Need help on Gessiele trigger

[vrakes]

I have a new AR15 in 6.5 Grendel and love it. Shot a .448 3 shot group in fairly breezy conditions at 100 yards. Problem is I have the Gessiele SSA trigger, and the second stage is too long and slightly mushy and is not adjustable. I will use the rifle for coyotes/deer, and would prefer a second stage trigger that breaks sharply, and has a faster return. I am not planning on using the gun for rapid fire. I would prefer a fully adjustable first AND second stage trigger.
Any suggestions?
Also, I understand that the 6.5 Grendel in AR's does NOT show pressure signs as a normal bolt gun does, and do NOT want to break a bolt in building a load with decent speed. Anyone have suggestions as to how to be sure I don't break a bolt? I am currently WELL under recommended load amounts for the powder and bullets I am using.
Thanks in advance

 

[Zebra644]

A Gessiele with a mushy 2nd stage? That's a first I have the same trigger in one of my rigs and is totally good to go. I'd make a phone call and see what he will do for you.

 

[Layton]

Their DMR trigger is adjustable on both stages.

L

 

[FN in MT]

A Gessiele with a mushy 2nd stage? That's a first I have the same trigger in one of my rigs and is totally good to go. I'd make a phone call and see what he will do for you.

My reply as well. I have two and have installed two more...ALL of them very shootable and crisp.

 

[Scoby]

Contact Gessiele.
I imagine Bill Gessiele to be the type that wouldn't sleep at night if he knew one on this triggers, especially a SSA, was "mushy".
He'll replace it if that's so.

 

[vrakes]

Thanks guys, will contact him and check on my SSA and the DMR trigger.

 

[KUSA]

The high speed match is absolutely awesome. It is so crisp and predictable. Just make sure you adjust it per the instructions. You will be happy with it.

 

[8541recon]

SSA-E is a good option....but I haven't used a SSA that was mushy at all, something must be up.

 

[Thumper580]

I have a DMR and it's wonderful. Takes alittle time to set it up but the second stage is great. Has no perceptible travel and is super crisp.

 

[ORD]

The advice to contact Bill is the best thing to do. I have used many Geissele triggers over the last several years and have NEVER felt an SSA with anything that could be described as a "mushy" or lengthy second stage pull. Depending on what Bill says, you can go from there.

For a non-adjustable trigger, the SSA-E and the SD-E are the finest options on the market today IMHO. If its almost infinite adjustability you want without sacrificing safety/reliability/etc., then then Geissele HS NM/DMR trigger is the cat's meow.

 

[vrakes]

OK went by a gunsmith who specializes somewhat in AR's, he wanted to know if I had applied the grease that came with the trigger. HUH??!! I didn't put it together so knew nothing about grease!! He proceeded to apply some on the trigger in the proper places, and it made the pull smoother (Remember I've only put about 25 rounds through the AR). H e also said that it would take about 100 rounds for the trigger to "smooth out" so will wait a little longer before I contact Mr. Geissele.
Thanks to all who have helped. Sounds like the DMR or National Match is the way to go, though. Are they exponentially higher price wise than the SSA?

 

[ORD]

OK went by a gunsmith who specializes somewhat in AR's, he wanted to know if I had applied the grease that came with the trigger. HUH??!! I didn't put it together so knew nothing about grease!! He proceeded to apply some on the trigger in the proper places, and it made the pull smoother (Remember I've only put about 25 rounds through the AR). H e also said that it would take about 100 rounds for the trigger to "smooth out" so will wait a little longer before I contact Mr. Geissele.
Thanks to all who have helped. Sounds like the DMR or National Match is the way to go, though. Are they exponentially higher price wise than the SSA?

Proper lube on the trigger per Geissele's instructions is obviously the way to go, but a lack of (or inadequate) lubrication still doesn't explain "mushy" or "lengthy" trigger pull. By all means, get it lubed up and get out to the range with it and see if it better meets your expectations, but as for "breaking in" a Geissele trigger...never necessary in my experience with them.

As for the price of the HS NM/DMR trigger...they cost about 25% more than your basic SSA, but they are worth it for a precision-minded AR where an adjustable trigger is desired/needed. You should be able to find one brand new for around the $250 mark. Midway and like companies generally have them in stock and they can be purchased using applicable discounts to help a little on the price. Not sure if any Hide vendors are carrying/stocking Geissele triggers, but you might check with Greg at Tractus here on the Hide and see what he can do for you on one when you get ready to (PUN INTENDED) pull the trigger.

 

[lifebreath]

I'm a confessed Geissele junkie. SSA on two AR's, SSA-E on one, SSF on one and National Match Match on my competition rifle. I would never use the word "mushy" to describe any of them, even out of the box. Geissele triggers are know for being crisp. I'd call Bill and get his take.

Regarding the National Match, it's awesome and fully adjustable.

Here's a video I made one night attempting to show the characteristics of various two-stage triggers including Geissele SSA, SSA-E, National Match Match and Knights Armament 2-stage.

AR-15 2-Stage Trigger Comparison - Geissele SSA, SSA-E & National Match, KAC - YouTube

 

[Tahoe333]

Hey lifebreath, in your video the trigger pins have a bit of movement when you depress the trigger. FYU - The slight pin movement can enhance the feeling of "creep".

 

[vrakes]

Thanks, the video was very helpful. Maybe I meant "creep" and "excess travel" instead of "mushy". The nm looks to be what I need. Also, did not realize trigger pins contributed to "creep" but don't think I have that problem. Will recheck again tomorrow to be sure.
Another thing, is it a good idea to "Polish" the contacting parts of a new trigger, Geissele or otherwise, with very fine steel wool as a sort of "lapping" like you would do to a new barrel?

 

[ORD]

Another thing, is it a good idea to "Polish" the contacting parts of a new trigger, Geissele or otherwise, with very fine steel wool as a sort of "lapping" like you would do to a new barrel?

Do NOT go polishing/honing/etc. a Geissele trigger. Its either right out of the box or it isn't. If it isn't, get with Bill and he'll make it right plain and simple. A Geissele trigger isn't akin to your basic mil-spec, heavy, gritty, mass produced POS trigger found in 99% of all AR parts kits around the world where some "finish" work that can be accomplished with some elbow grease is necessary or appropriate. The Geissele triggers are made with precision in mind from start to finish and shouldn't require any tweaking, modification, break-in, etc. to run exceptionally well once properly installed.

 

[Autark]

As far as the 6.5 Grendel goes, I've been working up some loads in my JP gas gun. From my time around the 6.5 forum, I barely saw any bolt issues come up, more rumors than guys with busted bolts. I've run from minimum to max loads with h233 (since that's what I had around) without any pressure signs or misbehavior.

What kind of upper are you running?

And I'm sure there are a lot of guys here who can give you better tips on looking for pressure signs, but the typical tells are cratered primers, and ejector swipes.

 

[lifebreath]

Hey lifebreath, in your video the trigger pins have a bit of movement when you depress the trigger. FYU - The slight pin movement can enhance the feeling of "creep".

Creep is a function of the trigger engaging the sear and the length of the sear. If the trigger engages the sear and then drags for some distance before the sear drops, creep is what is felt. If the distance is very short, creep is virtually eliminated. It has nothing to do with the trigger pins moving. However, if the pins have significant slop, you could experience some movement of the trigger after it engages the sear and before the trigger engagement surface actually starts to slide on the sear, but that would not be creap, and that's not what is happening with any of these triggers. Geissele provides pins that are 0.0005" oversized to tighten up the whole assembly. Perhaps this is what you mean. The KAC has a little more creep Geissele, and you can feel the surface engage and slide before the sear drops. It's very consistent on all four of my Knights rifles.

 

[vrakes]

I have a Black Rain upper and lower. So far I am using only IMR 8208BR with 100 grain Nosler BT's and Hornaday 107 BTHP's, as well as the Hornaday 123 factory (Both SST and A-Max). I also have TAC and Benchmark, as well as H322, H335 and some others. Do not have RL15 which looks promising in some other guns here on the forum. The guy who made the gun for me emphasized NOT reloading hot, as it would NOT show pressure signs like a normal bolt gun does. I have loaded quite a few other bolt rifles as well as numerous pistols and have ALWAYS seen pressure signs on loads too hot for that particular gun, such as cratered primers, flattened primers, blown primers, and stuck cases.
What is an ejector swipe?
Really appreciate the knowledge and help on this forum.
I have a sporter rifle in 6PPC that shoots great with H335 or H422 (Can't remember now, getting too dam old!!). Would that tend to work well in the PPC case?

 

[Autark]

H322, I mean, yes. Ejector swipe is also called Case-head swipe. It's a circular impression on the case head from the ejector in the AR platform. It's a good early sign of too much pressure. Here is an article on it. If you just want a quick idea, scroll down to the large pic of the cases side by side. It shows a severe case of it on the right with a blown primer.

Case-Head Swipe | Shooting Illustrated

Good question on the H335 and the H442. I haven't had much time to play around with different powders yet in the Grendel case. I'd like to know what you find out.