Wax?

[xdeano]

Has anyone ever used wax on their bolt lugs, raceway, etc, instead of grease?

Its proven that wax has less friction then grease or oil on metal parts. It repels water, mud and sand.

I've got a recipe that should work for this application. Just curious if anyone has messed with it.

Wax will also cause less gulling, doesn't break down as fast, doesn't collect dirt, sand. Doesn't turn to a black sludge, which is the grease with small particles of dirt and metal.

Thoughts?

Deano

 

[...]

Hope you dont have to use it in the cold.

Also as it heat up its going to run, and then when it cools its going to solidify....which could cause issues with firing oin and trugger groups

 

[xdeano]

Well this recipe goes on as a liquid. Evaporates off and leaves a very thin residue of wax behind. It shouldn't be a huge issue in the cold. Lots of guys that I know use this same recipe for cold weather operations and on high friction metals. It also is great as a metal sealer, or rust inhibitor.

xdeano

 

[xdeano]

It isn't car wax, boot wax, leather wax, imperial sizing wax or candles. It is a mixture of a few thing.

 

[Petrov]

Sure! I love having gummy substances make their way into my firing pin hole and my FCG.

 

[...]

i mean, i will say......firearms are not terribly demanding systems as far as lubrication is concerned.......they are low temp, low duty cycle, and low speed (as far as machine parts are concerned).........that bottle of 3-in-1 works just as well as "wonderlube 900".....and i mean, ive used pretty much every lube out there....all work the same to me.

in fact, if your gun NEEDS a certain type of lube to run properly......your gun sucks....period.

i really dont understand the whole fascination with lube in the gun industry


if the wax youre using is designed for machine parts (honestly it sounds a lot like the wax lube they use on bike chains).......and it runs well in your gun, rock out.....if its cheap...even better.

 

[xdeano]

I'm just throwing it out there to see if anyone has ever used a wax as a lubricant on bolts lugs.
deano

 

[xdeano]

Sure! I love having gummy substances make their way into my firing pin hole and my FCG.

It wouldn't be applied with a bitter knife. It would actually be thinner than the lug grease most guys use.
deano

 

[Petrov]

If you look at a typical rem700 style action you will see how it will quickly wind up in your FCG.

 

[xdeano]

If you look at a typical rem700 style action you will see how it will quickly wind up in your FCG.

It wouldn't be any different than the grease. I've used grease for years and I've never had an issue with grease building up in my fcg or on the action lugs. I'm not talking about hosing it down like a guy would with oil on an m4.

xdeano

 

[Petrov]

It wouldn't be any different than the grease. I've used grease for years and I've never had an issue with grease building up in my fcg or on the action lugs. I'm not talking about hosing it down like a guy would with oil on an m4.

xdeano

Except it would be. One substance is grease the other as wax
its like saying ive been using KY for buttsex a long time, sand should work just as well

 

[Westex6.5]

I would run grease on the lugs but I run a dry chain lube on my bolt body. Last a long time and doesn't attract dust like oil and grease

 

[xdeano]

Except it would be. One substance is grease the other as wax
its like saying ive been using KY for buttsex a long time, sand should work just as well

I'm sure glad you're an open minded person.
xdeano

 

[vh20]

Its proven that wax has less friction then grease or oil on metal parts.

Deano

It is? Not being contrary, but I've never seen that before. Can you elaborate?

Sorry, I don't have an opinion on your question, but the above quote caught my eye. I guess my question is, if that's the case, why isn't it used universally, instead of the grease and oil which are? (And I'm assuming you're not just referring to gun parts here).

 

[Sniperwannabee]

What is this secret recipie?

 

[WeiserBucks]

Put any lube you can find on your finger tip , touch the ground and look at your fingertip .

Now tell me it doesn't attract dirt/dust .

 

[xdeano]

Sure, what do you use on a shuffleboard? Wax.
what do people use on their cars for protections? Wax
What do guys use for resizing brass? Wax
What do people use on drawers that are stiff to open? Wax
Its put on surfboards, skateboards.
Guys put it on traps to speed them up.

Chevy Chase uses wax on his saucer and flies down the hill. Obiously not real, but there is some realistic uses.

I saw a graph once that showed the frictional force of a bunch of different oils and wax had the least frictional force. If I can find it, I'll post it.

Xdeano

 

[xdeano]

[No message]

 

[xdeano]

Hope this helps. The chart shows frictional force of oils, greased and wax. You guys can read a chart.
thought now?
Xdeano

 

[vh20]

There's something missing in that chart. "Watts Expended" to do what? What is this application, or what does this chart pertain to? What are the surfaces involved, and what kinds of pressure and heat are they subjected to. (I.e., a surfboard is very different than an engine main bearing, etc).

 

[Rust]

Aside from lower friction, one very important property is film strength, that is how well does it hold up to pressure. There is a certain amount of pressure on the lugs/receiver when fired.

 

[xdeano]

Aside from lower friction, one very important property is film strength, that is how well does it hold up to pressure. There is a certain amount of pressure on the lugs/receiver when fired.

I agree. I'm just throwing the question out to see if anyone has monkeyed with it in a bolt gun. So the questions that you asked, I'll answer with an I don't know, but I'm willing to find out.
xdeano

 

[xdeano]

There's something missing in that chart. "Watts Expended" to do what? What is this application, or what does this chart pertain to? What are the surfaces involved, and what kinds of pressure and heat are they subjected to. (I.e., a surfboard is very different than an engine main bearing, etc).

Vh20,
I'm not exactly sure what the chart pertains to, but I'm thinking it's either a bike chain or motor cycle chain. I just looked up wax friction on Google is all I did.
Xdeano

 

[supercorndogs]

Vh20,
I'm not exactly sure what the chart pertains to, but I'm thinking it's either a bike chain or motor cycle chain. I just looked up wax friction on Google is all I did.
Xdeano

That would make sense. I have a wax based ceramic impregnated lube for my mountain bike chains. Its really good stuff, It goes on dries up and does not collect dirt. I have used it on the ram of my reloading press also to stop it from squeaking, It lasted about a year and a half before the ram started seeking again. I will have to ask my dad, but I am pretty sure he is using it in his ar-15, bolt lugs, and pistol slides.

The one I use is actually listed on the chart, "Finish Line Ceramic Wax lube."

 

[xdeano]

That would make sense. I have a wax based ceramic impregnated lube for my mountain bike chains. Its really good stuff, It goes on dries up and does not collect dirt. I have used it on the ram of my reloading press also to stop it from squeaking, It lasted about a year and a half before the ram started seeking again. I will have to ask my dad, but I am pretty sure he is using it in his ar-15, bolt lugs, and pistol slides.

The one I use is actually listed on the chart, "Finish Line Ceramic Wax lube."

Thank you supercorndogs! This is the kind of answer I'm looking for. Check with your dad and report back. I'll be making up a batch of this stuff I'm hoping tonight. Then I'll try it and report back.
xdeano

 

[vh20]

Thanks, xdeano. I'm trying to learn something too. I don't have any specific knowledge, but just ask the questions that come to mind. I think, as I and Rust seem to be thinking, that pressure is the key. In a very low-pressure application, the high viscosity of an oil or grease has to be overcome for movement to occur, and this could actually increase the "watts expended" (power) to make that happen. However, turn up the pressure and force between the surfaces, and a wax is likely to be scraped off and the surfaces may gall (the film strength that Rust mentioned). To use one of your examples - run your hand lightly over a freshly waxed car hood and it slides across effortlessly compared to unwaxed. However, bare down with all your weight and try it and you are likely to hear loud squeaks and experience high drag against your skin. Now do the same with a grease - light pressure and your hand doesn't want to move through the thick stuff, but bare down hard and your hand is likely to slide right out from under you (i.e. after you've overcome the resistance attributable to the viscosity).

It certainly is an interesting thing to consider. Thanks for the topic.

 

[Petrov]

I'm sure glad you're an open minded person.
xdeano

It is REALLY easy for wax to make its way down into the FCG, why would any one be comfortable with solids in there?

 

[xdeano]

Thanks, xdeano. I'm trying to learn something too. I don't have any specific knowledge, but just ask the questions that come to mind. I think, as I and Rust seem to be thinking, that pressure is the key. In a very low-pressure application, the high viscosity of an oil or grease has to be overcome for movement to occur, and this could actually increase the "watts expended" (power) to make that happen. However, turn up the pressure and force between the surfaces, and a wax is likely to be scraped off and the surfaces may gall (the film strength that Rust mentioned). To use one of your examples - run your hand lightly over a freshly waxed car hood and it slides across effortlessly compared to unwaxed. However, bare down with all your weight and try it and you are likely to hear loud squeaks and experience high drag against your skin. Now do the same with a grease - light pressure and your hand doesn't want to move through the thick stuff, but bare down hard and your hand is likely to slide right out from under you (i.e. after you've overcome the resistance attributable to the viscosity).

It certainly is an interesting thing to consider. Thanks for the topic.

I understand your wax, unwaxed comparison with skin, but that really doesn't verify the fact of comparable friction. Now if you took that same example but used another piece of painted metal, waxed, places it on a waxed hood with 10lbs of weight on it would have more or less friction then a hood with no wax with that piece of painted metal without wax, with 10lbs of weight.
the obvious conclusion would be the wax on wax will have less frictional force then just paint on paint. This would be more of an Apple's to Apple's comparison.
or if you had a waxed hood, but that piece of painted unwaxed with 10lbs on it would give you less frictional force then the unwaxed on unwaxed. But more in comparison to wax on wax.

Im not tring to be contrary. Just trying to see if wax is a viable lubricant for bolt lugs. I do appreciate your comparative example. Keep them coming.

deano

 

[xdeano]

It is REALLY easy for wax to make its way down into the FCG, why would any one be comfortable with solids in there?

Petrov,
I'm not talking about using this on a semi auto gun, but it probably could be used. I'm looking at a bolt action gun, and specifically the bolt lugs. Most everyone uses grease right now to reduce friction on the lugs. I don't see threads being started because they have a grease problem in their fcg, trigger group. Basically because it doesn't get that far back to effect it, in a bolt gun.

Why do they wax lead 22lr bullets? One is to seal the lead from oxidation and secondly because of friction. The wax they put on 22lr shells would be crazy thick and hard in comparison to the wax I'm thinking of using.

I appreciate the concern with the fcg. It would be a problem.

Xdeano