Everyone loves a borescope video!

pmclaine

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    Borescope images/videos seem to be popular.

    I have a sweet Winchester M70 USMC sniper tribute in build.

    Im not looking to kick the bag in on the smith so lets not go there (yet).

    The rifle is beautifully finished and bedded. Its actually a great shooter in 30-06 but I had two problems with the barrel work.

    The barrel itself is a Douglas, .308, 1/10 premium grade. was sent to the builder as a blank to have the shank done, extractor cut and finish cut/crowning.

    First issue I had with the rifle was the inability to have it extract any sort of match ammo reliably. Feeds and extracts Federal 150 grain hunting ammo just fine, will feed but wont extract Lapua 167 grain match ammo - I have to beat slap the shit out of the handle to open the bolt, wont even feed my reloads (168 SMK) that feed/extract fine in two Springfield 03s and a Garand, will feed FGMM 168 30-06 but I have to beat the bolt in order to open/extract.

    So my first concern was a chamber issue and the smith was very responsive working with me.

    Than I got a Teslong borescope.

    This barrel has plus or minus 150 rounds fired.

    The video is from chamber to bore for orientation.

    I kind of blow quickly through the chamber, not much to catch there with my untrained eye.

    The Douglas looks pretty rough for "Premium" but puts bullets in tight groups.

    It looks to me that the barrel was not "sealed" prior to bluing. The darkness in the lands I assume to be bluing not carbon.

    The real anomaly occurs at the muzzle......WTF is happening there?

    It looks like it has been counterbored with a chisel.

    When the builder saw the video he said he had no idea of any problems. He ordered a new Douglas barrel and is rebarreling the rifle.

    Any ideas, looks like the barrel spun on the indicator or something. Hideous. Surprised it shot as well as it did.

    The vid....

    <iframe src="https://onedrive.live.com/embed?cid...=C70100A2958D66A7!158&authkey=AD8p6C71nWTCJhQ" width="320" height="180" frameborder="0" scrolling="no" allowfullscreen></iframe>
     
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    pmclaine

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    Give the vid above a try.

    Im trying to get a copy on a hosting site.
     

    pmclaine

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    That “crown” is spectacular........🤣

    Thanks for replying - lets me know the vid is accessible.

    Yeah I dont know what happened there.

    As concerning as the crown is there is a "rip" in one of the lands just before the muzzle that would have to cause some issues..........yet this thing shot pretty good.


    1603370570684.png

    Sighting in with irons.....

    1603370690934.png

    5 groups of 4 with Creedmoor Sports Lapua brass, Lapua 167 Scenar ammo and a scope...

    1603370602790.png

    Its been a saga.

    My patience is wearing thin.
     

    hangunnr

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    Maybe we should do a worst looking barrel / best group thread...
     
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    DAVETOOLEY

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    Douglas doesn't lap their bores so there will be reamer marks in the grooves as well as on top of the lands. That doesn't mean it won't shoot just that it doesn't look good. Premium is just a word. XX means it was air gaged. The muzzle is obviously FUBAR'd. Just a guess but for some reason I think someone tried to make the blank longer . A replacement barrel is order here.
     

    pmclaine

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    Douglas doesn't lap their bores so there will be reamer marks in the grooves as well as on top of the lands. That doesn't mean it won't shoot just that it doesn't look good. Premium is just a word. XX means it was air gaged. The muzzle is obviously FUBAR'd. Just a guess but for some reason I think someone tried to make the blank longer . A replacement barrel is order here.
    My Douglas was XX air gauged.

    I have no issue with the Tooling marks Mr Tooley :).

    I know some will shit over a borscope picture that does not look perfectly honed like a samurai blade - not me.

    A barrel manufacturer has to work hard and purposefully to build something that will shoot worse than I can hold.

    I was really liking that Douglas and will love the new one assuming the chamber works with my ammo and the lands end at a perfect crown.

    I appreciate your knowledgeable input, thank you for jumping in.

    Really like the builder that did this personality wise, his bedding was beautiful to my uneducated eye....

    image1 (2).jpeg

    image003 (1).jpg

    Builder is a smart guy, M70s are his personal passion but smithing is a second career with the first being pretty demanding and technical.

    Do you think the end of the barrel could have come that way from Douglas.....Douglas expecting a portion of the crown end would have been removed for cut to length.

    Maybe I didnt order the blank long enough and some sort of artifact from the rifling fixturing made it into the build..........WAG?

    I specified what my finish ;length was going to be and Stan(?) was well familiar with the replacement USMC replacement M70 barrel specs Vietnam time frame.
     
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    pmclaine

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    @DAVETOOLEY

    Just saw your AO in the signature.

    Didnt you have a visitor in town last night?

    His kids stop in and buy any rifles?
     

    DAVETOOLEY

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    My Douglas was XX air gauged.

    I have no issue with the Tooling marks Mr Tooley :).

    I know some will shit over a borscope picture that does not look perfectly honed like a samurai blade - not me.

    A barrel manufacturer has to work hard and purposefully to build something that will shoot worse than I can hold.

    I was really liking that Douglas and will love the new one assuming the chamber works with my ammo and the lands end at a perfect crown.

    I appreciate your knowledgeable input, thank you for jumping in.

    Really like the builder that did this personality wise, his bedding was beautiful to my uneducated eye....

    View attachment 7451311

    View attachment 7451313

    Builder is a smart guy, M70s are his personal passion but smithing is a second career with the first being pretty demanding and technical.

    Do you think the end of the barrel could have come that way from Douglas.....Douglas expecting a portion of the crown end would have been removed for cut to length.

    Maybe I didnt order the blank long enough and some sort of artifact from the rifling fixturing made it into the build..........WAG?

    I specified what my finish ;length was going to be and Stan(?) was well familiar with the replacement USMC replacement M70 barrel specs Vietnam time frame.
    Stan's a good guy. Very knowledgeable. We've known each other for a long time. If you ordered the blank long enough to allow cutting some,1" or more, off the muzzle then there's another reason why it wasn't cut off. Just saying
     
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    FisherT&C

    Barrel Work for Bolt Actions
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    If I remember correctly you are supposed to cut 1.5 off of a Douglas blank at the muzzle end. Which it is common to need to cut some off on most blanks. That step may have been skipped.
     

    pmclaine

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    Stan's a good guy. Very knowledgeable. We've known each other for a long time. If you ordered the blank long enough to allow cutting some,1" or more, off the muzzle then there's another reason why it wasn't cut off. Just saying

    This was my original Douglas order.

    Kind of spare on information regards length but the idea the muzzle should have been cut back makes a lot of sense.......

    receipt.jpg
     

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    hangunnr

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    Seems unconscionable that a smith wouldn’t have noticed that and not brought it to your attention. If he didn’t know it was there it speaks at least to me that his QC is a little suspect.

    I’m not one that thinks everything has to be perfect to perform well but damn, this is a little beyond perfect.

    Hopefully they get you squared away.....
     

    pmclaine

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    Seems unconscionable that a smith wouldn’t have noticed that and not brought it to your attention. If he didn’t know it was there it speaks at least to me that his QC is a little suspect.

    I’m not one that thinks everything has to be perfect to perform well but damn, this is a little beyond perfect.

    Hopefully they get you squared away.....

    Working on it.

    I am a patient man as well as cheap. I have other rifles to shoot and I want what I paid my money for.
     

    Hateca

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    Looks like at least 1 inch wasn’t removed from that barrel muzzle. Some barrel makers even put a saw mark where they want you to remove.
     

    Wannashootit

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    Just my proverbial $.02
    In looking at the video, I don't see anything I would attribute to the barrel maker.
    Things go to shit at the crown, and don't extend any further into the bore than that.
    No doubt it's a terribly rough crowning job, hard to tell from the video but is that an 11 degree? Doesn't seem to be deep enough to be a recessed target crown.

    I will sometimes use a piloted 60 degree cutter to "kiss" the edge of the rifling at the crown which creates a very slight bevel to the ends of the lands- the video looks like he may have done something similar- but it is uneven (suggesting misalignment) and way too deep. One "poke" with the cutter accidentally too far into the bore might also create the damage to the lands we see.

    Fine that the builder is replacing the barrel, but personally I don't see anything suspect beyond the crown and would have just re-crowned it.
    I'm a "bird in the hand" type when it comes to barrels... a re-crown could only help (theoretically), whereas a new tube... well, we know that some just shoot better than others for reasons unknown.

    JMO, YMMV.