How does the Armalite National Match trigger stack up?

[Fenix Mike]

I have a new Armalite SASS on the way and have the optics, couple small mods, bipod etc ready to go on so I can take it right out and sight it in. Question though, seems on the searches, people are 50/50 about these triggers, and honestly I prefer a single stage, but seem to read just as many complaints about Timneys drop in trigger with set screws. Ive had the POF/Hogan drop in put into other guns, and its great for a battle rifle but that 4.5 lbs is a bit much for a match gun that will only be bench rest shooting.

Ive looked at the 30,000,000 Geissele triggers offered but all seem to be two stage, does someone make a fantastic single stage with a 3-3.5 lb pull? Or am I better off just keeping the Armalite in there which states 2.5 lb first stage and 4-4.5 lb second stage? I suppose I could live with a Geissele two stage if I had to, but for the price it would have to be a day and night difference.

Edit - did find one single stage trigger that seems to match what I'm looking for, how does the S3G Geissele do?
http://dsgarms.com/ProductInfo/GATS3G.aspx

 

[SomeOtherGuy]

I've been using a SD3 for over a year now on a competition gun (3-gun style competition). It's an awesome trigger for shooting really, really fast. For me, I would not like it as a precision trigger, as there is some travel (though very smooth and relatively short) and the break is a surprise. It is basically a two-stage trigger with the second stage tuned out, so you have the pull of what would be the first stage, followed by a release with no additional effort once you've pulled it to where the second stage would otherwise start. I've read one or two reviews by people using it as a precision trigger and liking it. Best thing I can say is that if you try it and don't like it, you can resell it for a very small loss.

 

[arnie19]

Timney is a single stage .

 

[ORD]

I am not a big fan of any of the Armalite triggers as I find them to all be sloppy and heavy compared to higher quality 2-stage triggers on the market like those offered by Geissele (of which I personally prefer the SSA-E/SD-E for non-adjustable triggers and the HS NM for an adjustable). I do find them to be "night and day" different than the Armalite triggers (both the Tac 2-stage and the NM), but if you don't like/want a 2-stage, then night and day may be a stretch for you personally. As for the S3G...I personally would NOT go that route for a "precision-minded" AR as it was generally designed for SPEED (i.e. - rapid fire and rapid follow-up) and not necessarily for shooting tiny groups at extended ranges or otherwise delivering "precision" fire. I see people recommend them all the time for precision applications, but old habits die hard and I'd just much prefer a HS NM for a light-weight, precision AR based FCG based on my own muscle memory, preferences, etc.

The Timneys aren't bad triggers in my experience with them, but if the pull weight is something that you want lighter...skip it or you'll never be satisfied (same for the POF/Hogan, Wilson TTU...4lbs, etc., etc.).

JP Enterprises makes a high-quality single-stage trigger unit that is favored by many precision shooters who don't want a 2-stage trigger. In fact, DPMS packages it from the factory with their SASS rifles (and others). It can be setup with as light as ~3.5lb crisp, clean single-stage pull for the LR-308/AR-10 (could go a little lighter like to almost 3lbs, but reliable ignition can be a problem if you run the lighter hammer spring that is required to light off some large rifle primers, especially some mil spec, thicker/harder primer cups).

 

[Cegorach]

The two stage Armalite trigger in my rifle was less than impressive. While it wasn't gritty, the second stage was very creepy. Compared to the SDE and the hi speed there is no contest in my mind. The extra expense is absolutely worth it.

 

[Fenix Mike]

I'm gonna look at the jp, but sounds like I'm gonna have to order a geissele
Thanks for the info!

 

[mewillis]

I switched my SASS to the SSA-e and am very pleased. While you can get used to the stock Armalite it is well worth
the upgrade to a Geissele no doubt.

 

[Fenix Mike]

I switched my SASS to the SSA-e and am very pleased. While you can get used to the stock Armalite it is well worth
the upgrade to a Geissele no doubt.

this will be a dedicated range gun so id rather have a buttery smooth trigger in there... I can slam the national match into one of my colts or something that sees multi-role shooting and im sure it will be a nice improvement over a mil spec trigger.

 

[Fenix Mike]

I am not a big fan of any of the Armalite triggers as I find them to all be sloppy and heavy compared to higher quality 2-stage triggers on the market like those offered by Geissele (of which I personally prefer the SSA-E/SD-E for non-adjustable triggers and the HS NM for an adjustable). I do find them to be "night and day" different than the Armalite triggers (both the Tac 2-stage and the NM), but if you don't like/want a 2-stage, then night and day may be a stretch for you personally. As for the S3G...I personally would NOT go that route for a "precision-minded" AR as it was generally designed for SPEED (i.e. - rapid fire and rapid follow-up) and not necessarily for shooting tiny groups at extended ranges or otherwise delivering "precision" fire. I see people recommend them all the time for precision applications, but old habits die hard and I'd just much prefer a HS NM for a light-weight, precision AR based FCG based on my own muscle memory, preferences, etc.

The Timneys aren't bad triggers in my experience with them, but if the pull weight is something that you want lighter...skip it or you'll never be satisfied (same for the POF/Hogan, Wilson TTU...4lbs, etc., etc.).

JP Enterprises makes a high-quality single-stage trigger unit that is favored by many precision shooters who don't want a 2-stage trigger. In fact, DPMS packages it from the factory with their SASS rifles (and others). It can be setup with as light as ~3.5lb crisp, clean single-stage pull for the LR-308/AR-10 (could go a little lighter like to almost 3lbs, but reliable ignition can be a problem if you run the lighter hammer spring that is required to light off some large rifle primers, especially some mil spec, thicker/harder primer cups).

My buddy is recommending the SSAE, but I like the sound of the SD-E, whats the main difference in feel between the two? Reading online it seems like the main difference is just the flat trigger as opposed to bowed. It also states a lighter hammer though, will that have any issue with 308 ammo? I doubt this gun will see any surplus or junk ammo as it will likely get a steady diet of Hornady and Federal or reloads of both, but id rather not have light primer strikes. Most of the reviews I read are in 223 guns and not 308.

 

[ORD]

My buddy is recommending the SSAE, but I like the sound of the SD-E, whats the main difference in feel between the two? Reading online it seems like the main difference is just the flat trigger as opposed to bowed. It also states a lighter hammer though, will that have any issue with 308 ammo? I doubt this gun will see any surplus or junk ammo as it will likely get a steady diet of Hornady and Federal or reloads of both, but id rather not have light primer strikes. Most of the reviews I read are in 223 guns and not 308.

Both the SSA-E and SD-E are "spec'd" at the same weights of pull for both their first and second stages (~2.3lbs in the first and ~1.2lbs in the second). However, because of the flat trigger shoe/bow of the SD-E, the "perceived" weight of pull is lessened somewhat and the "feel" (at least to me) is better than with the standard, curved shoe/bow trigger. Again...a LOT of that comment is a matter of personal preference/feel, but the perceived weight of pull is definitely lower with the SD-E in my experience/opinion.

As for the hammer/spring differences...they are identical between the SSA-E and SD-E. Both are lightened hammers that get the lock time down to nearly half that of your basic mil-spec FCG (~5ms IIRC), but both have full-power hammer springs to keep the hammer speed high and ensure reliable ignition of all types of ammo. I have fired just about every sort of ammo imaginable through both 5.56 and 7.62 rifles at one time or another (from commercial match to my reloads to mil-surplus...especially 5.56 surplus) equipped with SSA-E and SD-E triggers and have NEVER had a FTFire related to the FCG. I don't foresee reliable ignition it being a problem for you, especially if you are going to be running primarily commercial match and/or match reloads.

 

[Fenix Mike]

Both the SSA-E and SD-E are "spec'd" at the same weights of pull for both their first and second stages (~2.3lbs in the first and ~1.2lbs in the second). However, because of the flat trigger shoe/bow of the SD-E, the "perceived" weight of pull is lessened somewhat and the "feel" (at least to me) is better than with the standard, curved shoe/bow trigger. Again...a LOT of that comment is a matter of personal preference/feel, but the perceived weight of pull is definitely lower with the SD-E in my experience/opinion.

As for the hammer/spring differences...they are identical between the SSA-E and SD-E. Both are lightened hammers that get the lock time down to nearly half that of your basic mil-spec FCG (~5ms IIRC), but both have full-power hammer springs to keep the hammer speed high and ensure reliable ignition of all types of ammo. I have fired just about every sort of ammo imaginable through both 5.56 and 7.62 rifles at one time or another (from commercial match to my reloads to mil-surplus...especially 5.56 surplus) equipped with SSA-E and SD-E triggers and have NEVER had a FTFire related to the FCG. I don't foresee reliable ignition it being a problem for you, especially if you are going to be running primarily commercial match and/or match reloads.

Well that settles that! I just wish someone here had both in stock or installed so I could feel what that flat trigger feels like. The reviews are amazing, but at $250, thats a lot to spend to not like it.

 

[ORD]

Well that settles that! I just wish someone here had both in stock or installed so I could feel what that flat trigger feels like. The reviews are amazing, but at $250, thats a lot to spend to not like it.

Its a tough pill to swallow the first go-around in terms of cost, but you'll wonder how you ever got by with other triggers after drinking from the Geissele fountain!!

Also, check with MidwayUSA as they up until recently had them for $235, but they may/may not attempt to rape you on S&H which seems to be their rule lately with a few items I have attempted to order but found cheaper elsewhere. You might also check with Greg at Tractus Arms (here on the Hide) as he used to carry Geissele triggers at very competitve prices, but I'm not sure on his inventory/availability.

Good luck!

 

[Fenix Mike]

Its a tough pill to swallow the first go-around in terms of cost, but you'll wonder how you ever got by with other triggers after drinking from the Geissele fountain!!

Also, check with MidwayUSA as they up until recently had them for $235, but they may/may not attempt to rape you on S&H which seems to be their rule lately with a few items I have attempted to order but found cheaper elsewhere. You might also check with Greg at Tractus Arms (here on the Hide) as he used to carry Geissele triggers at very competitve prices, but I'm not sure on his inventory/availability.

Good luck!

I picked up an SD-E, Geiselle gives 10% off for LE/Mil so $225 plus shipping. Should be here in a couple days! Now just to see if the Vortex Razor HD 5-20 is everything its supposed to be!

 

[trident1982]

I picked up an SD-E, Geiselle gives 10% off for LE/Mil so $225 plus shipping. Should be here in a couple days! Now just to see if the Vortex Razor HD 5-20 is everything its supposed to be!

ORD is right, you'll wonder how you ever lived life without that trigger once you use it. The SD-E is my favorite trigger made for the AR FOW. You won't regret that purchase!

eta...sounds like you ordered direct from GA, if so you should also get some cool swag for your coin.

 

[drum13]

So are you going to at least TRY the Armalite trigger to see if you like it before installing the SDE?

 

[Fenix Mike]

So are you going to at least TRY the Armalite trigger to see if you like it before installing the SDE?

Of course! But my geiselle came in yesterday just in case I have a sig 716 that needs some love too so either it gets the armalite trigger, or the new one.

 

[drum13]

Cool. I was surprised how much I liked mine. Sounds like they're hit or miss but I must've got a good one. Theyre worth checking out - not junk.
Congrats on the SASS bro!!! I had to settle for the ar10T but still love it and a close second to the SASS.

 

[Fenix Mike]

I'm excited... Tracking says it will be to my ffl tomorrow. I was going to sling the razor and grab a nf, but no one is biting so going to give the razor a try!

 

[Jaydee1445]

I
does someone make a fantastic single stage with a 3-3.5 lb pull?

Take a look at the CMC drop-in.CMC Triggers | CMCTriggers.com - The Most Effective AR-15 & AR-10 Accurizer! I just picked one up and am impressed. Zero take up, crisp break, no over travel. My only gripe is the pins are retained with small c-clips. I'll probably get a set of KNS anti-rotate pins for looks

 

[Fenix Mike]

Cool. I was surprised how much I liked mine. Sounds like they're hit or miss but I must've got a good one. Theyre worth checking out - not junk.
Congrats on the SASS bro!!! I had to settle for the ar10T but still love it and a close second to the SASS.

I should have read the PDFs on the trigger first... They give a complete write up on how to adjust it/clean it up, and it has 3 positions to set the spring on. Oh well... Had it out so installed the geissele anyway! Less creep on the trigger and a cleaner break, but the arms lite is perfect for my sig 716 that won't spend its life on a bipod. I wish I had spent some time tuning the trigger and playing with the lightest setting, but I'm happy with the out of the box geissele in there now!

 

[drum13]

That's cool. The Sig's badly need a trigger upgrade so that'll be win-win.

So how do you like the SASS??

 

[Fenix Mike]

it looks bad ass sitting on my dresser, haven't had time to go shoot it yet. I have a bunch of Hornady Amax 168s and a Razor 5-20 to sight in though, so hopefully soon!

 

[drum13]

Yep... definitely Bad-Ass!!
Let us know how you like shooting it. If you don't like it you can always send it to me