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Universal Background checks, Democrat style.

2ndamendfan

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Minuteman
Nov 10, 2010
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I fought this at the state level at the Colorado legislature. What they are doing is redefining what a transfer is. Now in Colorado if you want to loan your shooting buddy a rfile for an upcoming hunting trip you must transfer ownership to him, then when he returns he must transfer ownership back to you. FFL background checks both ways.
 
As unhappy I am that the Dems took the House, I also realize that the Republicans love looking like they are the saviors of the American people. Which is why I take some comfort in the fact that we still have the senate and the White House. The Republicans enjoy nothing more than standing up to brag that they squashed a Dem bill because it was unconstitutional. Granted, they can’t seem to do jack crap worthwhile when they have the reins of both chambers of Congress (and the White House), but they sure seem to love giving the Dems gridlock as it gives them talking points an ammunition for re-election. To be fair, until this wacky-radical far-far-left arm of the Democrat party started to gain traction, the Dems were more or less the same way.....toiling with nothing significant usually happening was actually expected. I will still do my part to fight their foolishness when it comes to it, but usually the Republicans gain magical spines when it counts.

You watch, miraculously the Republicans will become champions of virtue and constitutionality when the new Congress takes hold....even though they’ve been inert over the last 2 years. This is why I feel that primary elections are more important than general elections. Once the general election comes around you are stuck with the lesser of two evils (full on nutbag or ineffective blowhard) for the next several years if you didn’t make the right choice in the primaries.
 
They will get together and grant amnesty to the illegals thus nullifying your vote and undermine our country further. Look at what they just did n=in Orange County California. that is all because amnesty, all because Reagan. Your statement below says one thing, you like losing slowly while virtue signalling.

Trump will sell us out for a few more cheap maids at his hotels.

The dems will sell us out because they need voters.

As unhappy I am that the Dems took the House, I also realize that the Republicans love looking like they are the saviors of the American people. Which is why I take some comfort in the fact that we still have the senate and the White House. The Republicans enjoy nothing more than standing up to brag that they squashed a Dem bill because it was unconstitutional. Granted, they can’t seem to do jack crap worthwhile when they have the reins of both chambers of Congress (and the White House), but they sure seem to love giving the Dems gridlock as it gives them talking points an ammunition for re-election. To be fair, until this wacky-radical far-far-left arm of the Democrat party started to gain traction, the Dems were more or less the same way.....toiling with nothing significant usually happening was actually expected. I will still do my part to fight their foolishness when it comes to it, but usually the Republicans gain magical spines when it counts.

You watch, miraculously the Republicans will become champions of virtue and constitutionality when the new Congress takes hold....even though they’ve been inert over the last 2 years. This is why I feel that primary elections are more important than general elections. Once the general election comes around you are stuck with the lesser of two evils (full on nutbag or ineffective blowhard) for the next several years if you didn’t make the right choice in the primaries.
 
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Oh and if you loan your friends or family member a gun without doing a background check transfer and there is a crime or accident, you are liable. There is a 72 hour catchall and you can gift immediate family members but not loan. Trust were covered too. Everyone has to have a background check who is in the trust when firearms are transfered. Not sure if there is the same loophole about adding folks after.
 
Will have to pass back ground check just to transfer inside the house hold if they have their way. I am telling you, the Republicans fucked us over the last two years by not shoring up shit. Dems are going to throw everything they have at us, hoping anything and everything sticks.
https://thehill.com/homenews/house/...for-background-checks-on-all-gun-purchases-or

https://www.ammoland.com/2018/12/democrats-plan-new-universal-background-check-bill/#axzz5Z953B4R0

If your counting on politicians to protect your second amendment , save them the bullshit and lies and just turn your guns over to the government. If the populist of gun owning Americans are afraid to use their 2nd amendment rights against these politicians then put another shrimp on the barbie.......
 
So you’re saying that you’re OK with having to have a license to loan a gun to a friend or family member?

It is what it is. At the very least, it's some sort of slim assurance to the state that the person taking temporary possession of the weapon has gone through a background check. However, the state doesn't bar immediate and direct permanent conveyance of firearms from spouse to spouse, or parent/grandparent to child/grandchild, notwithstanding prohibited status.

The status quo, Max, is not as I would have it. But I'm also not entirely in favor of rational anarchy, either. I'd like to see some specific rollbacks in scope and depth of control, but not to the point where some loose cannon doofus gets to strut around heeled, 2A or no 2A. The fact of the matter is that some people just don't pack the fuckin' gear to be trusted with a firearm, concealed or not. And that doesn't make me a commie.
 
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This is what I mean about gun owners. They will stick there heads in the sand while these laws are passed not realizing the vast reaching implications of these laws.

This law requires that you have a piece of paper proving the transfer. Get it? “paper trail”.

We are also seeing these laws more and more “normalized”. “Oh i dont have a problem with it” .

These laws are already being enforced in States like California. You must provide a paper trail for your gun.

Yea yelling “fuck them all” and “unconstitutional” feels good but every day these laws are gaining ground and being normalized and enforced across this country at this very moment.

 
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No, it just makes you an idiot to think you can pass a law so that people you don’t think should be armed won’t be. All you will do is prevent the law abiding from having them, and the bad actors won’t pay it any attention, will still get firearms, and will still shoot people with them, only now citizens won’t be able to fight back.

You cannot police proactively, before a crime is committed, and pretending this will work IS utopian nonsense. There are too many illegal laws now. We need much less, not more.
 
It is what it is. At the very least, it's some sort of slim assurance to the state that the person taking temporary possession of the weapon has gone through a background check. However, the state doesn't bar immediate and direct permanent conveyance of firearms from spouse to spouse, or parent/grandparent to child/grandchild, notwithstanding prohibited status.

The status quo, Max, is not as I would have it. But I'm also not entirely in favor of rational anarchy, either. I'd like to see some specific rollbacks in scope and depth of control, but not to the point where some loose cannon doofus gets to strut around heeled, 2A or no 2A. The fact of the matter is that some people just don't pack the fuckin' gear to be trusted with a firearm, concealed or not. And that doesn't make me a commie.

I certainly do not think you a commie. Until right now I would have guessed you more right of me on 2A.No, I think just the leftist have been successful in conditioning you. This has been normalised in your State which is part of the lefist long game. Its just “reasonble gun control”......
 
It requires an LTCF here. I don't have a problem with it myself, although I know someone is going to scream in my ear shortly about that.
You're right. Your position is inconsistent with the Second Amendment no matter how you try to spin that bullshit in the name of safety.

Half the guns I have were bought legally from the back of someone's car in a parking lot somewhere.
 
I certainly do not think you a commie. Until right now I would have guessed you more right of me on 2A.No, I think just the leftist have been successful in conditioning you. This has been normalised in your State which is part of the lefist long game. Its just “reasonble gun control”......

Any more gun control? What we have on average, nationally, is unreasonable, if you average in the disaster zones where the Left has left 2A half-neutered. The PTB in DC are failing to take heed of the lessening complacency on the part of the people at their overreach and abandonment of legislative duties in creating organizations like BATFE to make arbitrary, binding, extra-Constitutional decisions that keep on reducing the scope of BOR provisions and recognitions that in design were meant to be absolute. My powder, Max, is just as dry as yours.
 
One needs to think about it. Who and what benefits from these laws tracking firearms.

  • Will this stop criminals from getting guns?
  • Will this slow or stop criminal behavior involving guns?
  • Will this make us safer?
  • Does this make us “free-er”?
One need only look to California to answer these questions.

What about the burden to law abiding gun owners? Imagine if you will, that you live in very rural Colorado. You are poor but you own a gun. Your equally poor buddy wants to borrow your gun to hunt deer with his uncle in Wyoming for a week. The closest ffl that will do private BC transfers is 100 miles away. Ffls are not required to. So you drive 100 miles each way and pay $25 to transfer the gun to him , then when he comes back the same things.

So that is 400 miles of travel and 50 cash. Meanwhile you just transfered ownership of that firearm to your friend until he transfers it back.

Can we get real here. These laws do NOTHING about crime or safety and burden the law abiding poor gun owners. Poor gun owners have always been a target of leftist elite in their war of attrition just like mentally ill etc.
 
It is what it is. At the very least, it's some sort of slim assurance to the state that the person taking temporary possession of the weapon has gone through a background check. However, the state doesn't bar immediate and direct permanent conveyance of firearms from spouse to spouse, or parent/grandparent to child/grandchild, notwithstanding prohibited status.

The status quo, Max, is not as I would have it. But I'm also not entirely in favor of rational anarchy, either. I'd like to see some specific rollbacks in scope and depth of control, but not to the point where some loose cannon doofus gets to strut around heeled, 2A or no 2A. The fact of the matter is that some people just don't pack the fuckin' gear to be trusted with a firearm, concealed or not. And that doesn't make me a commie.

They have gotten you with the giving up your freedom and liberty for the Illusion of security.
The reason they want everything to go through a background check is NOT because they care one bit about criminals having guns, it is because they want to be able to track and have records of which law abiding citizens own which guns so they can come take them when they want.
Just as they have Exactly done serveral times in CA and NY and other states when they changed laws or rulings.... we show you bought xxxxx and since thanks to our laws you can't sell it or give it away without a paper trail... hand it over now or we'll take you to jail.

The Criminals will never have a problem getting all the guns they want. That is a plain an simple FACT that is shown all over the world.

These laws are only there to put the noose around the law abiding gun owner's necks so they know who to string up first.
It's pretty hard to hit everybody's doors at once with the storm troopers, but much easier if they know exactly who's door to go kick down.
And if you think that they already don't use the paperwork and background checks to compiles lists you would be simply one with your head stuck in the sand. Every background check is going into a database, every time they "audit" a FFL, they are saving as much information as they can get away with.

The criminals having guns is not really much of an issue if the citizenry is armed as they should be. It's only a problem when the citizens are disarmed by the government and the criminals have all the guns. But stupid "good" people will then be happy to have yet more rules and regulations put on them for "their own safety".

Of course they love to play the citizens against each other .... "You are one of the good guys, so you won't mind a few more regulations... it's to keep those other rabble you don't like from causing trouble because they are not as (trustworthy, intelligent, civil, Racial etc.) as you."

If all the citizens walked around well armed as they should be, it wouldn't matter if a criminal had a gun, the moment they pulled it out and did something they would have a whole bunch of guns shooting back at them. That's the way it should be.
 
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Innocent until proven guilty...
This law says guilty until you provide paperwork.
Damned depots would be proud of this work and are.
Wonder why they aren't requiring paperwork for the lending of a hammer?
1544375633845.png


R
 
They have gotten you with the giving up your freedom and liberty for the Illusion of security.
The reason they want everything to go through a background check is NOT because they care one bit about criminals having guns, it is because they want to be able to track and have records of which law abiding citizens own which guns so they can come take them when they want.
Just as they have Exactly done serveral times in CA and NY and other states when they changed laws or rulings.... we show you bought xxxxx and since thanks to our laws you can't sell it or give it away without a paper trail... hand it over now or we'll take you to jail.

The Criminals will never have a problem getting all the guns they want. That is a plain an simple FACT that is shown all over the world.

These laws are only there to put the noose around the law abiding gun owner's necks so they know who to string up first.
It's pretty hard to hit everybody's doors at once with the storm troopers, but much easier if they know exactly who's door to go kick down.
And if you think that they already don't use the paperwork and background checks to compiles lists you would be simply one with your head stuck in the sand. Every background check is going into a database, every time they "audit" a FFL, they are saving as much information as they can get away with.

The criminals having guns is not really much of an issue if the citizenry is armed as they should be. It's only a problem when the citizens are disarmed by the government and the criminals have all the guns. But stupid "good" people will then be happy to have yet more rules and regulations put on them for "their own safety".

Of course they love to play the citizens against each other .... "You are one of the good guys, so you won't mind a few more regulations... it's to keep those other rabble you don't like from causing trouble because they are not as (trustworthy, intelligent, civil, Racial etc.) as you."

If all the citizens walked around well armed as they should be, it wouldn't matter if a criminal had a gun, the moment they pulled it out and did something they would have a whole bunch of guns shooting back at them. That's the way it should be.

The one thing that will stop your worries dead in their tracks is if they fully understand exactly what a fulminating response further encroachment might engender. Door-to-door, they'd soon get tired of it, even if it took a few spectacular events to convince them.
 
My powder, Max, is just as dry as yours.
My powder is not dry. It is getting pissed on at every turn by leftist anti-2Aers and fellow gun owners who think “reasonable gun control” actually means what the words say......

When fellow gun owners fall for this crap, it means the leftists are danger close and winning. I left Colorado over this nonsense.

I’m not “yelling in your ear” and I mean no disrespect to you personally. I am however a bit shocked and disappointed. I feel like this indoctrination of gun owners is worst than I had thought.....

 
The one thing that will stop your worries dead in their tracks is if they fully understand exactly what a fulminating response further encroachment might engender. Door-to-door, they'd soon get tired of it, even if it took a few spectacular events to convince them.
You can spin it every way you want. You're still wrong.
 
You can spin it every way you want. You're still wrong.

Someone is always wrong on the Internet. But I'll be right with God if it comes down to it.

Not to cherry-pick, but there's a slice of Romans 13 that fits the bill:

But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil.
 
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Bottom line, VeerG is in a precarious position surrounded by a whole apparatus that will kill him if they thought he wouldn't kill them back, he still has a place to run to, the south. The people in the south are too comfortable in their perceived freedoms and should realize there is nowhere left to gdo and you are being set up to be taken down by your own politicians..

End of the day you might not like people from Philly, I dont, but not everyone of them is an enemy, almost everyone of them but not all as yet.
 
The one thing that will stop your worries dead in their tracks is if they fully understand exactly what a fulminating response further encroachment might engender. Door-to-door, they'd soon get tired of it, even if it took a few spectacular events to convince them.

Tell that to the folks in CA that registered their "Assault Rifles" according to the law after moving into the state and then several years later were told, oh we changed our mind, turn that in now or we send you to jail.

Or those more recently in NY when they changed the rules and said... we see you have that tube fed 50 year old .22 rifle on our records.... well it holds more than 5 rounds so turn it in or off to jail with you.

When they sent out of state Jack Booted Thugs and National Guard to violently strip firearms at machinegun point from desperate weak citizens in New Orleans trying to survive a major natural disaster and leave them defenseless to all criminals, where was the outrage? Where was anybody helping them fight back? Where was the National Guard refusing to follow orders that violate the constitution? The "LE" thugs they hired from out of state had a great time boasting about how much they liked doing it...

Where was the outrage? Where was everybody standing together to resist? Where was "law enforcement" refusing to enforce unconstitutional laws? Crickets....

Too many people underestimate how extremely effective slow boiling the frog, divide and conquer and cutting animals out of the herd one at a time have been and continue to be.

Too many also underestimate the intelligence, planning and patience of those that are behind the Communists they see. They plan to win and they plan to make sure that by the time they pull off their final play, they don't have to worry about significant effective resistance. They may be happy to let you keep your guns provided you follow all their rules, but they'll get them when you die (like the new laws in CA), leaving your Children unarmed and then your Grandkids they plan to have as fully indoctrinated party stooges.
 
Someone is always wrong on the Internet. But I'll be right with God if it comes down to it.

Not to cherry-pick, but there's a slice of Romans 13 that fits the bill:
Your excuse is that widespread confiscation will be met with force. The problem with your reasoning is that confiscations will likely never be widespread and sudden. People have had firearms confiscated already, I guess fuck them because they're not you.

Got it. Makes all the sense now.
 
Something to ponder:
As Illinois is the only state that has a FOID. (Firearms Owners Identification)
FFL's are required to work through the state police instead of NICS.
The true reason for this is to create a data base of who and what.
As you can see the effects of these and this program has had on Chicago.
Punishing law abiding citizens instead of criminals is ineffective.
That would include the ridiculous jumping of hoops under the guise of "safety"...

R
 
Your excuse is that widespread confiscation will be met with force. The problem with your reasoning is that confiscations will likely never be widespread and sudden. People have had firearms confiscated already, I guess fuck them because they're not you.

Got it. Makes all the sense now.

Revenge is a dish best served cold.
 
Bottom line, VeerG is in a precarious position surrounded by a whole apparatus that will kill him if they thought he wouldn't kill them back, he still has a place to run to, the south. The people in the south are too comfortable in their perceived freedoms and should realize there is nowhere left to gdo and you are being set up to be taken down by your own politicians..

End of the day you might not like people from Philly, I dont, but not everyone of them is an enemy, almost everyone of them but not all as yet.

The Second Amendment is embodied within our state Constitution, in Article I, Declaration of Rights, § 21:

article_21_pa_state_constitution.png


I'm not running south. This is my home, and this is the contract by which my right to act as a constituent part of the effective balance is recognized and affirmed. Notwithstanding stupidity on my part, or treachery on theirs, I consider it an eternally binding contract.

Besides, I've had what were called cheesesteaks elsewhere, and they were pretty much fucking gross, each and every one.
 
Just not my kind of folks.


Oh ok so your not impacted so it doesnt matter.....

My best friend and hunting buddy and I both have plenty of guns. He is a sgt LEO in Colorado and covered under these laws. From time to time he borrows a gun that I have, or visa versa.

Like I said he is my best friend and brother I chose. He is definitely “my kind of folks”. Like I also stated earlier, this law covers family members. You cannot loan your son or daughter a gun under this law .

Thinking these laws don’t impact you is a just unrealistic. The long term goal here is to make every gun traceable. Any gun that is not traceable will become illegal.

Colorado Senator Brophy, whom I became friends with and who worked closely with Magpul in fighting these laws, saw the implications. In debates he theorized that it could get so bad that gun owners would have to demand BG checks simply to legitimize their guns and not have them erroneously conficacted at say, a traffic stop.

Now some of this sounds like conspiracy theory thinking but that is what folks said about having to do BG checks for ammo purchases, which California is now implementing.

Now I am not trying to demonize you guys here. Just asking you to see the point of view of a guy who actually spent 16 hours days in the trenches at the legislature fighting these laws. Most folks never read these bills and never really understandhow broad they are.

Imagine if you wanted to loan your buddy or family member a car and you had to do this. Now, in fact a car is not protected Constitutionally, so let’s go with your bible......


 
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I'm not running south. This is my home, .

I admire this. I think gun owners running from States with gun control is wrong headed. Ive done it. We are ceding ground to the leftists. It’s like have a hole in your boat and thinking if you move to the other side you won’t sink. We need to fight, fight, fight........

That said, you do seem a little Stockholmey......?
 
I admire this. I think gun owners running from States with gun control is wrong headed. Ive done it. We are ceding ground to the leftists. It’s like have a hole in your boat and thinking if you move to the other side you won’t sink. We need to fight, fight, fight........

That said, you do seem a little Stockholmey......?

Just because I have a Volvo in my stable? Seriously, everything up to an extent is relative, and then it ain't. This isn't the PRNJ ... yet. All bets are off when that day comes, because, well, QED in post #44.
 
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