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Attempting 1 Mile With Mosin-Nagant Vid

mdslammer

mdslammer

Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
Jun 3, 2010
202
11
Las Vegas, NV
I filmed my buddy Ivan, forum member "Ombre Noire", shooting his Mosin-Nagant at 1 mile.
Though he never hit steel, he comes very close. Considering the limited power of his scope
and elevation on the rifle, I thought it to be a great effort.

I know he was a disappointed not to ring the steel but all things taken
into consideration, a job well done. I know he'll be up for trying again.

Anyway, just thought I'd post it up for those who might be interested.

<iframe width="640" height="360" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/v7cM1IAU7Hg?feature=player_detailpage" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
 
Dude, that rocks and Ivan has nothing to be ashamed of hitting with 147s and pointing with a PU scope!

Volley fire (by "Firing squad") with guys on-line, shoulder-to-shoulder would have really gotten the attention of anyone standing next to that target.

Looks like you guys had fun. :)
 
Ivan needs a new spotter. Nearly every shot was left of target. Dial that man in!

Anything special done to the rifle? Very impressive not only for Ivan, but the gun too.
 
Very cool vid, he will get it. I dig the down range camera and the sounds it picked up. Great shooting! These are very underestimated rifles.
 
Awesome shooting, Ivan! :cool:

And people make jokes about the adjustment range of the rear sight on a 91/30. I agree with Sinister. It's easy to see from this video what a platoon of riflemen could do to a formation of troops with volley fire, even with irons, well inside that parameter.

If I could make one suggestion (not implying that I could have done better, or even as well, but...), I've found that getting a firm hold of the belly of the stock with my support hand, using the finger grooves, will keep my strings of fire more consistent. The goal is to keep the front of the rifle from jumping to the point that you lose sight of the target in the scope. If you can keep the target in the scope, throughout your follow-through, you might start seeing some consistent hits. But, again, I'm not downplaying that performance or criticizing, at all. Purely awesome!

John
 
Hi guys

Thanks for the comments; we had fun doing this, even if the results were disappointing, as far as ringing the steel. Below is a description of our day, I wrote this before Mark was done editing the video; I wasn't really sure of what it was going to look like, as the only reports I had were the ones I could see through the PU, which comes a bit short to really see what is going on at a mile.
I knew my reloads were accurate at 500 meters but that's as far as I ever tested the 52.5 gr of Accurate 4350. I did shoot the rifle successfully at 960 yards but it was with 44.6 gr of Varget, which I am now saving for my .308's (got a Tac Ops on the way, got to feed her the good stuff).
Anyway, here it is:


Haven't checked for a while what's going on in the MN world but here is a small contribution of keeping the fun alive :thumbup:
Short report, my buddy was filming, so the video should be available within a few days, once he is done editing.
Yesterday (1/21/14), Jean (next to dry lake bed), NV, 0800 h.
Rifle: 1943 Mosin-Nagant sniper.
Scope: 1943 PU, original.
Mods: Not much, brass/cork shims, sanded inside lower hand guard to give a bit more room to barrel/shims, slightly bent trigger spring to reach about 3.5 lbs trigger pull.
Ammo: Reloads.
Powder: 52.5 gr of Accurate 4350.
Primer: Federal (regular).
Bullet: Sierra 174 gr BTHP (.311 diameter,.303 cal)
Rifle slugged at .313.
As we were going to shoot a mile with our .338's LM (SAC and TRG42), I also took my '43 Tula sniper PU, just for the hell of it.
Shooting conditions were great (no wind). Targets were set up at 1555 yards and one mile; the furthest I ever shot the MN was 960 yards, before yesterday.
The goal was a mile, the 1555 was in case a mile would be too far. I actually wanted the first target closer (1300 yards) but our FFP did not give us a visual before 1555; too many bushes, we were shooting prone.
outstandingly :thumbdown: (should know better), didn't take note of all details but will do so next time, as I intend to do this again; so this is what I recall.
Started at 1555, didn't touch windage (0), 13 elevation. Looked at the target through the PU...and could't see it (ground and backdrop were light beige sand, not enough contrast). Target was metal silhouette 15"x24", painted white with red circle in middle. Went back to target and painted it orange fluo; back to FFP, now I could see it. First 3 shots were short but not too bad, played with elevation a bit (had some left after 13), finally got on target and grazed the holding pole twice but not the target; impacts were a few inches low but real close, windage was dead on, it was time for a mile shot . As I only had 17 rounds left (started wit 23 reloads that I made a while ago), once I realized the 1555 was doable repetitively, I switched to a mile; after all, this was the final goal.
Had to max out PU, took a shot...and was short of about 30 yards or more; the one mile target was a 24"x30" metal silhouette and due to the location, I could see this one, even though it was painted white. Amazingly, it was possible, most of the times, to see the dust report of the shots hitting the sand; I would have never thought that could be possible with the 3.5 PU but there it was. Also had 2 spotters to help (spotting scope and camera), a must in that case.
As PU was maxed out, I started using several bushes located above the target, as aiming points. Wind started to pick up some but still low. The crappy part was the post being so thick, it was covering the target, when aiming at the bushes but by the time the bullet reached the target (few seconds), I had plenty of time to move the rifle/scope to re-acquire a decent visual on target itself.
Did I managed to hit the target at a mile with my remaining 16 rounds...no...but it came so darn close many times, talking a foot or two, sometimes a bit more; darn this was frustrating...but awesome :thumbup: .
I hope the video will turn out good; it was a fun day. I will shoot again at 1555 yards but will make it the primary goal, as a mile is...a bit too far. Now, would I stand in front of an original MN sniper PU at a mile? Hell no! Anything able to hit that close to a target will send me right down to the next ditch :lol:

That's all folks :wave:
 
Fun shooting.
No reason for disappointment, did all you could do...
You never did say what that load chrono'd at (if you did I missed it) but it's safe to say that bullet was subsonic probably 500 yards or more before getting to the steel. While hits are possible, given the subsonic, unstable bullet flight for near one-third the distance a hefty portion of a "hit" would have to be luck anyway, IMO.

What will that load group from that rifle at 100 yards?

Still some awesome shooting! As you can see from my sig, I'm a fan of these rifles...They won't shoot with my Savages, but damn respectable for what they are!
 
sinister said:
Dude, that rocks and Ivan has nothing to be ashamed of hitting with 147s and pointing with a PU scope!

Volley fire (by "Firing squad") with guys on-line, shoulder-to-shoulder would have really gotten the attention of anyone standing next to that target.

Looks like you guys had fun. :)
Click to expand...


Sinister

Thanks! Affirmative, it was fun. Regarding bullets, I was cheating, bullets were .303 174 SMK BTHP, still didn't cut it. Glad I left my ego at home on that day ;)
Yeah, volley fire would work well at that range, would make anyone dance the "get the hell out of Dodge".
 
/dev/mosin said:
Ivan needs a new spotter. Nearly every shot was left of target. Dial that man in!

Anything special done to the rifle? Very impressive not only for Ivan, but the gun too.
Click to expand...

/dev/mosin

Thanks!

Yeah, let's blame the spotter; I shot him later on, off camera ;)
On his behalf, he was located on my left and the camera angle is from the right, makes it not so obvious and deceptive for viewers to have a precise idea of where some the rounds were hitting. I did disagree with him on a couple of shots but he had a x60 spotting scope, I had a x3.5 scope, couldn't argue much.
Realistically, it is a hard shot, a small target and the 174 SMK is most likely free falling for a while; trajectory probably would be affected by a rat farting along the way.
Rifle has brass and cork shims and I slightly bent the spring in order to bring the trigger pull down to safe (important) 3.5 lbs. Took these ideas from WWII Russian's and Finn's snipers; it works. Took a while to figure out shims proper thickness combo, as they need to well secured for consistency. She is a honest 1 1/4 MOA rifle at 100 meters/yards, not bad for a 71 years old rifle, scope is also from 1943.
 
Ombre noire said:
/dev/mosin

Thanks!

Yeah, let's blame the spotter; I shot him later on, off camera ;)
On his behalf, he was located on my left and the camera angle is from the right, makes it not so obvious and deceptive for viewers to have a precise idea of where some the rounds were hitting. I did disagree with him on a couple of shots but he had a x60 spotting scope, I had a x3.5 scope, couldn't argue much.
Realistically, it is a hard shot, a small target and the 174 SMK is most likely free falling for a while; trajectory probably would be affected by a rat farting along the way.
Rifle has brass and cork shims and I slightly bent the spring in order to bring the trigger pull down to safe (important) 3.5 lbs. Took these ideas from WWII Russian's and Finn's snipers; it works. Took a while to figure out shims proper thickness combo, as they need to well secured for consistency. She is a honest 1 1/4 MOA rifle at 100 meters/yards, not bad for a 71 years old rifle, scope is also from 1943.
Click to expand...

Sweet! Nice mods and great shooting!
 
ScharfshutzeK98 said:
Very cool vid, he will get it. I dig the down range camera and the sounds it picked up. Great shooting! These are very underestimated rifles.
Click to expand...

K98

Thanks!

Agreed, great job filming, Mark is also an ELR shooter and he knows what other shooters like to see on video.
Wasn't meant to be on that day but we know now that it is a possible shot...with some luck. Several hits in a row are highly unlikely but one here and there is possible. Let's say this was done for scientific research reasons ;)
 
Ivan,

Do you know the velocity of that load, by chance?

Also, for those who have never looked/shot through a PU scope before, let me try to put it in perspective. I shoot them a lot out to 600-800 yards. At 600 yards, I've been able to hit clay pigeons with them. However, even at that range, the lighting has to be just right to even see the fluorescent paint on a 4" clay (sunny and beating directly onto it). Gallon milk/water jugs are easier to see, but even those are but a speck to be balanced on the point of the reticle, even at 800. I can only imagine that an 18"x24" target at a mile is a similar affair, if not even more difficult. My hat is off to you!

John
 
Joop said:
Awesome shooting, Ivan! :cool:

And people make jokes about the adjustment range of the rear sight on a 91/30. I agree with Sinister. It's easy to see from this video what a platoon of riflemen could do to a formation of troops with volley fire, even with irons, well inside that parameter.

If I could make one suggestion (not implying that I could have done better, or even as well, but...), I've found that getting a firm hold of the belly of the stock with my support hand, using the finger grooves, will keep my strings of fire more consistent. The goal is to keep the front of the rifle from jumping to the point that you lose sight of the target in the scope. If you can keep the target in the scope, throughout your follow-through, you might start seeing some consistent hits. But, again, I'm not downplaying that performance or criticizing, at all. Purely awesome!

John
Click to expand...

Hi John

Thanks a lot, it was fun; if someone knows about these rifles and their history, it is you.
You are correct, I also noticed the jump and didn't like it, I debated changing my shooting position but, as the shots were not too far off, I stayed put. I will try your suggestion next time.
I had a lot of questions prior to getting behind the rifle; no idea of what I would see and how far I could see. Didn't know how the loads would behave that far out, all I knew is that they were mild.
I wanted to do this for a while; now I know...it is a darn hard shot but possible, when the alignment of the planets is right. I am glad the PU has a built-in coriolis effect automatic adjustment; it would have been even harder without it, these Russian Ingeniors knew what they were doing ;)
 
Interesting point on using the finger grooves to reduce muzzle jump, something I typically do not do and should try. I suspect it was Soviet taught in training because has anyone besides me ever noticed that practically every female sniper you see is holding the rifle with their left hand fingers in the grooves. I am betting they were taught to do that and women tend to follow the details in their teaching more than us guys. We think we know how to shoot and do what we want to do.
 
Joop said:
Ivan,

Do you know the velocity of that load, by chance?

Also, for those who have never looked/shot through a PU scope before, let me try to put it in perspective. I shoot them a lot out to 600-800 yards. At 600 yards, I've been able to hit clay pigeons with them. However, even at that range, the lighting has to be just right to even see the fluorescent paint on a 4" clay (sunny and beating directly onto it). Gallon milk/water jugs are easier to see, but even those are but a speck to be balanced on the point of the reticle, even at 800. I can only imagine that an 18"x24" target at a mile is a similar affair, if not even more difficult. My hat is off to you!

John
Click to expand...

John

Yes, the PU is an experience on its own; for anyone shooting modern scopes, it is a dinosaur...but often a misjudged dinosaur ;)

Regarding load velocity:
Theoretically, per manual, they should be at around 2400 fps but I did not own a chronograph when I first shot these, so I could be wrong. I was looking for a substitute powder for my 44.6 gr Varget load, as I wanted to save varget for my .308's. I recall these Accurate 4350 loads hitting exactly like my Varget loads at 100 yards; I then tried both loads at 500 meters and they were still similar, that did it for me. Still want to try the 4064, as I often heard good report on it, for the Mosin.
I now own a chronograph and will check the fps of that load; I started to clean and annealed 30 PPU brass for that test.
Congrats on the clay at 600, that's tough and so is the water gallon at 800. I didn't shoot my Mosin for several months prior to that mile shot, it was good to get behind the old Lady again ;)
 
Mike Radford said:
Interesting point on using the finger grooves to reduce muzzle jump, something I typically do not do and should try. I suspect it was Soviet taught in training because has anyone besides me ever noticed that practically every female sniper you see is holding the rifle with their left hand fingers in the grooves. I am betting they were taught to do that and women tend to follow the details in their teaching more than us guys. We think we know how to shoot and do what we want to do.
Click to expand...

Mike

Interesting point indeed, so...I went to ask my wife. She was in the Junior National Shooting Team of Moldavia (ex-USSR) and later on, was offered a job as Army sniper. Soviets did trained that way, or at least, all women did; the use of sling was also always part of the training. Another part of their training consisted on holding weights for ungodly amounts of time, arms straight out up front, in order to strengthen their shoulder muscles.
For the record, up to last year, she could kick my a.. at the range but her eyes are not as good as they used to be, so I now have an edge ;)
 
Last edited:
Glad you guys enjoyed the video. And more importantly, Ivan's willingness to share his attempt at this distance with all of you.
I know he's already working on his loads and when ready, he will try again. And I will be there to capture it on film.

Best.

MDslammer
Las Vegas, NV
 
Great job Ombre noire!

As you mentioned the scope is an underestimated dinosaur. So is the rifle. I think the next time you get out shooting there and settle in to your best position with that rifle, you'll be ringing steel with that 70 year old girl undoubtedly.

Personally, I had never really given much thought to the Mosin Nagant other than to own one because at the time they were cheap and it was another addition in my 'military' collection. Which ain't real big or original anyways. But, my Mosin @ 100 yds. can produce a 2 moa group with spam can ammo. I'm thinking if I put some really good ammo through it, it might do a lot better. This video is going to lead me to try long range with it.
 
sandwarrior said:
Great job Ombre noire!

As you mentioned the scope is an underestimated dinosaur. So is the rifle. I think the next time you get out shooting there and settle in to your best position with that rifle, you'll be ringing steel with that 70 year old girl undoubtedly.

Personally, I had never really given much thought to the Mosin Nagant other than to own one because at the time they were cheap and it was another addition in my 'military' collection. Which ain't real big or original anyways. But, my Mosin @ 100 yds. can produce a 2 moa group with spam can ammo. I'm thinking if I put some really good ammo through it, it might do a lot better. This video is going to lead me to try long range with it.
Click to expand...

sandwarrior
Thanks and same here; in 2007, didn't know anything about Mosin-Nagant but started to look into it. In '08, bought a '37 Izhevsk and was learning more about them; in '09, decent general knowledge, more focus on sniper models, bought a '43 Tula sniper.
Since then, no regrets on both purchases and plenty of fulfilling moments; these are good old solid, accurate and reliable war/hunting rifles.
Also good info out there, on how and what WWII Russian and Finns hunters and snipers used to increase their MN's accuracy. No modern stuff on mine, wanted to keep it real and get a feel for it; now I know and glad I did so.
Surplus ammo works OK, good ammo will make a difference, reloads even more so.
Good luck and have fun if you decide to go LR with yours ;)
 
Thanks for posting. Ivan, can't tell you how impressed I am. That was just incredible. Your follow thru must be text book. With 50 rounds would have had it. Job well done.
 
Deej said:
Thanks for posting. Ivan, can't tell you how impressed I am. That was just incredible. Your follow thru must be text book. With 50 rounds would have had it. Job well done.
Click to expand...


Deej

Thanks man...now let's set the record straight.
As a shooter, it bothers me to hear "you can get it with 50 rounds"; it may as well be 500. I sent 17 rounds altogether, that's with no dope. You see 15 on the video; Mark didn't edit the first 2 shots, they were short. The first shot you see on camera is actually my 3rd and it hits behind target.
It wasn't "incredible"; it was a fun day at the range and I did not get to ring steel. Don't get me wrong, it was awesome to shoot the old Lady that far but I was done after 10 shots; after that, I was just sending lead up in the air. As I mentioned before, the mile may be just a bit too far for the old Lady.
No hard feelings ;)
 
Ombre noire said:
Deej

Thanks man...now let's set the record straight.
As a shooter, it bothers me to hear "you can get it with 50 rounds"; it may as well be 500. I sent 17 rounds altogether, that's with no dope. You see 15 on the video; Mark didn't edit the first 2 shots, they were short. The first shot you see on camera is actually my 3rd and it hits behind target.
It wasn't "incredible"; it was a fun day at the range and I did not get to ring steel. Don't get me wrong, it was awesome to shoot the old Lady that far but I was done after 10 shots; after that, I was just sending lead up in the air. As I mentioned before, the mile may be just a bit too far for the old Lady.
No hard feelings ;)
Click to expand...
no hard feelings at all. and you are doing incredible on that shoot, 3.5 power scope and doing the math and watching the wind conditions I would say you was shooting about as tight as was possible. just rough figure from 1.25 moa you are looking at 20" just from the gun. cant even guess what you are getting from bullets going sub. thanks for sharing it. had my son grunting with every shot. and I bet it was fun as all get out.
 
Deej said:
no hard feelings at all. and you are doing incredible on that shoot, 3.5 power scope and doing the math and watching the wind conditions I would say you was shooting about as tight as was possible. just rough figure from 1.25 moa you are looking at 20" just from the gun. cant even guess what you are getting from bullets going sub. thanks for sharing it. had my son grunting with every shot. and I bet it was fun as all get out.
Click to expand...

LOL... "had my son grunting with every shot"...I hear you and so did Mark (filming) and Billy (spotting). OK Deej, I felt the passion on this one, thanks ;)
As I am stuck at home for a while, nothing else I can do but reloading and seating in front of computer; I noticed your post on 0933's project "Finnish M28/76". The man is talented and I cannot wait to see his range report with his "new old rifle" (originally 1900r). Now if your son is in age to have his own project and the knowledge to make it real, then I suggest for him to go to his workbench and get into it. Who knows, he may be the one hitting a mile before anybody else ;)
 
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