Primer Question

[Herd Thinner]

My question is simple although I can not find a site that talks about it unless I just have internet search failure today. I have found that primers brands softness to hard are # # # Federal # # # Remington # # # Winchester # # # CCI. Knowing this is it correct to say if in AR type rifles you should stay with CCI or Winchester. Also, if that is true what is the benefit of Federal or Remington in bolt action. Would it just be better to stay with CCI or Winchester for an all around primer. Sorry rookie question but trying to understand. Thanks !!!!

 

[samnev]

If you are using a semi like the are 15, M1 Garand, M1A, MAS 49/56 or any others that have floating non spring loaded firing pins to be on the safe side use CCI Mil Spec primers that are harder than normal primers. #34 for large rifle, #41 for small rifle. While I didn't have a slam fire before I started using them I know of several cases where slam fires did occur. 1 in an AR 15 1 in an M1a. I do not know what that actual cause was (high primer or soft primer or something else) but in one case federal was use in the other winchester. It only has to happen once so I feel better safe than sorry.

 

[Grumulkin]

You will find that some powder/primer combinations provide better accuracy than others. Sometimes the primer doesn't make much of a difference. You may get along just fine with CCI or Winchester primers; I use those for a number of loads.

In an AR-15, it would be prudent to stick with a mil spec primer as made by CCI and Federal.

 

[Herd Thinner]

You will find that some powder/primer combinations provide better accuracy than others. Sometimes the primer doesn't make much of a difference. You may get along just fine with CCI or Winchester primers; I use those for a number of loads.

In an AR-15, it would be prudent to stick with a mil spec primer as made by CCI and Federal.

Arent federal primers the softest. Wouldnt that be bad for ar15.

 

[bruddah]

Arent federal primers the softest. Wouldnt that be bad for ar15.

Federal also makes some match AR primers.

 

[hdbiker1]

I've used the Fed, CCI and Rem primers for yrs in the ar with no problems. I did have one slam fire releasing the bolt on a full mag of PMC once but that's it, knock on wood. I hope I didn't jinx myself.

 

[bruddah]

So far I've only used CCI 400 in my ARs to the tune of around 1,000 rounds and no issues to date.

 

[Grumulkin]

Arent federal primers the softest. Wouldnt that be bad for ar15.

Use Federal AR Small Rifle Match primers.

 

[Pinecone]

CCI recommends using their #41 (military primer) or #450 (Small Rifle Magnum) in ARs. The difference between the two is that #41 has a couple of thousandths more space between the anvil and the cup. Same priming compound, same amount, same cup.

Remington recommends using their 7 1/2 primers for AR. This is what they loaded into ammunition they made for the military.

Personally, I would stay away from Federal primers (unless a specific AR primer) for ARs.

Tula is supposed to be good also. And cheaper.

 

[Marty_Roz]

CCI-41 many condersider the best & aid in reducing a slam fire.

 

[mtrmn]

If you use CCI military primers remember they are also "magnum strength."

 

[hdbiker1]

Just guessing here, but to add a buffer so that if the pin did dent the cup it wouldn't be enough to reach the anvil.

 

[427Cobra]

I have yet to have a slam fire in my M1 Garand, AR10 or AR15's, I'm sure it's possible with any primer, I consider my AR15 a blaster, I have used any primer I can find, keep your weapon clean, bump the shoulders .003 on your fired brass seat your pills to mag length and IMHO apply a slight crimp with a Lee Factory Crimp Die.

 

[Pinecone]

Any info on why the added clearance? Thanks.

To reduce the possibility that the floating firing pin will touch of the primer when the bolt slams forward.

 

[damoncali]

To add a little of my own experience, I've used thousands of normal federal primers in ARs with no slam fires. They're not that easy to set off. That said, I switched to CCI 41's because there isn't any reason not to. But common sense still applies. Be prepared to shoot whatever the rifle is pointed at when you drop the bolt, and don't drop the bolt on a loaded round in such a way that the magazine won't slow it down a tad. Basic safety stuff.

Like others said, the 41's are magnum, to help with ball powder. I don't think that's necessary for typical civilian usage, but again, why not?

Over the years, I've yet to see much evidence that primers are terribly significant for bolt guns. Yet I still buy match primers for them. I don't know why. There is probably a marketing guy somewhere who thinks that is just hilarious.

 

[HodgdonExtreme]

I avoid Winchester primers as much as possible. I've seen WAY too many issues with them springing little leaks and gas-etching expensive bolts.

Otherwise, I've used every brand small rifle primer in ARs and never had a slamfire. However, I think it's wise to use the milspec or magnum primers specifically marketed for the purpose. It is alarming when you eject a live round from an AR and see a nice ding in the primer. Alarming indeed. Never ever put an AR into battery unless it's pointed at something you are willing to destroy.

Slight tangential leap: Ever been to an NRA highpower match, and watched a line of 20+ service rifle shooters "sky-loading" their ARs? Ergonomically, it is more comfortable when in sling and jacket, to have the muzzle aimed skyward when putting the rifle into battery. It amazes me the match directors and organizers allow this.

 

[1SMALLJOHNSON]

Pretty much darn near impossible for an AR to slam fire, by way of the firing pin touching the primer. Not if the primer is properly seated in the case. Matters not hard, nor soft. The firing pin does not "float" with the capability of extending past the bolt. The only way an AR firing pin can contact the primer is when the bolt is cammed into the bolt carrier. The only way a bolt can cam into the bolt carrier is when the system is in full battery. BUT, all bets are off if you've got a broken firing pin. Then, even the most "woodpecker lipped" (read HARD) primer ain't going to save your sorry butt.

Now, a true floating firing pin is a different story. And just because you've got a spring on your firing pin, don't think it's guaranteed safe. Even one like on a standard 1911 is pretty piss-poor when it comes to the capability of slam-firing. I recently replaced my firing pin spring on my 1911 because of this very slam-fire issue.

 

[SWThomas]

I started with CCI #41 and I'll stick with them as long as I can find them.

 

[bigedp51]

I really love some of the answers here about slam fires and primers and the term "primer softness".

Remington ran Lake City Army Ammunition Plant from 1941 till 1985 and "NEVER ONCE" loaded a single CCI #41 or 34 primer. Remington was developmental in the type of primer used in the M16 rifle. The highest probability of a slam fire on a M14 or M16 rifle is when a single round is loaded "WITHOUT" the magazine in place to slow down bolt velocity. The military lightened the firing pin on the M16 to help prevent this from happening and reduced the odds of this happening to one in ten million chance. And this is without the magazine in place.

Any primer with a cup thickness of .025 is all you should use in the AR15 rifle.

Below, proper primer seating with a slight primer crush, please note the primer is well below flush with the base of the case.

CHOOSING THE RIGHT PRIMER - A PRIMER ON PRIMERS
Primer Info & Chart + Milspec Primers for Semi-Autos & Other Primer Applications

If you would just read the history of the M16 rifle you would learn a little, in the book below there is a section about slam fires, primers and firing pins. The vast majority of slam fires are caused by reloads and primers not seated to the proper depth. The 5.56 primer is to be seated at least .008 below the rear of the case the same as the 7.62 is.

I use Remington 7 1/2 primers for my general purpose blasting practice ammo and CCI BR4 primers for my accuracy loads.

Now look at the flash photos of the small rifle primers at the link below, the Remington 7 1/2 primers are called "mini flame throwers" and very good for lighting off the Winchester ball powders loaded at Lake City.

The Rifleman's Journal: Primers - Small Rifle Primer Study

Below is the milspec drawing and information for the 5.56 case dimentions, with the primer pocket dimensions, this means the Remington 7 1/2 primer should be .008 to .012 below the surface of the case when seated properly.

Below the 7.62 primer is to be .008 below the base of the case, left center of drawing.

 

[Pinecone]

AR firing pin hits the primer when chambering.

http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x212/bobdobalita/IMG_3112.jpg

A slam fire is not necessarily an out of battery discharge. Every one I have heard of, was an IN battery discharge. So the bolt was fully cammed into the bolt carrier.

 

[bruddah]

Over the years, I've yet to see much evidence that primers are terribly significant for bolt guns. Yet I still buy match primers for them. I don't know why. There is probably a marketing guy somewhere who thinks that is just hilarious.

This really had me chuckling.....