JP rifles supermatch barrel owners; long term durability.

[fnbrowning]

I've had my AR10A4B since 1999. This fall I sent the olde girl to Armalite for their AR-10 Standard Update package, and their techs found some throat erosion.
Since I recently joined a range that has positions out to 600yds, I'd like to get it rebarreled. So as you can imagine, I'm researching barrel manufacturers.

I've come across a number of recommendations on the JP Supermatch™ barrels. The .308 barrels are said to be capable of half minute accuracy and are lighter in weight.
JP barrels look good on paper, but I'm leery of stainless for long life.

JP rifles touts their cryogenic treating of Supermatch barrels for thermal accuracy & extended life. From the many articles I've read on cryogenic treatment, John Paul is correct on cryo treating for accuracy & temp stability, but there is no documented evidence cryo treatment makes stainless steel barrels resist wear longer.

So, if you've shot a JP rifles barrel for awhile, I'm very interested to know how the JP stainless barrel accuracy has held up over time, especially at ranges over 100yds.

Thank you!

 

[800mZero]

You did see the bit on the website abput the goat killers correct??

20000 high speed fired rounds, and thier rifles were still shooting moa.

Oh and thier 308 barrels do shoot sub moa, and are light in the right places.

Click the "more on barrels" tab

JP - Barrels

 

[fnbrowning]

You did see the bit on the website abput the goat killers correct??

20000 high speed fired rounds, and thier rifles were still shooting moa.

Oh and thier 308 barrels do shoot sub moa, and are light in the right places.

Click the "more on barrels" tab

JP - Barrels

Yup, I've read the JP rifles site up, down, sideways!

You understand that the anecdotal story about the Galapagos goat shooters was unsupported opinion, correct? It's not like one of those barrels came back for an examination.
After many hours of dedicated searching, I find no documented evidence cryo treatment makes stainless steel barrels resist wear longer. Again, there are some anecdotal stories. . . . just guessing and speculation.

What I hope to find here, is a Hide member with a real world report.

 

[Regalkismet]

With the price of ammo these days it will probably be hard to find those that put that many rounds down range.... What you will notice is that there isn't anything but praise on this forumn and every other forumn I frequent when it comes to JP rifles and barrels..... You can't go wrong with JP.... Fantastic products and even better customer service. I indeed have a JP barrel on my Mega Monolithic 308 but my round count is miniscule.

 

[3GunRunner]

Part of the reason for the long life span of so many JP rifles is the Thermal Dissapator. The Thermal Dissapator keeps the barrel temp way down compared to a barrel without it. If you keep the material cooler it will last longer. The large JPTD gives a 700% increase of barrel surface area and is made of aluminum so it is light and it transfers heat very efficiently to the air. Cryo treatment also helps with better consistency throughout the thermal range; in other words it helps to keep your cold bore shot as close to your hot shots as possible. Often it is multiple parts working together that give the optimal desired results. (Example: The Low mass carriers work great and helps to reduce felt recoil; But, they work/feel far better if you add an adjustable gas block and a low mass buffer.

 

[800mZero]

Yup, I've read the JP rifles site up, down, sideways!

You understand that the anecdotal story about the Galapagos goat shooters was unsupported opinion, correct? It's not like one of those barrels came back for an examination.
After many hours of dedicated searching, I find no documented evidence cryo treatment makes stainless steel barrels resist wear longer. Again, there are some anecdotal stories. . . . just guessing and speculation.

What I hope to find here, is a Hide member with a real world report.

So you dont consider the shooters themselves reporting back thier round counts, and current rifle capabilites, followed up by video evidence of how the rifle is being shot as proof of the longevity capability of a barrel?

Are you looking for scientific heat teating reports of metals? Are you an engineer? Do you have access to the AWS documents? Might be a good place to start looking for that type of science.

I guess the further question is do you intend on firing 20000 rounds of 308 to even approach their claims?

Test analysis of cryo discussion. Reports increased wear resistance
http://www.metalscience.com/techinfo_ASM.php

 

[fnbrowning]

So you dont consider the shooters themselves reporting back thier round counts, and current rifle capabilites, followed up by video evidence of how the rifle is being shot as proof of the longevity capability of a barrel?

Are you looking for scientific heat teating reports of metals? Are you an engineer? Do you have access to the AWS documents? Might be a good place to start looking for that type of science.

I guess the further question is do you intend on firing 20000 rounds of 308 to even approach their claims?

Test analysis of cryo discussion. Reports increased wear resistance
Metal Science Services Cryogenic Science

800mZero;

To me, your reply comes across testy, and I had to stop myself from posting the sarcastic reply some of your impertinent questions deserved.
I don't think you and I will have successful discussions online.

 

[fnbrowning]

3GunRunner, Regalkismet; Thank you for your input.
Along with your replies, a deep Google search turned up a Practical Shooting site with as 3Gun notes, a lot of praise for JP products. I found a thread "Life span of a JP stainless barrel?" that nudged me toward the phone.

After a very satisfying conversation with Mel Koenig of JP Rifles, I have decided on a 22" length ● 1:10 twist ● medium contour.

 

[800mZero]

800mZero;

To me, your reply comes across testy, and I had to stop myself from posting the sarcastic reply some of your impertinent questions deserved.
I don't think you and I will have successful discussions online.

Sir,

I apologize if you feel that way.

Please allow me to explain my questions, and hopefully you will see different.

Abput the goat shooters. In our game there are very few people who will ever see the round counts needed to prove or disprove a barrel life claim. Basically you have the military, 3 gun shooters, and special programs such as the goat shooters. Therefore I consider opinions of those groups to be about the best scientific research we are going to get. You came into this forum and asked the question if anyone had experience with jp barrels barrel life and accuracy over time at range. If I told you that I had 30, 000 rounds through my lrp-07 and was still shooting sub moa at 800 yards, how would my statement be any different than that of the goat shooters? Furthermore I see you relied upon a 3gun forum for info, please see my statement above about the few groups that will see round counts that high.

As for my second set of questions. You approached this thread appearing to be looking for scientific research on cold/heat treatments of steel. If you are an engineer, acess to the AWS steel stress reports is a great way to start. However you need to be an engineer to gain access to the files. I am an engineer, and could help you out.

My third question relates to the first. You stated that you have just joined a new range for long range. You also stated that it took you 15 years roughly to notice erosion on a stock ar10 barrel. However you gave no indication of round count it took to do that errosion. Frankly most barrel damage can be tracked to over cleaning, improper reloading techniques etc. You provided none of this info. Therefore I asked if you are ever going to shoot 20000 rounds of 308 to actually test JPs claims. Its a fair question as most never will. To be honest sir, you may be 90 years old and still shooting from what I know, if thats the case you would never see another worn barrel in your life time.

My last link was some data to show wear resistance increase from cryoing.

Last but not least, congrats on your barrel. You have bought the top of the line, and will have years of great shooting from that barrel.JP custmer service is among the best in the industry.

Again, I apologize if my post came off curt, or even sarcastic. That was not my intent. Welcome to the JP club. I have a lrp-07 and a scr-11, they are amazing shooters when the monkey pulling the trigger does his part.

 

[fnbrowning]

Sir,

I apologize if you feel that way.

Please allow me to explain my questions, and hopefully you will see different.

Abput the goat shooters. In our game there are very few people who will ever see the round counts needed to prove or disprove a barrel life claim. Basically you have the military, 3 gun shooters, and special programs such as the goat shooters. Therefore I consider opinions of those groups to be about the best scientific research we are going to get. You came into this forum and asked the question if anyone had experience with jp barrels barrel life and accuracy over time at range. If I told you that I had 30, 000 rounds through my lrp-07 and was still shooting sub moa at 800 yards, how would my statement be any different than that of the goat shooters? Furthermore I see you relied upon a 3gun forum for info, please see my statement above about the few groups that will see round counts that high.

As for my second set of questions. You approached this thread appearing to be looking for scientific research on cold/heat treatments of steel. If you are an engineer, acess to the AWS steel stress reports is a great way to start. However you need to be an engineer to gain access to the files. I am an engineer, and could help you out.

My third question relates to the first. You stated that you have just joined a new range for long range. You also stated that it took you 15 years roughly to notice erosion on a stock ar10 barrel. However you gave no indication of round count it took to do that errosion. Frankly most barrel damage can be tracked to over cleaning, improper reloading techniques etc. You provided none of this info. Therefore I asked if you are ever going to shoot 20000 rounds of 308 to actually test JPs claims. Its a fair question as most never will. To be honest sir, you may be 90 years old and still shooting from what I know, if thats the case you would never see another worn barrel in your life time.

My last link was some data to show wear resistance increase from cryoing.

Last but not least, congrats on your barrel. You have bought the top of the line, and will have years of great shooting from that barrel.JP custmer service is among the best in the industry.

Again, I apologize if my post came off curt, or even sarcastic. That was not my intent. Welcome to the JP club. I have a lrp-07 and a scr-11, they are amazing shooters when the monkey pulling the trigger does his part.

800mZero; Thank you for the considerate reply. I appreciate your input.

One item I will explain for yourself and other readers. I understand what you are saying re: the goat shooters. My perspective is that as long as the original report comes from a forum member like yourself, I will accept the report. You have been here since 2005, and I assume that you have a reputation to protect, so if you report second hand from a military, 3 gun shooter, or special programs shooter, I will gladly accept that also.

My reluctance was - as nice as John Paul et al - JP Rifles may be - the goat shooters story came from a undocumented 2nd hand report on the sales page of the very manufacturer that made the product, and thus must be regarded as somewhat more biased than a 1st person report from an actual forum member. That was all I meant.

Best Regards!

 

[sinister]

I am a military, 3-gun, special program shooter. My unit bought a few JP rifles in both 308 and 260. They shoot very well, very straight, for a long time.

 

[fnbrowning]

I am a military, 3-gun, special program shooter. My unit bought a few JP rifles in both 308 and 260. They shoot very well, very straight, for a long time.

It's a post like this that makes me feel more confident about the decision I've made.

 

[jevan126]

800mZero that was well said. I never could understand how people could say that JP rifles were only good for 3-gun and nothing more, I can't stop laughing. Some of the best inventions and or improvements came from 3-gun tournaments and ect. I do believe that when it comes to barrel life there is more in play than just the name on the barrel, but if you look at the round count that 3-gunners produce then I think you have to give them the edge here in knowledge of barrel life. Now I have barely even broken in my LRP-07 barrel but I will not be surprised if it still shoots 1moa @ 20,000 round count, hell I would not be surprised if it shot .75moa @ 20,000 rounds.

 

[gose]

My .223 JP Medium contour barrel started seeing larger groups and dropping velocity after around 8000 rounds. Though it probably would be good enough for match use for a while longer, it's been retired as a match upper, except for local matches.

 

[800mZero]

Gose,

How was it shot? 3gun, bench?

Did you have the thermal dissapator?

How ofter did you clean the barrel?

Did you use a bore guide each time?

What ammo did you primarily shoot?

When you said "opened up", how much are we talking??

 

[gose]

Gose,
How was it shot? 3gun, bench?
Did you have the thermal dissapator?
How ofter did you clean the barrel?
Did you use a bore guide each time?
What ammo did you primarily shoot?
When you said "opened up", how much are we talking??

This is a CTR-02 upper that has been used for 3-gun, so it's been pretty abused. Usually run a patch or two through it after a session (100-200) rounds, with a more thorough cleaning every 3-5 sessions and before major matches.

It's lost .5-.75 MOA and ~100 fps since it was new, with ammo verified to be the same in other ARs. Most of the ammo has been 55gr FMJs @ 2900 fps and 69gr SMKs @ 2800, but it probably has a few k of PRVI, Am Eagle and XM193 down the pipe as well..
Thinking about it, the barrel probably has more like 10k rounds through it.

10k rounds of 3-gunning and still being in decent shape is still pretty darn good IMHO. JP had it in for service around the 5k mark and said erosion wasnt too bad, so another 5k on top of that seems pretty good.

 

[HairyDemon]

With these barrel kits like below do they include the JP muzzle Break?

JP Rifles

 

[nuclear_shooter]

With these barrel kits like below do they include the JP muzzle Break?

JP Rifles

Just bought mine. You can pick between the three styles of brake included. It also includes the gas block and TD. You can use their rifle builder to get an exact quote of what they cost.

Edit: Sorry, just checked the link. That is not their barrel kit, just the barrel and bolt. They offer full barrel kits w/ the stuff mentioned above for about 860, depending on the barrel/cal/contour.

 

[rchman]

Not to be a smart ass, but if the barrel is known to shoot well and meets your weight criteria, what does it matter if it only has normal barrel life? You're not going to get CL barrel life AND the top end accuracy.

If my Krieger barrel only lasted 5k rounds vs 10k,that means I spent over $5k in ammo, so what's another $500? That's the same amount I would pay in sales tax on that ammo if I bought it at the store.

 

[Mr.Kirk]

You sound like my gunsmith

Not to be a smart ass, but if the barrel is known to shoot well and meets your weight criteria, what does it matter if it only has normal barrel life? You're not going to get CL barrel life AND the top end accuracy.

If my Krieger barrel only lasted 5k rounds vs 10k,that means I spent over $5k in ammo, so what's another $500? That's the same amount I would pay in sales tax on that ammo if I bought it at the store.

 

[Red_SC]

My 5.56 JP is finally opening up to over MOA, it was run hard before I got it and I haven't babied it either. The former owner ran cases of steel cased junk through it, and I have shot almost all reloads. No idea on round count, but it should have died years ago. It's primarily a 3 gun rifle, but I've taken it to 600+ a number of times and a 3 day carbine class. Just an outstanding rifle IMO.

Older 1/9 barrel, no dissipator.