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Gunsmithing Thread profile question

Twisted300Win MAG

Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
Apr 16, 2012
439
16
38
Michigan
This may have been covered already. I've searched and came up with nothing here. I know threads are supposed to engage on the flanks and the fit is determined by the pitch dia not the major dia. My question is, how are you creating you flats on the top of your thread. What I've done is, cut the threaded portion of the tenon 0.002 smaller the the major dia of the action and cut the threads until they screw in with no play. This works well for me I end up with a even flat on the tops of my threads. I've seen people cut to full profile and go back and "knock the edge off" the top of the threads. I'm just curious if I'm on the right track and how others are going about this. Also how much of a flat are you guys using? If I'm wrong please correct me.
Thanks
Donald
 
You got it man. That's pretty much the way unless you want to measure over wires. I do that if I don't have a test fit part
 
Donald-
I've used both methods you describe. I prefer to turn tenon down slightly undersize and then thread. I get a more uniform finish to the tops of the thread. But like everyone who has done this, sometimes I haven't quite got the clearance I thought I did and end up "knocking" off the tops of the threads. If you're not careful threading at full diameter then taking off tops you can get a loose fit. I like the tenon undersized when threading so that near the end of threading as I check the fit I don't get a false "its too tight" feel ( from the top of the threads bottoming out before the flanks are in contact) I want the pieces to turn up with slight resistance, no wobble/wiggle, until shoulders meet. If you have to wrench it all the way on its too tight. I can get that fit better with a slightly undersized tenon to begin with.

Keith

Keith
 
Try using full form inserts to thread with. You will need a different insert for 24TPI versus 16 or 18 TPI, as the insert is set to cut a full profile and each TPI is different depth.

I turn the tenon to size ( machinists handbook is your friend, unless it is a trued, not standard thread like in a trued action. I hit it with a light coat of red dykem, while that is drying I set the stops on the carriage. Take a light .003 pass, double check the thread count with a gauge, then make progressive passes until dykem is gone, double checking against the infeed to determine when I get to full depth. I will usually make one spring cut, after I arrive where I should be, put a small chamfer on the starting side,

Clean up with brakleen, then use a thread file to dress any remaining burrs. SInce I almost use exclusively stainless barrels and lots of SS actions, any burr is a Bad Thing. Run the action on with a little light oil like 3 in 1, check for looseness. If I get any resistance whatever I back off check for burrs etc. After you've done a few, you can feel in the first two rounds whether its right or tight. If it's tight, it gets another light cut, cleaned and de-burred again.

If it is for an action that is glued in like a BR rifle, it isn't as easy to check that fit. That is usually when the thread wires come out, and the old barrel becomes the test piece for the new. I keep a sheet on every action/barrel I do, with the as left tenon dimensions, so that I can fit a new barrel , without having the action in hand.

I have to imagine most of the guys doing large numbers of rifles, like GAP or LR are using either a standard system and dimensions or have very good records to refer to.

I'll try to get a closeup of a full form insert later today and upload that, if you haven't seen one before. I like them, and it makes really good threads, although I also have some HSS ones also.
 
Mike
I've only used the Arthur r Warner HSS inserts. They seem to be the way to go for a beginner. Especially since I thread @ slower speeds. 50-90 rpm
 
Those are great, I have some also, but don't use them so much. I can thread a lot faster on my primary lathe, up to a shoulder even, so I use the carbide. I'll get a picture of what I use, along with the tool holder, so you can get some if you like.

They will still work OK at slower speeds, just not as nice a finish. The Vipers Venom will help. I use a dark hi sulfur pipe threading oil, in the winter I have to cut it a little with mineral spirits, as it gets like molasses then. I ought to switch over to the Venom, but still have a bunch of the Rigid stuff.
 
full form inserts are a great invention but I have so many different thread pitches to deal with I stick with the "universal" inserts.
 
I use full-form inserts for the "standard" pitches (16, 20, 24, etc.).

Carmex makes a decent external threading set for about $100 that includes a toolholder and 10 inserts (7 full-form and three universal 60-degree, if I recall correctly). Pick up a half-dozen or so extra inserts in whatever threads one is using for tenons and muzzles, and one will be in good shape.
 
This may have been covered already. I've searched and came up with nothing here. I know threads are supposed to engage on the flanks and the fit is determined by the pitch dia not the major dia. My question is, how are you creating you flats on the top of your thread. What I've done is, cut the threaded portion of the tenon 0.002 smaller the the major dia of the action and cut the threads until they screw in with no play. This works well for me I end up with a even flat on the tops of my threads. I've seen people cut to full profile and go back and "knock the edge off" the top of the threads. I'm just curious if I'm on the right track and how others are going about this. Also how much of a flat are you guys using? If I'm wrong please correct me.
Thanks
Donald

I agree what the previous posters have said. Use the Machinist's Handbook. To see it, look here:

Unified Thread Standard - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

It's what I've always done and it works well.

Brad
 
Twisted, here are a couple pictures of what I was using yesterday:
The insert


And the toolholder,


Note the broken corner of the insert - run it into the shoulder, and it will break! Better than having to regrind though, just turn the insert and carry on. Oh, and re-zero your work!

Hope this helps,
 
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THE THREAD FIT IS MOST IMPORTANT.HOW YOU GET THERE CAN BE DONE SEVERAL WAYS..... MOST COMMON TRIAL BY HAND.THE CREST WIDTH OF THE THREAD IS RELATIVE TO THE PITCH..... i.e. pitch/8.....THIS IS GOOD TO KNOW .....
 
Note the broken corner of the insert - run it into the shoulder, and it will break! Better than having to regrind though, just turn the insert and carry on.

Heh - I have quite a collection of inserts that look very similar. There are the big hits into a shoulder that are very obvious, but what really sucks is when an ever-so-small corner gets knocked off and I don't notice it right away. I've found it important to inspect both the insert and the part on each pass.

Such inserts might seem a bit pricey (especially when first climbing the learning curve, or when just having one of those days), but in the grand scheme of things they are very economical.
 
EB - it's funny you should say that - I was taught to always feed in on a 29.5 degree on the compound when threading. I use the quick thread feature on my Hardinge for 99% of my threading tasks. I can set that to pull out right, and I mean RIGHT AT, the shoulder. Guess what, feeding in with the compound, eventually you'll run that pretty little bit into the shoulder, with the misery that generates. And it's going to be on one of the last passes, so you get to start over, with a new corner.

And interestingly I am getting just as good a finish on the threads, feeding straight in, and not worrying about crashing the bit into the shoulder.

I swear though, I am going to buy a tool holder for each thread pitch, and leave it set up, rather than swapping inserts, and forgetting which insert is which pitch! You can cheat a little bit, using a larger pitch on a smaller pitch thread, but use an 18 on a 16, and see if you can screw the barrel into the action! Put the thread wires on it, and discover the awful truth.....
 
I swear though, I am going to buy a tool holder for each thread pitch, and leave it set up, rather than swapping inserts, and forgetting which insert is which pitch! You can cheat a little bit, using a larger pitch on a smaller pitch thread, but use an 18 on a 16, and see if you can screw the barrel into the action! Put the thread wires on it, and discover the awful truth.....

My Carmex full-profile inserts have the ISO designation written on the side. Very handy.