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acceptable accuracy for long range

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ProCharger

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Minuteman
Jun 30, 2013
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I recently bought a rifle to have fun shooting some distance. I am very green shooting longer ranges and currently do not reload. The rifle shoots pretty well at 100 yards but I did not have a chrono to check velocity to enter correct data into a ballistics program, no big deal, just back up and shoot with a guess on velocity then adjust the velocity accordingly to the drop to get the correct dope. Well I set up at 704 yards, entered my guess on velocity and was about 2 feet high. No problem there since I can just dial down BUT I was getting 3 shot groups with a vertical spread of about 14-16". Horizontal or windage spread was maybe 3" and I was pleased with that but the vertical stringing that far to me was unacceptable...roughly 2+ moa.

Now for the hard part.....what am I doing wrong? I am 99% sure it is me and not the rifle being from a bench at 100 the rifle performs fairly well. The rifle is a Rem 700 sps tac aac 20", I was using FGMM 168's. I was shooting prone which I rarely do, using a bipod and using a coat under the rear for a rest. I am laying the rifle down, crawling in behind it and sliding it into my shoulder. I feel I am getting a consistent cheek weld and sight picture looks good. Does this vertical stringing sound like a technique problem, breathing, etc? One other thing I did notice if I did not have enough pressure on the stock to my shoulder I could easily notice my heartbeat moving the reticle vertically. I don't have the funds to do a class or that is where I would start so anything you can give me to check/ work on I would really appreciate it. Being green as I am I figured I could learn a lot from this post without wasting any more ammo.

Thanks.
 
Im no expert but with vertical stringing like that it sounds like you might not be properly loading the bipod. Also if you still have the tubberware stock on the aac it might need some reinforcement.
 
Someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe you are at the outer limits of the 168. Couple that with the short barrel, and I think your bullet is starting to do funky stuff at that distance. Shoot it at 500 and I bet you get better results with the 168. Move up to the 175's for the longer ranges is what I have read. I shoot 155 scenars at 2950 and they do pretty well at 1000, but then again that is what they are designed for.
 
OK, vertical stringing is your problem, it sound like breathing or heart.

Id suggest first getting a good rear bag either buying or making easy to do either way. You rifle and ammo should be plenty capable of better.
I would make sure your not flexing your stock onto your barrel with the houge stock.
Then I would adjust your bipod up or down to the best height you can shoot from with your rear bag.
Then practice a lot dry firing and checking your POA move as you do, calling shots.
Learn to make good positions and support.
Learn proper trigger control and breathing.

Last and not least. 168 SMKs might not be doing good at 750 yards out of the 20" bbl.
I would think they would do better but maybe going out with several big paper/cardboard targets and trying your odds again at like 600 yards multiple times to see correct average.

Also check your scope parallax and stay consistent with your scope, grip, positions,etc...

Good luck and check back in here
 
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I agree with the 175's as that's mostly what I use and I love em.

I like the 168 AMAX too though.
 
20131106_214249_zps73503142.jpg


Thats the rifle in question. I am even more confused now than I was before dealing with the ammo choice. Using 2575 fps with the 168 my table is showing I should have 1366 fps at 700, 1236 fps at 800 and 1114 fps at 900. I am fairly certain 2575 at the muzzle is on the low side as that called for 6.95 mils. I was getting between 6.2-6.4 so I should be well above 2575fps. Would 1350 fps be too slow and start to show problems? Using my actual drop from the lowest strike I would have around 2665 fps at the muzzle which would put me at 1426 fps at 700 yards, 1293 at 800, and 1167 at 900.

You might be onto something with the proper loading of the bipod. I was shooting from my gravel drive which is more like frozen concrete at the moment, closer to frozen dirt really and I really did not pay too much attention to the bipod. Good chance I was not loading it at all and with my skill level it would probably be better if I use a mat that can lock the legs in before I try to master concrete/frozen dirt. It was starting to get dark so I was rushing. Also what would be the proper breathing in reguards to the trigger pull.

Thanks for your quick replies!
 
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I'm just stating that the 168 smk was not designed to be a long range round. Mine shoots 168 great out to 500. It then starts loosing ground to the 175's and 155's rapidly. Don't know why, but it does. A lot of people I know don't waste their time with the 168 smks for long range shooting. If you don't believe me, get one of Litz's books and read it. Your head will hurt from all of the info, but the question will be answered.
 
My bet is either rear rest issue, breathing,or possible anticipation of trigger break. Yep 168 smk aren't the best at ranges exceeding600, or that was the range those bullets were designed for. Having said that.. i have taken 168 smk out to 950 yds with a 20" 308. This was in 60* temp and 380' asl, i think my mv was 2670. The main difference between168&175 is the boattail. 168 just goes wonky at or near transonic. 175 is more predictable at transonic. I prefer 155s anymore, loaded to 2900+, they are wicked.
 
600yds is my limit with 168's. I personally don't know much about it, but on this site I,ve read about 1000 times that the 168's start become unstable at about 800yds. So 600 is all I would try to do with them. Also on this site about 1000 times I've read if you want to go beyond 600 say up to 1000, then the 155's or 175's would be a better choice.
 
Nice rifle and Razor HD scope for a starter rifle. You need SMK 175 gr. BTHP and a steady rear bag for that distance. Then if you're off too much at that distance, you'll know for sure it's you and not the rifle or ammo. Just do it and you should be pleased.
 
Looking at your rig your stock is not in question when you said your had the SPS 20". You got good equipment and that helps. Scope is great as well.

Again, yeah learn about breathing and trigger control, your probably on the right path.
Always check your position before shooting and make sure its right, if its not, break position and get one that's right.
Use your rear support, make it rock solid.

Start keeping a DATA book, but first learn to call your shots, if the rifles is proven at 100 yards then go anywhere from 100 to 300 yards with someone spotting for you and learn to call your shots.
Let the spotter have the book, focus on the reticle, when your shot breaks, don't look for the impact, just tell your spotter where on the target your crosshairs were. He will then plot that as well as the impact he sees. Then, after so many shots you can see how they compare, but your learning how to call your shots. You will see if you are flinching or not with this.

Practice that at ranges that are far enough to spot your errors but not so far that the load or wind and mirage is your enemies.
Maybe your trigger can use a tune up that any smith can provide. Some of my factory XMARK triggers break awesome and some suck. I like the triggers, I now have em in most of my customs.
Take your time and make sure everything is right when you get ready to shoot.

Things will start to come together.
Good luck and keep us posted

You got a nice rifle/optic

Yes, the 168 SMK isn't the greatest choice but I think a lot of people think worst case when shooting that bullet. It should still be predictable I would think.
The smallest 600yard paper group I have EVER seen was shot with 168 SMKS by my dad out of my savage. This was at a benchrest match I put him up at with a 308 with old loads I wasn't shooting. The 168 smk hasn't ever proven to me that 700 yards is impossible. Yes the 20" might have it borderline but who knows. OP go to Walmart and in the sewing sevtion there are big pieces of cardboard with 1" squares covering it. I use them to measure POA/POI. You can set up your shot again and look for oblong holes which indicate keyholing. If your getting that then yeah, you've gone too far. But at this point in the game, I would look elsewhere first. You cant expect a new shooter to have great results if they are shooting unguided. I suggest finding a local guy that can help you out. Or taking a class

OP is this your first time shooting LR? And where are you out of?
 
Thats a great looking rifle and lowlight has a very good video you can watch on you tube on loading the bipod and maintaing a proper shooting position if your rifle isnt staying on target at that distance ( meaning you cant follow your shots in the scope after each shot) you probably need to work on loading and position. Properly loading the bipod significantly increased my accuracy. The 168's probably are not ideal for that distane at that velocity but I still wouldnt think you would be seeing a 14" to 16" of vertical stringing. I shoot 168's but there closer to 2750 fps.
 
I've had Federal Gold Medal 168's doing okay up to 800 yds, got a little iffy at 900, and at 1000 they were sub sonic and keyholeing the targets. 175's solved that problem right up.

How was your sight picture after the shot? Where did the reticle stop at?

You may want to consider the Dot Drill to work on the Fundamentals and build on what's been suggested above. Good stuff up there.
 
If 700-800 is as far as you are going to shoot, 168's are going to be fine. They will even go a bit further but you are pushing it. I'm not going to give you shooting lessons, but you really have to be doing everything right to put up a nice group at 700 yds. Practice shooting @ something smaller like a 4-6 inch plate. You are doing good if you are new to this. Get yourself into a scoped rifle course from a good instructor. I don't know where you live but I highly recommend Grant LaVelle & Jake Moore @ Maximum Life Expectancy in Joplin Mo. Maximum Life Expectancy LLC They are both highly accomplished shooters and great instructors.
 
If you can't afford to take a class join the online training on this site. It's pretty hard to beat for $10.00 /month.
 
I've seen a guy next to me hit 12" targets as far as 1050 yds with a 168 SMK. They are not my choice for any distance shooting, but they are capable at distance. Now consider this: you are shooting FGMM. What if I told you that the ES on that ammo is not very tight at all? I measured some a while back; ES was close to 40. It most certainly be your shooting technique that is responsible, but just know that FGMM is not all that great velocity wise.
 
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