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Planning a build ... 6 CM too good to be true?

MPrimo

MPrimo

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Minuteman
    • Nov 17, 2011
    876
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    The Northeast
    I'm going to build up another rifle for range work and maybe a competition or two if I can find any in the northeast. I have had several nice rifles from some popular builders in .223, 6.5 CM, .308 and .300 WM. Loved the 6.5 but sold it on a whim ... A mistake. I have been reading a lot about the 6 CM and am intrigued. I don't see a negative now that Copper Creek is selling ammo .... I don't reload for it yet. I have read nearly every post on the hide regarding the 6 CM and they are all very positive. Accurate, good barrel life, low recoil, easy to reload for, etc. I guess my question is, what am I missing? Is there any down side?
     
    By the context of your post, I assume by 6cm you mean 6mm Creedmoor...?

    So as to avoid confusion in the future, be advised "6CM" generally refers to 6mm Competition Match, an improved .243 wildcat.

    6mm Creed is a good cartridge, as are 6x47, 6xc and 243.

    If you like it, go for it.
     
    Thanks for the correction ... Yes, I am referring to the Creedmoor variant. Didn't realize there was another CM.
     
    It's what I chose and will be picking mine up from accurate ordnance here soon. Get brass from GAP or size 6.5 creedmoore brass. Dies from GAP which are hornady or have custom ones made. Shoot the hell out of the 105gn Hybrids and smile! :)

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    Hopefully I will be able to report first hand experience next week. From shooting a buddies I'm beyond excited to have one of my own. Anyone have first hand experience on barrel life? I've read the same as a 243 up to 4k rounds befor any things needs to be set back. I'm going to go ahead and order another barrel just in case since I do see barrels as a consumable but it would be nice to hit 3k or so..

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    I don't see how the barrel would last much longer than a 6xc or 6x47.

    Funny thing is, I've seen the pro-6creed guys say a 6 creed barrel will outlast the xc and x47 because it runs less pressure to hit 3150fps...

    But then they'll say it outlasts a 243 because it has less powder!

    That's talking out both sides of your mouth.

    Based on x47, xc, SLR and 243, I'd guess 2000 rounds would be about right for the 6creed. Maybe a few more, maybe a few less. That is assuming great, not "OK" accuracy.
     
    I'm good with that. I chose 6mm creedmoor for a few reasons. One being I can build a gas gun and actually have the room to seat thr bullets where I want and two I have access to a ton of 6.5 creedmoore brass so that made the choice between 6mm creedmoor and the other 6mm variants pretty easy. I'm hoping to start with the gas gun here soon but need to talk to the guys at GAP to see what they recommend. I like having the option to run a bolt or gas setup in matches. Some days I feel like I'm shooting better and if that's the case I'll take the speed of the gas gun every day. On the days that I need to slow down a little the bolt comes into play. The latter is usually the most common but with all things practice makes perfect. I've got 24lbs of h4350 and 2k plus 105 hybrids, 1k plus vld's and about 500 107smk to see how long the barrel will last :)

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    Yep, 2k rounds is a lot of match shooting. I figure if the tube will honestly last a full season, that's good enough.

    I generally don't do a lot of plinking with the hotrod 6s though, I only pull them out when shooting for score.

    You make a great point regarding auto loaders. The 6creed is really well suited for that. Plus you can usually leave a match with more brass than you showed up with. Lots of shooters using the 6creed and leaving brass behind. Of course, difficult to get ONLY your brass back,
     
    Yep. I will practice with a 308 or 223 trainer that I need to build. The nice thing about the 223 trainer is I can load for it dirt cheap and still use it in some matches or let a buddy use it since it will have the same glass as my match gun. I guess the same principal of "if you can shoot a 308 to 1k I wind you can shoot anything" kinda comes into play as well with the 223. I know when I move from my 308 which has a 20" barrel to a friends 243 I feel like I can't miss regardless of what I do. I shoot at least twice a week and usually run though 100-300rnds so I get a good bit of practice. I go when it's 12* and windy as hell, raining and hot and everything between. I've only been back in the game for about a year. Before that I was out for about 8 years due to a very complicated situation so it's taking me a while to get back to where I was at back in the day. Still a very fun hobby that my family enjoys as well. My 12 year old daughter has shot to 1k with great success from a 308 and at that the 308 that she loaded from start to finish with my supervision. :)

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    Last edited:
    Team GAP guys are saying around 3,000 they're the ones actually shooting and using them up.
     
    I actually need to get some more brass ordered. I was low on fun money when I ordered my brass, dies etc so I only picked up 500. I'm sure that will last me a while though. I anneal after every 4th firing and it doesn't take me very long. I have some federal 308 brass that's on its 20th reload. Hopefully the hornady brass will yield similar results.

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    rrflyer said:
    That's why I replied...To give actual real life results over internet guesstimating.
    Click to expand...

    Gotcha.

    I'm the first to admit I've not owned and operated a 6mm Creed. However, I'm experienced enough with burning ~40gr of H4350 to propel a ~105gr 6mm pill to ~3150fps that I believe 3000 rounds of superb accuracy ain't happenin' consistently.

    ETA: Pat Sinclair recently posted [excellent] groups from his 260 with something like 5-6k rounds through. That's awesome, but not to be expected from all 260s.
     
    Last edited:
    HodgdonExtreme said:
    Gotcha.

    I'm the first to admit I've not owned and operated a 6mm Creed. However, I'm experienced enough with burning ~40gr of H4350 to propel a ~105gr 6mm pill to ~3150fps that I believe 3000 rounds of superb accuracy ain't happenin' consistently.

    ETA: Pat Sinclair recently posted [excellent] groups from his 260 with something like 5-6k rounds through. That's awesome, but not to be expected from all 260s.
    Click to expand...

    Actually it takes 41.7grs H4350 to push a 105 pill that fast, LOL
     
    Depends on how it's chambered. I've got a friend who pushes the 105 hybrids right at 3200fps out of his setup and 3050 out of another gun built by another builder. What one person sees generally is not what the other sees. That's why we all have opinions.. 3150fps I'm hoping is an accurate velocity. It gives me some wiggle room if one is pulled to chrono at a match or something. I wished the ceiling was raised to 3400 fps or something around that area. 3150fps just seems slow. I'm joking about that last part... :)

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    Picked up my 6mm creedmoor from Mark at Accurate ordnance today. Can't wait to get to the range tomorrow for some load development. Hoping for that magic 3150fps with accuracy with the 105gn Hybrids..

    Specs - tac30, brux 1-7.5 AO varment contour at 24", cerokoted Barrett Bronze , timney trigger, manners t5a with badger mini chassis etc..

    umuse2et.jpg


    9ubazumu.jpg


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    The 6mm creedmoore has performed awesome over the past 4 days. I picked it up from Mark at AO on Wednesday, had literally 40 minutes worth of load development at the range to find that perfect 3150fps (actually 3153fps if it matters) with accuracy and a ED of 8fps. The thing is an absolute laser with the 105gn Hybrids and was put to the test at a Mark Spicer course this weekend which was great Btw.

    Here is the go to load group with a magneto speed on the barrel while shooting during load development (4th 5 shot group I tested ) all were actually good but this was great, at least for me.

    First shot is the loaner then a windage adjustment to the left then shots 2-5.


    ebududub.jpg



    Downside, hornady brass sucks. I had to reload Saturday night to have enough rounds for the course today and I had a few pieces of brass that only had one firing on them have primers that I could knock halfway out by tapping it gently on my hamd/cell phone. It would be great if lapua started making some 6mm creedmoor brass or hell some 6.5 creedmoore that I could kneck down. I'm still very happy with the gun though.

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    Irokcrawl said:
    The 6mm creedmoore has performed awesome over the past 4 days. I picked it up from Mark at AO on Wednesday, had literally 40 minutes worth of load development at the range to find that perfect 3150fps (actually 3153fps if it matters) with accuracy and a ED of 8fps. The thing is an absolute laser with the 105gn Hybrids and was put to the test at a Mark Spicer course this weekend which was great Btw.

    Here is the go to load group with a magneto speed on the barrel while shooting during load development (4th 5 shot group I tested ) all were actually good but this was great, at least for me.

    First shot is the loaner then a windage adjustment to the left then shots 2-5.


    ebududub.jpg



    Downside, hornady brass sucks. I had to reload Saturday night to have enough rounds for the course today and I had a few pieces of brass that only had one firing on them have primers that I could knock halfway out by tapping it gently on my hamd/cell phone. It would be great if lapua started making some 6mm creedmoor brass or hell some 6.5 creedmoore that I could kneck down. I'm still very happy with the gun though.

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    Click to expand...

    That's some incredible shooting brother. I used to live in Hoover. We definately need to meet up some time and shoot!

    Andrew
     
    Sure I'm a member at Brocks Gap and shoot probably twice a week. Roughly 150-300rns. Pretty much the rounds to confirm zero then all the rest is off barricades. I don't do the br stuff or F-class in all reality but don't mind as long as it's shooting. I've got a few matches to prep for so ill be doing that the next two weekends but other than that I'm good. I just ordered as much 6mm creedmoor brass from GAP as they listed on their website since the brass isn't very good so I won't run out in the next few months..

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    Other than half a milimeter - what is the difference between a 6 Creed and 6.5 CM? Any practical differences in accuracy, range, wind, reloading, barrel life, etc? Why would you choose one over the other?

    I ask, because I'm mulling over the idea of a new build and can't decide between the usual suspects (.260, 6.5CM, 6XC, 6x47, 243, etc). I hadn't heard much about the 6 Creed until now and wondered why I should add it to the list? Thanks in advance.
     
    Well ... everything is in motion for my 6 Creed build. RWS is building the barreled action (R700, Bartlein Medium Palma @ 25" threaded, Remmy trigger, Badger knob and fluted bolt). Manners stock is on the delivery truck. Steiner 5-25 MSR and Seekins rings are on the way. Ordered ammo from Copper Creek last night. Waiting patiently ... sort of. Stock is GAP camo, action finished in OD. Will probably upgrade the trigger at some point. Will assess the need for a brake after shooting it. Thanks for feeding my addiction ...
     
    I admit i love 243 and that i have never owned a 6 creed. Having said that i still wonder how it is possible to get the claimed barrel life. I run 42.5 gr h4350 in my 243 w/ 105 vldh or hybrids. I get anywhere from 3070-3200 in 4 different rifles with barrel lengths of 24-28". The two older rifles are closing in on 2k per rifle, still shoot under1/2 moa. I have been shooting6.5 creed for awhile and that brass usually goes 8-10 reloads before pockets get too loose, 140@2845. Sounds like ur load might be a little hot if u trash some brass in 1"2 reloads. Hey gorski, how many accuracy records does the 6 creed hold compared to 6 br, thought so.lol
     
    No need for a break all 6 mm rounds are easy to shoot. But this will be one badass rig! Let me know how you like the Stiener scope. They have been intriguing me for quite some time.
     
    I run a break and I can watch the bullet impact on steel at 100 yards from a neeling position. It's all personal preference I suppose but I prefer them. Just very disappointed in the brass.. I guess if it pisses me off enough I'll go to lapua 22-250, neck turn and all that or just keep it on the way from GAP which is somewhat out of stock now.

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    Irokcrawl, is 6 creed just a nk down process from 6.5 creedmoor? Seems midway and creedmoor sports usually have 6.5 creedmoor instock. I believe that 22-250 converted to creedmoor is a decent process and the resulting brass has a rather short nk. 243 brass seemed to be the more popular route at one time. I believe there was a step by step guide in the reloading section over at 6.5 creedmoor com.
     
    yes you can neck down 6.5mm creedmoor to get 6mm creedmoor. Very straight forward. GAP has proper head stamped 6mm creedmoor brass from Hornady but I have primers almost falling out after a single firing so i guess I'm just going to count the hornady brass as somewhat disposable. It wasn't on all pieces but 2 or 3 out of 100 or so pieces that I checked I could just tap on my cell phone and the primer would almost fall out. Some are still as tight as new virgin brass so maybe it was a few odd ball pieces and I'm being over critical. I'm used to getting 15-20 reloads out of my 308 brass (Federal) so to only think I will get maybe 4-5 somewhat sucks. I could go the 22-250 route but don't feel like putting in the work to get the final product. Ill keep ordering 6mm or 6.5mm creedmoor brass until someone comes out with something better. Nosler makes some but if its anything like their 308 brass its the same junk.

    NotSo- I'm pushing mine right at 3152fps with a 105gn Berger hybrid which as far as wind is concerned it doesn't really care to be honest; at least out to 725yards. I may hold 1/10th or 2/10th from time to time when I see the mirage start going a little more left to right instead of vertical but that's it. Basically its a laser like a lot of the other 6mm variants but I have tons of room in my mags now since its inherently shorter than say a 243 (Brass that is) so I can seat them at 2.730 (what I seat mine at) which will also work all day long in an AR10 based setup (one reason I went 6mm creedmoor over some of the other 6mm varients) also zero recoil which is a benefit in PRS style matches.
     
    Resurrection! Ok … so I started the thread so now I get to finish it. I went 6mm Creedmoor from Robert Snyder. R700 action, medium Palma barrel, Calvin Elite trigger, bolt fluting, knob job, etc. The color combo was a bit vexing at first … not exactly what I had planned … but it is growing on me. Range trip this weekend. Pics or it didn't happen …




     
    What are you shooting bullet wise? I just got done with load development on the 4th 6mm Creedmoor (my second) other than the brass quality I love the thing. The wife has probably just taken over this one since it's in a carbon XLR chassis so it's adjusted to her and a little lighter than mine in a manners t5a. The 105gn hybrids and h100v have proven to work better for me than h4350. Lower ES, better groups and higher velocity with less of a charge.

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    Second one in an XLR chassis..

    Same specs listed above with a bartline 1-8 237 vs the 1-7.5 236 brux on the other. The bartline is definitely the slower barrel but has a different bore and I'm running bn coated 105gn hybrids now so basically add 2 full grains to get to same velocity as the naked bullets on same barrel.

    avatagu4.jpg


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    6brshooter said:
    Hey gorski, how many accuracy records does the 6 creed hold compared to 6 br, thought so.lol
    Click to expand...

    Wait, it's still pretty new. My 6 Creeds held their own yesterday against many 6BRs, some I beat, some just beat me by a little, I believe I came in 6th place, pretty sure I had the only 6 Creeds in the match. The guy that won(small group of the day) was shooting his buddies 6BR and probably bumped me out of taking 1st in 'B' class. My best here with DTACs, Hybrids let me down, again.
    hu5RudK.jpg
     
    Irokcrawl said:
    I run a break and I can watch the bullet impact on steel at 100 yards from a neeling position. It's all personal preference I suppose but I prefer them. Just very disappointed in the brass.. I guess if it pisses me off enough I'll go to lapua 22-250, neck turn and all that or just keep it on the way from GAP which is somewhat out of stock now.

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    Click to expand...

    Have you tried the TulAmmo primers? I believe they tend to be larger than most primers.
     
    Speaking of brass does anyone know if other brass companies are going to start making the 6mm creed?
    Toni
     
    Got a GAP 6 creedmor as payment for some work I did. Had 94 rounds down the tube. Also got 106 rounds of copper creek 105 hybrids. I still haven't made up my mind if I want to sell it and upgrade my other Gaps and customs but here is 4 shots after I took 2 shots to sight in. This is the ONLY time I've freaking shot the thing. Decisions .... Decisions... :)




     
    Papagallos said:
    Have you tried the TulAmmo primers? I believe they tend to be larger than most primers.
    Click to expand...

    I know Zac does have some, as I do. I have 5 plus firings on my brass and most primer pockets are pretty tight yet, even with other than Tula primers.
     
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