• Watch Out for Scammers!

    We've now added a color code for all accounts. Orange accounts are new members, Blue are full members, and Green are Supporters. If you get a message about a sale from an orange account, make sure you pay attention before sending any money!

Vortex Razor HD 85mm or Zeiss Diascope 65mm?

R

rommel500

Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
Sep 9, 2009
290
15
44
SLO,CA
Let's forget that you can get the reticle eyepiece for the Razor and just compare them in the non reticle eyepiece versions.

Anybody have experience behind these two side by side or looked through them both? I would be using these for hunting / target shooting and possibly taking them backpacking so weight does have a small factor. I know the prices are a bit more for the Zeiss but I wonder if its worth it over the Razor? I know the warranty is better on the Razor. Will I be missing out on optical quality on the Razor vs. the Zeiss and is the size gain on the Razor worth it?

Will I see much difference in the 85mm objective vs. the 65mm? Will I be missing out on optical quality on the Razor vs. the Zeiss and is the size gain on the Razor worth it?
 
I may have some insight after tomorrow. We have a long range practice scheduled for tomorrow and I will be bringing my new Razor HD 85mm with 30X WA eyepiece and one of the other guys has a Zeiss 65mm. We can compare them side by side.
 
I was incorrect. The other spotting scope was a Zeiss 85mm diascope (with 20-60 eyepiece). In my unbiased? opinion the Zeiss and the Razor HD were equally sharp. The Razor (with 30X WA eyepiece) had a wider field of view than the Zeiss at 30X and the Razor had slightly better contrast than the Zeiss.
 
One Wolf, interesting observation! That Zeiss had the fluorite glass? I'm pulling the trigger on a spotter myself and have been leaning towards the Meopta S2, but that Razor has been popping up and am not sure anymore! Is it really that good and how far were your observations? Thanks


Onewolf42 said:
I was incorrect. The other spotting scope was a Zeiss 85mm diascope (with 20-60 eyepiece). In my unbiased? opinion the Zeiss and the Razor HD were equally sharp. The Razor (with 30X WA eyepiece) had a wider field of view than the Zeiss at 30X and the Razor had slightly better contrast than the Zeiss.
Click to expand...
 
I had both for several weeks to evaluate. For me the 85mm Vortex was so big I had ZERO interest in taking it anywhere other than a range. I took optical charts and various other things out to distance.

The edge to the 15-45x65mm Zeiss in image resolution and clarity.

The 60x of the Razor made up for a bit less resolution by being able to reach a higher mag.

In the end, hunt down a used Zeiss ($1200 or so) and take it everywhere! The Vortex may have a great warranty but with good optics you should not need it.
 
Also I will tell you there is a big fit finish difference between the Razor and Zeiss.

Simply put you need to analyze what your purposes are. IF you never intend to pack it any real distance then go with the Razor for the extra mag and size is not an issue. If you plan on carrying it around with other gear you will be very well suited with a Zeiss T65. The other issue is the more magnification you have the more mirage will mess with you. Having a crisper 45x of the Zeiss will be better than less resolution 45x of the Razor or having to crank the Razor up to 60x to see what your after and having mirage be a bigger factor.

Needless to say under good conditions one can see 6.5mm bullet holes through a 45x Zeiss at 500-600 yards. How much more do you need?
 
Weight would be a factor as I will be using this on long hunts and long range competitions. Now I am more leaning towards the Zeiss.... a couple days ago it was towards the Razor.... Tough decision!

For the Zeiss is it better to go for the 15-45 eyepiece or the 15-56 eyepiece?
 
Your talking 1100-1300 for the Zeiss or Razor. A Swaro is a whole another ball game.

I would rather have a larger FOV for scanning for game than an extra 10x up top. Also as power goes up light transmission goes down, especially when low light hunting.

I prefer 10 or 15 to 40 or 45 over 60x stuff. Also you have to look at spotters as a system just like a rifle and its scope. The higher mag spotters that also weigh more require more substantial tripods. Take a razor and a 1.5lb Silk tripod out and you won't be happy with the results. Where as you take that Razor and a monfrotto 150 heavy duty tripod 4lbs and the image will be much better. Again more weight to be carried.

I personally carry a Monfrotto CXPro3 carbon tripod with 322rc2 grip ball head and 95% of the time I use my Leopold GR 12-40x60mm with TMR because I like a reticle in my spotting scope. When I go hunting, I carry the Zeiss with either the same tripod or a Slik if I needed to go lighter (about a 1 3/4 pound difference). The Slik has a LOT more vibration versus the super stable monfrotto.
 
There is always the lighter Vortex Razor HD 16-48x65 as well. A more apples to apples comparison as far as size and weight as well as magnification. Lighter than the larger 85mm spotter.

Can't say anything bad about the Zeiss though. They make excellent optics as well.
 
I have owned the 85mm Zeiss and the 85mm Vortex, both will do the job you...BUT I must say making the change to the Swaro STX with 95MM objective/big tripod and the 65MM objective with a small lightweight tripod is the most usable/versatile/optically superior setup I have ever had.
 
rommel500 said:
Will I see much difference in the 85mm objective vs. the 65mm? Will I be missing out on optical quality on the Razor vs. the Zeiss and is the size gain on the Razor worth it?
Click to expand...

How many times do the girls need to tell you, size matters! haha jk!

Seriously tho for tripod use bigger the better why not, for backpack use just get something packable with high quality glass in it.

consider this, what is the point of a super duper big ass spotter that has great range and twilight capabilities if your rifle scope does not have the same ability thus not allowing you to take the shot anyway?

for hunting i stick with an optic close in ability to my scope so I can shoot what I see, on the range i'd go all out and get something that could see the paper holes at 1,000 so you don't have to go down and check!
 
I am trying to stay in the sub $2k range if possible so that is why I pitted the 85mm razor and 65mm diascope against each other.
 
For me at least in low light conditions the superior optic enables me to find the game I am pursuing. I may spot the bull I want right at dusk 2 miles away with my 95mm Swaro, put him to bed, then ready myself for a pre-dawn stalk without the big optic in my pack. Perhaps my 65mm objective will go with me or I will just rely on my 12x50 binocular/lite tripod setup for the pursuit. Or I may simply see an antler tip in the shadows or tall grass at 500-100 yards with the best glass available. True, I may come back empty handed and sometimes I bag the very trophy I spotted just hours earlier but at least it increases my odds when I know where the quarry is/was - and the excitement is about the stalk for me, nothing better than a spot/stalk/harvest!

If I were to pick just one Spotter it would be a 65mm for packing, much better than leaving it in the truck. Kind of like packing heat...Better to have it and not need it, than to need it and not have it.

 
  • Like
Reactions: Wyzrd
I recently sold a Razor 20-60x85 after Doug at CameraLand NY got me a great price on a new Diascope FL T 20-75x85.
The 20-75 Vario eyepiece is a bit better than the 20-60 it replaces.
The same eyepiece on the Zeiss 65 body is good for 15-56 power.
If you opt for the Zeiss, get the new eyepiece to get the most out of it.

Before shipping off the Razor, I did a side by side.
The Zeiss had a slight edge in brightness.
I could not see any difference in resolution... both were (are) fantastic.
The Zeiss carries the brightness and resolution all the way to 75x.

My guess is the Razor 85 is going to be much brighter and possible resolve better than the Diascope 65. There's no overcoming the advantage an 85mm has over a 65mm objective, unless the 85mm optic is crap. In this case it is not.

If you can deal with the extra weight and size, get the Razor, hands down. It comes with a nice case, and eyepieces with ranging reticles are available for around $200. CameraLand has a demo Razor 85mm for $1350. Given my experience with CLNY's demos (great) and Vortex's warranty (great) I'd buy this unit over a new one in a heartbeat if I was in the market.
http://www.cameralandny.com/optics/vortex.pl?page=vortexrazor

If I didn't have optics ADD, I would have another grand in the bank and still have a great spotter.
 
Last edited:
rommel500 said:
I am trying to stay in the sub $2k range if possible so that is why I pitted the 85mm razor and 65mm diascope against each other.
Click to expand...

if you are going with the 85mm vortex, get a used or old new stock unit built in Japan
the new ones from china are not nearly as nice...especially do not like the coarse focus adjustment/fit finish for sure took a hit when they took the razor spotter line to china
 
DetroitRearView said:
if you are going with the 85mm vortex, get a used or old new stock unit built in Japan
the new ones from china are not nearly as nice...especially do not like the coarse focus adjustment/fit finish for sure took a hit when they took the razor spotter line to china
Click to expand...

Wait, what?! The Razor spotters are now made in China?! WTF?! I think that sealed the deal for me right there. I just have a hard time spending $1500 for a spotter made in China....
 
rommel500 said:
Let's forget that you can get the reticle eyepiece for the Razor and just compare them in the non reticle eyepiece versions.

Anybody have experience behind these two side by side or looked through them both? I would be using these for hunting / target shooting and possibly taking them backpacking so weight does have a small factor. I know the prices are a bit more for the Zeiss but I wonder if its worth it over the Razor? I know the warranty is better on the Razor. Will I be missing out on optical quality on the Razor vs. the Zeiss and is the size gain on the Razor worth it?

Will I see much difference in the 85mm objective vs. the 65mm? Will I be missing out on optical quality on the Razor vs. the Zeiss and is the size gain on the Razor worth it?
Click to expand...

I've used several different [85mm] Vortex HDs' alongside my Zeiss 65T FL at distances beyond 1 mile in temperatures between 55-115F. My 65T FL was the previous version (non-rubber armored, crinkle finish), and the Razor HDs' were also previous (Made in Japan) versions. The Zeiss 65T FL wins hands-down! Even though the Razor HD has a 20mm Objective Lens diameter advantage (85mm compared to the 65T FL's 65mm Objective Lens), the 65T FL has superior optical performance. The 65T FL's brightness, clarity, resolution, and edge-to-edge sharpness is much better.

As far as pricing goes, I would look for a demo or a lightly used 65T FL in either the previous generation (non-rubber armored, crinkle finish) or a newer (current) generation. The older (non-rubber armored, crinkle finish) model can be found in good used condition with the 15-45X Zoom for about $1,200.00 US. Add the 30X Mildot Eyepiece and you're golden. I sold my 65T FL with 15-45X Variable Eyepiece and ($95.00 Zeiss) Neoprene Cover for $1,400.00 after using it side-by-side with my Optolyth S80 HD for several months.

Yes, Vortex Optics has super Customer Service and Vortex's warranty service is stellar. Warranties are important and can certainly save you a lot of money over time. However, warranties are no substitute for overall performance. Personally, I'm more concerned with the actual performance of a product than it's warranty so Vortex's warranty wouldn't sway me away from a Zeiss.

As far as 85mm versus 65mm goes, since the 65T FL's performance is better than that of the Razor HDs' (both 65mm and 85mm), the heavier weight and bulk of an 85mm Razor HD is definitely NOT worth it. It's just dead weight and bulk. Don't do it.

Lastly, to address the issue of a reticle-equipped Eyepiece, JL posted that he has a stock of the [Zeiss] Mildot Eyepieces (30X on a 65T FL, 40X on an 85T FL), so you can have the great performance and lightweight of the 65T FL and a MIL-based Eyepiece. One thing that I don't like about the Zeiss Mildot Eyepiece (along with other reticle-equipped Eyepieces), is that the reticle is static, and can't be independently oriented to be square with the horizon as with a rotating reticle eyepiece such as on the Optolyth MIL Eyepiece. Other than that, a 65T FL and the Zeiss Mildot Eyepiece are the hot ticket.


Keith
 
Last edited:
DetroitRearView said:
if you are going with the 85mm vortex, get a used or old new stock unit built in Japan
the new ones from china are not nearly as nice...especially do not like the coarse focus adjustment/fit finish for sure took a hit when they took the razor spotter line to china
Click to expand...

Damm that's the first I heard if this. Unfortunate.

I picked up the 85mm razor a few years back and they are pretty outstanding for the money. I had the exact same dilemma of zeiss vs razor and figured the warranty would pay off in the long run.

I thought I had mine sold, but the buyer flaked. Now I'm just going to keep it. The 65mm razor looks good too.
 
Wow I was contemplating the Vortex Razor in 85mm... but with this "made in China" thing, I think i'll look elsewhere.
 
hk dave said:
Wow I was contemplating the Vortex Razor in 85mm... but with this "made in China" thing, I think i'll look elsewhere.
Click to expand...

Agreed, I understand that other scopes may have parts from China on them, etc. But when the product is labeled made in China it has a significant amount of parts / labor from China. I try to avoid buying products from China whenever possible. This is one of those situations.

I really think they are a great company, but this spoils their spotter line for me. I see this is as a poor move by Vortex, though this is just my humble opinion.
 
DetroitRearView said:
I have $1300 invested in the 2 tripods and $4500 in the scope setup
Click to expand...

Serious question here, why not just have 2 scopes? For instance, you could get a Kowa 883 with 20-60x eyepiece and a Kowa 773 with a 25x LER for right around the same price, and be able to use both at the same time if you wanted(wife, kids, buddies, etc). If you don't have the whole Swaro kit with you all the time, it really doesn't seem to offer any advantage at all. And even if you do, it would seem that you would still be hauling about the same amount of gear as you would with 2 scopes.
 
hk dave said:
Wow I was contemplating the Vortex Razor in 85mm... but with this "made in China" thing, I think i'll look elsewhere.
Click to expand...


The body of my new Diascope 85 FL T was made in China.

Nevertheless, it is reeks of typical Zeiss quality.

It has a transferrable lifetime warranty.
 
Erud said:
Serious question here, why not just have 2 scopes? For instance, you could get a Kowa 883 with 20-60x eyepiece and a Kowa 773 with a 25x LER for right around the same price, and be able to use both at the same time if you wanted(wife, kids, buddies, etc). If you don't have the whole Swaro kit with you all the time, it really doesn't seem to offer any advantage at all. And even if you do, it would seem that you would still be hauling about the same amount of gear as you would with 2 scopes.
Click to expand...

Good question, this my is my serious answer...when you get into Kowa (fabulous), Zeiss (great), Swarovski (phenom) Vortex (really really good) it is never about the $$. It is simply about preference. It is what I like. I have owned all of these as well as several others.

I love the Swarovision coatings on the new Swaro spotters, the system is fantastic for digiscoping with a very well thought out system instead a bunch adapters to adjust.

Besides, If I really want to have to share two scopes at the same time I will buy another ocular...then I can have a straight or angle on either the 95MM or the 65MM, very versatile.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

P
Spotters Vortex does it again
Replies
20
Views
2K
Baron23
Baron23
P
Rifle Scopes Zeiss S3 6-36 vs Tract 4.5-30
Replies
6
Views
778
penguinofsleep
P
A
Vortex Razor Gen 3 (6-36x56) vs. Zeiss LRP S3 (6-36x56) opinions??
Replies
76
Views
7K
Scopeye
S
Lowlight
ZEISS Offers Spring Savings
Replies
4
Views
1K
CSTactical
CSTactical
TheMoondog
Vortex Razor HD GenIII 1-10x24
Replies
6
Views
637
Charmingmander
Charmingmander
Top Bottom
Back