Ok well then buy one of your custom actions and enjoy it. I have my Remington and am very happy with them. In the endbi shoot the same or better. And theyre not shitty at all thats just your opinion.. like an asshole, we all have them.
- Thread starter cgmaster1
- Start date
Ok well then buy one of your custom actions and enjoy it. I have my Remington and am very happy with them. In the endbi shoot the same or better. And theyre not shitty at all thats just your opinion.. like an asshole, we all have them.
Yea its not like dozens of companies have made their name making 700 clones, Building them correct from the start without shitty materials, shitty building methods, poor QC and poor finishing.
And it defeinatly not like there are HUNDREDS of smiths who pretty much pay all their bills, working on and fixing Model700's, and building them into quality guns.
How you can even compare a stock 700 action with a factory barrel, to a built custom action with a premium barre,l is mind boggling. And who the hell is going to go through the expense and time to true a 700 action and throw a factory barrel back on it?
Yes they are shitty, and its not just my opinion. Its a fact backed up by data. Gap, APA, KMW and the legions of other smiths would like to thank you for buying substandard products that require their expertiese to correct. Georges Hunts and Terry's competions would not be possible without your fine donations.
Ive never had a shitty 700 and all shoot sub moa.. youre just a hater for whatever reason you have in your head.
Cobracutter you are right all custom actions are based on the Remington footprint, the barrel on the 338 Lapua does not last very long no matter who produces it and is just one of the options of do I want something better now or wait for it to burn up later. The new chassis systems make the stock Remington shoot a lot better without bedding them, having a min and max torque setting to work with to reduce the size of your groups once you get it close with the loads you use is huge. The stocks that come on them well that is another issue everyman to himself, now not every rifle shoots like a laser after a build or if you take it out of the box, that is just reality. Do I like the Badger and Surgeon actions yes, but if I can take a large factory production rifle and do the same thing with it for accuracy why do I have to rob the bank to do it. Remington just produced a new rifle for the military that is a change caliber with a complete aluminum chassis system with a side folding stock. I just don't get everyone's attitude of dogging someone on upgrading their weapons to what they want. Hell they are the one spending the money and the one that is using it, the old argument of I like a Chevy over a Ford is long gone and from being ex-military you can not make everyone happy with a single weapon system. Soldiers will always bitch about something! One of the guys on the hide posted this video within this thread on the MLR and he is using a first generation stock MLR with no upgrades to it. May not be impressive to other shooters but it is to me.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ugpZ8JYrfL4&feature=player_embedded
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ugpZ8JYrfL4&feature=player_embedded
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You pay for consitancy. For Out of 100 Rem 700's, how many will have problems? How many will have poor shooting barrels?
If your going to buy a 700 MLR and keep it stock, then great. You may even get lucky and find a good load that shoots as well with that barrel as some custom guns.
If your going to Upgrade a 700 MLR, it makes zero financial and/or logical sense to not start with a Badger or Surgeon or other from the start. You will end up with a rifle that stastically will shoot better & have a much higher resale value should you decide to move it, And it will end up costing the same or maybe less for the full build.
The new remington XM2010 or whatever, is not really even comparable here. Ignoring the fact that DoD procurement , especial weapons procurement is about as fair and unbias as a communist judge, Just about any manufacture given enough time and resources can put out a great product. Unfortunatley we have this thing called profit that most are concerned with. Remington has been shitting and skimping on their products more every year, for the last 20 years. Take a look at a 870 Wingmaster from 1990 and a 870 Express today. Take a look at a model 700 from 1985 and one from today. Look at all the parts that used to be bar stock or quality cast/forgings an d are now either cheap MIM , plastic or some other cheap cost cutting measure. To think they would just cut corners on materials and not manufacturing and QC, is just naive. The amount of lemons and non shooters, along with the entire custom industry built around fixing their fuck up 700's...... can't really argue with that.
Yea everyone has a bone stock 700 that shoots 1/2 MOA with Wolf
Yea everyone shoots .15 groups at 100 yards with their custom rigs
Yea everyone has a 11" cock
Yea everyone is married to a porn star (Porn stars love 11" cocks FYI) and lights their cigars with $100 bills.
Yea, the internet is great.
If your going to buy a 700 MLR and keep it stock, then great. You may even get lucky and find a good load that shoots as well with that barrel as some custom guns.
If your going to Upgrade a 700 MLR, it makes zero financial and/or logical sense to not start with a Badger or Surgeon or other from the start. You will end up with a rifle that stastically will shoot better & have a much higher resale value should you decide to move it, And it will end up costing the same or maybe less for the full build.
The new remington XM2010 or whatever, is not really even comparable here. Ignoring the fact that DoD procurement , especial weapons procurement is about as fair and unbias as a communist judge, Just about any manufacture given enough time and resources can put out a great product. Unfortunatley we have this thing called profit that most are concerned with. Remington has been shitting and skimping on their products more every year, for the last 20 years. Take a look at a 870 Wingmaster from 1990 and a 870 Express today. Take a look at a model 700 from 1985 and one from today. Look at all the parts that used to be bar stock or quality cast/forgings an d are now either cheap MIM , plastic or some other cheap cost cutting measure. To think they would just cut corners on materials and not manufacturing and QC, is just naive. The amount of lemons and non shooters, along with the entire custom industry built around fixing their fuck up 700's...... can't really argue with that.
Yea everyone has a bone stock 700 that shoots 1/2 MOA with Wolf
Yea everyone shoots .15 groups at 100 yards with their custom rigs
Yea everyone has a 11" cock
Yea everyone is married to a porn star (Porn stars love 11" cocks FYI) and lights their cigars with $100 bills.
Yea, the internet is great.
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Youre right cobra.. the internet is great for douchebags like yourself its awesome!
Yea its great to for new guys like you who have been on this site about 10 minutes and think you know shit....
I guess trying to reason and use logic with an idiot is impossible. I should know better.
I thought the same thing.. only im talking with someone whonis sooo safe with the umbrella of the Internet to make him feel kool.
Been on the site longer then a minute Cobracutter, something happen to my posting numbers when the site was re-done, sounds like you are a little frustrated. If you don't like it don't buy it. Lets see what you are shooting with and your skill set, 100 yards is nothing unless you live in New York City. You need to ease up, the bottom line is every shooter settles on what they want to squeeze the trigger on. I think you have made your rhetorical point on you do not like Remington so just move on.
He trolls every thread he can find with the word "Remington" in the title so he can spew his load. Just ignore him and he will only post once in the thread.
And just a little refresher on the forum rules.
http://www.snipershide.com/shooting/snipers-hide-site-information/7677-snipers-hide-forum-rules.html
http://www.snipershide.com/shooting/snipers-hide-site-information/7677-snipers-hide-forum-rules.html
That Explains It.
I see these for $1600 on gunbroker, is the gun worth it at that price point?
I agree.. 1500 is a steal!
No not yet... I listed it without the optics and rings to drop the price some. We'll see what happens.
If only I had seen this thread last year I would have known what a pos my police is.
It has a badger bolt knob, badger 20 moa rail, Callahan recoil lug and a sako extractor. What a hunk of junk I am ashamed.
It has a badger bolt knob, badger 20 moa rail, Callahan recoil lug and a sako extractor. What a hunk of junk I am ashamed.
Smcarroll,
How bad is grouping? We have had a couple guys with rifles that would not group and I am curios if Remington is dropping the ball or if everyone is just using factory loads. I reload for everything and if I buy ammo it is basically to get the cases for reloading.
How bad is grouping? We have had a couple guys with rifles that would not group and I am curios if Remington is dropping the ball or if everyone is just using factory loads. I reload for everything and if I buy ammo it is basically to get the cases for reloading.
I have never shot it for groups. I bought it as a beater saddle/truck gun and shoot 250 gr midway blemished match bullets out of it. It hits everything I point it at. I own several Remington's, this is one of my favorites. I have had a couple issues with Remington, the bolt on my xcr lrt 338 looked like stoned monkeys finished it and I had a sps 300 rum come with a defective extractor from the factory, they made it right both times.. I wont even buy factory ammo for the brass, I load everything with new components. This rifle was light years ahead of the savage 338 I broke my lapua cherry with. Even hornady brass works in it. IMO if you buy a sub 2000$ rifle and expect full on custom accuracy you are missing a few cards.
If my horse could talk I bet he would bitch lol.
I've had great luck with the Rem 700 police 308 rifles that I have had over the years! With just a little trigger work, bedding and trueing, they can shoot almost as well as my full customs. With a complete re-build, new barrel, etc they're just as accurate!
Just my 2 cents
Just my 2 cents
Well went down to Gunnison for a bit on the way back stopped at the range in Buena Vista to test some loads, my first mistake was drinking a jumbo coffee that was not decaf. Load development for the 250 grain Nosler Accubond and the 285 grain Hornady BTHP. I was using HSM cases, H1000 powder, CCI large magnum primers, 91grs, 93.6grs, 95.8grs for the 250gr Accubond. For the 285gr BTHP I used 87grs and 88grs, after shooting 3 rounds of each load, I was surprised at the difference in pressures between the Accubond and BTHP when approaching max load. Max load for the BTHP per Hornady data was 89grs, the bolt cycled smoothly and there were no cratered or backed out primers at 88grs.
Below are the BTHP targets, I am not going to put the Accubond targets up because my heart was going a mile a minute and between my wife laughing and me laughing at my groups it will definitely be a re-shoot. The range was 100 yards and my rifle was sighted in for the 225gr Accubond for a zero of 400yds. My next range session is to see how well my rifle likes the max loading of the BTHP. The 95.8grs for the Accubond started showing ejector marks on the brass and the bolt got stiff for opening, you could still open it normally without slapping it to open it.
88gr
87gr
Below are the BTHP targets, I am not going to put the Accubond targets up because my heart was going a mile a minute and between my wife laughing and me laughing at my groups it will definitely be a re-shoot. The range was 100 yards and my rifle was sighted in for the 225gr Accubond for a zero of 400yds. My next range session is to see how well my rifle likes the max loading of the BTHP. The 95.8grs for the Accubond started showing ejector marks on the brass and the bolt got stiff for opening, you could still open it normally without slapping it to open it.
88gr
87gr
THANX COBRACUTTER,
It was humorous listening to their responses. Everything you said was correct.
It was humorous listening to their responses. Everything you said was correct.
Well, I finally got my 700P fixed up where it shoots good. I changed the barrel and a couple other things and now it shoots like I needed it to. Just in time for this years elk season.
Cant post the test target as it was only 3 shot groups but they are very satisfactory. I will shoot some 5 and 10 shot groups next time out.
What stock manufacturer is this? Color?
It's a McMillan adjustable A5 in Tan and Black. The metal is all Cerakoted Black with tan splatter. I need to get some pictures of it by it's self.
Brady shot his elk this year at 630 yards with it.
Brady shot his elk this year at 630 yards with it.
Sorry no pictures. It was a 3x4. In a bad spot. Took a day and a half to get it out. Rack got busted on the 2000' pull out. 300 Berger Hybrid at 2850fps. About 36" penetration from quartering frontal shot from center chest out through far side lung then exited to the unknown. I want to say it was 94 grains of Retumbo, Lapua brass, Fed 215 primer, 3.900" OAL. We are working with RL33 and are looking to settle on 2925fps give or take.
Very nicely done, I am working on load pressures right now to see where they start, then will start working on the accuracy loading from there. I still have not used Retumbo yet because I use so much H1000 for my magnums. I feel your pain on the 2000ft haul out, my best friend from high school is hard headed and we are suppose to have a rule of no shooting small elk in the canyon. It had better be a big one to kill it in the bottom of the canyon and then we will all show up with a frying pan and stay for a while and eat it. Lol,,,Congratulations again!
It's a McMillan adjustable A5 in Tan and Black. The metal is all Cerakoted Black with tan splatter. I need to get some pictures of it by it's self.
Brady shot his elk this year at 630 yards with it.
The Mcmillian website lists several "Tan" choices.....is this the light tan?
What percent is the color combination? ration of tan to black?
I believe it was supposed to be 50/50 light tan and black. They are all over the place on color. I have a couple more that were supposed to be the same 50/50 and they look like coffee with cream. Not McSwirly at all. More like McCreamers. Easy way to find out is call Lynn at McMillan and ask about the Adj A5 Tac 338 stock for Straight Shooter Supply from late 2011 or early 2012. It's not like we build that many rifles where we supply the stocks.
Well went to the range today to check for pressure on different loads and this time no coffee, I was really smiling towards the end of my day. The 250gr Accubond showed pressure at 95.8 grains of H1000 when the bolt got stiff on unlock the best load was 93.6grains of H1000 with no pressure signs. Now time to start working between those two numbers to find the sweet spot.
Now the good stuff started the pressure testing with the 285 grain Hornady BTHP, started at 88.3 grains of H1000 and worked my way up to the magic number which was 89 grains for max loading per Hornady reloading data. Well no pressure signs at all even when I shot the loads at 89.1 grains of H1000. My MLR seemed to like that load like it was nothing. Now time to get some rounds shot across a chrono to see if I can reach 3000fps with these 285 grain bullets while checking for pressure. The range personnel today were getting a kick out of watching me do my work up today. They got a kick out of my last three rounds which made me giggle nervously like a hooker in church. The last three were the 89.1 grains of H1000,,,LOL
Rifle still zeroed for at 400 yards for the 225 grain Accubond while doing the work up at 100 yards.
Now the good stuff started the pressure testing with the 285 grain Hornady BTHP, started at 88.3 grains of H1000 and worked my way up to the magic number which was 89 grains for max loading per Hornady reloading data. Well no pressure signs at all even when I shot the loads at 89.1 grains of H1000. My MLR seemed to like that load like it was nothing. Now time to get some rounds shot across a chrono to see if I can reach 3000fps with these 285 grain bullets while checking for pressure. The range personnel today were getting a kick out of watching me do my work up today. They got a kick out of my last three rounds which made me giggle nervously like a hooker in church. The last three were the 89.1 grains of H1000,,,LOL
Rifle still zeroed for at 400 yards for the 225 grain Accubond while doing the work up at 100 yards.
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Best Accuracy R700 XCR LR Tac 338LM
Below are photos of the absolute best accuracy demonstrated with my 338LM XCR at 100 yards in a perfectly controlled environment: Harris bipod, rear bag and I actually pulled the table away and shot off the floor. From my days of shooting this rifle from 100y to 1850y the MOA demonstrated at 100y follows through transonic so barrel torque is not a factor outside of the standard MOA deviation. It is just hard for me to get excited about a "long range tactical" rifle from Big Green that shoots like crud compared to a mid-90's R700 22-250 VSSF and a current production R700 30-06 SPS in a HS stock with VAIS brake that shoot one hole groups at 200y. Not to mention my semi-autos will also shoot one hole groups at 100y, one of which cost about $1300 to build. For the money spent I would avoid a modern day "factory" R-700 that claims any kind of long range, tactical, police, etc. The 5Rs however seem to shoot lights out but are limited runs, under $1300. My total cost with the 30-06 was $600 for the rifle, $250 for the stock and $200 for the Vais. The 22-250 was $1400 back when. So my other two R-700s are sub-MOA and under $1,500. I also know that if I send it back to Remington they will tell me anything under 3-MOA is within tolerance whereas a guy like Mark Larue would probably stroke out.
The rifle
Group 1 Hornady 285 BTHP
Group 2 Hornady 250 BTHP: Interesting pattern. First shot left of vertical 9, second above horizontal 10, third inch above horizontal 9, fourth 3/4" above horizontal 10 and fifth was just above horizontal 9... plus a few extras to see what heat was doing to the barrel. I let the barrel cool and the last shot of the night was back to the last round from Group 1, almost a bullseye.
R-700 SPS in HS Stock with Vais brake
Group Hornady GMX 165
Below are photos of the absolute best accuracy demonstrated with my 338LM XCR at 100 yards in a perfectly controlled environment: Harris bipod, rear bag and I actually pulled the table away and shot off the floor. From my days of shooting this rifle from 100y to 1850y the MOA demonstrated at 100y follows through transonic so barrel torque is not a factor outside of the standard MOA deviation. It is just hard for me to get excited about a "long range tactical" rifle from Big Green that shoots like crud compared to a mid-90's R700 22-250 VSSF and a current production R700 30-06 SPS in a HS stock with VAIS brake that shoot one hole groups at 200y. Not to mention my semi-autos will also shoot one hole groups at 100y, one of which cost about $1300 to build. For the money spent I would avoid a modern day "factory" R-700 that claims any kind of long range, tactical, police, etc. The 5Rs however seem to shoot lights out but are limited runs, under $1300. My total cost with the 30-06 was $600 for the rifle, $250 for the stock and $200 for the Vais. The 22-250 was $1400 back when. So my other two R-700s are sub-MOA and under $1,500. I also know that if I send it back to Remington they will tell me anything under 3-MOA is within tolerance whereas a guy like Mark Larue would probably stroke out.
The rifle
Group 1 Hornady 285 BTHP
Group 2 Hornady 250 BTHP: Interesting pattern. First shot left of vertical 9, second above horizontal 10, third inch above horizontal 9, fourth 3/4" above horizontal 10 and fifth was just above horizontal 9... plus a few extras to see what heat was doing to the barrel. I let the barrel cool and the last shot of the night was back to the last round from Group 1, almost a bullseye.
R-700 SPS in HS Stock with Vais brake
Group Hornady GMX 165
Attachments
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I will have to agree with you on the matter of 3 moa is ridicules for Remington to state. When you put the term police to your model it should be 1 moa or less. Now my 308 and 22-250 are both sub moa along with my sons 223 which are all 700 SPS varmint models. I know load development for my 338 has been finicky depending on what bullets I am using and what velocity. I can get sub moa with a 225gr bullet. I have only shot one box of factory ammo through it and it was for smacking steel not accuracy testing
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Remington 700 Police 338 Lapua rifles
Local smith put a Hawkeye down my tube, looks like a cave man drilled it with a Makita. Called Remington, complained and they emailed a UPS tag. Well see where we stand in a few months.
Local smith put a Hawkeye down my tube, looks like a cave man drilled it with a Makita. Called Remington, complained and they emailed a UPS tag. Well see where we stand in a few months.
Good luck to you, I know this thread has gotten to the point of being a novel, but quite a few of the guys had the same issues with bad barrels. I had mine inspected immediately upon purchase with a bore scope and it was cherry. Maybe one of these days I will run some premium ammo through it to see how it behaves. Right now I have only run 10 rounds of 250gr match S&B through it and like I stated it was for wacking steel and it got the job done. S&B sent me their velocities for their ammo so I could make a range card and it performed flawlessly for the long range stuff, S&B was a well kept secret but not anymore and the price of their ammo has sky rocketed because of that.
They hold 5. Yes, DBM is Accurate Mag.
That would be your call because you will not be able to use AI mags with that bottom metal which means you are stuck with that type mag and you cannot use CIP mags either. Look at other bottom metal that will take the CIP magazines or the standard mag which are both produced by AI for the 338 Lapua.
But if your rifle is grouping well with SAMI length rounds, is there a reason to load a longer OAL, VLDs aside?
Only you will be able to decide on that depending on your needs and what your requirements are. If you went with bottom metal that can take CIP mags you can still use SAMI length rounds and leave your options open for a longer COL, bullets and powders are always under development and the AI mags are pretty much bullet proof.
From what my smith told me, those shooting CIP length are likely using Berger VLDs and typically a different chamber is reamed for those. If you the had to use SAMI length billets it would be a long jump. Agree having the option is a better plan.
I decided to keep my custom Remington Police MLR 338 Lapua Magnum. Its unfired and I had it for sale but the more I looked at it, the more I liked it and decided to keep it. In doing so, I had the stock duracoated in a custom camo pattern and I gotta say, it looks pretty awesome now, more so than before and im proud to officially say its mine to keep and share with yall, check it out! (Optic will be mounted again this week, so look past the barren rail).
Before...
AFTER...
Before...
AFTER...
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Thanx alot buddy... I say DO IT and dont look back!!!
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