First Post! M40A3 revelation!

[Pathfinder0311]

Hello everyone,

This is my first post on Sniper's Hide but know that I have read posts on here for years

A little bit about myself...
I was in the Marine's from Aug 2005 - Feb 2010 and my MOS was 0311. I did 3 deployments and I have my CAR. For the time I was in the USMC I spent more than half of that time in the Scout/Sniper Platoon where I was a PIG. I love to shoot rifles but currently I'm on hiatus because of college. I'm studying electrical engineering and I have about 2 years left to go before I graduate and thank God I can't wait!

I have a custom built rifle based off the M40A3 but chambered in 300WM. It was built by Jered Joplin of American Precision Arms and the fit & finish is superb! This was my first precision bolt gun and also the gun I learned how to reload. I've learned so much from this rifle like: what works for me, what's essential, whats unnecessary, and most importantly tactical practicality. My biggest gripe about my bolt gun is the long-action and weight. There are other details about it but in general I think the rifle is impractical.

I love this rifle and I have no regrets about getting it. I consider it a learning experience and a bit of a stepping stone. From all that I have learned from this bolt gun, I'm leaning toward getting a M40A1 in 308Win. It's simple, robust, practical, and quite frankly gets the job done.

Have any of you shooters out there ever had a revelation like this? Where you go from from high-tech to low-tech because it just works.

 

[BangBangBlatBlat]

Ive done this with a lot of my High Power shooting equipment. I know there's an advantage to 31inch barrels and tri lug custom actions; I just can't see what it is with the scores I'm shooting with a custom built 40X...I got it second hand, and I dont even know if the action is trued.

But I can clean 300, 500, 600 yard mid range targets with it if I do my job.

A friend of mine, retired E8/11B, hunts with M40A1 clones with the old 3-9 Redfields, and he says thats all you really need.

 

[ArmyJerry]

Whats the weight diff between the two, 308 will be cheaper to shoot but wont have the bang of the WM. Once you graduate you will get paid well if your grades are decent, keep the WM and get a 308 sps you can build on later. I always question my gun purchases until I find a load and shoot that first good group with it.

 

[hahco]

I think a lot of shooters tend to obsess about the ideal size and weight of a rifle, myself included. My guess is that you're probably going to end up going even shorter/lighter than an M40A1. there's a reason the various 20" barrel .308's are such big sellers. also, thanks for your service, and good luck with finishing up the engineering degree.

 

[hamstur]

There's way more weight coming from the barrel than long vs short action, so that M40A1 is pretty heavy itself imho.

I know the exact feeling to moving toward lighter guns and find a perfect blend of accuracy & weight balance with medium Palma contour in 22" for 308 and 24" for 6.5mm

 

[Walsh]

I first wanted tactical doodads everywhere, now I am building a sime rifle with iron sights off of a Remington 1903A3 stripped reciever.

Just traded away my SWFA 3-9..... and don't even care for any kind of optic now..... go figure!

 

[Masked]

I have the exact opposite experience.

I started on a 22 like most of us...Went to a 308 and basically used that as a growth platform.

Learning on a 308 is invaluable, IMHO. It's cheap, it has the efficiency and it's incredibly available.

I've had a win mag before, I've had a lapua and even had a 408 for a time...I didn't look at them with the same practicality that I do now. Young and stupid is a bit of an understatement.

Got talked into going for another win mag very recently and quite honestly, I couldn't be happier. - Even sold my 308 bolt gun, recently because I only take the AR10 SASS + Win Mag out these days.

The ballistics are great...Only hard part about reloading is the brass...Shooting 200+gr is a dream...

Once you really get into reloading, the 308 and the 300wm cost about the same...

I'm not a practical individual though -- Stepped up my game for the 300wm.

Gluck with the swap.

 

[weshowe]

Pathfinder0311,

Semper Fi, Marine! It's good to see another on the forum.

Like you, I have decided that fancy "sticks" don't do it for me and shoot a M40A1 clone with an Obermeyer 5R barrel. It shoots better than I can, but easily holds the "X" at 600 when I do my part. It's hard to beat a good M40A1, so your choice is sound. The .308 is a good round, but today I might build one in .260 Remington for the benefits of the 6.5 bullet.

Wes
Major,2502/1302

 

[WildBill3/75]

So many variables when it comes to precision rifles honestly....just like any firearms in general. There are an endless amount of combinations/options you can do to gear towards what you want.

I still love 30cal and belted magnums but have drifted more towards the 6.5 offerings.

 

[Downzero]

Not sure what you mean by high tech vs. low tech. A bolt gun is just a tube with a cap on one end; they've existed for over 100 years. Belted magnums like 300MW are far from the forefront of technology as well. There's really nothing high tech about a modern bolt gun other than precision machining, which is of course much better than that of 100 years ago.

If what you're saying is that you can have just as much or more fun with cheaper, simpler, and lighter, I wouldn't disagree. Unless I'm shooting beyond 300, I don't bother taking a rifle with a barrel longer than a 14.5 lightweight. It's amazing how much you can do with so little.

I also don't own any magnum rifles, and if I did, I probably wouldn't shoot them much inside of 800 yards, unless I was hunting large beast that needed that ballistic power to go down.

 

[lonegunman762x51]

Everyone has a revelation or two along the way. I have been shooting competitive rifle and pistol for 25 years. I started on active duty in the Air Force and continued on until I made the All-Guard team towards the end of my career. I enjoy an accurate rifle and realiable pistol. When I hunt, I have been using a "scout" type rifle in .308 WIN. In the end, it is light, easy to carry, fast on the fly and accurate to 300yds.

Long range hunting is in the future and I am working on something for that as well, it will no doubt be miserable to carry because of the weight and length. But, it will go sub-MOA to 1000 yds with no problems.

Have fun exploring shooting and collecting, it is a pleasant way to spent your downtime. Thanks for being a Marine.

 

[M40_A1]

The M40A1 is a piece of crap ;-)

You're not the first to notice the excessive weight of the A3 (/A5), and you'll be able to keep your stock weld while cycling the short action.

Semper Fidelis.

 

[Pathfinder0311]

Hey guys,

I really appreciate everyone's thoughtful input and personal experience. Your opinion does matter to me and I will remember your advice when making future decisions.

I hear some of you encouraging me try something in 6.5mm or the 260Rem over the 308Win. I may just do that as long as: it's short action capable, can be loaded to mag length, and low recoil. I have looked into a 6.5x284mm Norma caliber offering and it is by far ballistically superior. But it's going to be more expensive to shoot since it has ~1/5 the barrel life and the cost of the components is going to be more.

Do you guys have any experiences with the 6.5x284mm Norma caliber?

Thank you for your replies and Merry Christmas!

 

[weshowe]

Pathfinder0311,

I had a 6.5 X 284 built by Iron Brigade Armory on a true M40A1. It was the first they'd built and was marked "experimental".
That rifle shot groups half the size of my .308 and often printed 1 1/4" five shot groups at 600 fired over my pack. It's a great rifle/cartridge combination. As noted, the downside is barrel life. Expect 2,000 to 2,500 max rounds to re-barreling. Yuck.

Still, if barrel life were NOT the issue I'd go 6.5 X 284 any day of the week and not look back. Expect about 5,000 to 6,000 rounds barrel life from the 6.5/08-260 Remington class cartridges.

If you shoot .308 take a hard look at the 155 grain Lapua Scenars. Extremely HIGH BC...it basically makes the .308 a game changer IMHO...

come ups at 600 for me are:
.308/175=15 MOA

.308/155=13.25 MOA

6.5 x .284/142=11.25 MOA

Those were actual come ups from my rifles. Load data if you need it, Pathfinder!

S/F,

Wes

 

[81sfo]

Semper Fi Devil Dog
I got rid of my m40a3 but not before I turned it into an A5 and then went short mag with it. I kept my m40a1 instead and I've got 3500 rounds thru it , to me its simple and effective .I'm takin that 40 to the grave when i expire.

 

[jbell]

Welcome and Semper Fi, there are a few of us loitering around here. The Hide is actually composed of a lot of very nice, knowledgeable, and helpful people. So you are in a good place for quality intel (80% of the time...). I say as far as going for the simpler tools of the trade there is nothing wrong with it. I have ADD so bad I cant keep anything long enough to start a pattern. I do however believe that shooting is all about enjoyment and if you enjoy what you are shooting then mission accomplished.

weshowe, that is some good barrel life out of your 6.5X284! I smoked a Kelbly built 6.5X284 in 1200-1300 rounds. It is a good caliber if barrel life means nothing but if you are just casually shooting there are calibers out there that will give you a bit less head aches.

Jose, hey man how are you doing?

 

[weshowe]

jbell,

In all actuality my accuracy had dropped off starting at about 1,500 rounds. It was so-so at 2,000 and totally gone by the time I approached 2,500 rounds. In all honesty, I babied the barrel and never really heated it up. If I had there's no doubt my experience would have mirrored yours...

6.5 X 284 great caliber, just to hard on barrels.

Wes

 

[Pathfinder0311]

Semper Fi fellow Marines! My my what a small world we live in! But to tell you the truth, I'm not surprised to find all you guys on here

I think the 6.5x284mm Norma would be a good match for me. It would take me while to reach that 1.5k-2k round count knowing me. I think you get a lot out of firing 20 rounds per shooting session. I pour my heart & soul into firing off 20 perfect shots and I meticulously record everything so I can reflect on it to improve myself.

Hey weshowe, give me that load data please. Hopefully it uses H1000 powder because that's what I'm using now for the 300WM

Thank you everyone for your wonderful responses!

 

[jbell]

Ill have to do some digging to see what I was shooting in the 6.5X284, it has been a while.

Weshowe, I got ya. I actually was hard on mine fast bullets and fast strings...

 

[weshowe]

Pathfinder,

I found my "go to load" for the 6.5 X .284 Norma(Winchester). It's a 142 grain SMK over 54.6 grains of H4831SC, a Federal 210M primer, and a Norma case. OAL is: 2.98" This is the best load I've found and gives a solid 2,950 FPS AND is easy on the bore(not a max load, but work up, it's above book data).

Send me your address and I'll send you a box of the original Norma ammo made by Black Hill's Ammunition. It's good stuff , my load "mirrors" it's performance.

Wes
Grouchy old jarhaid Major...;-)

 

[jbell]

I too was using H4831SC but cant remember the charge.

 

[sinister]

Some USAMU shooters labeled the 6.5 x 284 "The Fag Mag" as it replaced the 300 Win Mag for 1,000-yard matches.

The 6.5 would shoot inside the 300's wind calls and pretty much do everything the 300 can -- except beat the snot out of you.

Round count and barrel life is slightly better, but not much better.

My first 4-man team match at Camp Perry I was slotted to fire last since I didn't have a 6.5 and needed to borrow SFC Jason Saint John's rifle once he came off the line as our #1 shooter.

He passed me his rifle and an Allen wrench and I adjusted everything on the line, having never fired the rifle before. SSG Mike Moore coached me, and despite shooting one 8 (I stuck my finger in the trigger guard and set off the light Anschutz trigger) I shot a 198 with a handful of Xs. Saint John said since I beat his score (with a rifle I'd never picked up before!) that was the last time he'd lend his gun out.

I sold off all my old Mongo-heavy barreled bolt guns. The Remington Varmint / Sendero profile is very steady and much lighter, shoots just as straight, and while a little beefier is not a huge pain to try to haul around the woods and up and down mountains and ridges.

 

[Centuriator]

Welcome to the forum and thank you for your service.

 

[Pathfinder0311]

Thank you thank you! Wow what a tale sinister of borrowing someone else's rifle and pulling off an incredible score! You must be one helluva shooter haha!

So I definitely am leaning towards the 6.5x284mm Norma in my next custom rifle. I'm thinking about using Lapua cases, CCI BR2 primers, IMR 4831 powder, and Sierra 142's as the load. Has anyone had any experience shooting this particular load? And with the Sierra 142's are they still short enough to load inside the magazine?

 

[weshowe]

Pathfinder,

The 6.5 X .284 is a long action cartridge(2.98") vice 2.80" for the .308 short actions. Don't get hung up on the short action. I build my M40A1 on a long Rem 700 and it was a peach. The .284 CAN be loaded to 2.800", BUT you give up powder space and heavily compress loads. Therefore it IS NOT recommended.
Go long action and don't look back. You won't notice the difference.

Wes

 

[jbell]

Thank you thank you! Wow what a tale sinister of borrowing someone else's rifle and pulling off an incredible score! You must be one helluva shooter haha!

So I definitely am leaning towards the 6.5x284mm Norma in my next custom rifle. I'm thinking about using Lapua cases, CCI BR2 primers, IMR 4831 powder, and Sierra 142's as the load. Has anyone had any experience shooting this particular load? And with the Sierra 142's are they still short enough to load inside the magazine?

Not just someone else, Jason is a damn good shooter. Quite an accomplishment!

 

[Pathfinder0311]

Hey weshowe,

I'm so sorry I completely over looked your post about offering to send me some loaded ammo! I'm flattered and yes I would like to have a sample. I haven't ordered the rifle yet --it will be a while because I am selling a lot of my stuff to raise the money-- but I would definitely like to get some loaded ammo from you so I can go ahead and start taking measurements.

This is good news that the 6.5x284mm Norma is a long action! Hell, I should take my already existing R700 chambered in 300WM and convert it to the 6.5. Put a different stock on it and various other things and hell I'll be tickled

 

[weshowe]

Pathfinder(Joshua),

Ammo goes out this week.

You can use your magnum Rem 700, but you'll have to bush the bolt face and change the extractor OR get a new bolt(Pacific Precision/Dave Kiff). Both get expensive. My advice is to sell the .300 WM and buy an early Rem 700 in 30/06. It makes a perfect conversion and you'll be able to get one easily for the price you get for the rifle.
If you are having it built to M40A1 specs I recommend Iron Brigade Armory and/or G.A. Precision. Both do stellar work and will built a rifle you are proud of...more importantly it will shoot like a house on fire!
I'm excited for you. This takes me back to the days of my first build...the 6.5 X .284.

Semper Fi,

Wes Howe

 

[Pathfinder0311]

Thank you Wes for the ammo! I'm still interested in the 6.5x284mm. I'm not giving up on it! I need to do some more research on it!

 

[weshowe]

Pathfinder,

Don't give up on the 6.5 X .284. It's a great cartridge. I plan on building another one of these days. I have the reamer, too.

It sounds like that .300 of yours is a peach. Why not shoot it out buy a new tube and bolt with a .473" face and you'll be in business. That is, unless you just want the M40A1 platform...

Wes

 

[weshowe]

Pathfinder,

6.5 X .284 ammo ships tomorrow. Will send tracking data for you...

Wes

 

[Pathfinder0311]

Hey Wes, thank you so much man!