still want perfect. I do have one Remington that the jury is still out on but I'm pretty confident I had a bad batch of ammo. If I can't get it to shoot it will be the first one I've had that didn't shoot lights out.
FWIW though, I've personally owned over 50 Remington's and had to send exactly one back and it was for tight headspace. Every other one has been problem free, thats better than I can say for my savage track record. I've had one that was a decent rifle and it still want perfect. I do have one Remington that the jury is still out on but I'm pretty confident I had a bad batch of ammo. If I can't get it to shoot it will be the first one I've had that didn't shoot lights out.
Threads like this prove one thing:
Internet gun forums LOVE them some confirmation bias.
Internet gun forums LOVE them some confirmation bias.
A) I don't think you know what you talking about. Give me one example of failed Savage receiver. You can pressure weld the case to the chamber .... it ain't going to blow up. They were blowing up those smokeless muzzleloaders left and right and receivers never budged.
B) No-one ever made a ridicules claim like that. And I promise, the higher end the guns you get - the narrow window of "working" ammo you get.
C/D/E) Well it's not a nerf gun. I don't know if it is sad or funny, that grown-ass men have to reminded that GUN IS NOT A TOY?
Holy shit! I think I would have given up after one.
Lets just degrade this right into a Remington 700 vs Savage debate.
Did child services get an exact count of how many times you were dropped on your head? Have you considered shock therapy?
A) Savage receivers aren't bomb proof and the bullet being pressed down in the case certainly can cause a kaboom. Why do you think they tell you not to chamber a round in an AR more than once regardless of a crimp? Because it gets pushed back in the case and blows the fucking gun up genius. A kaboom is a kaboom whether it makes the gun unrecognizable or cracks a bolt or extractor. If you think a savage is so indestructible you can have a catastrophic over pressure and chamber another round then you live in some special kind of fairy tale land.
B) Show me these high end guns that have bullet issues? I'd like to seem them. With the exception of some polished turds 99% of the rifles that you pay a premium for one of the things you're paying for is reliability. I wouldn't expect you to know that though because you probably have exactly zero experience with high end rifles.
C/D/E) Nobody ever said a gun was a toy. Did the head trauma cause a reading disorder too?
$254 and i'll turn it into a 20 vartag
Oh, hell yeah, another big bad keyboard warrior.
If you can't make an intelligent argument - go for the insults!
Been there, done that, got a T-shirt. You aren't going to drag me down to your scumbag level.
Welcome to my ignore list.
I can only assume you're a sedentary, Xbox playing puss that needs someone to hold his hand to get something done. I've got two hands and half a brain cell and can fix the junk the factory makes so I don't have to call mommy and have her take care of it for me.
Go back to your couch and pout.
Good day to you too.
George Carlin said:
The OP has sent me some pics of the rounds stuff back in the case. I'll post them later when I get closer to a PC.
Thank you!
Thank you!
